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It still baffles me that USA code doesn't require GFCIs on the entire house. That's been a thing here since the early 70s, when every circuit (except for the washing machine, early post war washers were hella leaky) had to be protected with a GFCI. Starting in the 90s, the whole house had to be GFCI protected, because by that time all 'wet' appliances had sufficiently good isolation to be able to be used with the 30mA GFCIs that were the standard. Fridges don't typically trip things here. In cases i have seen, nuisance trips are exceedingly rare. Legit trips are mostly caused by outdoors electrics (for instance a backyard lamp that got infested with ants so badly they caused a ground fault, and what also often happens is junction boxes filled with either condensation water (lack of drain hole) or rain water (badly installed grommets). Both those cases were the work of a 'handyman', it happens a lot that people gently caress up their outdoors wiring. Also anything with a heating element that's worn out and gone porous, and sucked itself full with atmospheric moisture might trip it. Easy fix: couple tenners and you have a new heating element. True nuisance trips can be casued by variable frequency drive RFI filters, and heaps upon heaps of switching power supplies with filters, all adding up. Never had that, but some people have so many devices that each pass half a mA or so, that eventually it adds up to 20-30mA (the approximate trip range of a 30mA GFCI, it may trip before reaching 30mA but not any higher). Due to absent LOTO protocols a contractor got zapped in my brother's house, when my brother tried to turn on the power after asking it was okay (he got told yes, contractor didn't ask which circuits exactly he wanted to switch on). But it never got worse than a nasty zap, because the GFCI tripped instantly. It easily could've gotten worse, if he was working on a cable and grabbed it when it got live, cramping his hand around the wire etc. I can only say 'Find a way to GFCI protect your entire home that is compliant with your local code' because these things save lives, as well as prevent leaky electronics from causing a fire when there's significant leakage current in the multi-amp range that is not enough to trip a breaker, but plenty to make a lot of heat. AFCIs may also work in that last case, though a ground fault does not necessarily involve an arc fault. I hope one day AFCIs will also be introduced here, because i think that may very well have a highly significant influence on the number of house fires here. LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jan 2, 2024 |
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Jan 2, 2024 11:12
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Freedom. And for some things the USA lags far behind the rest of the world, and others we're ahead. We're finally seeing CAFCI for lots of branches, and GFCI everywhere. Our GFCI is also much lower trip current than the rest of the world - 5mA on these breakers I'm seeing: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-QP-15-Amp-1-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker/1017263 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-QP-50-Amp-2-Pole-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker/3613358 (This is like a electric stove, oven, car charger, AC unit) This meant that lots of people saw big nuisance trips early on in GFCI adoption. (I assume they used to be higher, but I don't think they ever got to 30mA.) So much so that people talk about it today, in GFCI saves your life directly and immediately, AFCI saves your whole families life and all your stuff by preventing structure fires.
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Jan 2, 2024 18:16
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LimaBiker posted:It still baffles me that USA code doesn't require GFCIs on the entire house It's because they're not necessary. The chances of a homeowner passing 7mA across their heart for 3 seconds is pretty low in living rooms and bedrooms. There is a chance in kitchen countertop appliances, where there is water, or on bare cement floors (which will ground you as good as dirt or more) which is where they are required. We recently added dryers and outdoor heat/cool condensor units because one kid died playing hide and seek behind a dryer (though the 2020 code isn't adopted everywhere). We change the code when fire or death statistics add up. 30mA GFIs on everything is to protect against shoddy wiring or devices. Our 5mA standard protects lives. Less and less people here are spooked about GFI's. Up until the mid 2000's US GFI outlets were notorious for tripping on any inductive load, but they're not a problem anymore. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the GFI (most of it?) compared to newer appliance designs, so I would still be hesitant to GFI protect an older fridge outlet if I don't need to. That said, the alarms posted and proper GFI protection would be the ideal way to go in any garage (maybe not mine as I'm a cheap bastard).
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Jan 3, 2024 00:27
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I've had multiple instances of the GFCI catching out broken devices: - an electric kettle - An oven with a worn through wire that somehow managed to get into part of the hinge mechanism - A faulty ATX power supply - Aforementioned outside wiring - a laboratory centrifuge that vibrated itself off the workbench and had something live short out against the metal housing And probably some other things that i already forgot about.
