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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Bloody Mayhem posted:

My parents aren’t my landlords. I just live in a city with very unaffordable housing. I’m not broke, I just don’t have “buy a house/condo” money. I’m locked in at a very reasonable rent since I’ve been here five years, no move expected even on the long term. My landlords are as cool as landlords can be (not greedy and generally responsive), and are fine with home improvement.

I don't think anyone meant this in a derogatory way - just a "make sure you understand you're throwing money into your landlords pockets and they could get mad and make you pay to put it back how you found it." If your landlords were your parents it's pretty easy to get permission, vs a MegaCorp who doesn't even like the fact that you're allowed to live in the unit you're renting.

I would strip the paint and repaint it in situ. Generally you're allowed to paint, and if you've been there 5 years (in California) they can't charge you for the state of the paint on move-out anyway.

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Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Yeah it’s more a liability thing that anything. If you’re cool spending the money to improve something you won’t make back that’s your choice and genuinely is fine if you’re cool with it, but you may do all that work and spend all that money for the landlord to say they don’t like the trim you picked or the paint you chose and then you’re paying twice. Just make sure that if you want to go forward with this you get them to agree to it all on paper

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Opopanax posted:

the paint you chose

Remember the useful life of paint! 2 years is pretty standard for an apartment. 2yrs 1day and that paint is worthless. They could try to argue 5 years but I doubt it. Never pay for paint as a renter unless you're there exactly a year and absolutely WRECK it.

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme
As part of a renovation, the flooring is being changed in one of our closets. It was stained hardwood, and we asked the contractors to save as much as they could in case we need it for fixing up other rooms in the future. We wound up with a pile of wood that has nails like this sticking out. The nailheads (indicated by a red arrow) are between the surface layer and the layer beneath it, so I can't just yank them out:



Is it worth my time to try and cut off or grind down the nails into little nubs? Or do they need to be pulled out somehow? I'm ignorant about how flooring is installed, so I have no idea what would be required of the wood if it gets reused. In any case, I have a pile of wood with nails sticking out in every direction that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later, so any guidance would be appreciated!

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!
I want to remove a 1 gang box from a wall with wooden paneling without damaging wall. Is attempting to use an oscillating multi tool to cut the nails then pull it straight out with pliers my best bet?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Zugzwang posted:

As part of a renovation, the flooring is being changed in one of our closets. It was stained hardwood, and we asked the contractors to save as much as they could in case we need it for fixing up other rooms in the future. We wound up with a pile of wood that has nails like this sticking out. The nailheads (indicated by a red arrow) are between the surface layer and the layer beneath it, so I can't just yank them out:



Is it worth my time to try and cut off or grind down the nails into little nubs? Or do they need to be pulled out somehow? I'm ignorant about how flooring is installed, so I have no idea what would be required of the wood if it gets reused. In any case, I have a pile of wood with nails sticking out in every direction that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later, so any guidance would be appreciated!

Hit the point of the nail with a hammer to back it out of the tongue. It will then fall out/you will be able to pull it out by hand.


Calidus posted:

I want to remove a 1 gang box from a wall with wooden paneling without damaging wall. Is attempting to use an oscillating multi tool to cut the nails then pull it straight out with pliers my best bet?

That is in fact one of those perfect uses of a multitool where nothing else really gives you the same results.

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme

Motronic posted:

Hit the point of the nail with a hammer to back it out of the tongue. It will then fall out/you will be able to pull it out by hand.
They're flat, thin nails and most of them are bent to poo poo, unfortunately. Tapping them with a hammer just makes them curl up or flatten against the wood. I can use pliers to twist off all but a few mm though, and I'm wondering if that's good enough.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Zugzwang posted:

They're flat, thin nails and most of them are bent to poo poo, unfortunately. Tapping them with a hammer just makes them curl up or flatten against the wood. I can use pliers to twist off all but a few mm though, and I'm wondering if that's good enough.

Cut em off. Oscillating tool should make short work of it.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Pair of end nippers with long handles (for leverage) would also do it, or if you really want to go nuclear, an angle grinder would trivialize it. But yeah, cut 'em off as close to the wood as you can reasonably manage. The remaining bits of nail may slightly damage the subfloor when you reinstall them, but it shouldn't be serious.

Jenkl
Aug 5, 2008

This post needs at least three times more shit!
Two wires, a 14/3 and 14/2, run below some (4?) joists (12" OC due to long span). They are the last unresolved contents of a bulkhead that I've removed.

The obvious solution is to notch the joists, and put protector plates over the gap since the wires will be close to the surface.

