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Blood manipulation likely has a lot of non combat utility, like for transfusions and vampiric youth preserving properties. There was an old guy wandering around the Kamo halls who had memories of Kenjaku’s days as Noritoshi over 150 years ago. It’s a valuable resource you could trade for favors to the wealthy and powerful as well. Probably the most valuable dynasty building technique.
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Nov 28, 2023 12:27
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| # ? May 23, 2024 11:53 |
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yum posted:Blood manipulation likely has a lot of non combat utility, like for transfusions and vampiric youth preserving properties. There was an old guy wandering around the Kamo halls who had memories of Kenjaku’s days as Noritoshi over 150 years ago. It’s a valuable resource you could trade for favors to the wealthy and powerful as well. Probably the most valuable dynasty building technique. That makes sense for sure. I had assumed they couldn't affect someone else's blood (at least none at the level we saw) but was thinking only of combat. I imagine a transfusion where they can possibly stem internal bleeding or insure some kinds of grafts take etc. would be very powerful.
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Nov 28, 2023 12:39
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It's weird to me that people seem to think Sukuna wouldn't have won without 10S. IMO, if Megumi had died or just didn't have it, he would have pivoted or gotten fixated on something else. Nobara's hairpin technique, or using a new version of Todo's clap to somehow separate Gojo from his barriers for a split second, or mastering Toge's cursed speech. Hell, just having Kenjaku/Suguru cycle through curses until he found something else he could use like incorporeal attacks or some kind of mind control, or training non-stop to assure he wins the Domain clash, or going and finding some ancient cursed tool similar to but legally distinct from the inverted spear. He decided to choose 10S because it was highest risk/highest reward and that's how he rolls, but it wasn't as though he wasn't completely out of options without it.
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Nov 28, 2023 13:08
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Yeah I think that's what Gojo meant at the airport
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Nov 28, 2023 13:12
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They can control their own blood, but it doesn't have to be inside them at the time. The usual method is fueling big techniques with prepared blood packs, and Choso showed they also can gather up any of their spilled blood within range. An absolute master of it could do crazy things with it, even just as extensions of Choso's usage.
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Nov 28, 2023 13:18
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GreenMetalSun posted:It's weird to me that people seem to think Sukuna wouldn't have won without 10S. He can't just use or copy someone else's technique though. Sukuna being able to incarnate in a vessel at all is extremely rare so if he couldn't get Megumi it's unlikely he'd have any other options. Even with Mahoraga he couldn't use the first method Mahoraga adapted where it altered its cursed energy. He had to wait for it to do something he could mimic which was how it chose to target Gojo. I think the change in the fight would have been within the domains. I think Sukuna was holding back during the domain clashes to allow Mahoraga time to adapt to limitless. I also think Sukuna going and finding a special tool or curse to beat Gojo would also just have the same result where people say Gojo is stronger and Sukuna had to go and get help to beat him.
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Nov 28, 2023 13:20
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The rule of Jujutsu Kaisen is that All In Always Wins (90% of Sorcerers Quit Right Before Hitting It Big) so he would have done some insane poo poo like make his domain appear inside Gojo's body or something since we know domain exteriors can move and change size.
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Nov 28, 2023 13:57
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EmmyOk posted:I also think Sukuna going and finding a special tool or curse to beat Gojo would also just have the same result where people say Gojo is stronger and Sukuna had to go and get help to beat him. Well, yeah. He was 100% on the bad side of a bad technique matchup and he figured out how to overcome it. Also, if he can invent a slash that cuts space I legit don't see why he can't invent one that attacks the soul directly or that briefly separates Gojo and Limitless or that's incorporeal or [insert other bullshit here], especially since he had a way to observe those things and a month of time to practice in. Again, assuming the worst and Megumi died or something. ...and all of that is assuming he doesn't have some other bullshit up his sleeve because he's some kind of weird fallen pseudo-deity.
