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UnderFreddy posted:what were the innovative parts I thought the “dark side of hero society” bits with the shadow government just murking people that showed cracks in their society was pretty interesting, but that all seems to have gone away very quickly
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Oct 12, 2023 19:05
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MhA really stopped clicking for me very suddenly. I really loved how it started and then it felt like it just kind of meandered after Deku Vs Bakugo round 2, and had weird tone issues here and there. Jjk is not perfect but it’s a better than average shonen story. The Shibuya incident was exceptional, and nothing since has quite reached that peak. Everything else suffered from adding TOO much to the story. It’s has felt like Gege tried to spice up the story with some fresh ideas, didn’t end up loving those ideas, and has since does an OK job getting back on track. To me it’s been a better story since Sukuna swapped into Megumi, but still never come close to the heights of Shibuya.
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Oct 12, 2023 19:45
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Bread Set Jettison posted:MhA really stopped clicking for me very suddenly. I really loved how it started and then it felt like it just kind of meandered after Deku Vs Bakugo round 2, and had weird tone issues here and there. Yeah I agree with this. Culling Game still has some extremely high highs like Hakari vs Kashimo but I've been way more interested in the narrative since Sukuna jumped bodies as that was a fantastic payoff for something set up 200 chapters ago. Moving away from the power trio of Yuji Nobara and Megumi was always a mistake though as the three had great chemistry together while all being compelling and fun to follow.
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Oct 12, 2023 20:16
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You can pry my “Nobara isn’t dead” cope from my cold dead hands
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Oct 12, 2023 20:28
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Nobara will only die when the series can make me care about someone introduced after her.
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Oct 12, 2023 20:31
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I would have been fine with Nobara’s situation if they would just let her be dead but with repeated flat refusals to commit to her being dead I have no choice but to cope.
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Oct 12, 2023 20:32
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I would say the actual interesting thing MHA did was briefly allow the protagonist's designated evil foil to straight up be the focus of the manga for a while, putting him and his crew in a more traditional underdog situation and turning them into the protagonists for a sizable chunk of chapters. this sympathetic framing continued pretty much through sad man's parade but has dropped off sharply in some respects. at the time, i think a not-uncommon feeling was that the arc was intended to demonstrate that the villains had their own heroic qualities and that they had been consistently marginalized by an unjust society, possibly hinting towards a finale for the comic that involved confronting the deep-rooted injustices in the comic's vision of superhero japan. personally, i'm unsure if the truth is that horikoshi gave up on an interesting framing due to poor reception. he has definitely altered the timing and execution of some subplots, but imo it seems more likely that the truth is that the arc in question accidentally made the villains in question more sympathetic than the author intended, their arc was always to fall apart due to palpatine's machinations despite their weak but growing understanding of the power of friendships, and the more bog-standard ending we seem to be headed towards was always the goal. to bring it back around i think a real commonality between MHA and JJK was a fan perception (which wasn't based on nothing) that each story was going to upend certain tropes that certain segments of fandom are vocally tired of. But here we are and MHA offscreened the destruction of the evil assassination-based cabal that ran the government lol and JJK did in fact have its superstrong mentor go out against the big villain while (arguably) permanently weakening them and passing the torch to the next era. a real difference, on the other hand, is that each work is weird about women in idiosyncratic and exciting ways. Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 20:37
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Reggie should have lived
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Oct 12, 2023 20:41
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I would consider Nobara dead if this wasn't a series full of magic bullshit. That being said, them straight up saying she's dead after all the dancing around it would be so funnny
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Oct 12, 2023 20:46
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ImpAtom posted:Nobara will only die when the series can make me care about someone introduced after her. You're telling me you don't love Hana, whose role was to free Gojo and then reveal her sad backstory just in time to get socially engineered into failing to solve the situation with Mekuna?
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Oct 12, 2023 20:47
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I genuinely forgot Nobara existed until I saw her in the new anime season. It's been over 2 years since her last appearance, and she never had much screen time nor was she ever important to the plot. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 20:48
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Conspiratiorist posted:I genuinely forgot Nobara existed until I saw her in the new anime season. ... what? Nobara was onscreen all the time. She was one of the main three characters and spent a lot of time sharing one brain cell with Yuji.
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Oct 12, 2023 20:57
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The end of season 1 is literally a climactic fight where they both go all out! She has a unique cursed ability to attack the soul directly which SEEMINGLY had importance vs 3 enemies who you need to do that to!
