Chainsaw Man(ga): BURN DOGS!!!

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CodfishCartographer: Feb 23, 2010; Gadus Maprocephalus; Pillbug

ImpAtom posted:

Unironically:

Denji is not someone who remotely had a sensible and healthy life. He was quite literally selling his balls for food money after he killed his own abusive father, whose death was covered up by yakuza shitwads who specifically prevented Denji from being given any sort of genuine care or treatment because they didn't want to lose money. Almost every single person he met in his life has attempted to abuse, trick or control him, including Aki and Power who both basically tried to gently caress him over the first time they really met. Even when he does form connections they get forcibly torn away from him at the behest of the biggest and worst abuser of all who specifically manipulated things so Denji would have nothing and nobody except her, and even once she died Denji was effectively left with their kid.

Even if Asa didn't exist in Part 2, there's no real indication Denji would be in a different situation except Asa appears to be the first person he genuinely has made any sort of connection with, even if we as the audience know that connection is tied to yet another person trying to control and use him. Both Asa and Denji are profoundly alone people in a way that almost nobody else in the world can truly connect with and that is important to the overall story. Denji isn't really a different person, it is just that he's still profoundly alone because as far as he is aware everyone in his life except his sister and Asa only interact with him because they want to use or hurt him.

Like lol denji wants to touch boobs funny but Denji's basic thing is that he is profoundly, desperately, incredibly needy for genuine human connection. He's a dumb horny teen, yeah, but even his dumb horniness isn't about wanting sex so much as it is about wanting someone he can actually interact with on a human level. The dude is focused on sex because as far as he's aware sex is the most intimate you can get with someone, but it's pretty noteworthy that Denji can be funnily horny but when push comes to shove sex doesn't actually seem that important to him. He doesn't care about touching boobs for the sake of touching boobs, his naked swim with Bomb mattered more to him that she was teaching him to swim, and in general he's just immensely and desperately thirsty to be able to just interact with people more than getting laid.

This is all a logical continuation of Part 1 where Denji spent the entire part basically learning that he's allowed to want things while at the same time learning that things he thinks he wants are not necessarily what he actually wants. Part 2 Denji is now trying to figure out what he actually wants. (Which, again, seems to largely be actual human connection. He frames it as "I want to be Chainsaw Man" but what he wants from that is being someone people like and want to be around. It is why Asa, despite their relatively limited time together, is important to him because as far as he's aware Asa is the singular person who has shown interest in Denji instead of Denji The Host Of Chainsaw Man.)

Honestly, Fumiko might be the first person who doesn't immediately hate or manipulate Denji? I mean okay there was the sex offer in the theater thing but that seemed to be what she was ordered to do by Yoshida. Aside from that she seems to like, actually care about him (somewhat) in a way that isn't to further her own agenda which I think might be a first. I guess it could be argued she cares about Chainsawman rather than Denji, or only cares about Denji because he's Chainsaw Man? Similarish to Makima, though at least Fumiko doesn't see Denji as an obstacle to deal with to get to CSM.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 19:25

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:32

Robviously: Aug 21, 2010; Genius. Billionaire. Playboy. Philanthropist.

Interestingly, at this point in part 1 we just ended the Reze arc and we're setting up International Assassins.

I'm curious if we're gonna see the world in pt 2 grow the same way we did in pt 1 here.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 20:13

MachuPikacchu: Oct 15, 2012; Sacre vert! Maman!

My read of the "I want to be Chainsaw Man" line is that it's tied to his desire for agency. Everyone he has ever met, with few exceptions, thinks they are entitled to use him, or rather, use the chainsaw devil that is inside of him. Yoshida then takes that away from him, depriving him of one of the very few things that give his life meaning and self-worth. And then, as if to mock him, suddenly everyone around him starts turning into chainsaw devil hybrids. Being the chainsaw hybrid led to him being used by everyone, but it was something that made him special, and it's been taken from him and given to everyone else BUT him. So that line, to me, is him asserting that, even though everyone has chainsaw devil powers, and even though tons of people dislike him or want to use him, only he can be Chainsaw Man.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 20:27

Valentin: Sep 16, 2012

CodfishCartographer posted:

Honestly, Fumiko might be the first person who doesn't immediately hate or manipulate Denji?

it's true that fumiko feels what appears to be genuine sympathy towards denji (I don't think there's any reason to question her describing herself as a denji fan rather than a chainsaw man fan), she's just also still a fan and not a friend. That's why she can freely manipulate him for her own amusement (both sexually harassing him in the theater and the karaoke combat scene) while still maintaining and believing she feels bad for him and wants to save him. he is, in truth, simply her little blorbo.