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Nov 28, 2023 14:03
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Blood manipulation also seems the most consistent of the three great clan's techniques to achieve mastery in. It doesn't require a once-in-a-generation secondary technique like how Limitless needs the Six Eyes to be truly explored. It doesn't require the likely years it would have taken Megumi to unlock the 9 of the 10 shikigami he reasonably could defeat and even then, if those shikigami are defeated they are gone forever. By the time we see Noritoshi Kamo in the modern era fight during the Kyoto competition he's mastered what I think are the 3 major techniques of blood manipulation; Convergence, Piercing blood, and Flowing Red Scales. The first two are the strongest 1-2 punch the technique has and is a great offensive attack only improved by Choso with the invention of supernova to cover the medium range. Similarly flowing red scales covers close range combat by greatly boosting melee capabilities. There's also blood binding, blood discs, blades, and using blood to create homing projectiles from normal objects. It's got great utility, the biggest prep any given member would have to do is keeping some blood packages on hand and that's easy enough to manage compared to the other clans. My biggest questions would be how the Kamo clan supported themselves outside their inherited techniques. We know the Zen'nin clan created several battle corps out of people who either had no techniques or non-inherited techniques and I assume both the Gojo and Kamo clans did the same. There's also a question about the frequency of inherited techniques within the family. Gojo is the first in 400 years to inherit the six eyes, but there are 2-3 unnamed six eye users that have appeared in the past as far as what I think has been referenced. And Megumi is the first 10S user in not quite as much time. But the Kamo clan has that 150yo person walking around so maybe blood manipulation is more frequent because it lacks the same kind of trump card as Mahoraga or the Six Eyes? I assume if Kamo ever achieved domain expansion it would just let him go all out the way Choso can because of his mixed-cursed spirit physiology. Just fighting a guy in a sea of blood would be a nightmare scenario.
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Nov 28, 2023 16:30
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ImpAtom posted:Gojo thought he'd win against regular, not Megumi Body Stolen version. I did find his flip very amusing. Gojo before: "Nah, I'd win." Gojo after: "Sukuna is like, so strong, dude. Of course I lost. Against Sukuna, not against 10 Shadows, I'm sure he had like 5 different ways to beat me without it, he was just flexing. So I'm not salty I lost - in fact, I'm glad I lost, beats just growing old, you know? My only regret is that I didn't make him work harder for it, but that goes to show how strong and cool he is, totally the only person who could've ever beaten me."
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Nov 28, 2023 16:40
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Conspiratiorist posted:I did find his flip very amusing. I don't think this is a flip at all. Gojo's "yeah i'm totally the bestest and strongest dude ever" attitude always struck me as grandstanding. It wasn't something he actually believed, it was a symbol he believed he had to be and had to live up to.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:14
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Losing definitely took a lot of weight off him.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:15
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Now I'm wondering what would have happened if Gojo won and had to continue to maintain "the strongest" title. Maybe end up like Geto?
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Nov 28, 2023 18:33
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Nah. While Geto flipped wholeheartedly into being the change he wanted to see, Gojo never trusted himself to be the man in charge even though he was born with the power to singlehandedly overturn the existing system. Things had already crashed and burned by the time he got unsealed anyway, with the Zenin slaughtered by Maki and the Kamos and Jujutsu HQ taken over by Kenjaku, so he simply asked his students to go ahead and mop up the traitors, and for Gakuganji to take responsibility for helping prop up the system by reorganizing jujutsu society after the fighting is over.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:54
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sukuna busting out a senzu bean that bypasses the last finger and saying he was saving it the entire time turned gojo from a mid diff to a low diff. Playing around with different builds in a death fight for fun is more disrespectful than all the poo poo gojo was doing to the cursed spirits
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Nov 28, 2023 19:00
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To be fair, Makora facing off against Limitless was an unique opportunity to refine his CT that for Sukuna was likely worth more than whatever anyone else thinks the stakes in this conflict are. And this loving around almost got him got, which is why he concedes respect for Gojo at the end even though Sukuna clearly outclassed him.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:31
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Brought To You By posted:There's also a question about the frequency of inherited techniques within the family. Gojo is the first in 400 years to inherit the six eyes, but there are 2-3 unnamed six eye users that have appeared in the past as far as what I think has been referenced. First in 400 years to inherit both Six Eyes and Limitless at the same time. The 2-3 Six Eyes users between would have had Limitless. But Having the Six Eyes along with some other technique would still be great.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:44
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Break next week, by the by.