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Oct 12, 2023 20:57
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Even if Nobara was not plot revelant she still has been incredibly cool on screen which is sometimes all you need. See also: Todo
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Oct 12, 2023 21:05
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ImpAtom posted:... what? IIRC they only teamed up once when she was introduced and again vs the death paintings. Since she got introduced a bit later and then Yuji died until the interschool tournament their relationship didn't leave much of an impression. Electric Phantasm posted:See also: Todo hosed up Todo is just gone when he's a genuine powerhouse even without his CT. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 21:11
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Conspiratiorist posted:I genuinely forgot Nobara existed until I saw her in the new anime season. It doesn't matter if she was plot important when she had a ton of screen time, presence, and attention brought to her character plus had loads of charisma. There are some really cool characters in the Culling Games like Hakari and Higuruma, they're just not the people I came to this party with. It's part of why I am more content with the post culling game stuff as I actually have investment in Sukuna as a villain rather then another incarnated sorcerer.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:25
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Asuron posted:I read the last Bleach arc again because of the new season, to see what they changed. Anyone who actually thinks JJK or MHA or even Naruto even comes close to the awfulness of that last arc as it came out are just flat out wrong. Mostly agreed, though I'd actually rank late Naruto above late MHA. Where JJK ranks remains to be seen and depends heavily on how events play out in the coming chapters.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:27
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I want Todo to clap Sukuna's dumb super slash back at him
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Oct 12, 2023 21:35
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Electric Phantasm posted:See also: Todo Checkmate. Todo will show back up once more when the story seems darkest, high five Yuji, and deliver Sukuna right into Takaba's hands for an epic beatdown.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:41
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I can't really speak to Bleach's endgame quality because I stopped reading it during the final arc (which I guess says quite a lot, but  ), but out of Naruto, MHA, and JJK I'd say JJK is the worst. I'm basically reading it because it's a trainwreck at this point and I'm curious to see how much worse it's going to get.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:44
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I don't know what is shattered in people's minds that they think anything going on right now is comparable to endgame Bleach or Naruto.
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Oct 12, 2023 21:54
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JJK is really good right now, but I guess Gojo dying broke some peoples souls
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Oct 12, 2023 22:09
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RevolverDivider posted:I don't know what is shattered in people's minds that they think anything going on right now is comparable to endgame Bleach or Naruto. Endgame Naruto was not that bad compared with most other end-game long-running shounen series. It definitely wasn't as bad as end-game Bleach (which was really on another level and even exceptionally bad compared with other long-running shounen endings). I think people reacted more negatively to it largely because of how drawn-out it was week-to-week + the fact that, for people of a certain age, mocking Naruto was just a thing you did at the time (so people remember it in that way). But when comparing it with other series over the decades, it does pretty well. JJK has definitely been better (and I expect it to stay better, unless it just completely shits the bed), but as mentioned I think MHA has actually probably been worse. MHA tries to do the same "big war with All The Characters" thing that Naruto did, but, IMO, does it even worse. Unlike Naruto, it doesn't even have coherent and easy-to-follow fight choreography. And some of the side fights in the last Naruto arc were still pretty decent, while most late-game MHA fights have been uninteresting and difficult to follow. edit: I also like what JJK has done with Gojo, including the "weird" chapter
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Oct 12, 2023 22:09
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Zzulu posted:JJK is really good right now, but I guess Gojo dying broke some peoples souls It started before that. honestly the rush to release Gojo suddenly in terms of story pacing, abandoning the culling game with a hand wave monologue more or less, and the impression of missing chapters while Yuji has been mostly vacant for over a year in the manga, plus all the new characters that are summarily wasted on screen even if you liked them (they are mostly dead now and that time could have been spent on people we do know and care about), are the bigger culprits for folks having issues with how this is playing out and being concerned that, like Bleach, the author has given up on the property and just wants to kinda be done with it. Does anyone think the 3 chapters where the americans show up were worth the panels? I am still enjoying JJK, but this arc is not its strongest and folks are not broken for having those feels if this is the conclusion arc (which it sure seems like). The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 22:11
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Zzulu posted:JJK is really good right now, but I guess Gojo dying broke some peoples souls Nah, it was before that. For me the thing that made me realize JJK is pretty bad was the one-two punch of the Yuki Tsukumo fight and all the poo poo with Yorozu. Gojo's death being really badly handled was just a continuation of a trend.
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Oct 12, 2023 22:22
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my enjoyment of JJK has only been increasing the closer we get to the end. I couldn’t finish Naruto and what some are describing as an unfolding train wreck that they’re following just to see to the end was Bleach for me. At least every chapter of end game Bleach took less than 1 minute to read each week. I can understand why some people are upset, but I was down for the ride ever since Gege showed us that this powerful super special evil force sealed inside the protagonist was not going to slowly be won over by the power of friendship. The story was setup to follow traditional shonen tropes and Gege decided to hard fork at every intersection. I like JJK for its love of suffering/edginess because it’s not like Bleach or Naruto. The times you expect the good guys to win and they just eat poo poo instead - I love it. yum fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 12, 2023 |
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Oct 12, 2023 22:26
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JJK's pacing has been way off during the culling game. Shibuya was very close to Chimera Ant finale in impact, pacing, etc. However that directly led into the culling game which was full of tangents, weird one off story arcs that seemed to be rushing characters to a certain conclusion, and weirdly paced or dropped resolutions to established plot points. Protecting Megumi's sister was a big part of CG arc's purpose and it both utterly failed but even the plot twist was just dropped soon after because the incarnated sorc got merked. The entire point of it was to find allies to free Gojo but he got merked right after being freed. The US military's involvement and the multiple character side story of that stuff. Maki getting her turbo upgrade but then also having to fight the antagonist of that arc AGAIN Angel becoming a major plot character but everything she did gets reversal'd so why even have her? Tsukumo fight debut + immediate merking The culling game points & rules dumb poo poo that didnt matter in the end The Culling Game itself being resolved with a handwave The art has been hella sketchy too for the entire CG - its clear that Gege is running up against it. And I think in a vacuum any of these plot points are fine but needed more breathing room / better pacing.
