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OW had pretty bad writing in some ways, the setting made little sense and they intentionally wrote the conclusion of the first planet to be frustrating. I can't say if it got better because I stopped halfway through the next world.
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Dec 22, 2023 14:38
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Outer worlds had menus and options designed for a monitor so when viewed on a TV they were like 6 point font Lol I guess it was an issue on computer too https://www.pcgamer.com/you-can-make-the-outer-worlds-tiny-text-bigger-with-an-ini-tweak/
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Dec 22, 2023 14:52
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Tiny Timbs posted:It's not like Starfield was foisted upon them and they only worked on it begrudgingly. I have no reason to think they'll treat TES6 differently, and can only hope they've learned whatever lesson they needed to. Maybe established settings work better with BGS, fantasy with TES and Fallout with... Fallout. I am intetested to see what they end up doing with SF.
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Dec 22, 2023 15:20
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I mean they talk about capital-C Creators; given the game is already going meta as text instead of subtext I just assumed they're doing a "It's the developers, oh my god the video game is a video game" without actually spelling it out It's definitely a "you're living in a simulation" type game. Tankbuster posted:Why would TES6 be even more incomplete than starfield? The handcrafted parts of starfield are fine and I don't think bethesda is gonna use their cutting edge tech to create daedric realms for folks to explore. This is how I feel, sort of, too. There are a lot of things I stumble on in the game that were clearly crafted with a lot of detailed care. tadashi fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 15:24
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The three big problems with Starfield is that there's no contiguous hand crafted world, the writing is uneven, incomplete and often just bad, and the mechanics and systems don't come together to make a satisfying gameplay experience. In ES6, the first probably won't be a problem, the second probably will, and so what's really up in the air is the third.
Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 16:23
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I think they hosed up character progression enough in Starfield that they know they need to do better in ES6. It’s not like those systems have ever been fantastic in their games; they just have to not be actively annoying.
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Dec 22, 2023 16:27
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Rinkles posted:I think they hosed up character progression enough in Starfield that they know they need to do better in ES6. It’s not like those systems have ever been fantastic in their games; they just have to not be actively annoying. I mean... Fallout 4.
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Dec 22, 2023 17:56
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The skill system was a weird mix of Fallout and Skyrim, you sort of learn by doing but there's no skill level, only perks.
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Dec 22, 2023 17:57
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Sandepande posted:The skill system was a weird mix of Fallout and Skyrim, you sort of learn by doing but there's no skill level, only perks. Even then the worst part was the cliff introduced by hard locking elements like spaceship thrusters and boost packs behind perks. With skill levels you have a high chance to fail but you can still use the skill. In Starfield stuff like “moving your ship to the right” and “turning on the jetpack that is one of three parts of your costume” are hard locked behind spending a point from a level up. That feels incredibly bad compared to just sucking at something.
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Dec 22, 2023 18:08
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It's been a while since I played vanilla Fallout 4 but I feel like it wasn't great mechanically but was still better than Starfield. No? Is Starfield basically the exact same game in terms of the ground based exploration and I'm just less forgiving now?
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Dec 22, 2023 18:17
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Jack B Nimble posted:It's been a while since I played vanilla Fallout 4 but I feel like it wasn't great mechanically but was still better than Starfield. No? Is Starfield basically the exact same game in terms of the ground based exploration and I'm just less forgiving now? The big differences are no VATS and the addition of the jetpack, otherwise the core on foot gameplay is mostly the same, yes. Fallout 4 was pretty bad and Starfield just builds on that rather than TES.
