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I think the core idea of Enuncia works in my head because it gives "true names" a mechanism that my brain connects to. The idea that knowing something's true name gives you power over it ties into Enuncia pretty well. The Ollanius adventure is Okay. Grammaticus feels like he's just there to be the CAUSE of things, but the rest of the crew feels like they're just hangers on while the most interesting bits about Oll (that he's been around since the Sumerian period) is pointedly ignored. Admittedly I'm about 1/3rd of the way through End and Death 2.
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Dec 1, 2023 05:21
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I enjoyed the first two Grey Knights books, but not the third. Alaric succeeded in the first two by outwitting the antagonists. For the third it just seemed like he mostly just out-muscled them while being all pure and incorruptible and pure and incorruptible, which was less interesting. Been a long time since I read them though. What I did recently read was the Alpha Legion "trilogy." It was fun, but with its ups and downs. "Sons of the Hydra" was weird. Rob Sanders had a lot of good ideas, but didn't quite stick the landing. The pacing was disjointed, and although there was an interesting buildup of "everything goes right until it starts going wrong," the resolution of certain things, like the daemonic possession of the ship, would've been more of a payoff it hadn't been only introduced a chapter or two prior. The Necron thing was easy to see coming (although I might have been more charitable if I hadn't just finished "The Infinite and the Divine" which had a way better face-off with the Deceiver.) The way things inevitably went wrong, involving a double-cross and ship hijack alongside a Bloodthirster being set loose in an Imperial Cathedral in the middle of an army muster, was much more exciting, and was certainly the more satisfying climax, for the sheer mayhem of it. There's a common thread with a lot of the books about Chaos Space Marines that show some cross-pollination between the Traitor Legions post-Heresy, and it works pretty well here, but what was even more interesting was the entire society of "cultists" that surrounded the warband, which is something that seems uniquely Alpha Legion, and deserved much better than to be written off, basically, off-screen, when so much effort went into their introduction. For all this book's issues, "The Redacted" is a fantastic name for a warband, and Occam the Untrue was a sufficiently just weird guy. "Shroud of Night" was good. There was strong chemistry between the Unsung, and I really liked how their tactics and methodologies were actually explained, rather than simply succeeding due to some innate Alpha Legion talent. Dramatic irony was employed to good effect -- yes, Kassar's faith is in his warband, and yes, of course some of them have mutinous intent, and yes, something hosed up is going to happen with the Slaaneshi cultist they're escorting, and no, there's no chance in hell the Imperials aren't going to get utterly clowned here, and you, the reader are completely and totally meant to see these things coming, because Andy Clark knows what kind of story he's writing and so do you. All in all, an okay spy-thriller type action flick book. If it had featured lengthy dialogue exchanges with the big famous characters who showed up (Kharn, Celestine) it'd be 40k Metal Gear. "Renegades: Harrowmaster", is easily the best of them, not only as a good book, but as a quintessentially Alpha Legion story. It's like Mike Brooks just made a checklist of everything that ever distinguished them in 40k lore, and made sure to include it somewhere. Disparate warbands of wildly varying tactics and character? Check. Cat-and-mouse games with the Inquisition, with all parties entirely confident that they're playing the other like a fiddle? Check. Multiple instances of showing how they deal with the "head" of the Hydra getting proverbially cut off? Check. Non-legionaries being just as influential and vital to their operations as legionaries? Check, and so on. I have to credit the protagonist Solomon, who does, through the events of the book, actually earn the distinction of being a believable contender for overlord of the entire Legion, in the sense that Abaddon or Huron are for theirs...at least as much as it's possible for any Alpha Legionnaire to be, and his Chaos Sorceress sidekick, for her chemistry with him -- and for being a complete treasure of a character the whole way through. Seriously, though, if Games Workshop ever saw fit to make an official mini for an Alpha Legion character that was for 40k and not HH, he's their boy, and he should absolutely have Tulava in accompaniment (because, as Fabius Bile taught us, while ladies can't be Legionaries, they can absolutely be Chaos Space Marines.) Other than featuring Alpha Legion, there's one other thing these books have in common: They all contain clear sequel hooks, and none of them have gotten any (although it was nice of Harrowmaster to give them a passing mention, establishing at least a continuity.) They oughtta just go for it and tie 'em all together for realsies. In any case, that's my take on these books about the Team Rocket of 40k. As of now, I'm approximately halfway through Graham McNeill's Forges of Mars trilogy, and man, this writing has issues, but...it's alright.
