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Jack B Nimble posted:
I always laugh when an organization has a motto but also thinks another thing is cool so they call their second motto something else.
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Oct 27, 2023 19:26
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Jack B Nimble posted:Grappling: S H O E S - This could be Kutsu or they could be being very obtuse and it could be ashi[feet]. Not because Ashi == shoes, but because the rest of the test has stuff featuring parts of gi such as obi, sode, judogi, etc and to my knowledge no such thing as grappling shoes in judo. I'd go with Kutsu though.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:13
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"foot or leg" is another section along with hip, hand, major, minor, etc, all the stuff you'll use for wazas. Shoe seems to be in same section as gi, obi, etc, so I'm thinking they just want me to know shoe because where you put them, when you take them off, etc, is important in Judo. Shame none of y'all can climb the drat rope for me.
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Oct 27, 2023 20:20
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Doc says he doesnt think theres major ligament damage, six weeks prescription anti inflammatories, can do jits, no rolling,and if stuff hurts dont do it . No judo though. Should heal on its own.
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Oct 30, 2023 19:24
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That's about the best possible outcome on a knee injury; best wishes on a speedy recovery!
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Oct 31, 2023 03:34
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Defenestrategy posted:Doc says he doesnt think theres major ligament damage, six weeks prescription anti inflammatories, can do jits, no rolling,and if stuff hurts dont do it . No judo though. Should heal on its own. Nestharken posted:That's about the best possible outcome on a knee injury; best wishes on a speedy recovery!  glad to hear it!
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Oct 31, 2023 03:51
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Speaking of messing up people's legs, one of my instructors showed a toehold grip variation today that he's been playing around with (2:16 timestamp): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc9QrG1A2Gw&t=136s It's so much better than the usual one that I have no idea why it took me 10 minutes to find a video demonstrating it. Maybe there are some downsides that he didn't mention, but I was repeatedly finishing it one-handed during line drills with *much* less effort required than the normal version, and I consider the normal version to be one of my strongest moves. Moments like these make me think that the sport is still in its infancy in terms of technique, even after all of the DDS "ultimate system" marketing. Sure, there's nothing new under the sun, and you can even find ancient Roman carvings of a dude getting heelhooked by a centaur, but there are still sooo many technical improvements left to be discovered and popularized.
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Nov 1, 2023 22:29
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Nestharken posted:
I've seen this variation taught a few places, and there are tons of others as well. There's inside toehold["normal"], outside toehold, heel hold, toe fold, "power toe hold", "The Big Toe" hold, etc,etc,etc If I was gonna teach toe holds to a class though, I'd just teach the normal "Take their toe and shove it in their butthole" variation. It's easy to understand and remember, it's easy to trouble shoot mid roll "oh he's not tapping, his toe must not be in his butthole shove harder", the vast majority of people are gonna tap to it, and most people are gonna have the ability to tap before you do damage with it. You don't really NEED the other variants they're just really useful when youre fighting freaks with amazingly foldable feet/ankles or dudes who can keep their legs straightened against your twisting ability.
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Nov 2, 2023 00:14
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Nestharken posted:Speaking of messing up people's legs, one of my instructors showed a toehold grip variation today that he's been playing around with (2:16 timestamp): but like...how do you wind up in that reverse half-guard position in the first place
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Nov 2, 2023 01:26
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Mechafunkzilla posted:but like...how do you wind up in that reverse half-guard position in the first place my favorite move. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tT3mxgRnGo
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Nov 2, 2023 01:39
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nice
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Nov 2, 2023 01:43
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You can get to reverse top half guard by being in normal top half guard, throwing your free leg over, and turning. The leg lock instructor at my gym does it a lot to me and it's like I've suddenly realized the movie I'm watching is a horror film.
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Nov 2, 2023 02:21
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Mechafunkzilla posted:but like...how do you wind up in that reverse half-guard position in the first place Any time you’re in top half guard you can switch into it and pass from there. It lets you pass to side control, but you can get kimuras or leglocks off their responses. Most common situation for me is that I try to pass from there, they squeeze my leg really tight and make it hard to pass, then I get a kimura grip. With a kimura grip and my leg tied up, I use my other foot to clear the entanglement. It either gets me into v-mount/vegan mount/butterfly mount, or i roll over the top into a t-kimura. If they don’t give you the far arm, you sweep your elbow up into their armpit on the far side and climb.
