|
Or just leave it so she doesn’t bleed out
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 21:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 05:30 |
|
|
I've never been clear on why it's a thing in movies that if you get shot (usually with a gun, but etc), the absolute highest priority of all possible things is to get the bullet out. As though every millisecond it's in your body it's causing ungodly pain orders of magnitude higher than just "having a bullet wound", and while having a hole through you is going to slow you down for sure, having a bullet in you means IMMINENT death unless you get it out NOW NOW NOW. Immediate high-intensity music and everyone crowds around screaming until the doctor pulls it out and holds it up and everyone breathes out in relief. I recognize it as just  a Movie Thing™ now but I spent decades thinking that this was how the world worked. Get an arrow in you and the world comes screeching to a halt until you get it out, never mind if you could probably walk or hobble around until you got some medical attention after the bad guy gets got
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:I've never been clear on why it's a thing in movies that if you get shot (usually with a gun, but etc), the absolute highest priority of all possible things is to get the bullet out. As though every millisecond it's in your body it's causing ungodly pain orders of magnitude higher than just "having a bullet wound", and while having a hole through you is going to slow you down for sure, having a bullet in you means IMMINENT death unless you get it out NOW NOW NOW. Immediate high-intensity music and everyone crowds around screaming until the doctor pulls it out and holds it up and everyone breathes out in relief. I think with arrows in particular it's because trying to move around with a bit sticking out of and catching on your clothing/stuff is much worse than just having a hole in you. So if you still have to go do something because of Heroic and Plot Reasons, you gotta get it out of you. Of course normally you'd cut the fletching off first and then bandage the wound but ya know. Edit: Oh also if it's through your leg entirely you also have another pointy bit sticking out the other side for you to hit and tear the wound open some more.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 22:03
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:I don't think Elayne, Nyneave, and Perrin could have gotten past those soldiers without Mat clearing the way. KilGrey posted:Those soldiers weren’t ‘hanging out on the roof’. What do you think they were doing up there? They had probably the most important job a soldier could have in that battle if you ask Ishy. I doubt he would have put shlubs on that assignment. So you have a woman with an arrow through her knee being half carried by another who is so terrified she can’t channel. Sure, Mat has a diy dagger staff and Perrin maybe some wolf rage but those 4 aren’t taking out a large group of soldiers on their own. While carrying Elayne and Nyneave. Comrade Blyatlov posted:I mean.... the cast were badly outnumbered and barely holding their own. It was pretty clear they were going to get crushed sooner or later. I think I just don't have a clear picture of the overall battle. My impression was that Rand had already cleared out the front entrance to the tower and the battle was going fine in the streets, they just sent Mat ahead and he stumbled rear end first into a bunch of guards on a side route to the tower because he was scrambling around on his own. That said I was a lil baked when I watched it, and it does make sense that the intention was that the heroes were a huge turning point in the battle, so I think y'all probably right
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 22:47
|
|
|
Didn't Liandrin say something to Nynaeve about finding a reason to be Aes Sedai? I wonder if this is how they are setting up her motivation to actually learn to channel in a more obvious way as the TV show can't do 'inner monologue' without descending into 1984 Dune.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 22:50
|
|
|
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 22:50
|
|
|
CuriousSymptoms posted:Didn't Liandrin say something to Nynaeve about finding a reason to be Aes Sedai? I wonder if this is how they are setting up her motivation to actually learn to channel in a more obvious way as the TV show can't do 'inner monologue' without descending into 1984 Dune. I think that was the Warders. "Why are you here? Answer that question and you'll be able to proceed" Liandrin was just saying that there is more than one way to get power.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
Colonel Cool posted:I was laughing so hard at Nynaeve just loving shoving the whole rear end fletching through Elayne's leg. Snap the arrow in half and then push it through, Jesus Christ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mtDbC202dI You don’t want to do that while the thing is sticking in your leg. Cutting off the fletchings before shoving it through would probably be good though. Or pulling it out. I don’t think they would be using barbed crossbow bolts when they were fighting against armored dudes. Being able to push it through does mean that the bolt hit only flesh and was probably already sticking through the other side. Obviously this is all overthinking it and that whole thing made sense in the typical movie or tv show interpretation of how arrows/crossbow bolts work on screen. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Oct 9, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 22:59