Is this dumb? I'd rather not touch my joists, even if it seems to be within tolerance (outer 1/3, < 1/6).

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Just to double check, the cables are still in use? And re-running them isn't a possibility?

Jenkl
Aug 5, 2008

This post needs at least three times more shit!
Yes to both, unfortunately.

I suspect I might be able to get holes instead of notches if I cut the wire and add junction boxes as it will be in an accessible (cumbersome but non-destructive) location, but I'm not sure that's materially better - and it's definitely more annoying.

The Top G
Jul 19, 2023

by Fluffdaddy

Zugzwang posted:

They're flat, thin nails and most of them are bent to poo poo, unfortunately. Tapping them with a hammer just makes them curl up or flatten against the wood. I can use pliers to twist off all but a few mm though, and I'm wondering if that's good enough.

Paradoxically, finish-type nails like this leave a smoother finish when you pull them out through the backside. Backing the nails out will blowout the surrounding wood & finish, leaving a much larger defect.

The traditional tool for this is a pair of nippers or pincers, which are not expensive, but you can do it just fine with any pair or pliers. Grab the nail and lever the tip of the pliers against the wood to pull the nail, reposition, and repeat

The Top G
Jul 19, 2023

by Fluffdaddy

Jenkl posted:

Yes to both, unfortunately.

I suspect I might be able to get holes instead of notches if I cut the wire and add junction boxes as it will be in an accessible (cumbersome but non-destructive) location, but I'm not sure that's materially better - and it's definitely more annoying.

Holes are faster than notching but both are fine. I understand your reluctance to cut into your joists, running the wires along the wall and doing a small soffit can be an option to consider.

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme

H110Hawk posted:

Cut em off. Oscillating tool should make short work of it.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Pair of end nippers with long handles (for leverage) would also do it, or if you really want to go nuclear, an angle grinder would trivialize it. But yeah, cut 'em off as close to the wood as you can reasonably manage. The remaining bits of nail may slightly damage the subfloor when you reinstall them, but it shouldn't be serious.

The Top G posted:

Paradoxically, finish-type nails like this leave a smoother finish when you pull them out through the backside. Backing the nails out will blowout the surrounding wood & finish, leaving a much larger defect.

The traditional tool for this is a pair of nippers or pincers, which are not expensive, but you can do it just fine with any pair or pliers. Grab the nail and lever the tip of the pliers against the wood to pull the nail, reposition, and repeat
Thanks, I ordered a pair of nippers based on this. I don't have an oscillating tool and don't really need one at the moment, so we'll see if the cheaper option works first.

Not Wolverine
Jul 1, 2007
Thanks to Home Depot selling my information to a third party, I watched a sales pitch for $9,990 worth of water softener, reverse osmosis, ozone generator and a 5 year supply of soap from a brand not sold in any store because it sucks (salesman exact words, "if you don't have a water softener this soap won't work"). I'm livid that Home Depot thinks I would be stupid enough to ever buy that.

That said, Lowes has water softeners for $300-400, and under sink reverse osmosis for a couple hundred, not sure about the ozone generator but I think I can survive without that for a little while. Are water softeners a good decision? All my faucets have a poo poo load of build up. My water is pretty hard according to the salesman test and what all of my neighbors say about the water. I think there could be some value to what the salesman said, but definitely not $10k worth of value.

Are there disadvantages to water softeners? I believe I will need a reverse osmosis system for my kitchen sink andy fridge since i think drinking soft water is unhealthy.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
https://ordspub.epa.gov/ords/safewater/f?p=136:102::::::

Lookup your local water quality report and make decisions based on that.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

And if the decision is "yes, water softener" do not buy a $300 joe homeowner special from home depot. They are garbage.

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007

Water softeners are the only way to achieve rich person hair.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Not Wolverine posted:

Are there disadvantages to water softeners? I believe I will need a reverse osmosis system for my kitchen sink andy fridge since i think drinking soft water is unhealthy.
When I was a child living in a hard-water area, most houses had separate unsoftened water piping run to the kitchen sink. (This was before icemakers and also before dinosaurs). The water still tasted weird when you brushed your teeth, although I hope that's changed.

Dr. Lunchables
Dec 27, 2012

IRL DEBUFFED KOBOLD



It really depends on the metals and mineral content of your water to begin with. Softeners are not necessary in all cases.

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!

kreeningsons posted:

Water softeners are the only way to achieve rich person hair.
Surely I could just steal a rich person's hair?

Not Wolverine
Jul 1, 2007
Thanks for the information, I found the CCR, and it does say chlorine is 3.4 (softener guy said anything above 1.5 is bad), hardness is 130 out of 400 and TDS is 380 out of 500. So, I still think it's bad but not terrible, I'm just not going to have rich people hair. Also my city is building a new water treatment plant.

