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I'm hard pressed to find any. Like, I guess there's some unique backstory but it's usually such a slog to read that it doesn't seem interesting, you could just read the wiki summaries. I kinda feel bad for ICE, because the community really bags on him but he and SE are very active with like bookTubers and online stuff, so theres no way he's not aware of it.
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Nov 12, 2023 08:42
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I mean it's more Malazan with worse prose. I don't begrudge ICE the fact that Erikson is an amazing writer. If you just want fun you should read the tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach though.
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Nov 12, 2023 08:47
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Jaxyon posted:I'm hard pressed to find any. Like, I guess there's some unique backstory but it's usually such a slog to read that it doesn't seem interesting, you could just read the wiki summaries. The Path to Ascendancy sounds like it was a big step up in terms of skill
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Nov 12, 2023 08:59
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fez_machine posted:The Path to Ascendancy sounds like it was a big step up in terms of skill It’s still mediocre with what it could have been and still reads like fan fiction. It’s like a bad tv show that you like anyway and totally get it when people rag on it.
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Nov 12, 2023 12:44
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Jaxyon posted:I'm hard pressed to find any. Like, I guess there's some unique backstory but it's usually such a slog to read that it doesn't seem interesting, you could just read the wiki summaries. What about the full story of the death of Laseen? If you skip RotCG then it's just mentioned offhandedly by Quick Ben in Toll the Hounds. I get that The Empire itself takes a back seat in the latter half of the series, but I feel like such a huge, looming character was done dirty by Erickson in that respect.
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Nov 12, 2023 13:15
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I'm impressed by anyone who can remember what happened in which particular book in the series. I read them all back-to-back and it's just one big bucket of things that happened to me.
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Nov 12, 2023 13:46
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McSpankWich posted:What about the full story of the death of Laseen? If you skip RotCG then it's just mentioned offhandedly by Quick Ben in Toll the Hounds. I get that The Empire itself takes a back seat in the latter half of the series, but I feel like such a huge, looming character was done dirty by Erickson in that respect. I feel like Deadhouse Gates was the only time we actually interacted with that character in the series, please correct me if I am wrong. They definitely had a presence and there was a lot of promise there. I was also miffed by how that whole thing went down but there is no reason anyone should be encouraged to read Crimson Guard  Because while CG may add a few things, it does our boy Iron Bars dirty after he was a total babe in Midnight Tides.
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Nov 12, 2023 19:03
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If you think CG did him dirty wait until you get to Stonewielder
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Nov 12, 2023 21:04
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McSpankWich posted:If you think CG did him dirty wait until you get to Stonewielder
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Nov 12, 2023 21:05
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anilEhilated posted:And if you think Stonewielder did him dirty, just wait for Assail. I haven't read OST or Assail but I've only heard bad things and I'm really not interested in where the story left off at the end of Stonewielder. I suppose one day I'll have to finish them but ehhhh
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Nov 12, 2023 21:21
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They're perfectly fine books. They pale in comparison to the main series because the main series is so great. But they're fine with absolutely nothing wrong with them. If you want to nerd out in a fantasy series you can do a whole lot worse.
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Nov 12, 2023 21:43
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Just finished Gardens of the Moon. Which was really good! Not sure I understand the criticism. Did I miss a description who the Azath are or is that something that will be explained later? Based on the title of the next book I’m guessing they will feature more prominently.
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Nov 12, 2023 22:22
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theblackw0lf posted:Just finished Gardens of the Moon. Which was really good! Not sure I understand the criticism. The answer to both is a little more. Although it might change in the books I haven't read. Erickson likes keeping his big magical stuff mysterious so it's unlikely you're going to get a firm grasp on everything just the general idea.
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Nov 12, 2023 22:25
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theblackw0lf posted:Just finished Gardens of the Moon. Which was really good! Not sure I understand the criticism. I liked it too but there are legit criticisms of it in terms of structure, pacing, and writing quality. But the 2nd book is also possibly the best in the series so it suffers by comparison as well.
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Nov 12, 2023 23:35
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On the second book and Mappo was briefly mentioned once(?) in Gardens of the Moon but I can’t remember what was said.