Valentin fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Dec 6, 2023

# ? Dec 6, 2023 21:05

Giggy: Jan 22, 2010

Jerkface posted:

That's a pretty cogent analysis of part 2, and not really weird at all?

No it's not

# ? Dec 6, 2023 23:14

Jerkface: May 21, 2001; HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Giggy posted:

No it's not

Part 2 has been very different from Part 1 and that is a logical run down of why that might be due to the way Fujimoto has structured the protagonists. You dont have to agree with it but its logical. Meming some poster is fine if they are constantly doing meme-worthy stuff, but doing it when its not warranted gets old/looks like cheap point scoring.

# ? Dec 6, 2023 23:19

Snooze Cruise: Feb 16, 2013; hey look,
a post

logical, ok sherlock holmes!

# ? Dec 6, 2023 23:23

sube: Nov 7, 2022

symbolic posted:

Part 2 > Part 1

# ? Dec 6, 2023 23:45

yum: Oct 27, 2005; _{Only good things will come

to someone like

you.}

Everything feels par for course to me. As in, whats going on now is the natural development from part 1. Nothing feels out of place to me, it�s appropriate that Fujimoto just continued from where part 1�s chapter numbers left off. It feels cohesive.

I am enjoying part 2 as much as I enjoyed part 1 (a lot). I will say that I just wish that chapters were longer. I started reading from the beginning when it was first serialized and chapter 1 was released on Shueisha, so the weekly drip feed has always been how I�ve experienced it. I keep forgetting that it�s biweekly, but the page count has remained the same as when it was weekly release.

# ? Dec 7, 2023 00:08

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

Even if Asa didn't exist in Part 2, there's no real indication Denji would be in a different situation except Asa appears to be the first person he genuinely has made any sort of connection with, even if we as the audience know that connection is tied to yet another person trying to control and use him. Both Asa and Denji are profoundly alone people in a way that almost nobody else in the world can truly connect with and that is important to the overall story. Denji isn't really a different person, it is just that he's still profoundly alone because as far as he is aware everyone in his life except his sister and Asa only interact with him because they want to use or hurt him.

Like lol denji wants to touch boobs funny but Denji's basic thing is that he is profoundly, desperately, incredibly needy for genuine human connection. He's a dumb horny teen, yeah, but even his dumb horniness isn't about wanting sex so much as it is about wanting someone he can actually interact with on a human level. The dude is focused on sex because as far as he's aware sex is the most intimate you can get with someone, but it's pretty noteworthy that Denji can be funnily horny but when push comes to shove sex doesn't actually seem that important to him. He doesn't care about touching boobs for the sake of touching boobs, his naked swim with Bomb mattered more to him that she was teaching him to swim, and in general he's just immensely and desperately thirsty to be able to just interact with people more than getting laid.

This is all a logical continuation of Part 1 where Denji spent the entire part basically learning that he's allowed to want things while at the same time learning that things he thinks he wants are not necessarily what he actually wants. Part 2 Denji is now trying to figure out what he actually wants. (Which, again, seems to largely be actual human connection. He frames it as "I want to be Chainsaw Man" but what he wants from that is being someone people like and want to be around. It is why Asa, despite their relatively limited time together, is important to him because as far as he's aware Asa is the singular person who has shown interest in Denji instead of Denji The Host Of Chainsaw Man.)

I think, without Asa, the basic requirements of a story focusing on Denji for this long (and a Denji getting cut off from Chainsaw Man activities) would lead to him having more people he could lose, just by default. He'd need people to bounce off, and Denji connects to people easier than Asa, so the readers would be more invested. I suppose someone or something else could do the same job, but Asa's the character with the role in the story, so it's Asa's role that enables Denji's isolation, even if the isolation was a goal for Fujimoto that might be accomplished in other ways if Asa didn't exist.