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Dec 22, 2023 18:34
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fallout 4 is way, way better than starfield
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Dec 22, 2023 18:43
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Yeah I think you could take Starfield exactly as it is mechanically and if I could have rambled through a sprawling network of industrial outposts on the surface of Vectera for an hour or two before Barret showed up, I'd have been much happier. I remember, before Starfield cane out, I Was pretty sure a ship would land, dock, crash, or orbit wherever you started, and that's how they would accommodate players from different backgrounds starting in different places. And I expected to take the colonist background and spend the first hours exploring my own little planet, killing and cooking wildlife, making additions to the little house. Basically doing stuff like the LIST settlers do in that one side quest. I assumed the planet would be, well, contiguous and hand made and just very little. Outer Wilds showed me you could have very, very, very small planets and they'd still feel OK. A small moon the size of a Skyrim Hold wouldn't seem comically curved while you were on it, I don't think. You only really notice how round the world's are in Outer Wilds with elevation. Edit - Like, if the planet was a proc genned surface (like it is now) , and only had a dozen PoIs total on the whole planet, but you would hop in your ship and fly over to them like no man's sky, or fly up to the old cantankerous space station that houses yiur communications equipment and clear our the whomp rats or whatever... that's all you needed! I wouldda slapped Game of the Year on it Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 18:56
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I beat this game recently and its by far the worst of Bethesda's main series releases. I did not complete the UC or Freestar questlines, but finished the other major plots. Enough has been said about the boring setting and disjointed world, so I'll talk about the gameplay. Combat is not fun or engaging, even compared to other Bethesda games. One reason is the lack of enemy variety or changes in their tactics. I think I counted 5 enemy types in my story: shooting human, melee human, sentry robot, burrowing alien, and terrormorph. With the exception of the latter, my tactics did not ever change. At best, there were some interesting combat environments to jetpack around, but most foes never took advantage of it. Even Fallout 3 did better on this front. The other problem is the lack of meaningful advancement. After I grabbed the Mantis armor pretty early on, I had zero reason to ever change my suit. I changed my weapon loadout once during the game, when I acquired a katana on Neon. With most of the perks just being % increases to damage, you rarely feel like you're doing anything new. I was also never compelled to engage with colony management. I didn't dig too deeply, but there never seemed to be a quest or motivation to set one up. Correct me if I'm wrong though - maybe I'll poke around for it if I ever return to a modded version of this game.
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Dec 22, 2023 18:59
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DarkLich posted:. With most of the perks just being % increases to damage, you rarely feel like you're doing anything new. It also heavily favors a gun based character since you’re double dipping on +dmg for gun type and +dog for damage type. That said you did miss the literal only good quest e with the UC one, and even that had a lot of problems with the writing/ending.
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Dec 22, 2023 19:20
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maybe it's just me, but it's immediately unappealing to work for the UC. kinda like how I still haven't played a legion or stormcloak to this day
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Dec 22, 2023 19:36
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I started that quest before I left Jemison so I only ran into the citizenship stuff on that quest. Theyre also less transparently monstrous than the legion is and it’s hard to tell how dark they’re supposed to be because the writing for this game is loving incoherent so I think the order you do stuff in will color that. I thought they were the federation from Star Trek at first but it turns out they aren’t except for when they are.
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Dec 22, 2023 19:39
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But regardless of your opinion of the UC itself, it really is the only quest line that has any broader stakes and that it seems like anyone gave even the tiniest poo poo about.
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Dec 22, 2023 19:41
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hawowanlawow posted:maybe it's just me, but it's immediately unappealing to work for the UC. kinda like how I still haven't played a legion or stormcloak to this day I finally did the civil war missions, as a stormcloak. It's ok I guess, as you go through the war and the dragon quest threads you can switch around the jarls and invade each city. The "battles" (10-20 guys come at you and your allies in a couple waves) are a little underwhelming now, but they were probably awesome when it came out.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:48
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DarkLich posted:I was also never compelled to engage with colony management. I didn't dig too deeply, but there never seemed to be a quest or motivation to set one up. Correct me if I'm wrong though - maybe I'll poke around for it if I ever return to a modded version of this game. Nah, there isn’t. If you don’t find outpost building fun for its own sake, there’s no reason to do it at all. I think it’s probably a vestigial thing from when the game was far more survival oriented like No Man’s Sky, but they’d already developed it enough to leave it in the final version.