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Nov 2, 2023 02:46
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Any time you’re in top half guard you can switch into it and pass from there. It lets you pass to side control, but you can get kimuras or leglocks off their responses. Most common situation for me is that I try to pass from there, they squeeze my leg really tight and make it hard to pass, then I get a kimura grip. With a kimura grip and my leg tied up, I use my other foot to clear the entanglement. It either gets me into v-mount/vegan mount/butterfly mount, or i roll over the top into a t-kimura. Jack B Nimble posted:You can get to reverse top half guard by being in normal top half guard, throwing your free leg over, and turning. The leg lock instructor at my gym does it a lot to me and it's like I've suddenly realized the movie I'm watching is a horror film. yes I know about stepback kneebars and stuff, but you're generally not doing that with the aim of getting yourself toeholded. defenestrategy answered the question (and it's a different position than the ones you guys are referring to, which is more like letting someone get a half-back take that they can't finish because you have arm control of some kind)
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Nov 2, 2023 04:12
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Gotcha, I was sitting around waiting for a dinner order and hadn't had time to watch the linked video, sorry. I did finally upload my Judo tournament matches from last weekend, I'd welcome any feedback or criticism; I'm in the blue belt both times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tedLX5PaVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjZEiZbSbco Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 04:25
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Nice pin! The main thing I'd say is how heavy on your feet you look -- no lateral movement, feet flat, taking big lunging steps instead of shuffling, that kind of thing. You can see how at 0:35 of the first video, when your opponent attacks, you just kind of squat and sink into your heels instead of using your footwork to get your hips out, create distance, circle and face your opponent, something actually helpful.
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Nov 2, 2023 04:42
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You're absolutely right; I actually think I've already begun to work on that, I told myself to move more like I was boxing during Randori today and I noticed both that I was able to attack and defend more easily and also my BJJ professor looked exhausted at the end of the round, I think it made him work much more.
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Nov 2, 2023 05:00
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Nestharken posted:Speaking of messing up people's legs, one of my instructors showed a toehold grip variation today that he's been playing around with (2:16 timestamp): Mechafunkzilla posted:but like...how do you wind up in that reverse half-guard position in the first place
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Nov 2, 2023 14:22
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Jack B Nimble posted:Gotcha, I was sitting around waiting for a dinner order and hadn't had time to watch the linked video, sorry. This is going to be a weird criticism given that you won, but it's what I saw - In the first/longer video you're too accepting of your opponent's strong/dominant grips. He gets those high grips and pulls you down and breaks your posture and you're like "oh ok, I guess I need to fight from here now." It works out for you in both cases, but those windows to get throws when on the wrong side of a lopsided grip will get smaller and smaller against faster and more technical opponents. Block those big reaches and/or counter them when they're reaching instead of after and/or and/or strip the grips. It doesn't even need to be a full strip - if you can slide someone's hand 2" down your lapel that's often enough.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:40
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Yes, I actually brought that up with a Sensei after the match, and then had a night a day different exhibition match against the same person. Basically, I'd always been taught to look for a sleeve grip from the bottom up, like how you'd toss a soft ball underhanded, and that was absolutely not working on that guy. He'd swing his right hand in laterally, like a hook, and I was always either late or just not in a strong enough grip to hold him. The Sensei suggested that, in those situations, I raise my left hand up, more like I'm boxing, and catch the top of the wrist as he swings in. It worked immediately and there was an immense difference in how hard grip fighting him felt and how strong he seemed. Regarding the throws, the first (longer match) I wasn't even thinking about it, I actually thought we were in ne waza at the time and I was just doing something I'd do in BJJ, just wrenching him down so I could get a top position. The second fight though, that was absolutely a move I'd been doing and practicing and it was gratifying to see it work well against someone it surprised.
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Nov 2, 2023 14:48
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I don't understand why the ref stood you up after like 2 seconds of your opponent working on a turnover, but I would say if you're going to turtle, turtle tight. Congrats on the wins!
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Nov 2, 2023 14:49
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That dean lister to hold entry vid (and the elbow finish one) were enlightening, thank you.