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:I think that was the Warders. "Why are you here? Answer that question and you'll be able to proceed" Ah yes, you are right, I knew it was something along those lines.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2023 23:34
|
|
|
Chomposaur posted:I think I just don't have a clear picture of the overall battle. My impression was that Rand had already cleared out the front entrance to the tower Those soldiers are guarding the entrance so no one can go up and interrupt Ishy doing his thing with Rand. The people Rand killed were Turak and his soldiers running out to join the fray in the streets or help Turak escape/go for coffee/whatever he was off to go do. Mat, Perrin and co had to get through those soldiers to get up to help Rand. Mat wasn’t just blundering about and ran into them, he was on a direct path to the tower and found them guarding the entrance. He blew the horn there because they couldn’t run anywhere else, that door being guarded was where the group had to go.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
KilGrey posted:Those soldiers weren’t ‘hanging out on the roof’. What do you think they were doing up there? They had probably the most important job a soldier could have in that battle if you ask Ishy. I doubt he would have put shlubs on that assignment. There's alot in this, but where are you getting that Ishamael was in charge of Seanchan soldiers? He kept on going back to Suroth. Though his relationship with the Seanchan is super fuzzy and unspecified. Chomposaur posted:I think I just don't have a clear picture of the overall battle. My impression was that Rand had already cleared out the front entrance to the tower and the battle was going fine in the streets, they just sent Mat ahead and he stumbled rear end first into a bunch of guards on a side route to the tower because he was scrambling around on his own. There wasn't the connective tissue between the characters actions that was so well done in the end of TGH. So everyone was separated until zipping into place at the tower, without the several layers of battle specified in the book. Jordan was the best in laying out a battle cleanly and understandably. I suppose the next opportunity the show has to attempt that is.....taking the Stone? Some cool stuff there, with several plotlines organically colliding and different mini-climaxes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 01:04
|
|
|
DTurtle posted:You aren’t going to snap that crossbow bolt in half. You also arent going to easily cut it in half. Even sawing is going to take a bit and would move the bolt around and cause more damage. Oh yeah, of course, my bad. I was sort of mentally adding in first change the big crossbow bolt to an arrow and then snap it off if you want to do that scene. Even if that's not totally realistic that's fine to me, I don't need total realism from my fantasy show. I just want it not to be on its face absurd, like shoving the fletching through her leg was.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 01:54
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:There's alot in this, but where are you getting that Ishamael was in charge of Seanchan soldiers? He kept on going back to Suroth. Though his relationship with the Seanchan is super fuzzy and unspecified. He was in charge of them as much as he wanted to be which might be part of the problem. Ishy isn't a details guy. The damane can't see him using the power and he can use compulsion or go true power if the rules changed enough. He probably did decide to have some input because Egwene is on the tower and not on the boat with Suroth. Technically Suroth gave Egwene to Turak but that's worth the paper its printed on when Suroth abandons the defense of Falme to shield Rand from the ocean. I got the feeling Suroth would just bring her along if Ishy didn't have such a flair for the dramatic
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 02:38
|
|
|
meh
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
Colonel Cool posted:Even if that's not totally realistic that's fine to me, I don't need total realism from my fantasy show. I just want it not to be on its face absurd, like shoving the fletching through her leg was. I think that's what I've been trying to convey in my frustration with this show. They have greatness within their grasp but then they just make such jarring decisions like shoving fletchings through a leg, especially by someone who's supposed to be a competent healer. It's up there with Moraine having a tracking tell and Algemar yelling fire instead of loose to his archers in a world that doesn't have fire arms (yet). The production design is much better in S2, the acting ranges from tolerable to very good. But the writing leaves much to be desired. They tell things that should be shown, like Moiraine being politically savvy with no evidence to back it up on screen. And they show things they should be telling like whatever internal conflict Nyneave was having while staring at the bolt in Elayne's leg. And yes, I don't need her to turn to the camera and explain in detail what she's feeling since I know some people have no sense of subtlety. But she and Elayne had plenty of time in that upstairs room, they could have had a discussion about their fears or what they thought they were up against. It all goes back to world and character building stuff. Moments, especially ones taken from the books, don't pay off like they should if we don't get the build up that's supposed to lead up to it. Tldr S2 was much better, but writing is still the weak link.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 03:50