Running reverse osmosis to my kitchen sink and fridge is possible, I have a pex manifold I'm sure I could tap into somehow.

Motronic posted:

And if the decision is "yes, water softener" do not buy a $300 joe homeowner special from home depot. They are garbage.
What is a realistic price for a decent quality water softener? The softener alone (well, plus all the soap, install fee etc) was going to be $6500 and if that is the price then I'm not doing it.

I'm absolutely not buying a Home Depot softener, I want one from Lowes. After 9 years with Home Depot I don't really want to go back in there store again, they gave my personal information away and I got a cal the very day after I ordered a dishwasher. I cancelled the dishwasher and bought the same unit from Lowes instead since Home Depot was unwilling to do anything. Even better, Lowes had a $100 off $800 or more appliance purchases and I told Home Depot about my experience and they didn't care at all to even try to price match Lowes.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Not Wolverine posted:

What is a realistic price for a decent quality water softener? The softener alone (well, plus all the soap, install fee etc) was going to be $6500 and if that is the price then I'm not doing it.

Like most things water treatment related, they were trying to rip you off. A standard quality media tank with the control head everyone uses along with a brine tank can be had for under $1300. It shouldn't cost more than $2k all in installed including enough salt to last you for your first year.

Of course, you're not likely to find a plumber who's willing to do this depending on where you live because they're all in on the scam too.

(this is the kind of thing I'm talking about : https://www.supplyhouse.com/Pentair-35961-Whole-House-Water-Softening-System-1-5-Cubic-Foot-3-4-NPT-11-9-GPM That is not a recommendation, but an example.)

Not Wolverine
Jul 1, 2007

Motronic posted:

Like most things water treatment related, they were trying to rip you off. A standard quality media tank with the control head everyone uses along with a brine tank can be had for under $1300. It shouldn't cost more than $2k all in installed including enough salt to last you for your first year.

Of course, you're not likely to find a plumber who's willing to do this depending on where you live because they're all in on the scam too.

(this is the kind of thing I'm talking about : https://www.supplyhouse.com/Pentair-35961-Whole-House-Water-Softening-System-1-5-Cubic-Foot-3-4-NPT-11-9-GPM That is not a recommendation, but an example.)
Thanks! I could swing $2k, but like I said, my city is building a new treatment plant right now, maybe the water will be better. I know one thing, when I grew up in Texas or visit my relatives I have (*would have if I wasn't bald) rich people hair after I shower.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
I hate showering in softened water. I know your skin and hair aren’t “supposed to” squeak but by God I’m not clean until they do

wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!
Which is the stuff that makes you feel all slimy when you try to rinse the soap off, not to mention takes forever to actually get the soap off?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

wesleywillis posted:

Which is the stuff that makes you feel all slimy when you try to rinse the soap off, not to mention takes forever to actually get the soap off?

Soap doesn't mix with hard water as well. So it's less effective in hard water because the calcium/magnesium is on your skin and also just not mixing with the soap. So you can rinse off fast.

That "slimy" feeling is.....you. That's what your skin feels like when it's not covered in minerals. Because you skin has/excretes natural oils.

None of this is a huge deal and/or greatly impacts how clean you get unless we're talking real out of sorts mineral/solids content.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


wesleywillis posted:

Which is the stuff that makes you feel all slimy when you try to rinse the soap off, not to mention takes forever to actually get the soap off?
Lye.

pmchem
Jan 22, 2010


Motronic posted:

Soap doesn't mix with hard water as well. So it's less effective in hard water because the calcium/magnesium is on your skin and also just not mixing with the soap. So you can rinse off fast.

That "slimy" feeling is.....you. That's what your skin feels like when it's not covered in minerals. Because you skin has/excretes natural oils.

None of this is a huge deal and/or greatly impacts how clean you get unless we're talking real out of sorts mineral/solids content.

your top line is about the exact opposite of the actual chemistry involved here. hard water loves interacting with soap. soap is amphipathic; it has both hydrophobic and hydrophilic groups, and the hydrophilic groups in particular can also interact with water-dissolved ions.

the slimy feeling is indeed still the soap. hard water rinses away soap faster than soft water (rinsing is best when mixing!). if someone uses the same amount of soap in both hard/soft water environments, they're probably using more soap than needed in soft water environments. you might note that your skin doesn't feel slimy when you rinse in soft water before applying soap! well unless you're some really greasy or unclean person, can't help you there.

source: am a chemist, also USGS https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/water-qa-why-cant-i-rinse-soap-my-hands-0

wesleywillis
Dec 30, 2016

SUCK A MALE CAMEL'S DICK WITH MIRACLE WHIP!!
Uuuuhhhhhh, yeah.
I was at a hotel this summer, and when I soaped up it felt all slimy and went to rinse it off, took forever and a bit. Despite the goon stereotype I shower daily.

