Nenonen posted:Resolve doesn't save you from atrocities. Like if I realized that my kitchen was on fire, I can't just decide to be stoic in the face of flames unless I have an extinguisher or some other means of fighting the fire. Well not with that attitude.
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Nov 25, 2023 19:19
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Xiahou Dun posted:Is that the "same" population, or were they effectively doing atrocities to one population to scare the other. Wouldn't that be more analogous to how the Blitz affected idk Crete rather than the UK? I guess the relative disunity of premodern states (or even the tendency for some areas to just be full of a bunch of small independent states with no pretense to unity at all) would play into that. In ancient and medieval wars, you could get a lot of cities deciding independently which side they'll back, and vassals drifting apart from their liege s or taking the opportunity to assert themselves separately. I think you get much less of that when there's a shared national identity so that individual areas are less likely to sell out eachother. Maybe also when the population is mobile enough that they'll have direct connections with people in other areas. Nenonen posted:Resolve doesn't save you from atrocities. Like if I realized that my kitchen was on fire, I can't just decide to be stoic in the face of flames unless I have an extinguisher or some other means of fighting the fire. Yeah but you'll be ready to throw a pan at the next guy who tries bringing in a candelabra.
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Nov 25, 2023 19:41
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah but you'll be ready to throw a pan at the next guy who tries bringing in a candelabra. Also it kind of argues against surrendering to the people who did that to you because, if they’re that vicious now, how bad will they be if you are no longer able to resist? It’s no good surrendering to the guy who did X bad thing if you’re convinced he’s so evil he’ll cheerfully do Y worse thing if you let him. Even “they’ll kill us all if we don’t” isn’t a good enough reason to surrender if you know the result would be “kill us all more painfully anyway”.
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Nov 25, 2023 19:50
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MadDogMike posted:Also it kind of argues against surrendering to the people who did that to you because, if they’re that vicious now, how bad will they be if you are no longer able to resist? It’s no good surrendering to the guy who did X bad thing if you’re convinced he’s so evil he’ll cheerfully do Y worse thing if you let him. Even “they’ll kill us all if we don’t” isn’t a good enough reason to surrender if you know the result would be “kill us all more painfully anyway”. Usually in these situations people simply flee, or submit if they can't. Fighting the flames with your fists is stupid.
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Nov 25, 2023 19:59
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Nenonen posted:Usually in these situations people simply flee, or submit if they can't. Fighting the flames with your fists is stupid. Submitting to the flames? Hot drat, that's bleak. I think at this point, the original analogy has been lost in the darkness somewhere. A home invasion would have been better than a burning kitchen, anyway.
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Nov 25, 2023 20:27
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Glah posted:What would Agent Orange be classified as in this context? I guess it was not a chemical weapon in a sense of using it to directly kill the enemy, but USA used shitload of it as part of herbicidal warfare so it was still a chemical and a weapon... I did some research of this at one point for a course and the issue with the herbicides (orange, white, blue and so on) was the dioxins that were side products of the production process. Different batches of the same agent had various levels of dioxins and if my memory recollects, uS military staff doing manual spraying were also heavily affected.
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Nov 25, 2023 20:43
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The new Napoleon film by Ridley Scott has been doing rounds for it's historical accuracy. https://twitter.com/KKriegeBlog/status/1728292540770877723/photo/2 I assume slapping a scope on a rifle from that period would be worse than useless. But when did scoped rifles start to be employed by armies in noticeable capacity? WW1 or earlier?
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Nov 25, 2023 20:53
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Laughing Zealot posted:
American Civil War. A Napoleonic war guy could in theory get a telescopic sight if they were really rich and didn't mind risking a fractured eye socket - the first versions were really more for aristocrats going hunting. In the 1850's you get a sight that is practically usable and can be produced in numbers and the ACW is where snipers become a persistent battlefield threat.
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Nov 25, 2023 21:11
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Alchenar posted:American Civil War. Crimean War probably. For a first use of scopes, might not have been commonplace but existed.
