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Woke culture implies that being racist without screaming the N word at the top of your lungs and/or actively lynching black people in the town square is still, in fact, bad and not acceptable. Woke culture implies that recognizing women are not only not property - already a ridiculous ask! - but in fact might be human beings is necessary and good. I could go on. It's really quite simple: woke culture says that being less evil than a literal open Nazi or Klansman is still not enough and this is unacceptable to these people because they are already deeply unhappy about not being allowed to be literal open Nazis an Klansmen. It's really that simple. They can't define it because it's both nebulous like that, and more importantly because if they were able to define it, they would not need to as it would mean they no longer needed masks.
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Oct 21, 2023 19:10
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"woke" just means "anything not in Leave it to Beaver" e.g. Anything that's not traditional cishet white religious American "values". It's pretty easy to figure out And no we shouldn't care because we're not bigots
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Oct 21, 2023 20:06
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Elephant Ambush posted:"woke" just means "anything not in Leave it to Beaver" e.g. Anything that's not traditional cishet white religious American "values". It's pretty easy to figure out
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Oct 21, 2023 22:12
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I think it serves as a shibboleth as well. If you have to ask what it means or you’re not already in agreement about it when you hear it, you’re the enemy. We don’t care that it doesn’t taste like apples, grandpa!
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Oct 21, 2023 22:16
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Kale posted:I'm still kind of awestruck by, especially considering how long right wing people have been going on about it, they're inability to articulate in any meaningful way what their grievance is with "woke culture", why anyone should really loving care beyond them bringing it up as a talking point at random when they seemingly have nothing else to talk about, or to even actually define "woke" other than that it apparently exists and everyone should be rejecting it. You kind of have to hand it to RWM grifters in selling people this particular grievance well and what looks to be the actual thought control being "force fed down people's throats" cause none of it makes any loving sense. They used to call it "politically incorrect" and, like then, all it really means is "try to be polite, see if avoid you can avoid being an rear end in a top hat, apologize if you are and understand that not everyone is just like you". That's really IT. Like, seriously all there loving is to it. "Try to be nice". But these folks look at it as if you're being offended, then it's your problem because "Mah' Freedum ah' speech". But it's gotten to the point now where if you're not offending someone, you're speaking wrong. Not freely. I had some interesting conversations today with some coworkers that I'll put in another post. ... In RWM news: some lady called into WGOP today and called Jim Jordan a deeply moral man, a patriot and someone who hates corruption and scandal. Jim Jordan, the guy that looked the other way and helped cover up a sex abuse scandal at Ohio State University. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_...to%20stop%20it. I guess that's fake news? I also accidentally got to listen to that "Try That in a Small Town" song and, musically, it's not bad but, lyrically, jesus god what a load of poo poo. It reeks of "any N-words , F-words, commies, trans folk or flag burners that try that poo poo will get shot" and, perhaps even worse, is trying to espouse the values of small towns that "look out for each other". And it's loving bullshit. Now, lemme tell you something about small towns; especially ones in the south. They're among the most corrupt, dishonest, hate filled, violent, unwelcoming and mean loving places I've ever been. And I've lived in Center City Philadelphia, The Mission DIstrict in SF and Decatur in Atlanta. These small burgs that conservatives like to romanticize are often riddled with drugs, robberies, DUI's, assaults, bullies, meth labs and all sorts of hateful poo poo. The cops in these towns are also totally out of control. Speed traps, random searches, profiling, corruption, shakedowns, brutality...you name it. The churches that prey on the community are similarly corrupt and work in unison with the cops, the church and whatever passes for government, which is usually some combination of those things. Sure, they all know each other but gently caress me if they get along. No coincidence at all that all they can find to listen to is RW talk radio, church broadcasts and country songs telling them their the salt of the loving earth because they go to church, stand for the flag and own guns. TL/DR: Get the gently caress out of here with that good ole southern hospitality bullshit. The people in many of these places loving hate each other, let alone outsiders, and view EVERYONE as a potential threat, with fear and with utter disdain. They're not polite nor hospitable. That segment from Easy Rider is not made up and the stereotypes of mean rednecks are not at all unearned. I've felt as uncomfortable in Rifle Colorado, Valdosta GA or Bakersfield CA as I ever did on 12th and Walnut in Philly, South Atlanta, Chicago or riding BART in SF. I know I'm painting them with a broad brush here and they're not ALL like that but my experiences have not been pleasant. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Oct 21, 2023 |
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Oct 21, 2023 23:34
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I found it a little  that the song whips from taking about various actual crimes to just... Protesting with the ominous implication that the reprisal is going to be uniform.