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Dec 1, 2023 05:28
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Reading Fall of Cadia now, about 40% of the way in, and the loyalist Astartes other than the ones who made it onto the Blackstone Fortress are basically worthless to the actual strategic defense of Cadia. The Black Templars are wasting themselves primarily against cultist fodder because they refused to redeploy, while the Dark Angels essentially took themselves out of the fight by defending their crashed strike cruiser instead of any other location. Same thing, frankly, with the Sisters of Battle. I'm gonna be a bit irritated if all of these extremely dumb moves end up paying off for the Imperium. At least the assault on the Blackstone fortress was a gamble that had potential payoff. I know what happens in the end, so I'm expecting to be irritated. e: And just after I posted this I got to the part where they have the in-universe military historian pointing out all of this and more. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 05:51
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I feel like someone just asked this here but I can't find it for some reason. Are there any recommended AoS novels? I was gonna grab the Grombrindal collection and maybe some Kharadron books but if there's any particular books or authors that are worth picking up to get a better feel for the setting for someone who's getting more into it, that would be great.
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Dec 1, 2023 07:58
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Dec 1, 2023 07:59
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sharknado slashfic posted:The again this is the publisher that decided the astartes are named after Dr. Astarte and not simply a nod to a war goddess. There's zero chance, no loving way at all, that the Emperor's pet project is named after the mortal lead scientist He assigned to lead the project. Exactly integer zero chance. If anything, her name in the history books is based on the project, not the other way round.
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Dec 1, 2023 08:10
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I thought Astarte was another Perpetual for some reason.
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Dec 1, 2023 08:18
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I thought Astarte was another Perpetual for some reason. No, but she was an incredibly brilliant geneticist and all around biosciences genius.
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Dec 1, 2023 08:25
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wiegieman posted:No, but she was an incredibly brilliant geneticist and all around biosciences genius. Okay that's extra stupid because if she was a Perpetual she could have literally been the goddess. EDIT: I still enjoyed EATD vol II but it definitely felt more padded. Lots more wheel spinning and sense of repetition. Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 08:27
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S.J. posted:I feel like someone just asked this here but I can't find it for some reason. Are there any recommended AoS novels? I was gonna grab the Grombrindal collection and maybe some Kharadron books but if there's any particular books or authors that are worth picking up to get a better feel for the setting for someone who's getting more into it, that would be great. Anything by Josh Reynolds. He almost got me to care about that setting, but much like his Bile books you can sometimes feel him straining against the bars that editorial has around him. Arbite fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 10:26
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habeasdorkus posted:Reading Fall of Cadia now, about 40% of the way in, and the loyalist Astartes other than the ones who made it onto the Blackstone Fortress are basically worthless to the actual strategic defense of Cadia. I loved everything about this plotline, it was such a perfect illustration of "Space Marines are not human," especially the Templars having their heads so incredibly far up their own asses  I hope GW gives Rath lots of money so he keeps writing for them.
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Dec 1, 2023 11:17
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Calax posted:I think the core idea of Enuncia works in my head because it gives "true names" a mechanism that my brain connects to. The idea that knowing something's true name gives you power over it ties into Enuncia pretty well. The issue in my mind is that true names are already a well established thing, and they're a Warp power. Lorgar uses daemonic Fulgrim's true name to drag Fulgrim to the Siege, ADB's Grey Knights banish daemons with true names, etc. My real problem with Enuncia is that it isn't an expression of the Warp. If it was some kind of weird, dangerous, unreliable method by which a non-psychically-gifted individual could manipulate the Warp, I'd be onboard, that's something that fits the setting. Having it be an entirely different magic system that somehow none of the other species of the galaxy have figured out while dirt-scrabbling early humans did bothers me.
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Dec 1, 2023 12:09
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habeasdorkus posted:Reading Fall of Cadia now, about 40% of the way in, and the loyalist Astartes other than the ones who made it onto the Blackstone Fortress are basically worthless to the actual strategic defense of Cadia. The Black Templars are wasting themselves primarily against cultist fodder because they refused to redeploy, while the Dark Angels essentially took themselves out of the fight by defending their crashed strike cruiser instead of any other location. Same thing, frankly, with the Sisters of Battle. I'm gonna be a bit irritated if all of these extremely dumb moves end up paying off for the Imperium. At least the assault on the Blackstone fortress was a gamble that had potential payoff. I'm nearly finished with the book and the defence of Cadia is kind of a shitshow from start to finish. It's funny how the most valuable non-militarum forces were the two Space Wolves grand companies. One bum-rushed the fortress and the other dealth with the iron warriors before they brought down the pylons, which is funny because they didn't even know at the time how valuable for the pylons were. Even Abaddon is frustrated by how the woofs are always in the most inconvenient, plot relevant places. What a bunch of absolute lads, I love 40k era space wolves.
