|
ImpAtom posted:
It ultimately is down to just this aspect. I think in that regard the difference is that Takaba's power made for a more interesting encounter thanks to it warping reality and trapping the mind but also because it let him meet and exceed Kenjaku in some areas. Whereas Higuruma's power is more geared towards exploring a character and the reaction to their own past actions and this doesn't work for Sukuna. Yuji was able to regret the deaths caused by Sukuna because of his guilt over being the vessel. But he can also be dumb about trying to cover up underaged gambling and the fight could be more or less even even with his cursed energy confiscated. Sukuna doesn't give a crap what he did because that's his whole character. He won't debate the law or engage in the trial because there's no reason for him to similarly fear losing any of his techniques because he's a prodigy at cursed energy manipulation and barriers. Gege could have taken away his techniques and Sukuna would just be punching Yuji into tomorrow instead of using cleave. It would have taken multiple trials to potentially leave Sukuna with just his body sans any cursed energy but there's no time for that and it wouldn't be as interesting as Hakari spamming his own domain where there are other things that can happen inside beyond Sukuna saying "the charges officer?". So that's why Higuruma can be boiled down to his Executioner's blade and talent as a sorcerer, it's the only thing about his kit that can interact with Sukuna on a story level. Kenjaku would have made for a more interesting target for Judgeman with the excuse that the team wanted to remove kenjaku's ability to control cursed spirits as a way to hinder his activation of his final plans. The executioner's sword would just be an extra perk if they could remove Kenny as well. Yuta is better suited towards a scrap and shouldn't have been used as an assassin.
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 16:18 |
|
|
Tosk posted:Yes, it would've been cool for the initial arc to be more drawn out to give weight to everything after, but JJK is Akutami's first full length series. They published 3 oneshots and then JJK 0 prior to JJK itself. I'm sure that the demands of a serial medium like a weekly Jump series can rapidly cause your story to go out of control compared with whatever outline of a plot you go into the project with, and most mangaka don't seem to want to go the Bleach/One Piece/Naruto route. This is exactly what I'm feeling too. He saw where everything was going and decided he simply didn't want to be that guy. And who can blame him? The commitment required to be another Oda or Tabata is insane. He panicked and tore it all down. I don't blame him one bit but man; the world of JJK is (was) one of my favorite premises ever. I am extremely excited for Gege's next work, and I am also really excited for what can be done with the JJK universe in, potentially, different hands.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:20
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/gojouify/status/1739779092621189177?t=fASlp_RF24UUvutkn76M_A&s=19
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:32
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:It ultimately is down to just this aspect. See, I don't really agree with that. Higuruma's power explicitly is something where you can argue against it and depends on the evidence he gets to potentially get a verdict. Sukuna arguing why he isn't guilty of something would be deeply interesting and allow him to express his own thoughts or come up with a lie or really anything. It isn't a flawless sure-hit power, he just gets one piece of evidence and figuring out what that evidence could be is the interesting part of his power set. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:34
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:https://twitter.com/gojouify/status/1739779092621189177?t=fASlp_RF24UUvutkn76M_A&s=19 holy poo poo  Didn't Megumi try to kill himself by summoning makora when Todo was tossing him around early on and asking everyone what their favorite type of girl is, or am I misremembering that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:37
|
|
|
It would be interesting, but it's true that it would also be out of character. He has never, ever showed one iota of consideration towards "the rules." I agree the whole trial could have been executed better and honestly I would prefer it had just succeeded as intended and Sukuna was too strong but it still proved a major contribution to sealing his arsenal, but oh well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:38
|
|
|
Taima posted:holy poo poo He doesn't do the hand gestures so it's hard to say, but he does get incredibly loving serious 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:44
|
|
|
Regardless of anything hiruguma is still my goat
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:50
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:See, I don't really agree with that. Higuruma's power explicitly is something where you can argue against it and depends on the evidence he gets to potentially get a verdict. Sukuna arguing why he isn't guilty of something would be deeply interesting and allow him to express his own thoughts or come up with a lie or really anything. It isn't a flawless sure-hit power, he just gets one piece of evidence and figuring out what that evidence could be is the interesting part of his power set. But why would Sukuna argue anything? He literally doesn't acknowledge the law because it's either his way or the highway. That is how he lived in two lives now. Him being more interested in the Sword is 100% in character but his character is boring now that he isn't a looming threat in Yuji's soul and has his full autonomy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
There's more to Sukuna and it involves his thorough refusal to engage with Yuji.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:56
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:He doesn't do the hand gestures so it's hard to say, but he does get incredibly loving serious oooh that's right, thanks for posting the page! I was inspired by your good work and decided to go watch that part of season 1 too (Episode 8 around the 10 minute mark for the record), and yeah it's almost exactly like the manga. He's going to summon makora though right? I don't know what else could possibly be implied by his posturing in that moment. It really feels like he's about to kill himself over getting punched by Todo, for real, that dude is nuts. It's possibly even more nuts that his narrative arc is currently that he failed to learn his curse technique, immediately got shown up 100x by Sukuna's interpretation of 10 Shadows, and basically died without even finishing his (heavily foreshadowed) Gashadokuro domain. Then gets used to kill his own mentor, who is also the only straight shot at killing the antagonist. Woof. Pierson posted:Possibly Makora wasn't written at that point and Gege was just teasing a very strong tenth shadow. It is extremely funny though since it's left us with "any minor inconvenience makes me pull out the Death General". Ah, that's a good point. I can see that. Taima fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:01
|
|
|
Possibly Makora wasn't written at that point and Gege was just teasing a very strong tenth shadow. It is extremely funny though since it's left us with "any minor inconvenience makes me pull out the Death General".