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Oct 21, 2023 23:46
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BiggerBoat posted:I also accidentally got to listen to that "Try That in a Small Town" song and, musically, it's not bad but, lyrically, jesus god what a load of poo poo. It reeks of "any N-words , F-words, commies, trans folk or flag burners that try that poo poo will get shot" and, perhaps even worse, is trying to espouse the values of small towns that "look out for each other". And it's loving bullshit. It's part of the brand of "country" music which otherizes anyone not exactly like them by claiming exclusive ownership of universal values. "We aren't like those city folk, we respect other people/love our kids/don't burn kittens/etc." It encourages the listener to think of themselves as superior by convincing them that anyone who disagrees with them is subhuman. And you can tell they think of it this way because if they know you aren't "like them" you can see them watch for your reaction with a poo poo-eating grin hoping to catch the moment the lib gets owned. It's a big part of why I don't respect people who listen to modern country music; if the best thing you can say about yourself is "I love my children" then you aren't worth being around.
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Oct 22, 2023 10:05
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I AM GRANDO posted:I think it serves as a shibboleth as well. If you have to ask what it means or you’re not already in agreement about it when you hear it, you’re the enemy. We don’t care that it doesn’t taste like apples, grandpa! https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/06/02/donald-trump-woke-meaning/70279963007/ quote:Former President Donald Trump told a crowd of supporters he doesn’t like the term “woke,” arguing that people using the term don’t know what it means.
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Oct 22, 2023 10:17
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 And it has morphed since from the crying part into 'Gonna Stand mah ground by shooting y'all'
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Oct 22, 2023 10:22
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happyhippy posted:
That bud lite didn't age well either
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Oct 22, 2023 10:24
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Charlz Guybon posted:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/06/02/donald-trump-woke-meaning/70279963007/
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Oct 22, 2023 12:24
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Charlz Guybon posted:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/06/02/donald-trump-woke-meaning/70279963007/ Huh, I actually agree with Donald Trump about something. Not sure how to feel about that
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Oct 22, 2023 16:09
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happyhippy posted:
Also no more Bud Light because that's what them gender types drink.
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Oct 22, 2023 16:16
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The Islamic Shock posted:Trump... right about something? Feels weird man. Larryb posted:Huh, I actually agree with Donald Trump about something. Not sure how to feel about that I wouldn't worry. I doubt you two have the same people who use "woke" but can't define it as Trump does.
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Oct 22, 2023 17:31
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The Islamic Shock posted:Trump... right about something? Feels weird man. Larryb posted:Huh, I actually agree with Donald Trump about something. Not sure how to feel about that This couldn't possibly be anything to campaign against DeSantis, the only real challenger Trump has for 2024.
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Oct 22, 2023 18:06
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There's nothing like the Canadian Residential School system to make the world's worst people write the most odious stuff. (From what I can tell from reliable sources, while it's true that I don't think graves were ever unmarked from the beginning, there was astonishing racism and neglect involved at every level of the residential system. Children were abused with harsh discipline intended to forcibly assimilate them, schools were so unconcerned with their well-being that native children had a double or triple rate of tuberculosis death than white Canadians, and there was little care or funding for ensuring that dead children had dignified, maintained gravesites. Native Canadian leaders were consistent in these points going back years.) Every paragraph of this has something false or morally disgusting. quote:The narrative exploded overnight, and as a result, many Catholic churches were razed and others vandalized. It was remarkable to live through, as it was in the summer of 2021 when vaccine hatred really started to ramp up. It was a very difficult time to be a Catholic Canadian, and a vaccine heretic at that. William Bear fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Oct 22, 2023 |
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Oct 22, 2023 19:25
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Jesus Christ
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Oct 22, 2023 19:33
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That last paragraph really, really loving went for it. "There's a long history of torturing and messily murdering barbarians and raising their children in a superior culture, why are you weeping about this one?"