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Dec 1, 2023 12:32
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caedwalla posted:Abnett is a top tier writer but some of his lore additions are weird and bad. Enuncia is lame but the magic bracelets that turn pariahs off are way worse. Pariah limiters are one of the worst things in the setting yeah, it just neatly disables the entire point of their existence for plot convenience lol. Enuncia is kind of whatever but only because it just seems like a weird occult reference and doesn't really ever have wider setting implications, even with Eisenhorn it's only ever been used as a very narrow plot device. Perpetuals are fine honestly, I think the main area where their existence failed to be satisfying is whenever Vulcan dies because he's just the comedy relief Primarch whenever someone needs to establish an opponents power level.
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Dec 1, 2023 13:31
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Haven't read 40k in years and years and just thought I'd wander in here and see how things are nowadays. Based on the last few pages it sounds like it's heading down the same path as when Disney took over Star Wars.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:04
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I don't think anyone would come to that conclusion unless they wanted to ahead of time.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:17
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His Divine Shadow posted:Haven't read 40k in years and years and just thought I'd wander in here and see how things are nowadays. Based on the last few pages it sounds like it's heading down the same path as when Disney took over Star Wars. what
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Dec 1, 2023 14:19
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Biplane posted:One of my favorite aspects of the new necrons is their relationship to time now that they're functionally immortal. Trazyn spends like 7 years just pondering poo poo while standing around the planning table with his majordomo (Sannet?) before anyone says anything. And in twice dead when oltyx meets up with his brother and they just sorta stand there in silence for hours. I think its neat That was fantastic yeah. A small thing in twice dead king I like is the reframing of the imperium, that to any race except maybe orks a full imperial crusade fleet might as well be a tyranid invasion. An endless tide of horror bent only towards destruction and no hope of even slowing it down. From the imperiums perspective they might be getting chipped away from the great rift and all the threats wearing them down and stretching them thin, but they still have the numbers and industry to provide apocalyptic threat to everybody else around them. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 14:23
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His Divine Shadow posted:Haven't read 40k in years and years and just thought I'd wander in here and see how things are nowadays. Based on the last few pages it sounds like it's heading down the same path as when Disney took over Star Wars. can you explain what you mean by this because on the surface that's a staggeringly incorrect take
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Dec 1, 2023 14:31
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:can you explain what you mean by this because on the surface that's a staggeringly incorrect take i'm happy other people commented because my first thought after reading it was some sort of "well if that's the limit of your reading comprehension then maybe you're shouldn't be reading any sort of fiction not for children"
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Dec 1, 2023 14:36
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I'm quite open to being entirely wrong, it's an extremely shallow read from reading the last few pages of this thread. I just got that feeling from reading about this bullshit like enuncia and whatnot, like Oh they've started to add a bunch of poo poo to 40k now too just to keep adding content and milking it while ruining it at the same time. I'd be glad to be wrong about that.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:37
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Ardent Communist posted:i'm happy other people commented because my first thought after reading it was some sort of "well if that's the limit of your reading comprehension then maybe you're shouldn't be reading any sort of fiction not for children" Relax, don't be mean, I don't deserve that, particularly not if I am as stupid as you think.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:38
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His Divine Shadow posted:Relax, don't be mean, I don't deserve that, particularly not if I am as stupid as you think. well i didn't post it until other people said the same thing. but really, you have multiple people praising the newer authors, saying they've transformed peoples perspectives on established factions, people saying that the siege series is more good than bad, but fundamentally, a thread full of people that are fans, and you come in and have an extremely smooth brained take that "looks like it's all going down the shitter!" the comment may have been innocuous, but it's indistinguishable from lazy trolling. unless you care to explain what you meant, maybe you think there are parallels in how management is controlling their IP between Disney star wars and how games workshop controls black library where they're getting top talent to expand on things.
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Dec 1, 2023 14:56
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His Divine Shadow posted:I just got that feeling from reading about this bullshit like enuncia and whatnot, like Oh they've started to add a bunch of poo poo to 40k now too just to keep adding content and milking it while ruining it at the same time. Oh! Nah, not at all. Enuncia is very much the invention of one author rather than some corp mandated thing. It's just that he's Black Library's top dude so he probably gets less editorial oversight and more leeway to add weird concepts. The "adding content and milking it" part of 40K is imo the whole Primaris Marine thing, which was DEFINITELY a unecessary corp mandated "we need to sell the new hotness" move, at least at the start.