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:05
|
|
|
It couldnt just be the elephant? I dont think megumi is psychotic enough to release mahoraga at high school.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:05
|
|
|
Taima posted:oooh that's right, thanks for posting the page! I was inspired by your good work and decided to go watch that part of season 1 too (Episode 8 around the 10 minute mark for the record), and yeah it's almost exactly like the manga. I was thinking it could possibly be his DE, but looking up it looks like he doesn't get the idea until fighting the special grade. (He was planning on summoning Makora before changing his mind though.) So yeah he was definitely about to summon it against Todo. Also the flashback in that chapter reminded me of this character joke from the baseball episode  Dude really can't help himself lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:There's more to Sukuna and it involves his thorough refusal to engage with Yuji. yeah he calls yuji a boring brat because yuji is a throwback to when humans and curses lived in harmony and sukuna was the first person to use cursed energy to develop complicated techniques or something. classic example of the anime subtext that the protagonist is special because their perspective/way of life predates a thousand years of cultural development and the antagonist is the absolute peak of that development
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:13
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:But why would Sukuna argue anything? He literally doesn't acknowledge the law because it's either his way or the highway. That is how he lived in two lives now. Him being more interested in the Sword is 100% in character but his character is boring now that he isn't a looming threat in Yuji's soul and has his full autonomy. That is why it would be interesting to force him into a position where he has to. Even if his argument is "I am as far above humans as humans are above ants, and you do not obey the laws of ants" that says something about the character that would not be seen in a normal situation. Sukuna being able to brute force everything is why it's interesting when he can't. Yuji and Sukuna forced to argue with the literal Insta-Kill Sword lingering over his head is exactly the sort of thing weird powers like Judgeman are made for. That makes the Curse Weapon Removal feel like an actual counterplay from Sukuna. But considering how rapidly we're moving through stuff I expect there just aren't the chapters to devote to it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:17
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:I was thinking it could possibly be his DE, but looking up it looks like he doesn't get the idea until fighting the special grade. (He was planning on summoning Makora before changing his mind though.) So yeah he was definitely about to summon it against Todo. Hah, I had completely forgotten that part of the baseball game, good catch. The best part of that game is when Todo goes up to bat and is immediately knocked out by an intentional ball to the face, while Itadori freaks out and everyone just goes "nice pitch! Nice pitch Maki! Really it wasn't bad!" lmao Man, I love season 1 so much. There's a parallel universe out there where Gege kept going with the original premise, that is a good universe. Maybe they can throw that manga our way 
Taima fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:23
|
|
|
There wasn't any lawyer stuff because the point of the fight was Higuruma meeting Yuji's gaze as he dies, tossing him the sword that can save Megumi hopefully. And doing trial stuff would just be adding extra chaff to a fight that isn't really going to be about that in the long run. So probably for the best that it didn't spend much time on it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:25
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:There wasn't any lawyer stuff because the point of the fight was Higuruma meeting Yuji's gaze as he dies, tossing him the sword that can save Megumi hopefully. Chaff is fine? Adding flavor and texture to a series is what helps make it shine. Like we just had an example of a multi-chapter comedy sketch show power whose sole purpose was to distract a guy so he could get decapitated. They could have cut that down to like a five panel distracted but they didn't and it owned! At the end of the day I think JJK is at its most fun when it is weird-rear end powers clashing where everyone has insta-kill techniques and insane conditions and the counterplay is critical. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:30
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Chaff is fine? Adding flavor and texture to a series is what helps make it shine. Like we just had an example of a multi-chapter comedy sketch show power whose sole purpose was to distract a guy so he could get decapitated. They could have cut that down to like a five panel distracted but they didn't and it owned! Chaff CAN BE fine but I think giving Sukuna a twelth platform to laugh in everyone's face about the concept of human rules existing to him, the beast of gluttony, especially after the whole of the fight with Gojo and with Lightning Lad and then Ice Enby's chat with Hakari barely pages before it would be just trodding over ground in a pointless and clumsy way. Honestly the quick looks between him and Yuji, the hand off and his words echoing Nanami to Yuji ending on him declaring himself not a cog in this machine but an honest to god Jujutsu Sorcerer is so well paced and comes after so much build up with Yuji that delaying it further would muddy more than its worth.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:46