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Nov 2, 2023 16:37
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Ill post about match one a bit later, but match two was excellent, osoto maki komi directly into osaekomi. It didnt seem that uki was trying to escape though or didnt know how to escape and was just ineffectually playing with your far arm. I assume you had close to camera arm around hip and the far arm around head? For as unstable as that pin was it really didnt seem that guy was trying to escape, I would have moved to kesa or north south instead of trying to pin him with a self crucifix/reverse cradle kinda deal. Edit: oh you had arm and hip, yea that doesnt seem like a stable pin, i would have gone with kesa instead. Also whyd someone huck something at yall at the end? ? Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 17:08
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Match 1: I can tell guy has a significant height and lankiness advantage, which means unless you're really aggressive and immediately grab the edge of the sleeve and stiff arm it down he's gonna get what ever grip he wants. Remember, you're allowed to stiff arm so long as you're doing "positive judo", so even if you have nothing from there specifically if you make it look like you're going for trips or throws, the ref SHOULDN'T* call you for being too defensive or using the sleeve defensively, however; if you do grab the sleeve stiff arm it, dance around, and not actually try attacks, or you aren't convincing with your attacks you will definitely get a shido. So take that advice for what its worth. and yep, he is able to grab your collar and still have a significant bend in his arm, that sucks. Luckily he doesn't know how to take absolute significant advantage of his lankiness by grabbing the back of your collar and settles on going 50/50 with you. at :10 he stumbles in and his feet are parallel with each other, at that point any turn throw would have been a highlight reel, you might not have had your feet under you though to take advantage of this, cant tell because of ref in the way. at :14 I am going to assume that was a sacrifice throw attempt that failed and the guy stumbles forward taking you to the ground. Referee awards wazari for white I think, I'm not well versed in how referees actually use the hand signals, even though the action to me looked like, failed sacrifice throw, guy pushes forwards, trips over you, and you scramble on top. If I where king of judo I wouldn't have scored that either way, is yuko a thing in competition? at :18, you're on top and it appears as if white has your lapel in one hand and your sleeve in the other and is building his base up, this would be a good back take. Scrambly dude manages to build up to a dog fight, dumps you, and referee literally gives him 4 ish seconds to attack and stands you up, but he wasn't really doing anything except for switching back and forth so, I guess that's fair :36 guy says gently caress it and tries to kick you in the sack with a poorly executed uchi mata with no kizushi behind it, you should have switched to a waist grab and given him the uranagi from hell for this, instead he cuts the corner and decides to give you the uranagi from hell, only a wazari because you landed on your side but woof, that looked like it sucked bad. Good job breaking osaekomi with half guard, luckily you only took sevenish seconds of osaekomi for it so he doesn't get a wazari. Dude doesn't look like he knows how to pass half guard, and although it sucks you can now basically lay and pray until the ref stands up... any moment now... *looks at watch* 18 seconds kinda bullshit, ref gives him 4 on top turtle doing nothing and now gives him 18 doing nothing. 1:18 Oh poo poo the guy realized he's lanky and is now activating the lanky super power of deep grabbing the back of your collar. You are hosed now, but you have some options, mine would be go belly to belly and yeeting this man for the audacity, but you could also just ouchigari him. Luckily he fucks up and goes really aggressive trying to ouchigari you without kizushi, a step in, or pressure so it fails and you go with a hip toss using his shoulder as leverage, pretty sneaky, but be careful because if the other guy had slipped a bit or if you had been off a bit you would have ended up in a standing telephone armbar. You get a hip toss and prowrestling style pin him, but I guess thats a wazari and thats the game. Big takeaways for me would be: 1) More movement on making his grips worse, you don't have to necessarily peel the grip entirely, but you should endeavor to do things to make it worse such as adjusting your gi and establishing counter grips 2) Uranagi dudes with lovely turn throws. 3) more aggression, it seems as if the dude took the lead on literally all of your exchanges, and while that is fine to a degree at lower levels, at higher levels its basically required and at lower levels it gives you a decently big advantage. *although refs in combat sports are notoriously capricious or stupid or blind. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 19:33
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Defenestrategy posted:Ill post about match one a bit later, but match two was excellent, osoto maki komi directly into osaekomi. It didnt seem that uki was trying to escape though or didnt know how to escape and was just ineffectually playing with your far arm. I assume you had close to camera arm around hip and the far arm around head? For as unstable as that pin was it really didnt seem that guy was trying to escape, I would have moved to kesa or north south instead of trying to pin him with a self crucifix/reverse cradle kinda deal. The cradle works fine imo, it's the bas rutten neck crank, but he hooked the wrong leg for it lol. You want the near leg to stop them from turning towards you and escaping out the back door.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:45
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Mechafunkzilla posted:The cradle works fine imo, it's the bas rutten neck crank, but he hooked the wrong leg for it lol. You want the near leg to stop them from turning towards you and escaping out the back door. Please post if you can find it, I love new neck cranks.