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Dec 23, 2023 01:13
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They didn't develop them enough to have non-janky controls.
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Dec 23, 2023 01:17
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https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/...hare&utm_term=1 Well what do you know. The engine is more than capable of essentially seamless transitions between cells. Tiny Timbs posted:It's not like Starfield was foisted upon them and they only worked on it begrudgingly. I have no reason to think they'll treat TES6 differently, and can only hope they've learned whatever lesson they needed to. I don't think that the game that takes place in a fixed geographic area will have the issues of "there's so many planets that our POIs start looping." ImpAtom posted:I mean... Fallout 4. You mean the game where you can build characters that can do cool poo poo if you build characters for it? I like pooping out nearly empty cores while jetpacking around tyvm. Ugly In The Morning posted:Even then the worst part was the cliff introduced by hard locking elements like spaceship thrusters and boost packs behind perks. Because that was half the "substantial criticism" when it came to character progression in previous games - especially fallout 4. You could use power armor right off the bat but then that was bad because power armor was supposed to be endgame stuff instead of an alternate way of playing the game. Turns out doing tedious poo poo like jumping in a corner to level up atheletics isn't really riveting gameplay. Of course which begs the question of why can't other characters drive the space ship for us. Tankbuster fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Dec 23, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 01:40
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Jack B Nimble posted:It's been a while since I played vanilla Fallout 4 but I feel like it wasn't great mechanically but was still better than Starfield. No? Is Starfield basically the exact same game in terms of the ground based exploration and I'm just less forgiving now? Depends. Fallout 4's core gameplay of loot-upgrade-survive was both very intuitive, fun and had a very well made handcrafted world in which it took place. Mechanically, starfield is strictly better because of the mantling system and mobility due to boostpacks. Its just all the combat will take place in well made dungeons that start to feel the same - or sparse surfaces where you you don't need the mechanical improvements that starfield adds compared to fallout 4.
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Dec 23, 2023 02:01
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OddObserver posted:They didn't develop them enough to have non-janky controls. I found the controls are a lot better (not perfect, but better) if you rebind the use key to F, letting you set up proper symmetry with Q/E. Whoever was setting up the defaults either didn't want to or wasn't allowed to move it so everything got hosed up trying to work around that.
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Dec 23, 2023 02:34
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Tankbuster posted:I don't think that the game that takes place in a fixed geographic area will have the issues of "there's so many planets that our POIs start looping." We don't know where the game takes place. Maybe not, or maybe they'll try to represent multiple different parts of Tamriel and run into the same issue.
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Dec 23, 2023 03:10
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and spend more time making tilesets? lol.
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Dec 23, 2023 03:32
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It takes place across one thousand procedurally generated islands
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Dec 23, 2023 04:22
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this procgen stuff was definitely a trial for a possible return to the to a daggerfall-esque procgen model for TES6 since that game is basically a direct sequel to daggerfall  of course it didn't work out so we're going to see the scale of hammerfell shrink over 100x what it was in Daggerfall
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Dec 23, 2023 04:31
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Pretty jealous that Todd Howard got TWO new bosses for Christmas. Very fortunate.