|
|
|
I think you should try to avoid getting hung up on details like that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 04:39
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:I think you should try to avoid getting hung up on details like that. I think those are exactly the right details to get hung up on. The show is not trying to be beat-for-beat faithful to the books, but it is reasonable to expect that the stuff they do show is well-written. This means setting up story elements so that they land emotionally when shown on screen; it means spending apparently limited screen time wisely so that you’re not wasting time on plot beats that don’t serve a purpose; and it means finding the right amount of characters’ internal state to show/tell/hide when those characters are on-screen. The show’s writing has been inconsistent on those fronts, for all that there was a big step up between seasons 1 and 2.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 04:52
|
|
|
Yes, her not stripping the fletchings off is a miss. But it seems weird to say the show is terribly inconsistent with that example because that's one minor knowledge point thing about a character that they've nailed start to finish.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 04:55
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Yes, her not stripping the fletchings off is a miss. It's more than a miss. Nynaeve's whole thing is being a healer. It was literally her job. Yet she doesn't even try to pull the fletchings off or even properly bind the now gaping wound. Also, Elayne can channel. She could easily have cut the bolt in half with the power before Nynaeve pushed it through. They badly fumbled the capstone to Nynaeve's season arc. It's my only real complaint with the episode.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 05:54
|
|
|
This is a show that has fades not leaving foot or hoof prints, a dice cup in the colors of Andor in an Andoran inn, and Rand wearing a coat with a rising sun embroidered on it when Aviendha sees him and says he's the Car'a'Carn. There's plenty of details they clearly paid attention to. It's just a goof. It's not some deeper meaning. Edit: The town where Perrin got captured by the seanchan has a throw over water wheel spinning while dipped into the water of something that looks like a lake. That wheel being wrong has no deeper meaning either. Edit mkII: Meme unrelated 
CainFortea fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Oct 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 06:12
|
|
|
That the show gets details like the cups in Andor having Andoran colors, but fails on things like “she has a tell” or “healer makes second hole in leg of injured woman but does not bother to stop the bleeding” are signs of the inconsistent writing I mentioned earlier. The writers care, and I am absolutely not accusing them of not wanting to do well. Just that they don’t have the quality control I would hope for. It goes on the pile with decisions like “we want to show Nynaeve fail repeatedly across multiple episodes to drive home her personal struggle, so we don’t have time to set up Ingtar’s face turn to drive home a series-spanning theme that nobody is so far gone to the Dark that they can’t come back to the Light”.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 06:31
|
|
|
Dingleberry2 posted:Algemar yelling fire instead of loose to his archers in a world that doesn't have fire arms (yet). Rafe Judkins must answer for his crimes
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 06:41
|
|
|
Grundulum posted:That the show gets details like the cups in Andor having Andoran colors, but fails on things like “she has a tell” or “healer makes second hole in leg of injured woman but does not bother to stop the bleeding” are signs of the inconsistent writing I mentioned earlier. The writers care, and I am absolutely not accusing them of not wanting to do well. Just that they don’t have the quality control I would hope for. It goes on the pile with decisions like “we want to show Nynaeve fail repeatedly across multiple episodes to drive home her personal struggle, so we don’t have time to set up Ingtar’s face turn to drive home a series-spanning theme that nobody is so far gone to the Dark that they can’t come back to the Light”. I find it interesting that people's assumptions can so easily be swayed by their first reactions to a thing. Take shroedinger's second bolt hole. Since we never see the inside of her leg, we have no idea if it pokes all the way through. TV show logic says you pull arrows all the way through when there is a bit of arrowhead poking out the other side. But we don't see it. So people who aren't particularly bothered by the flub just assume that the arrowhead comes out the other side. Those who are particularly bothered by it don't, even though the tv show logic suggests otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 07:17
|
|
|
The Old Tongue usage of "fire" in the context of Shock Lances was retained into modern languages, but nobody remembers why the word for "flame" is relevant to propelling projectiles, be they arrow, bolt or stone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 07:19
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:I find it interesting that people's assumptions can so easily be swayed by their first reactions to a thing. I'm not bothered by that. I assumed it had already pierced through. My concern is that Nynaeve, the healer, the Wisdom, didn't even try to bind the wound or remove the fletchings. A wound that would be bleeding very badly without the bolt to plug it up, and with the fletchings tearing it up further. Nynaeve would never. My non-reader wife who thoroughly enjoys the show asked me if she was that bad at her job in the books.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 08:20