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Nov 12, 2023 23:38
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theblackw0lf posted:On the second book and Mappo was briefly mentioned once(?) in Gardens of the Moon but I can’t remember what was said. Nothing amazing but shows that Mappo has been hanging out with Icarium for quite a while. “The new year,” the alchemist replied. “Past is the Five Tusks. The dawn you see marks the birth of the Year of the Moon’s Tears.” Lord Anomander Rake stiffened. Baruk noticed. “Indeed. An unusual coincidence, though I would put little weight upon it. The titles were devised over a millennium ago, by a visitor to these lands.” When Rake spoke his voice was a ravaged whisper. “Icarium’s gifts. I recognize the style. Five Tusks, Moon’s Tears—the Wheel is his, correct?” Eyes wide, Baruk hissed his surprise between his teeth. A dozen questions struggled to be uttered first, but the Lord continued. “In the future, I’d suggest you heed Icarium’s gifts—all of them. A thousand years is not so long a time, Alchemist. Not so long a time. Icarium last visited me eight hundred years ago, in the company of the Trell Mappo, and Osric—or Osserc, as the local worshipers call him.” Rake smiled bitterly. “Osric and I argued, as I recall, and it was all Brood could do to keep us apart. It was an old argument . . .” His almond eyes shaded into gray. He fell silent, lost in memories.
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Nov 13, 2023 05:03
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theblackw0lf posted:Just finished Gardens of the Moon. Which was really good! Not sure I understand the criticism. I let the Azath wash over me because I didn't comprehend it either, and now that I'm on Deadhouse Gates (not big spoilers but small ones) it's finally been mentioned again about halfway in. So I anticipate it'll become more important soon, given the context of how it comes up.
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Nov 14, 2023 01:02
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About 2/3rds through Deadhouse Gates (Just hit the Deadhouse Gates section), and I think my favorite parts have to do with Felisin. She's so unlikable, yet so fascinating, as well as her dynamic with the others, and it's understandable why she is this way. Hit the part where "her armor cracks, and something beneath it building" and fascinated to see where she goes from here. Edit: oh wow. theblackw0lf fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 01:20
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Felisin is the ultimate litmus test for "can you have empathise with a well written, terrible person?".
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Nov 14, 2023 03:06
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I didn’t understand in chapter 24 of Deadhouse Gates what Felisen meant by i have a daughter now Also Chain of Dogs, man that was rough. Edit: only two chapters in and Memories of Ice is a loving banger so far. That prologue was just lore bomb after lore bomb; and I love the new (and returning) characters. Also I dig the cosmic horror vibe this series has sometimes. Edit: I’ve said “holy poo poo” so many times in these first 100 pages. Edit: this book is blowing my mind. theblackw0lf fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 15, 2023 01:41
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Ok I think I finished actual book 3 and am in to 4, it's a single ebook and there's book titles within these books so I'm moderately confident in this. I still don't know what's happening at all but some of the bits are cool. Some stuff in these books is a loving problem though and I hope it ends soon. They killed my homie whiskeyjack and now there's just rapey people running around. Hoping they'll get past this quickly because it's pretty loving yikes. "Oh the women actually like getting raped!" was not a plot point I needed here.
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Nov 22, 2023 15:39
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Really racing throught the Bonehunters - it's living up to my memory of it as a real cracker. My wife is loving it overall, but not a fan of Heboric - she finds him unremittingly negative and a general downer which, for a series with as much bleakness as this, is quite remarkable to me for it to stand out for her. She was not displeased when he got chopped to bits by those T'lan Imass.dishwasherlove posted:Felisin is the ultimate litmus test for "can you have empathise with a well written, terrible person?". I'm reading the Thomas Covenant books right now and he fits this description to a tee.
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Nov 22, 2023 16:58
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I wouldn't describe anything in Thomas Covenant as "well-written".
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Nov 22, 2023 20:37
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I made it to the part in the first book of Thomas Covenant where he immediately rapes the girl that helps him and noped out.
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Nov 22, 2023 20:47
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imagine dungeons posted:I made it to the part in the first book of Thomas Covenant where he immediately rapes the girl that helps him and noped out.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:58
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Skyl3lazer posted:Ok I think I finished actual book 3 and am in to 4, it's a single ebook and there's book titles within these books so I'm moderately confident in this. I still don't know what's happening at all but some of the bits are cool. Some stuff in these books is a loving problem though and I hope it ends soon.