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Nov 29, 2023 08:25
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Break next week, by the by. Gege furiously studying the Japanese legal system.
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Nov 29, 2023 10:34
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lol miwa back just to get clowned more I mean not really they're probably setting up Higgy or Yuji using a similar vow in the fight but STILL why we gotta do Miwa SO dirty
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Nov 29, 2023 14:36
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"Unless Miwa here!"
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Nov 29, 2023 15:35
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Miwa is objectively the cutest girl character in the manga, and so she must be the most useless, as that accentuates her cuteness. Maki still the baddest tho
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Nov 29, 2023 15:53
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https://imgur.com/a/Yu5dD2I fast crap scans
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Nov 29, 2023 16:00
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I'm working with lawyers lately and that sequence of four identical panels where Yuji jumps too quickly to conclusions hit close to home
Char fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 16:52
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yum posted:https://imgur.com/a/Yu5dD2I
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Nov 29, 2023 18:40
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It's actually super funny that a plot point is literally: Judgeman might accidentally/randomly judge Sukuna for dropping an Almond Joy wrapper at the park instead of doing a terrorism Sam, Judge Man here e: the actual canonical best defense against Higgy is just littering a bunch and putting garbage in the recycling hole at the YMCA for 2 weeks straight before you fight him Sukuna preparing to fight Judge Man: leaving his cart in the parking lot at sams club instead of taking it to the return area Taima fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 18:59
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You thought we were done with comedy hour, but for our next skit we attempt to navigate the Japanese judicial system.
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Nov 29, 2023 19:06
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Enjoying the Cool Big Kanjis 
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Nov 29, 2023 19:27
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My guess at how the Higuruma vs Sukuna trial would turn out, is that he gets to confiscate his technique which causes Sukuna to bust out whatever shenanigans he was up to with the fire in Shibuya and this is how that gets its explanation. Of course this being JJK things are probably gonna go sideways real quick.
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Nov 29, 2023 20:15
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Just caught up in the manga now that the anime is (supposedly) going on hiatus. I don't mind Gojo losing, but felt like that death wasn't earned. I get that the story is about super-powerful sorcerers, but to me, the fight kind of felt like something school kids come up with during recess when they're role-playing having superpowers and keep one-upping one another until you inevitably end up with some bullshit ability that trumps all others. I don't know, I think I would have liked it more if the fight was a little more contained and the loss was depicted in a more clever way. And then Sukuna is back to full strength. Sorry for probably beating a dead horse. And actually, I think I feel the same way about Kenjaku's death (?). Being this 'clever' doesn't really work when you can make characters clever whenever it's needed to progress the story.
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Nov 29, 2023 20:31
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With Kenjaku it owned, with Gojo he still managed quite a feat but the story really wanted to take any wind out of those particular sails ASAP.