|
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:I think you should try to avoid getting hung up on details like that. Yes, I'm sure that's what the production team told the writers and the writers told the director and the director told the actors and that's how you get mediocrity instead of prestige television. The books are great, I would love for the show to be great because I love me some good TV. But it's not there yet. I hope they get there. If everyone else enjoys it, more power to them, but not everyone enjoys mindless TV.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 08:28
|
|
|
There's just no way even the best producers, writers and actors in human television history could do the long, complex storylines of the books justice in 8 episodes even if you had a time machine to go get them and tell them to get it done with that as it's sole restriction. I believe you could get pretty close if you doubled the episodes per season though I would prefer 20 eps at least. Then you could avoid a lot of the rewriting they did which IMO they did to condense everything into these absurdly short seasons and which is the main problem here. You would still have to cut a lot of fat, but I think it would be a dramatically different show then. I really hate the modern short season format, but it feels like a product of our time. Like we're all damaged by smartphones and constant instant gratification doing a number on our brains that doing a long(er) form adaptation would fail and get panned as slow and boring. People would get bored and tune out. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Oct 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 09:21
|
|
|
I always thought Mat and Rand trudging towards Caemlyn would make a fantastic episode or short film.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 09:29
|
|
|
Watched the finale. I like the bit where Matt shouted in the Old Tongue. The shooting of the Moiraine & Lan re-bonding scene on the beach was lovely and there were some nice other shots (but interspersed with some broken-rear end editing and very crummy shooting, oddly). Also Moghedien. The rest was a mess for the various reasons people have pointed out. Things looked goofy as hell (the Heroes, the fire dragon) and/or were completely undermined by the lack of competent (or in some cases, any) set-up. It's funny, they actually kind of had things held together pretty well earlier on in this season. But they seem to be largely incapable of building narrative arcs that reach any kind of satisfying conclusion; or maybe it's just the writing of the actual conclusions themselves that tends to be so ham-fisted. The defining moment of the season: 'You used to say I made the best sandwiches'. (Or perhaps: 'Now this is where my eidetic memory comes in handy...') All that being said, I am glad they did Lanfear pretty well, largely due to the actress who was great. I hope they do some more fearsome/terrifying Power stuff with the forsaken next season, instead of the small-scale stuff we've gotten from the forsaken so far. His Divine Shadow posted:There's just no way even the best producers, writers and actors in human television history could do the long, complex storylines of the books justice in 8 episodes even if you had a time machine to go get them and tell them to get it done with that as it's sole restriction.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 10:29
|
|
|
I just don't believe that is possible with WoT. But I do believe you would never get a 20 ep season too, so it will never happen. e: Also I don't understand where all the budget is going. I would actually be fine with a lower budget show if I got more eps, but I don't understand where all the money went here. e2: I might actually be mixing it up with rings of power now. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Oct 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 10:31
|
|
|
I think the thing that I really don't get is, why don't they use more actual lines of dialogue from the books. There is a lot of really decent dialogue in there. I stumbled across this example: SHOW: Rand: What if I'm tired of being a spoke in the Wheel? Siuan: You're not a spoke. You're the water which turns the wheel or dashes it to pieces BOOK: Rand: I will not be used by you Siuan: An anchor is not demeaned by being used to hold a boat BOOK: Rand: I will not be used. I am not a tool you can throw on the midden heap when it's worn out. Moiraine: A tool made for a purpose is not demeaned by being used for that purpose, but a man who believes the Father of Lies demeans himself. Those responses from Siuan and Moiraine are good lines. Obviously they have slightly different meanings to the line in the show but still. Siuan's line from the show doesn't even really mean anything so far as I can tell, the water that turns the wheel? It's just strange to me that they would take written source material that the showrunners keep saying they love (and clearly this is kind of a long term dream project for Judkins, I don't think anyone disputes that) and then take so little of the writing from it. Maybe they just made a blanket decision early on to make the show's dialogue more modern-sounding and that has necessitated them discarding book dialogue because a lot of it is slightly more archaic in the form of speech?