Sooo.. soft water then? Perhaps water thats too soft?

Dr. Lunchables
Dec 27, 2012

IRL DEBUFFED KOBOLD



Yeah, just soft water. You need a lot less soap than you think you do.

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe



wesleywillis posted:

Which is the stuff that makes you feel all slimy when you try to rinse the soap off, not to mention takes forever to actually get the soap off?

dishwasher detergent

Gaaah it's tough to hit a hotel with really soft water. Come out of the shower feeling like I dipped in salad oil.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
Soft water sucks more than enough for showering, but also make sure you’re not using Dove, which isn’t even soap but a “lotion bar”

kreeningsons
Jan 2, 2007


Thanks little guy

Not Wolverine
Jul 1, 2007
So I'm starting to think the scam was really elaborate. At first, I assumed the science might be true just a ridiculously priced product.

The first demonstration was washing my hands using a bar of soap, and rinsing one hand with soft water and t.other with hard water, allegedly my skin felt softer because hard water minerals were clogging my pores and preventing my skins natural oils from doing their job. The truth looks more like the soft water was not rinsing off all of the soap.

Salesman also claimed store bought soaps include softening agents to help the soap work better, but the chemist in the thread basically said the exact opposite. This explains why I would need to buy custom soaps with my water softener, they are "concentrated" and thus need to be watered down like 10:1 before use (yeah I'm too lazy for that). More likely they probably just want it watered down so that I would use less soap.

The next demonstration involves shoving a corner of one of my clean towels into a flask of water. I can't remember the full magic trick but I think the hard water bottle made a lot of bubbles and changed color because my hard water can't rinse all of the soap out of my towel, but I think the logic there is the opposite of what the chemist said.

Next, I was asked to hold a small amount of water in my mouth to show chlorine absorbing into my body. After holding it for about 30 seconds, a chemical was added which would make chlorine cloudy, original tap water turned cloudy but the water I had in my mouth was not cloudy, allegedly because my body absorbed all the chlorine. I'm not sure how this trick works but I don't believe it was a demonstration of my body actually absorbing chlorine.

Pulling a rabbit out of tap was a genuine magic trick to try to con me into signing the paperwork that very night without googling the price of water softeners.

I'm not certain I need or want a water softener now. I definitely would like to find a way to cut down on all the scale on my sinks, appliances and dishes, and I think a water softener might help with that. I also want my hands to be less dry, I wash my hands A LOT (dog slober + kids constantly asking for snack after snack + snacks for myself etc) and have very dry skin, but I'm not sure a $2000 water softener system is the right solution for my dry hands. Similarly, in the summer I like to swim a lot, and my HOA pool uses salt, and I think my skin feels dry afterwards, is this how my skin will feel after a water softener? I showed after swimming, but often I think my skin feels even more dry after showering.

Dr. Lunchables
Dec 27, 2012

IRL DEBUFFED KOBOLD



What the gently caress?

pmchem
Jan 22, 2010


Not Wolverine posted:

The next demonstration involves shoving a corner of one of my clean towels into a flask of water. I can't remember the full magic trick but I think the hard water bottle made a lot of bubbles and changed color because my hard water can't rinse all of the soap out of my towel, but I think the logic there is the opposite of what the chemist said.

Next, I was asked to hold a small amount of water in my mouth to show chlorine absorbing into my body. After holding it for about 30 seconds, a chemical was added which would make chlorine cloudy, original tap water turned cloudy but the water I had in my mouth was not cloudy, allegedly because my body absorbed all the chlorine. I'm not sure how this trick works but I don't believe it was a demonstration of my body actually absorbing chlorine.

i haven't really been following your softener posts but just lol at this parlor trick stuff

also

Dr. Lunchables posted:

What the gently caress?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Use a rinse aid in your dishwasher to keep scale off. It's just citric acid, basically; it helps to dissolve minerals. You can clean off scale on your other stuff the same way, with a weak acid.

Swimming is gonna make your skin feel kinda dry, yep. That happens even in places that don't have hard water. Take a shower after swimming.

Needless to say, if you're allowing a salesperson to try to sell you something, they're going to use every trick they can think of to try to close that sale.

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IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Dr. Lunchables posted:

What the gently caress?

Nah it's cool just put this in your mouth

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