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Oct 12, 2023 22:49
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yum posted:I can understand why some people are upset, but I was down for the ride ever since Gege showed us that this powerful super special evil force sealed inside the protagonist was not going to slowly be won over by the power of friendship. The story was setup to follow traditional shonen tropes and Gege decided to hard fork at every intersection. I like JJK for its love of suffering/edginess because it’s not like Bleach or Naruto. The times you expect the good guys to win and they just eat poo poo instead - I love it. Same. Even the nonsense that is Culling Game, inarguably wonky pacing aside, I appreciate because it was clearly taking a piss at shounen tournament/death game plotlines - the villain only set it up as a distraction and way to gather cursed energy while he worked his actual plans.
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Oct 12, 2023 22:58
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There are plenty of shonen that subvert shonen tropes. I liked JJK in the first half because it did it well. I don't think it has been doing it well since the Culling Games. That's all there is to it. It isn't about 'disliking suffering.'
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Oct 12, 2023 23:02
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JJK killed Americans and folks, I aint gonna take that sittin down
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Oct 12, 2023 23:31
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Shinjobi posted:JJK killed Americans and folks, I aint gonna take that sittin down Release a Cursed Technique, My rear end (I won't release a Cursed Technique)
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Oct 12, 2023 23:50
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Yeah that deserves a standing ovation.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:04
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Describing Naruto as a train wreck seems harsh. After the timeskip it got very inconsistent but hit some high highs. It gracefully glided towards a boring conclusion. Also, it was a manga that was more enjoyable by reading volumes rather than chapters. Now, Bleach...
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Oct 13, 2023 00:18
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Char posted:Describing Naruto as a train wreck seems harsh. After the timeskip it got very inconsistent but hit some high highs. It gracefully glided towards a boring conclusion. this is true for a lot of series. where the week over week especially for complex fights slows the series down to a crawl but on reread you blast through it
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Oct 13, 2023 00:20
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I can't really be objective about Naruto since even when it was good I found the two leads totally insufferable from start to finish but even with hilarious low points like he was the coolest guy it didn't totally collapse the way Bleach did. Which is especially a shame since as the current show is highlighting the beginning of Bleach's final arc is excellent
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Oct 13, 2023 00:22
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:this is true for a lot of series. where the week over week especially for complex fights slows the series down to a crawl but on reread you blast through it One Piece rode the "20 pages every week" format better than anything else, on average, but it's a manga where you'd never have a 13 chapters fight between two characters. Chainsaw Man has been borderline unenjoyable in a weekly format. It's incredibly better as a volume-to-volume read. RevolverDivider posted:I can't really be objective about Naruto since even when it was good I found the two leads totally insufferable from start to finish but even with hilarious low points like he was the coolest guy it didn't totally collapse the way Bleach did. I agree with you, the two main leads weren't characters that resonated much with me either, the supporting cast was more enjoyable and the highest highs to me were Itachi and Obito's threads. Char fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Oct 13, 2023 |
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Oct 13, 2023 00:26
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the show is filing in a lot of material that kubo clearly had to gloss over as his body imploded we’ll see how it handles the main villain’s completely asinine final power though
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Oct 13, 2023 00:27
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Conspiratiorist posted:Same. Even the nonsense that is Culling Game, inarguably wonky pacing aside, I appreciate because it was clearly taking a piss at shounen tournament/death game plotlines - the villain only set it up as a distraction and way to gather cursed energy while he worked his actual plans.  ImpAtom posted:There are plenty of shonen that subvert shonen tropes. I liked JJK in the first half because it did it well. I don't think it has been doing it well since the Culling Games. That's all there is to it. It isn't about 'disliking suffering.' I like the series even more since the Culling Games. It's basically a back-to-back series of cool fights/scenarios that Gege felt like drawing. I really enjoyed the battles starting from Yuji vs Higurumi, Reggie vs Megumi, Hakari vs Kashimo, Sendai 4, Maki, Kenjaku vs Yuki/Choso (shame about Yuki), into Sukuna's Big Day. It might not have been very cohesive narratively, but the individual fights were cool to me. Different stokes for different folks etc. Re: 'suffering' I was just talking about past comments about how there have been fewer lighthearted moments as the series progressed. Would like to see more Ws for female characters though.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:53
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yum posted:Would like to see more Ws for female characters though. I'm pretty sure Maki is the only one left (barring Nobara actually coming back), so uh, I guess we'll see.
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Oct 13, 2023 00:58
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Shinjobi posted:JJK killed Americans and folks, I aint gonna take that sittin down yeah cuz im standing up clapping e.fb
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Oct 13, 2023 00:58
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