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 10:44
|
|
|
El Grillo posted:I think the thing that I really don't get is, why don't they use more actual lines of dialogue from the books. There is a lot of really decent dialogue in there. I stumbled across this example: Her line especially makes no sense in the context of what the Wheel is. It's not a water wheel, it's a spinning wheel creating the Pattern.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 10:48
|
|
|
the wheel line makes me kind of insane because it makes no sense whatsoever. the spokes in the wheel are the ages, it's a spinning wheel as the (sorely missed) full opening makes abundantly clear, rand is a thread in a pattern, why is that line written that way and then why did they use it all over the promo material. is it just because siuan=fish=water? man it sucks.
Valentin fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Oct 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 11:01
|
|
|
Devorum posted:Her line especially makes no sense in the context of what the Wheel is. It's not a water wheel, it's a spinning wheel creating the Pattern.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 11:11
|
|
|
Also it's usually said that the One Power is what drives the (spinning) wheelEl Grillo posted:
10 episodes and each episode is slightly longer. Let's be honest, the WoT books have a lot of fluff in them. Once you take out the descriptions of clothes and embroidery, the historical background of cities and the like, and the paragraphs of anguished mental gymnastics that occur in the viewpoint character between two spoken sentences it should be doable. DarkHorse fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Oct 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 13:02
|
|
|
I think they reason Nynaeve didnt cut the arrow off and do whatever proper medical procedures are usually required for removing an arrow, is because the writers wanted to show it as a negative alternative to her being able to use the power. If she was able to easily slip the arrow easily out the conflict with her not being able to channel would be less pronounced and viewers might even think her arc is that she dosnt need channeling and she can do old fashioned healing. It didnt bother me, but I also havent watched a lot of fantasy/ historical fiction so proper arrow care is not something I had previous knowledge about.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 13:16
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:I just don't believe that is possible with WoT. But I do believe you would never get a 20 ep season too, so it will never happen. Yea, Rings of Power has significantly more budget. But also the costuming alone has to be nuts on this show since so many of the cultures being depicted are either some mish mash, or just bug gently caress crazy.  
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 14:46
|
|
|
Future Me Hates Me posted:I think they reason Nynaeve didnt cut the arrow off and do whatever proper medical procedures are usually required for removing an arrow, is because the writers wanted to show it as a negative alternative to her being able to use the power. There still a hole in the leg even if Nynaeve took the fletchings off and bound the wound like a sensible person, so this rationale really makes little sense. No level of mundane wound care is going to match Healing. Again, all the non-readers I know that watch the show in my friend group think Nynaeve is just bad at her old job and borderline useless. They flubbed her real bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 14:57
|
|
|
Devorum posted:There still a hole in the leg even if Nynaeve took the fletchings off and bound the wound like a sensible person, so this rationale really makes little sense. No level of mundane wound care is going to match Healing. None of the non-readers in my friend group who watch the show even mentioned the scene. I don't see it as an issue, personally.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 15:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 05:30 |
|
|
https://x.com/esquire/status/1711414678495154337?s=20quote:Season Three will focus on the Foresaken, according to showrunner Rafe Judkins, but fans shouldn't expect any new episodes until early 2025. God dammit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2023 15:07
|
|