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Nov 29, 2023 20:48
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Gojo's death really did break some people. Sukuna stays winning tho
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Nov 29, 2023 21:08
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rkd_ posted:Just caught up in the manga now that the anime is (supposedly) going on hiatus. jjk, more than any other battle shounen ive read, eschews plausibility and realism in favor of naked spectacle and taoist allegory. this is NOT the manga for fights where a keen reader can anticipate the outcome just by understanding the systems at play and the capabilities of the fighters, no matter how much technical-sounding jargon the english translators insert. this IS the manga where your understanding of dualism, dialectics, and the tao te ching will aid in understanding what jogo meant about cursed spirits being the real humans
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Nov 29, 2023 21:24
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Also it feeling like children making poo poo up is kind of the point. They're two people so beyond normal skull and personal limits that they're regularly breaking the known rules of their craft and effortlessly doing risky poo poo that would kill lanyone else as happenstance to what they're trying to achieve. It's two gods interacting and i feel it pulls that off well
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Nov 29, 2023 21:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also it feeling like children making poo poo up is kind of the point. They're two people so beyond normal skull and personal limits that they're regularly breaking the known rules of their craft and effortlessly doing risky poo poo that would kill lanyone else as happenstance to what they're trying to achieve. It's two gods interacting and i feel it pulls that off well Yeah I really liked the fight! The ending is the sticking point but chapter to chapter it was nuts and I liked it.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:59
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scary ghost dog posted:jjk, more than any other battle shounen ive read, eschews plausibility and realism in favor of naked spectacle and taoist allegory. this is NOT the manga for fights where a keen reader can anticipate the outcome just by understanding the systems at play and the capabilities of the fighters, no matter how much technical-sounding jargon the english translators insert. this IS the manga where your understanding of dualism, dialectics, and the tao te ching will aid in understanding what jogo meant about cursed spirits being the real humans I'm sure what you're saying is true, but needing a whole lot of background information and knowledge (including on a Chinese text written 2000 years ago) to appreciate the way fights play out is not really a reasonable request for the average fan in my opinion. Especially since I feel none of that was needed up until after the Shibuya incident. I'm also fine with characters (whether friend or foe) having ridiculous abilities. But to have a fight end on "Bet you didn't expect this surprise attack that I particularly acquired because I know it's extra effective against you" is just a lame way to end a (long-lasting) fight imo  Are the mathematical explanations in-between chapters also something inserted by English translators? ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also it feeling like children making poo poo up is kind of the point. They're two people so beyond normal skull and personal limits that they're regularly breaking the known rules of their craft and effortlessly doing risky poo poo that would kill lanyone else as happenstance to what they're trying to achieve. It's two gods interacting and i feel it pulls that off well That's fair and, of course, not everything will be for everyone. See my comment above as to why I think the execution of it is kind of lame though. I should have phrased my original post better, I really liked the fight itself and the different solutions each came up with to deal with the problem presented by the other. So it's actually not really about what powers they have, but more about how these powers play out and how this long, exciting fight ends on a surprise attack that was part of a big master plan. It's just not a very interesting way to end a fight, and that's why I referred to 'children making up powers until they come up with something too strong and break the game'. And then anything Gojo did was useless because he just regenerated. EDIT: All of this probably was not helped by the fact I thought the Shibuya Incident arc was incredibly strong and interesting as opposed to the Culling Game which felt kinda random. EDIT2: I don't want to keep rambling, but again, I felt the same about Kenjaku's death. I think characters being tricked and then killed by a surprise attack is just not interesting, especially if they're supposedly hyper-aware. The theoretical explanation of why they were not aware in that specific situation usually also doesn't make it better. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 22:12
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jjk is a very vibes heavy manga Kenjaku vs. Takaba? the vibes were good Sakuna vs Gojo? the vibes were bad Yuta vs. everyone? the vibes were good etc.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:16
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Jon Irenicus posted:jjk is a very vibes heavy manga I don't know, I feel the same about Kenjaku vs Takaba. The fight itself was very interesting. The conclusion, not so much.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:19
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Jon Irenicus posted:jjk is a very vibes heavy manga I agree with this. Shonen seems to have 2 major types. You have an explained system and clear powers that are then used in novel ways to introduce excitement. rear end pulls hurt in this kind of manga unless the explanation is really good. You need a clever author with attention to detail to make this work. Vibes based battle systems thrive on spectacle and the good vibes. Powers can change wildly and be asspulled but as long as you pull it off you will be forgiven. I think Bleach is a good example because Tite Kubo clearly wanted to be a vibes guy but tried to stuff the manga with unnecessary technical explanation for things which made a lot of the asspull stuff a turn off for readers.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:23
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What about the Sukuna vs Gojo rule wasn’t within the rules as written for the manga? Every single usage of cursed techniques came back as relevant in some way, whether it be down to RCT, domain expansions and barriers, black flash refreshes, simple domain usage, domain amplification, everything really. If you think it was being made up as it went, you didn’t really pay attention to anything in the series leading up to it.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:38
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