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Oct 22, 2023 19:44
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Blame Canada!
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Oct 22, 2023 19:56
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Love to stan for the Crusaders to the Holy Land Those people exist???
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Oct 22, 2023 20:02
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William Bear posted:There's nothing like the Canadian Residential School system to make the world's worst people write the most odious stuff. The problem is that as soon as they didn't find bodies people thought existed it became more than enough of an excuse to discredit the entire thing. It became yet another 'Smollet' type hoax used to buttress right wing criticisms of the left. I loving guarantee they'll work this hoax into every 'debate' they have about the mistreatment of First Nations individuals. That didn't happen, there were no unmarked graves And if there were, it wasn't because they were First Nations And if it was, that's not White peoples fault And if it is, then it must be racist leftist policies driving it, like slavery. And if it was white conservatives , nobody responsible is even alive anymore to be punished anyway. And if they are alive, then it's the leftists fault for upsetting religious people into doing all this in the first place.
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Oct 22, 2023 21:30
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William Bear posted:There's nothing like the Canadian Residential School system to make the world's worst people write the most odious stuff. 
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Oct 22, 2023 21:34
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Jesus christ that's vile. Like, it's almost better if you re-imagine it as a thought experiment of "what would a modern version of The White Man's Burden look like if written by a freeper?"
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Oct 22, 2023 21:41
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Of course, Pope Francis visited Canada in 2022 to apologize for the Catholic role in the residential school system, called it genocide, and later, officially repudiated the Doctrine of Discovery as Catholic doctrine. So a nominally Catholic publication shouldn't be publishing this trash. The Crisis Magazine, however, is the kind of Catholic magazine that hates Francis and sees even his smallest reforms as a betrayal of tradition.
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Oct 22, 2023 21:59
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Right-wing celebration of Israel is a weird way to attack Democrats because there is literally no daylight between republican and democratic policy re: Israel. There is at most a difference in rhetoric where democrats talk about a lone bastion of democracy and republicans scream about how all Arabs must die.
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Oct 23, 2023 02:04
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I AM GRANDO posted:Right-wing celebration of Israel is a weird way to attack Democrats because there is literally no daylight between republican and democratic policy re: Israel. There is at most a difference in rhetoric where democrats talk about a lone bastion of democracy and republicans scream about how all Arabs must die. I don’t know. This seems like intent matters. “Hey guys can we not go a decade or so without a ‘kill all the Jews’ war?” Vs.. “If we ramp up tensions and get everyone to kill everyone else in the area then that’s got to bring on the rapture, right?” Is maybe not a lot of daylight policy wise but the end goal isn’t even close.
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Oct 23, 2023 02:26
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Murgos posted:I don’t know. This seems like intent matters. There hasn't been a 'kill all the Jews' war since WW2, there's been a few "get the gently caress off our land" international wars since, and occasionally some uprisings against Apartheid. The framing that Israel must have an ethnostate and be allowed to oppress Palestinians, which is a mainstream Democratic position, is itself right-wing media in the worst way. They're just slightly less horny for mass death than the hard right.
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Oct 23, 2023 02:42
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Larryb posted:Huh, I actually agree with Donald Trump about something. Not sure how to feel about that
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Oct 23, 2023 04:15
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happyhippy posted:
"we live back in the woods ya see, them big city problems don't bother meeeeeee" -man who lives in a suburb and dresses in a closet with more square footage than a normal person's apartment
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Oct 23, 2023 09:05
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PT6A posted:"he framing that Israel must have an ethnostate and be allowed to oppress Palestinians, which is a mainstream Democratic position There are 1.7 million non-Palestinian Muslims in Israel, close to 30% of the population. Please provide evidence for your assertion that there is a mainstream Democratic position to purge them to form an 'Ethnostate'.
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Oct 23, 2023 15:35
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Murgos posted:There are 1.7 million non-Palestinian Muslims in Israel, close to 30% of the population. Please provide evidence for your assertion that there is a mainstream Democratic position to purge them to form an 'Ethnostate'. Hmmm I wonder what Wikipedia has to say about that. “In its Basic Laws, Israel defines itself as a Jewish and democratic state, and as the nation-state of the Jewish people.“ I don’t think it intends to purge the non-Jewish citizen population, but it defines itself as an ethnostate. I think that’s bad, that’s an inherently right-wing proposition.