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Dec 1, 2023 15:00
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Oh! Nah, not at all. Enuncia is very much the invention of one author rather than some corp mandated thing. It's just that he's Black Library's top dude so he probably gets less editorial oversight and more leeway to add weird concepts. yeah, most of the corp stuff is "add this vehicle or regiment or etc" type stuff more then weird lore stuff.
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Dec 1, 2023 15:23
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Or “be very specific on the paint schemes on the armor “
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Dec 1, 2023 15:26
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Or "be very specific on the look and feel of the alien ship sphincter your phallic boarding torpedo is penetrating"
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Dec 1, 2023 15:30
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Biplane posted:Or "be very specific on the look and feel of the alien ship sphincter your phallic boarding torpedo is penetrating" Sphincter insufficiently rugose. Needs rewrite. - Ed
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Dec 1, 2023 15:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, most of the corp stuff is "add this vehicle or regiment or etc" type stuff more then weird lore stuff. It was extremely obvious that GW said "USE THE CAESTUS ASSAULT RAM" to Abnett and so he wrote the most metal use of it he could 
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Dec 1, 2023 15:35
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Finished Genefather and quite liked it, but I think a large part of that was John Banks' excellent narration really selling the principal characters Note that I haven't read the great work, which I imagine I'll get around to, but regarding Alpha Primus, What's the deal with his geneseed? It's not spelled out in Genefather, aside from Bile seeing traces of Magnus in there, but I got the impression that it's some kind of amalgamation of several strands-- all of them combined, maybe?
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Dec 1, 2023 15:45
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I get the distinct impression that a lot of people at GW, and a significant amount of the Black Library authors, actually give a poo poo about Warhammer 40k as a setting which is something that is emphatically NOT true of Disney's view of Star Wars.
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Dec 1, 2023 16:06
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Ardent Communist posted:well i didn't post it until other people said the same thing. Yeah I probably came off as an rear end in a top hat or idiot, but my brain is smooth as a sharks. I did only go off a few pages of this thread after all.
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Dec 1, 2023 16:09
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His Divine Shadow posted:Yeah I probably came off as an rear end in a top hat or idiot, but my brain is smooth as a sharks. I did only go off a few pages of this thread after all. Excuse me, this is the Warhammer thread. SPACE Sharks.
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Dec 1, 2023 16:11
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:SPACE Sharks. Excuse me, they're called Carcharodons now.
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Dec 1, 2023 16:32
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AnEdgelord posted:I get the distinct impression that a lot of people at GW, and a significant amount of the Black Library authors, actually give a poo poo about Warhammer 40k as a setting which is something that is emphatically NOT true of Disney's view of Star Wars. I think for a lot of the folks at Games Workshop they are both hobbyists and businessmen, and don't want to wreck the hobby for the sake of the business and don't want to wreck the business for the sake of the hobby. So you get a mixture of policies and products that make it a bit less soulless than anything by Disney, but the end is still a profit-making enterprise.
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Dec 1, 2023 17:00
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There is also not a lot of money tied up in the books so . Compared to like movies which cost a billion dollars
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Dec 1, 2023 17:00
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Bohemian Nights posted:Finished Genefather and quite liked it, but I think a large part of that was John Banks' excellent narration really selling the principal characters Primus is probably all of the Geneseed of every legion and even some of the data that went into making the primarchs. If anybody found out the exact truth Gulliman would certainly have Belisarius stripped for parts and the rest atomized. Very specifically he is the last remnant of Cawls attempt to create a mass produced Primarch army where all of their individual weaknesses were overlapped by their strengths. It didn't work because the Primarch project necessitated the emperor dabbling in some kind of warpcraft, so Instead Primus is left just a very big very strong space mariney boy who is miserable all the time due to being too many things stuffed in a small package. The loss of his geneseed is bad for the imperium in the long term but Biles already made perfect clones of the primarchs that already don't work so it's more about Abbadon getting a new stronger branch of uncorrupted geneseed to make new chaos legions with. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 17:08
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habeasdorkus posted:Excuse me, they're called Carcharodons now. I will never call them Carcharodons, and I will never call the Guard the "Astra Militarum" 
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Dec 1, 2023 17:16
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Do limiters for blanks appear anywhere but Abnetts books?
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Dec 1, 2023 17:37
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Having just reread Playing Patience, it kinda feels like he made it up so he could have a scene where a blank ambushes a blank and someone can go "but wait, your limiter is on, why's it blank here", and once he planted that seed he couldn't uproot it.
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Dec 1, 2023 17:52
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