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Nov 2, 2023 19:48
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Defenestrategy posted:Please post if you can find it, I love new neck cranks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJPFzv5MeWo
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Nov 2, 2023 19:50
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Thanks for the write up! That's fantastic, and I didn't see or understand all of that, so thanks again. The ref is my head Sensei, the gym owner, Diane Maganaro, though she focuses on teaching the kids and so I've learned most of my Judo from Mitchell Greer, one of her top students. She's the highest ranked(Certified?) Ref in the state, I forget the level but it apparently required her to go somewhere and get audited or tested. I do think she stands people up pretty briskly, like when he basically didn't know how to attack the turtle, but regarding the long time he spent in toketa, he bought himself some time by slapping on a paper cutter (you can actually hear me make an agent smith gurgle); that's why I switched from lightly holding him down to framing him off of me. Incidentally, aside from following through to a pin I intentionally only use newaza to get stood back up; I've been doing BJJ for about five years now and I don't think it really helps me to use ne waza on someone in the Judo Novice when they feel like maybe a one stripe white belt ((except for the athletic green belt that won by pinning me in kami shiho lmao)), so I just use my much higher skill to force us back up. I was mostly resting then because they dude was shaking effort while in my half guard and I wanted him to get tired. The seeming sacrifice throw was, I think, a very poorly executed sasae, whoops. I use sumi gaeshi, but not in that circumstance, whereas I use Sasae a lot. Edit: I've used a variation of pin a lot in BJJ and can generally hold down white and blue belts with it, I had a kind of over hook on his arm and can't pull away unless he can pull the arm out. Generally in bjj I lay on the arm with my ribs to increase the pressure and start looking for arm locks; I can't recall why i laid like that in the tournament, maybe just a generally degraded decision making because of the circumstances, but I distinctly recall that he did basically nothing to escape, he didn't even start gently pushing on my shoulders untill it was too late. They throw out the hackey sack when the pin has been long enough. I also think the judges overruled the ref and called the throw ippon retroactively. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 19:51
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This is insane, I'm gonna play around with it when I get healed. Jack B Nimble posted:She's the highest ranked(Certified?) Ref in the state, I forget the level but it apparently required her to go somewhere and get audited or tested. Oh then if you could do me a favor for my own education and ask how you're supposed to score when it looks like everyone just kinda stumbled over each other. Not second guessing their decision at the moment, but just curious how that exchange was counted. I also didn't notice the paper cutter happening, but I did hear the noise and I assumed it was the person coughing earlier in the tape, so I guess that's fair if he was making a [poor] submission attempt that she let it ride for a bit longer. From my POV I just thought he was stuck and not doing anything. In my opinion you shouldn't play down your newaza against your opponents, It's not like you're abusing it like my national level bjj coach who picks on the local judo club by being a green belt who fights opposing black belts by intentionally using sacrifice throws in randori which will either get him ippon, wazari, or get him to the floor so he can submit them or pin them quickly. So long as you at least ATTEMPT to play the game its on your opponents to study all parts of judo, not just the slamming your opponents kinda thing.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:18
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My understanding is that it's based on who the ref thinks initiated an attack. So if I do a bad sasea, pull you and me both down, there's no score for anyone. If I'm falling from one of your attacks and turn my fall into a last ditch sacrifice throw or sweep, as my BJJ professors are so good at, that doesn't help me because I didn't initiate a sacrifice throw, you initiated your own attack first. That might seen counter to her ruling then but either she thought he made me fall first or he actually did and I don't see it. But it's supposed to be whoever initiated. Edit: regarding me not using my ground game, yeah, I could see myself switching it on more next time; this was only my third judo tournament and I really do feel like I've turned a bit of a corner, I know I look hesitant and slow in it but believe me, I'm scrappy doo compared to before. Edit: you know, I guess she's right actually, because if I get shoved at the same I decide to lift my leg for an ashi waza, and I fall over, that's him initiating a throw. Maybe the easiest in the world, and maybe it wouldn't have worked if I hadn't decided to stand on one leg and lean backwards, but it counts. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 20:27
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Defenestrategy posted:is yuko a thing in competition? Not anymore, just ippon and waza-ari.