|
|
|
I just kinda think that if you do a bunch of trial stuff it probably wouldn't play too much into the ending of the fight and you'd kinda be left wondering "huh, why'd we spend so much time in the trial only for it to not really matter too much." Like yeah, it'd be nice to get more characterisation for Sukuna but I respect the like I dunno restraint of a decently paced 4 chapter fight. And I mean, Takaba vs Kenjaku was also a well paced 4 chapter fight, there wasn't much chaff to it at all. It's just that fight was about using the fleshing out of a goofy comedy character to better characterise a central villain, while this fight is about using the development of a secondary character to put some focus on his relationship with the main protag and use it to bring our protag back into a central position with this fight. Not, that i'm against the idea of the trial being a bigger deal but I get why it didn't get much play and I don't think the fight really suffered too much from it beyond one chapter ending being pretty weak.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:That is why it would be interesting to force him into a position where he has to. Even if his argument is "I am as far above humans as humans are above ants, and you do not obey the laws of ants" that says something about the character that would not be seen in a normal situation. Sukuna being able to brute force everything is why it's interesting when he can't. Yuji and Sukuna forced to argue with the literal Insta-Kill Sword lingering over his head is exactly the sort of thing weird powers like Judgeman are made for. That makes the Curse Weapon Removal feel like an actual counterplay from Sukuna. Sukuna interrupting Higuruma during the opening argument is him doing just that though. Sukuna already talks about how he's above people etc etc multiple times across the series as well as his general demeanor. Just look at how he talked to Jogo and Kashimo in their afterlives, he talks down to them for trying to do things like form bonds and understand other people. It's the core theme about Sukuna's strength and why people like Yuta and even Gojo will ultimately fall short. What else does he or the story need to say at this point other than "get on with it"? He's not going to start trying to justify himself or give backstory to his life, that's not in character with him either. Prolonging that kind of trial won't make cursed technique removal be more or less impactful as counterplay either. For that to work it would have to bring Sukuna to a level where he isn't going to roll everyone and suffer no damage from their combined attacks. So unfortunately the only two things that could even touch Sukuna are the sword and maybe Mei-Mei's crows.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 23:53
|
|
|
No Wave posted:It couldnt just be the elephant? I dont think megumi is psychotic enough to release mahoraga at high school. I don't think the 'taming' ritual normally causes that much damage. In all likelihood, it would one-shot Megumi and his opponent, then vanish. The reason the Shibuya mess happened is that Sukuna showed up to save Megumi and then used Malevolent Shrine to nuke it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 01:14
|
|
|
basically all of this is because sukuna is written to be boring as hell. The comedy bit was solid not just because it was better plotted and more conceptually interesting but because kenjaku is a character that can actually engage with the world around him. it wouldn't matter if you actually stuck sukuna in the trial for a lengthy amount of time, because there's no way you'd get anything but a staunch refusal to engage. the only interesting thing he's doing is not engaging yuji, which is to say the most interesting thing about him at the moment is what he's not doing. also his attacks don't even look cool. his hair? wack. his gear? wack. his jewelr e: also it's the height of authorial flailing to have sukuna declare right before he kills a guy "wow maybe this is....the only guy as good as me??" that is not how you successfully recover investment after your twelve chapter megafight ended in a sad trombone noise Valentin fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 01:22
|
|
|
Sukuna is funny and cool as hell.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 01:24
|
|
|
Yeah , I don't find Sukuna boring at all. The idea of a character so utterly self involved, so utterly above humanity despie being a human because he truly understands himself and what he desires is fascinating as a character. He achieved enlightenment and his answer to it is that he'll he'll on his pleasure and displeasure and nothing else. There is no greater meaning to be found for him other than satiating his desires.Someone in the thread asked earlier what's his goal and he doesn't seem to be big on Kenjaku's plan, so why are they even fighting him. Well that's the point really, his existence means that at any time , the people you love can just be wiped out because of his mood that given day. He's a walking hurricane and you don't want something like that walking around, especially when you can't control what will provoke him at any given time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 01:35