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Oct 23, 2023 16:41
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PT6A posted:Hmmm I wonder what Wikipedia has to say about that. Yes that's nice but Murgos asked you to back up the assertion about a mainstream Democratic policy blah blah, not the word "ethnostate" in isolation. Keep going.
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Oct 23, 2023 19:33
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Weatherman posted:Yes that's nice but Murgos asked you to back up the assertion about a mainstream Democratic policy blah blah, not the word "ethnostate" in isolation. Keep going. Yes, it is a mainstream Democratic position to support Israel. The Democratic president has said, on many occasions, things like "we stand by Israel" and "Israel has a right to defend itself." Prominent Democratic leaders have followed this, with only a few speaking out against it. No prominent Democrats have stated, by word or action, that the Jewish character of Israel, as enshrined in its law, is contrary to small-d democratic values. No prominent Democrats have called for a one-state solution which provides equal human and civil rights to Palestinians in the occupied territories -- at most, you have a few who have supported a two-state solution which is just more ethnostate bullshit. Many very smart Israelis including Miko Peled and Ilan Pappe have described a one-state, post-Zionist solution which would not involve the ethnic cleansing of Israel, but rather two groups living side-by-side in legal equality, exactly as we have in other settler-colonial states that have civilized themselves somewhat. I'm not enough of an optimist to say there will be de facto equality any time soon -- after all, there still isn't between settlers and Indigenous peoples anywhere in the Americas, but many of our countries have stopped the explicit legal division between the two groups in terms of human and civil rights. It's not an insane idea, because if you're a Canadian or an American or an Australian or a South African... you've already seen it done!
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Oct 23, 2023 20:14
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I don’t think Israel would ever agree voluntarily to a one-state solution with full equality when the Palestinian Arab population outnumbers the Jewish Israeli one already. The solution to Aparheid S.A. was BDS, but Israel has mostly succeeded in stopping that scenario.
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Oct 23, 2023 20:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:I don’t think Israel would ever agree voluntarily to a one-state solution with full equality when the Palestinian Arab population outnumbers the Jewish Israeli one already. Historian Tony Judt, himself Jewish and who had lived in Israel for a few years as a younger man (and served as a volunteer in the Six Day War), got in a fair amount of trouble in 2003 when he argued the peace process was not only dead but had been murdered, and that, quote:Thanks to its occupation of the lands conquered in 1967, Israel today faces three unattractive choices. It can dismantle the Jewish settlements in the territories, return to the 1967 state borders within which Jews constitute a clear majority, and thus remain both a Jewish state and a democracy, albeit one with a constitutionally anomalous community of second-class Arab citizens. So, options two or three seems to be the way we're headed.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:18
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Historian Tony Judt, himself Jewish and who had lived in Israel for a few years as a younger man (and served as a volunteer in the Six Day War), got in a fair amount of trouble in 2003 when he argued the peace process was not only dead but had been murdered, and that, I think Ol Tony is overestimating how much of a pariah Israel would be if they implemented option 3.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:27
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LionYeti posted:I think Ol Tony is overestimating how much of a pariah Israel would be if they implemented option 3. He revised his opinion shortly before his own death, in that direction. He had in 2003 estimated that America would get tired of Israel's continuing flouting of international law and would eventually turn its back on the increasingly-Apartheid state, but by 2010 he soured on that, claiming that American foreign policy had in this regard subordinated itself to the Israeli cabinet.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:29
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LionYeti posted:I think Ol Tony is overestimating how much of a pariah Israel would be if they implemented option 3. What? It's the option they're engaging right now to thunderous applause?
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Oct 23, 2023 21:30
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HootTheOwl posted:What? It's the option they're engaging right now to thunderous applause? We committed a litany of human rights abuses and war crimes within the past two decades and the only punishments were for the people who *let the US public know*. And then we elected a fascist. So this is not surprising in the least.
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Oct 23, 2023 22:06
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HootTheOwl posted:What? It's the option they're engaging right now to thunderous applause?
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Oct 23, 2023 22:37
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