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Nov 25, 2023 21:16
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Nenonen posted:Crimean War probably. For a first use of scopes, might not have been commonplace but existed. scopes were first used in 1630s
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Nov 25, 2023 21:24
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Laughing Zealot posted:The new Napoleon film by Ridley Scott has been doing rounds for it's historical accuracy. One of the many many stupid things about that movie is that set up a BETTER thing to do earlier in the movie and then don't do it with the actual line! In his first battle at Tourlon, his horse is killed very graphically by a cannon ball. After the battle he comes back and retrieves the cannon ball from the horses corpse and throws it to someone and says "muffle muffle bad sound mix". This is an entire scene from a movie that clearly needs to be 4-12 hours long and they spend the time to set this line up. Then at Waterloo the camera focus on the loading of the same sized cannon ball into British cannons (6 pounder I think? Probably the wrong cannons anyway knowing this movie). The sniper tells a perpetually frowning Wellington that he has got Napoleon in his sights and permission to fire. At artillery range mind you. Wellington says ""It is not the business of commanders to be firing upon one another". And at and the end of the battle, the Sniper shoots Napoleons iconic hat with a hole in it, convincing him that the day is lost. When the movie had gone out of it's way to set up a cannon ball shot! This is Suicide Squad level of editing incompetence in not paying off what the movie set itself up, when it could have used the actual more famous line! In conclusion, go watch Waterloo on youtube instead. Or Sharp's Waterloo which has better infantry combat with no more than 20 men on screen at a time. Comstar fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Nov 25, 2023 |
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Nov 25, 2023 21:26
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Comstar posted:One of the many many stupid things about that movie is that set up a BETTER thing to do earlier in the movie and then don't do it with the actual line! does nappy at least talk with a comical french accent and drop unnecessary french words and phrases?
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Nov 25, 2023 21:28
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It's on Apple+ the same day it was released in Theaters, which gives a big indication that Apple does not thing much of the movie.ChubbyChecker posted:does nappy at least talk with a comical french accent and drop unnecessary french words and phrases? No he does not. There is one scene where 2 characters you've never met and never see again discuss diplomacy over food (why btw happens so many times. And means you can't understand what the actors are saying) and they switch to subtitles for 1 line each. After speaking English the entire time. And I think one of them is the English Ambassador!
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Nov 25, 2023 21:31
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I’m gonna watch the 4 hour directors cut at home and love it
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Nov 25, 2023 21:32
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Comstar posted:It's on Apple+ the same day it was released in Theaters, which gives a big indication that Apple does not thing much of the movie. pitiful
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Nov 25, 2023 21:33
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the movie sounds insanely bad
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Nov 25, 2023 21:34
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:the movie sounds insanely bad Oh it is worth watching to see all the un-historical and hysterical changes to history R.Scott has made. But I wouldn't recommend it for spending $50-100 to go see it at a theater. You also get to see Russian Cossack's use man-portable(!!?) mortars attacking a French supply convoy like it's 1942 partisans attacking a German supply line. Apart from the uniforms it would fit right in to a WW2 movie. I'm not kidding to say it's like watching a comedy that's missing a laugh track. Bill and Ted's Napoleon was more accurate.
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Nov 25, 2023 21:42
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There's an old Russian comedy clip about how a student with a limited understanding of history recounts the Battle of Borodino while the actors reenact his version of events, the new movie sounds like an extended version of that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNdLj8RqUVQ
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Nov 25, 2023 21:52
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Comstar posted:Oh it is worth watching to see all the un-historical and hysterical changes to history R.Scott has made. But I wouldn't recommend it for spending $50-100 to go see it at a theater. hand mortars were also a 17th c invention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_mortar
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Nov 25, 2023 21:54
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Comstar posted:In conclusion, go watch Waterloo on youtube instead. Or Sharp's Waterloo which has better infantry combat with no more than 20 men on screen at a time. In conclusion, go read the chapter(s) about Waterloo in Les Miserables? 
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Nov 25, 2023 22:09
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mllaneza posted:It was space navies. And the million rowboat strategy was developed by an AI.
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Nov 25, 2023 22:12
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Comstar posted:After speaking English the entire time. And I think one of them is the English Ambassador! I mean the British ambassador would have been using French, because it was the language the European upper class twits used at the time. Not sure if this is the logical way to convey it in a film (which I have not seen), though.