|
|
|
an actual hurricane would be substantially more interesting as the manga's final villain, because it would no longer be possible to pretend that merely being a hurricane lent it depth or meaning
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 01:39
|
|
|
Sukuna rules.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 01:43
|
|
|
The worst part about this is that it's about what I expected. Curious to see what the sword will do, it's anybody's guess if it will be stronger or weaker now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 03:11
|
|
|
Asuron posted:The idea of a character so utterly self involved, so utterly above humanity despie being a human because he truly understands himself and what he desires is fascinating as a character.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 03:14
|
|
|
Valentin posted:an actual hurricane would be substantially more interesting as the manga's final villain, because it would no longer be possible to pretend that merely being a hurricane lent it depth or meaning No Wave posted:I have trouble believing you actually find this concept fascinating. Sorry about the bad reads. Sukuna's cool as heck and fun.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 03:29
|
|
|
No Wave posted:I have trouble believing you actually find this concept fascinating. Why? The concept of self-enlightenment through selfishness, the inverse of how it's normally reached and how the author approaches a being like this would behave in our universe is fascinating, especially with the strong buddhist themes that run through the story. I think the idea that you can't see why that would be interesting to read about is harder to understand Asuron fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Dec 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 03:35
|
|
|
yeah i’d be cool with the “Sukuna is an unstoppable force of nature” thing if the story hadn’t already showcased this multiple times up to this point. We get it already. He’s the best, hes the strongest. There’s nothing particularly interesting about him just powering through everyone for like 50 chapters now
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 03:39
|
|
|
The same reason why Sukuna can't meaningfully engage with Higuruma's ability is why he is boring now. There's nothing for him to do but kill everyone around him and then go gently caress off to chill with Urame and wait for something new to catch his fancy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 03:46
|
|
|
Asuron posted:Why? The concept of self-enlightenment through selfishness, the inverse of how it's normally reached and how the author approaches a being like this would behave in our universe is fascinating, especially with the strong buddhist themes that run through the story.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 03:49
|
|
|
No Wave posted:Speaking truthfully, I don't think enlightenment is real so Sukuna is just a guy who likes to fight and kill people using magic. I mean... you don't have to find it real to engage with a concept being presented in a story.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 04:11
|
|
|
No Wave posted:Speaking truthfully, I don't think enlightenment is real so Sukuna is just a guy who likes to fight and kill people using magic. I mean at that rate I don't think like... most of the underpinning philosophies of the cast and narrative work at that level of rejecting the premise. Also the parallels between Higuruma and Sukuna centering on Yuji these last few chapters has been really strong and it's nice to see it come full circle finally. A man so weighed down by his own regret and sin he cannot even bring himself to look the protagonist in the eye because he sees something pure in the boy that shames him fighting a man without baggage and attachment on purpose who sees explicitly less than no value in Yuji and is actively trying to ignore him throughout the fight. Higuruma cleanses himself of that sin and worry about pushing Yuji forward in a way on he can, passing the baton and lets Yuji state as a declaration of war "I am a Sorcerer" as he finally forces Sukuna to turn. It's all very good. The losing 2 limbs compared to 2 extra limbs is pushing it a bit much but this is JJK everyone is going to get maimed eventually. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Dec 28, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 04:18
|
|
|
Sukuna is more interesting than original Broly, less interesting than current Broly that's a low bar
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 04:58
|
|
|
I hope sukuna wins and the series ends with him being really bored with nothing else to do.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 05:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 16:18 |
|
|
Nuebot posted:I hope sukuna wins and the series ends with him being really bored with nothing else to do. He explicitly said he won't get bored.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2023 05:24
|
|