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Nov 2, 2023 20:57
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Also remember that judo officiation is a team of three - one ref on the mat and two on the side with monitors, where I am. If the two side judges agree on a ruling different from the on-mat's, that overrules the on-mat decision (two out of three). That gives more perspectives on who initiated what.
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Nov 2, 2023 22:59
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Yeah, that actually happened in the second video; that extended arm wave motion means he's reversing himself. That might also be what the hackey sack is, though I saw them use it a lot in pins.
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Nov 3, 2023 03:06
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I think my knees are hypermobile or something cause someone put me in a halfguard lockdown ajd I got a hammy pop cause my lower leg went forward super far. Oh well a week off aint gonna kill anybody
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Nov 6, 2023 00:25
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Buschmaki posted:I think my knees are hypermobile or something cause someone put me in a halfguard lockdown ajd I got a hammy pop cause my lower leg went forward super far. Oh well a week off aint gonna kill anybody The Lockdown is an interesting footnote in history to me, the place I first started doing jits was pretty isolated from the wider grappling community for various reasons, so their rolling style was a very very old school system, still probably is in fact, where it's very much pass from kneeling using pressure and finish from mount or the back and if you're feeling spicy you can play attacks from side control or north south, and if you where super spicy you could even do. AN ANKLE LOCK. Being a goony goon when I started jits I realized that I could just look this grappling poo poo up on the internet and study outside of being in class, this was 2012ish I want to say. This is when I learned the demon that was THE LOCKDOWN, and THE ELECTRIC CHAIR! Long story short used it, abused it, got talked down to for using such a dangerous move, and that the lockdown can injure anyone at a moments notice. Now I'm a neck cranking, toe holding, heel hooking, spinal locking son of a gun WOO! and honestly I have had yet to actually injure anyone outside of a weirdo who wouldn't tap to a backpack anklelock because I was just a blue belt and he the superior purple belt couldn't believe he could be tapped while on someones back. Also, drat, everyone taking injuries over the last couple weeks.
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Nov 6, 2023 00:50
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The lockdown seems to be one of the only parts of the 10P system that made much of a splash in more traditional BJJ schools around the time you mentioned--I would guess that's because it doesn't require the extreme flexibility that rubber guard does, and it "works" insofar as it can be used to survive/stall from a flattened-out bottom half guard without a lot of specialized training. My experience has been that people who aren't very familiar with it don't appreciate the fact that it does entangle *both* people's legs and are more likely than they are in most positions to try flailing around to make something happen, from both the top and bottom positions. But speaking of top position, turns out it works even better from there! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwwIfCAA7Zc
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Nov 7, 2023 18:16
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Nestharken posted:The lockdown seems to be one of the only parts of the 10P system that made much of a splash in more traditional BJJ schools around the time you mentioned--I would guess that's because it doesn't require the extreme flexibility that rubber guard does, and it "works" insofar as it can be used to survive/stall from a flattened-out bottom half guard without a lot of specialized training. I think the lockdown is a very good introduction to rolling systematically, because it's a pretty dead simple system, because you don't really need to know a lot of rules or techniques. From the offensive end, need either double unders or same side underhook. Once attained, either yeet your opponent or go to your knees. From the defensive end, never allow opponent to posture, never allow opponent same side underhook. Any dufus can do it, unfortunately people get really really good at posturing and cross facing as they get better at jits so its efficacy goes down pretty sharpish imo.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:43
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I think using lockdown as a stalling position gives it a bad rap. It's an offensive system. Old school (foot grab) sweep, electric chair sweep, stomp to butterfly, go to dogfight, etc. There's a bunch of options from there. You can do all of that from a traditional half as well, but the lockdown leg positioning makes it easier especially when you don't have the friction of a gi.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:53
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In case it was unclear, I wasn't trying to imply that the lockdown was ineffective or anything (I've rolled with people who use it quite well), just that some people never seem to progress past the "hold on for dear life and maybe flail around a little bit" part in a way that I don't see with many other positions.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:54
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I trained at a Machado school when lockdown was the hip new thing. Jean Jacque came through and showed us all how to beat it. Relatively easy if they're just holding on and have tunnel-vision on that one position. For a good few years after, we were slicing through 10p style half guards like it was nothing, often to their total confusion to how we were doing this. Knowing JJ a little bit, I'm pretty sure it was a macro strategy to troll Eddy. These days, with the number of years since those days and how fast information spreads, lockdown is just kind of another thing people do.
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Nov 7, 2023 21:20
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