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Nov 25, 2023 22:38
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ChubbyChecker posted:does nappy at least talk with a comical french accent and drop unnecessary french words and phrases? Picturing David Suchet as Napoleon. Played exactly like Poirot.
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Nov 25, 2023 23:09
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Elissimpark posted:Picturing David Suchet as Napoleon. Played exactly like Poirot. perfection
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Nov 25, 2023 23:21
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The historical Napoleon was mocked by his contemporaries for his thick Italian accent, although it grew softer as he got older.
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Nov 25, 2023 23:45
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Apparently their military advisor was some rando ex-special forces guy, because that's what gives you expertise on the napoleonic battlefield. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/25/napoleon-film-ridley-scott-critics-miitary-expert-battle-scenes pictured, napoleonic warfare expert Fangz fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 25, 2023 |
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Nov 25, 2023 23:47
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Fangz posted:Apparently their military advisor was some rando ex-special forces guy, because that's what gives you expertise on the napoleonic battlefield. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/25/napoleon-film-ridley-scott-critics-miitary-expert-battle-scenes high cran operateur
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Nov 25, 2023 23:55
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What does a Napoleonic War expert usually look like?
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Nov 26, 2023 00:03
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Subjunctive posted:What does a Napoleonic War expert usually look like? Depends... are we talking of an expert of Napoleonic War or a War expert who is Napoleonic?
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Nov 26, 2023 00:07
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Nov 26, 2023 00:18
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Subjunctive posted:What does a Napoleonic War expert usually look like? https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1728478374815760548
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Nov 26, 2023 00:33
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Wouldn't be a good grognard cosplay if they didn't grumble
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Nov 26, 2023 00:41
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Scott explicitly stated he did not care if it was historically accurate and it’s pretty clear from the previews and reviews it’s focused on presenting a view on the relationship between Napoleon and Josephine. Does this excuse historical inaccuracy and blatant disregard for fact? Probably not but also I’ve been getting good laughs at grogs mad across the history and wargaming communities
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Nov 26, 2023 00:47
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FastestGunAlive posted:Scott explicitly stated he did not care if it was historically accurate and it’s pretty clear from the previews and reviews it’s focused on presenting a view on the relationship between Napoleon and Josephine. Does this excuse historical inaccuracy and blatant disregard for fact? Probably not but also I’ve been getting good laughs at grogs mad across the history and wargaming communities I think what annoys me about a director taking that attitude is that it implies that you can only do one or the other. You could make a film focusing on the relationship between Napoleon and Josephine and have cool combat scenes that are accurate at least at surface level. Like, I don't care if a film portrays the Old Guard using the wrong pattern muskets in a given battle (that's a lie actually, if I noticed I'd probably care but it wouldn't make me decide it was a bad film). It does bother me if the combat doesn't really even attempt to represent the actual nature of warfare at the time.
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Nov 26, 2023 01:03
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I don’t disagree with you on that tbh Edit: ok, now I see they’re just trolling everyone with this movie after reading that guardian article FastestGunAlive fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 01:07
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Also I understand the portrayal of Josephine and Napoleon's relationship in the movie is terrible anyway
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Nov 26, 2023 01:15
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My primary issue with the film is that it's a Ridley Scott film made in 2023
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Nov 26, 2023 01:53
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I think if Scott wanted to have fun with it, have the scene with the not-Sharpe instead be one where a priggish Wellington has the impudent rifleman flogged for saluting him slightly incorrectly. Have Metternich wear a hitler stache. Go crazy with the script, don't just limit it to cool-looking battles.
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Nov 26, 2023 04:23
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An ahistorical Napoleon film is fine - Gladiator is certainly ahistorical, and I love it - but if Scott is going to go around giving interviews about how quote:“It’s amazing because you’re actually reconstructing the real thing,” Scott said of filming these battle sequences, most of which were shot in various locations around England. “I started to think like Napoleon.” Then I think it's fairer to hold it to a harsher standard of accuracy.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:52
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I'll stick to historically accurate films like the Patriot, thank you very much
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Nov 26, 2023 07:48
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