I'd also disagree that "sex doesn't actually seem that important to him". Touching Makima's boobs was a borderline religious experience for him, and seeing Reze naked dominated his mind for quite some time. Sex is important to Denji only in the context of personal relationships, sure, (and specific kinds of personal relationships, since sex with Power wasn't presented as something that would satisfy him, despite Power being his best friend other than Pochita) but it still really matters. Hell, he only cares about Asa because they kissed without him getting some immediate trauma. If he was somehow back in the best place he was in for part 1, with people he loved, a fulfilling job, and a happy life in general, he'd still be going "...Also, I really want sex." It's just something he wants in the proper context.

And as for the last thing... I'm pretty sure sanctioned violence is another big part of Denji liking being Chainsaw Man. The Karaoke chapter alone would be evidence of that. It's not just that Chainsaw Man represent some abstract good. Being Chainsaw Man is loving rad, and it's something Denji likes doing. (As for the Asa thing... well, even ignoring the Fumiko speech and Nayuta, there's still Aki and Power, dead or not. Even if Asa hadn't switched to obsessing over Chainsaw Man, her position isn't unique.)

# ? Dec 7, 2023 00:15

stuker: Jul 9, 2003

like a lot of folks in this thread i think, until the last 5-10 chapters or so i thought act 2 was going to be an asa-centric thing with denji and other familiar chars showing up to ground the new story in the existing universe. post-room 606 sword it seems much more like that initial focus was meant to introduce (or reintroduce in yoshida's case) the core cast of act 2 and now we're back to denji full-time. at least for the moment, because it seems like the yoru show for a while

stuker fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Dec 7, 2023

# ? Dec 7, 2023 01:40

Vise the Stompy: Mar 26, 2006; This cosmic dance; bursting decadence and withheld permissions, twists all our arms collectively. But, if sweetness can win, and it can, then I'll still be here tomorrow to high-five you yesterday, my friend....Peace!; Doctor Rope

Denji can say and even internalize that a good relationship is important for sex...... but he will still make out with a dead devil corpse if it gives him the prospect of sex with a girl he just met who touched his weiner unsolicited. Denji is a complicated guy.

# ? Dec 7, 2023 16:57

Bread Set Jettison: Jan 8, 2009

Of course part 1 is better it�s a complete story. Part 2 is extremely good and also not done.

We�re in the �shits about to get sad and surreal� part of CSM2

# ? Dec 7, 2023 22:09

PringleCreamEgg: Jul 2, 2004; Sleep, rest, do your best.

Part 2 feels much more like Fire Punch than did part 1. I can understand people not liking Part 2, it�s very different in no small part due to Denji being more overtly passive. He lacked agency in part 1 up until the end but it wasn�t as noticeable because HE didn�t realize how controlled he was since he was having fun.

This chapter was really interesting because Denji decides he wants to get his life back under control and make his own choices and is immediately met with a harsh consequence for an action he had only merely thought of. An immediate, harsh punishment for daring to even think about not being controlled.

# ? Dec 7, 2023 22:38

GloomMouse: Mar 6, 2007

I choose to believe the dogs and Meowy are fine somehow. Denji should obliterate the concept of this dude anyway

# ? Dec 8, 2023 04:39

I R SMART LIKE ROCK: Mar 10, 2003; I just want a hug.; Fun Shoe

there's still the dangling thread of Katana Man and Hammer Lady. also the glorious return of Kishibe and Kobeni

I want things to be ok but we're in the middle of an apocalypse scenario :ohdear:

# ? Dec 8, 2023 05:42

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:

there's still the dangling thread of Katana Man and Hammer Lady. also the glorious return of Kishibe and Kobeni

I want things to be ok but we're in the middle of an apocalypse scenario

It's also Chainsaw Man, which seldom plays softball. I'd be surprised if there's no dead pets here.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 08:05

usenet celeb 1992: Jun 1, 2000; he thought quoting borges would make him popular

I want to believe there's a new Public Safety mook who made a pact with the Hole Devil and got them out through the back just in time ahead of Flamethrower's attack.

I have to believe this.

Until inevitably shown otherwise.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 15:08

Lt. Lizard: Apr 28, 2013

Guys, it's OK, Reze was out walking the dogs and Meowy when Baram torched the apartment. They are all fine.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 15:18

Jerkface: May 21, 2001; HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

https://twitter.com/takopi15/status/1732680588937802043?t=TJr1XVEB4C8_XVfi9EYV-w&s=19

# ? Dec 8, 2023 19:02

Electric Phantasm: Apr 7, 2011; YOSPOS

I love that I have seen multiple pieces of Kishibe saving Meowy and The Dogs.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 20:59

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Electric Phantasm posted:

I love that I have seen multiple pieces of Kishibe saving Meowy and The Dogs.