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Dec 23, 2023 05:17
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Kaewan posted:I don’t think bgs ever really got fallout. I’d be happy to see anyone else give it a go at this point. I agree however at this point there are good alternatives. Wasteland. Encased. Hell I didn't know anything about Encased but bought a copy on GOG and wow. Not perfect but really hits the spot for that post apocalyptic feel. Ooh. Death Trash, though arguable a different type of game is also quite nice. Had to remember what it was called. edit2 - UnderRail. DancingShade fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Dec 23, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 06:01
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Tankbuster posted:Because that was half the "substantial criticism" when it came to character progression in previous games - especially fallout 4. You could use power armor right off the bat but then that was bad because power armor was supposed to be endgame stuff instead of an alternate way of playing the game. Turns out doing tedious poo poo like jumping in a corner to level up atheletics isn't really riveting gameplay. Nah I think jetpacks are pretty different to that, honestly. Either they're a fundamental piece of kit, or they're not. Upgrading the performance with skill points is fine, but locking the jetpack entirely behind a skill point makes no sense at all. Make it an end-game thing and design the game around not having it, or hand it out immediately and design the game around using it in interesting/creative ways. Don't give it players immediately, and then lock actually using it behind skill points. If you want to make it a bit more special or exclusive, lock it behind a short and easy quest chain or something. Maybe you have to protect an outpost from a gang of spacers terrorising the farmers with jetpacks! Or help a jetpack company develop a new model (though we do that with the spaceship company and lol that quest chain sucks)
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Dec 23, 2023 06:58
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What if they just handwaved it and said the universe is really small in Starfield, so you just actually sailed around on your spaceship and you could go from Akila City to New Atlantis in like 3-4 minutes of traveling and there might be random encounters on the way or handcrafted points of interest that you'd actually just find naturally since you're flying the ship from place to place. I really think the only way to actually DO an open-world space game in this particular style is to figure out a way to keep the continuous roaming like that.
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Dec 23, 2023 07:00
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Ugly In The Morning posted:But regardless of your opinion of the UC itself, it really is the only quest line that has any broader stakes and that it seems like anyone gave even the tiniest poo poo about. It’s just weird that none of the factions were really likeable or interesting to drive you to want to do their quests. UC are authoritarian technocrats like the Brotherhood of Steel but without any of their quirks, but at least their faction quests are proactive ones that change the state of the galaxy. Freestar and Ryujin are just different flavours of oligarchy whose quests are deckchair rearranging.
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Dec 23, 2023 11:26
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Ryujin and Crimson Fleet felt like they were collectively the Bethesda Required space versions of the thieves guild I will say that I partway through the last mission I was expecting the CF questline to end in a very different way-- the logs on the ship about "rerouting the credstick's chests EM protections" made me think the Quest Punchline was going to be an analogue of the old Fallout 2 bottlecap thing, where Kryx and now Delgado had both sacrificed themselves on the altar of obsession with nothing more than a freighter full of wiped-clean plastic chips to show for it. The fact that it really was played straight after that point felt like a let-down in comparison, rip
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Dec 23, 2023 11:35
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quote:Suddenly, a notification buzzes on my wristwatch: my traveling partner, Andreja, wants to speak with me. I stop near a towering crystal formation to give her time to catch up. When we talk, I can see the pain in her eyes and hear the emotion in her voice. She reveals a secret about her past, something that makes it hard for her to fit in with our colleagues in Constellation, a group of explorers dedicated to tracking down mysterious artifacts hidden across the universe.
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Dec 23, 2023 14:04
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oh this is an actual review and not a shitpost well, it's nice it improved someone's quality of life
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Dec 23, 2023 14:45
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Talkie Toaster posted:The Crimson Fleet line was second place, pretty interesting stakes. in the space future there is only neoliberalism and in a way it's a very realistic portrayal of the absolute lack of soul in anything, a feeling of emptiness
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Dec 23, 2023 15:03
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Regarde Aduck posted:in the space future there is only neoliberalism and in a way it's a very realistic portrayal of the absolute lack of soul in anything, a feeling of emptiness
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Dec 23, 2023 16:07
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Regarde Aduck posted:in the space future there is only neoliberalism and in a way it's a very realistic portrayal of the absolute lack of soul in anything, a feeling of emptiness Again, I point to "unnamed crew members who are unused are deleted from the universe". A disposable workforce. This poo poo is Art, man.
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Dec 23, 2023 17:00
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the game is less interested in doing political analysis than it is in doing woowoo stuff in a sci-fi skin. Tbh bethesda has generally been better at the latter than the former.
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Dec 23, 2023 17:27
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