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Nov 23, 2023 15:59
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snoremac posted:That is from the perspective of the rapist. It's a comment a (soon to raped) woman makes to her to-be rapist.
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Nov 24, 2023 03:42
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Skyl3lazer posted:It's a comment a (soon to raped) woman makes to her to-be rapist.
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Nov 24, 2023 04:33
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Skyl3lazer posted:It's a comment a (soon to raped) woman makes to her to-be rapist. That section is intended to be a very unreliable narrator, and a counter to the noble savage mythos(along with the Barghast). Lots of fans like him(karsa) but if it's because of that section, and not the "society sucks and is exploitive, and I will destroy it" stuff, then I'm VERY wary of those fans. Given all the comments and stuff that SE has said in interviews, facebook, blogs etc, I tend to believe him that he's not trying to glorify sexual violence. Unfortunately, he also doesn't shy away from showing it, which I don't think is strictly necessary. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 23:52
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Yeah - The core conceit of the early Karsa sections is it's from his perspective, and he's a young loving idiot. Stressing (though it shouldn't need to be said) that this isn't intended to excuse or even explain it, because it doesn't; Erikson is just setting you up for (minor spoiler I suppose) the growing realisation as he gets older (spoiler being, he survives to get older!) that he was in fact, a young loving idiot. and (major spoiler, so separating it) we're all waiting to see how that affects the reaction assuming he finally meets his son.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:01
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Jaxyon posted:That section is intended to be a very unreliable narrator, and a counter to the noble savage mythos(along with the Barghast). Lots of fans like him(karsa) but if it's because of that section, and not the "society sucks and is exploitive, and I will destroy it" stuff, then I'm VERY wary of those fans. Given all the comments and stuff that SE has said in interviews, facebook, blogs etc, I tend to believe him that he's not trying to glorify sexual violence. Considering Karsa started as a 'how uncomfortable can I make my friend' joke in a one on one rpg session, he probably enjoys making people squirm about it.
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Nov 27, 2023 22:31
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Jaxyon posted:That section is intended to be a very unreliable narrator, and a counter to the noble savage mythos(along with the Barghast). Lots of fans like him(karsa) but if it's because of that section, and not the "society sucks and is exploitive, and I will destroy it" stuff, then I'm VERY wary of those fans. Given all the comments and stuff that SE has said in interviews, facebook, blogs etc, I tend to believe him that he's not trying to glorify sexual violence. This is the section I was referring to ‘Bairoth Gild and Delum Thord, take your first among the others. I will guard.’ The two warriors grinned, dismounted and plunged among the women to select one each. They vanished into separate houses, leading their prizes by the hand. Karsa watched with raised brows. The chief’s wife snorted. ‘Your warriors were not blind to the eagerness of those two,’ she said. ‘Their warriors, be they father or mate, will not be pleased with such eagerness,’ Karsa commented. Uryd women would not— ‘They will never know, Warleader,’ the chief’s wife replied, ‘unless you tell them, and what is the likelihood of that?’ Like I said it's not great, but thankfully the author mostly left that particular direction after that section. I just finished "Book One" of House of Chains and Karsa is rapidly becoming a (mostly, barring the rape spree after escaping from the first slaver) different character, which again, good. I don't mind the fact that sexual assault exists in the world, but if it's going to be explicitly shown there needs to be a drat good reason IMO. I don't think the first section of this book has demonstrated such a reason, so it (again, to me) feels gratuitous so far this book.
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Nov 27, 2023 22:40
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Skyl3lazer posted:I don't mind the fact that sexual assault exists in the world, but if it's going to be explicitly shown there needs to be a drat good reason IMO. I don't think the first section of this book has demonstrated such a reason, so it (again, to me) feels gratuitous so far this book. FWIW, I agree with you. I also argue that the hobbling scene later in the series doesn't need to be there, but SE has written an entire essay on that. As for the Karsa stuff, having otataral block magic and also make women super horny regardless of consent seems like a really juvenile edgelord idea.