I mean it's not impossible.

Dude took care of Meowy, was the one to give Denji his sister, and has been mysteriously not present for the part. Entirely possible he was keeping an eye on Denji and is smart enough to realize that Flamethrower Man trying to make a plate of Hot Dogs and Toe Beans would be bad for the world.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 21:04

AnoHito: May 8, 2014

Kishibe was killed offscreen weeks ago.

With Kobeni.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 21:08

Electric Phantasm: Apr 7, 2011; YOSPOS

ImpAtom posted:

I mean it's not impossible.

Dude took care of Meowy, was the one to give Denji his sister, and has been mysteriously not present for the part. Entirely possible he was keeping an eye on Denji and is smart enough to realize that Flamethrower Man trying to make a plate of Hot Dogs and Toe Beans would be bad for the world.

Kishibe has been living in one of the other apartments and he doesn't want to be bothered so that's why it's one of Nayuta's rules.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 21:09

King of Solomon: Oct 23, 2008; S S

AnoHito posted:

Kishibe was killed offscreen weeks ago.

~~With~~By Kobeni.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 21:10

Das Boo: Jun 9, 2011; There was a GHOST here.
It's gone now.

Meowy has the most insane plot armor of anyone in the entire series, so I'm really hoping she was able to cast Aura of Protection before the doggos took any AoE.

# ? Dec 8, 2023 22:54

Nuebot: Feb 18, 2013; The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Meowy took the dogs out to get McDonalds because they were all hungry and the cat is, clearly, the most responsible member of the household.

# ? Dec 9, 2023 02:17

Happy Landfill: Feb 26, 2011; I don't understand but I've also heard much worse

I'd trust Meowy with my credit card to go pick me up some nuggs from McDonald's

# ? Dec 9, 2023 04:30

Justin_Brett: Oct 23, 2012; GAMERDOME put down LOSER

If Kishibe has not been paying any attention to Denji this whole time he is probably the worst mentor ever

# ? Dec 9, 2023 05:11

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Justin_Brett posted:

If Kishibe has not been paying any attention to Denji this whole time he is probably the worst mentor ever

Hasn't died yet, though.

Figuring out that trick in the mentor business isn't to be scoffed at.

# ? Dec 9, 2023 06:30

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

chiasaur11 posted:

Hasn't died yet, though.

Figuring out that trick in the mentor business isn't to be scoffed at.

Especially in CSM, where favorite characters get killed first.

# ? Dec 9, 2023 08:01

yum: Oct 27, 2005; _{Only good things will come

to someone like

you.}

meowy probably has 9 lives anyways

# ? Dec 9, 2023 12:43

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

For me either meowy or the dogs are fine. No way it's both. Losing his last link to Power might make Denji snap :smith:

# ? Dec 9, 2023 17:06

Scholtz: Aug 24, 2007; Zorchin' some Flemoids

I don't think any of the dogs are named, right?

# ? Dec 9, 2023 21:57

Parasol Prophet: Aug 31, 2012; We Are Best Friends Now.

I was going to say Makima probably gave them names, but... now that I think of it, maybe she wouldn't have.

So I'm going to say no, they aren't. They only have the names we give them in our hearts.

# ? Dec 9, 2023 22:11

Electric Phantasm: Apr 7, 2011; YOSPOS

# ? Dec 9, 2023 22:35

Scholtz: Aug 24, 2007; Zorchin' some Flemoids

Ah, poo poo. I was hoping Meowy had a higher chance of being alive by being named.

Well, actually I guess the dogs' names lend themselves to being cooked...

# ? Dec 10, 2023 00:43

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Of course she named her dogs, how else do you discipline them using only your voice if they don't have a name.

# ? Dec 10, 2023 02:37

Scholtz: Aug 24, 2007; Zorchin' some Flemoids

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1733868779552248258

Less than $5 a volume is an insane deal

# ? Dec 11, 2023 16:24

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:32

copy: Jul 26, 2007

Scholtz posted:

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1733868779552248258

Less than $5 a volume is an insane deal

thanks for the tip goddamn

# ? Dec 11, 2023 16:37

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Chainsaw Man(ga): BURN DOGS!!!

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