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Nov 27, 2023 23:29
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The hobbling scene was the only time in the series where I felt honestly disturbed. It was really rough. I always kind of looked at the beginning Karsa stuff as like an acceptable cultural practice among the clans, and the women looking at power and control as desirable traits in men expressed in that fashion. Not that that excuses any of it. I suppose the hobbling is also the same thing but still it was way worse for me to get through, especially after investing so much time into Hetan in the series so far. The only other scene I think worth mentioning was Stonny in book 3, which was also rough and seemed kind of needless. I suppose it further demonstrated the madness of the Pannion Domin, but I think that whole thing was also pretty crazy in general and probably could have been left out and not changed anything.
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Nov 28, 2023 00:01
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Skyl3lazer posted:This is the section I was referring to It's been a while since I read House of Chains, but it's outright stated that Icarium told the Toblakai tribes to separate for their own wellbeing and it's implied that raiding was encouraged as part of this. Which makes sense: if you've only got a small number of people in your village, then without a periodic influx of outsiders (slaves/conquests from raids), there are going to be a lot of children being born with serious genetic conditions, which we see in House of Chains (the part of the village where the deformed babies are dumped). There's probably some sort of widespread oral tradition among the Toblakai of hearing stories about raiding, which we again see with Karsa's memories of his grandfather's boasting. So I can imagine a scenario where three raiders who come to town and murder a bunch of wimps seem impressive enough to a few women that they'd look forward to having sex with Bairoth/Delum/Karsa. Particularly since it's - again - implied that a lot of the tribes are kind of in a funk and the raiding doesn't happen much and when it does it's morons like Karsa's grandfather. (After all, isn't "strong/rugged newcomer" the love interest in at least half the romantic/erotic fiction aimed at women? Or so I've heard.  )And Karsa's high on his own farts and also kind of an idiot himself so he doesn't seem to notice that the Chief's wife is giving off strong "yeah, every new person who comes through the village gets to sleep with someone" vibes. She only starts to lose her cool when it's clear that he's expecting to gently caress her as part of his 'reward'. The Uryd are at the arse-end of the valley, and presumably they don't get many visitors, so Karsa doesn't know the rules are different. The villagers have expectations of what happens when they get raided (because it's likely happened in one form or other every so often) but Karsa and he gang are in "now we get to do whatever we want" mode because their expectations are built on the fiction that their elders have told them. The whole thing is hosed-up at best, but Erikson is an anthropologist and presumably thought it through for longer than I have (about 25 minutes so far). Erikson also has a strong "cultural relativism is bullshit" streak running throughout the series and this is one of those examples. Karsa is a piece of poo poo at this point in the story but the culture of his village tells him he's a hero for his actions. He's wrong.
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Nov 28, 2023 00:04
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FWIW, here's the author commenting on the hobbling scene. Spoilers for DoD/TCG
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Nov 28, 2023 06:01
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I'm about a quarter of the way through Memories of Ice. I'm just not digging it like Deadhouse Gates, I can't quite tell why. It doesn't feel like a set of interwoven storylines so much as a random splatter of events all vaguely related to fighting the Crippled God/Pannion Domin. Is the rest of the series basically going to revolve around fighting the Crippled God to save the world? Because that seems a lot less interesting than what was going on in the first two books.
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Dec 4, 2023 07:30
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Sailor Viy posted:Is the rest of the series basically going to revolve around fighting the Crippled God to save the world? Because that seems a lot less interesting than what was going on in the first two books. Nope!
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Dec 4, 2023 08:30
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Sailor Viy posted:I'm about a quarter of the way through Memories of Ice. I'm just not digging it like Deadhouse Gates, I can't quite tell why. It doesn't feel like a set of interwoven storylines so much as a random splatter of events all vaguely related to fighting the Crippled God/Pannion Domin. I'm curious what I'd think of MoI if I ever do a series reread, particularly Itkovian's story, which I think I'd be more receptive to. snoremac fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 09:31
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Turpitude posted:Nope! snoremac posted:I also felt put off by MoI and wondered if the series was for me when it's so heavily praised, but House of Chains and Midnight Tides were both bangers (MT is my series fave) and there's still a lot to love about this series to come. Those two books expand the world considerably with some significant shifts in perspective. Cool! I will persevere then.
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Dec 6, 2023 01:27
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