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Jan 3, 2024 00:49
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Funny, I've lived in pre 1950s houses my entire life and never had any of these issues. Guess I'm lucky. I mostly put gfis all over just out of an abundance of caution, and not wanting to outright flaunt any codes or anything, but I've never personally seen one do it's job in the 20+ years I've been tinkering. On the industrial side of things, nobody uses gfis for anything. All the panels ive specced or seen over the years, nobody uses ground fault protection at all. Even in wet areas. UL doesn't seem to have anything to say about them in equipment as far as im aware. I don't deny gfis are safer, od course, but I didn't realize people were getting electrocuted left and right due to ground faults. Seems like something you'd hear more about. What I *do* hear about with some frequency is people just completing the circuit the old fashioned way and getting a shock. Done that a number of times myself. Anything on the secondary side of a transformer is immune to gfi breakering anyway so it can give people a false sense of security. There was a wood etching trend a while back that ended up killing somebody because they bypassed a GFI with a transformer.
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Jan 3, 2024 01:19
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Cosmik Debris posted:There was a wood etching trend a while back that ended up killing somebody because Don't gently caress around with microwave transformers GFI or not.
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Jan 3, 2024 01:30
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The philosophy here is that there need to be multiple failure points before it gets dangerous. For instance: before we had a gfci for our washing machine (located in the bathroom) it suffered from a burning out motor or heating element. It smelled like hell, and because apparently the grounding had failed, there now was voltage on the metal bits and my mother got shocked. She was fine but it scared her a lot. The repair guy later measured it and it was about half the mains voltage Normally, the ground would have prevented the metal parts from becoming live. There was still some ground connection to pull it down to 110v, but not enough to blow the fuse or to keep voltage at a safe level. In a modern installation, A gfci would have tripped either when touching the live parts (they trip within half a cycle, really quick) or with whatever leakage current still made its way to earth through the shoddy ground connection. It would also have tripped the millisecond it started burning out too badly preventing the horrid stench (and dramatically lowering the fire hazard if the washer was located elsewhere where there are more flamable materials around). In industrial settings there is so much leakage current from heavy duty RFI filters that it's impossible to effectively use gfcis there. Much more focus is given to bonding everything together with thiccc grounding straps. LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 01:32
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LimaBiker posted:The philosophy here is that there need to be multiple failure points before it gets dangerous...washing machine (located in the bathroom)...ore focus is given to bonding everything together with thiccc grounding straps. GFI protection in bedrooms and living rooms is an unnecessary failure point. We've GFI protected washing machines and bathrooms for decades.
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Jan 3, 2024 01:47
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LimaBiker posted:The philosophy here is that there need to be multiple failure points before it gets dangerous. For instance: before we had a gfci for our washing machine (located in the bathroom) it suffered from a burning out motor or heating element. It smelled like hell, and because apparently the grounding had failed, there now was voltage on the metal bits and my mother got shocked. She was fine but it scared her a lot. So the thing in your panel you're calling a "GFCI" is probably an RCD. GFCIs are designed to prevent damage to humans by tripping at <6mA of current imbalance. RCDs detect residual current leakage and have trip ratings from 30-300mA. In the US, those would be called GFPE. GFPEs are required in the US for any 1000A or greater service (in general). The US doesn't really need RCDs because we don't run ring mains and the code to have really robust grounding has been in effect for long enough that the grounding and bonding of our electrical equipment is sufficient to trip the breaker if a fault condition occurs. The fact that most electrical equipment has one live conductor and one intentionally grounded conductor (the neutral) PLUS an additional BACKUP grounding conductor means that case-energizing faults are more than normally difficult. Even on 240V equipment, it is exceptionally rare to have something installed within the last couple of decades that doesn't have a very good ground connection, plus probably the neutral wire in the plug. That said, GFPEs at 30-100mA are common for some pieces of equipment: water heaters (in some places), sump pumps, and other things that have electricity and water only barely separated, but aren't human-facing.
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Jan 3, 2024 01:51
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What i mean is the thing that senses if the sum of current through live and neutral is not almost zero. In out case, 30mA is the required trip current. 30mA is considered as the watershed between safe and dangerous to humans over here. People rarely die from electricity these days, unless they use a phone charger in the bathtub or something similarly outrageous. They feed up to 3 or 4 16a 230v circuits each and are mounted in the breaker panel. There are many names for them. Aardlekschakelaar, differentieel etc etc. Not.to be confused with an aardwachter, which only measures leakage but doesn't interrupt. That's what you might find in industrial settings here. Blackbeer posted:GFI protection in bedrooms and living rooms is an unnecessary failure point. We've GFI protected washing machines and bathrooms for decades. They don't fail here. Well, the 1970s stuff sometimes becomes too sensitive but that is fine, at 50 years old it's not unusual to replace the entire panel. Friend of mine got zapped by a Akai reel to reel tape recorder in his living room. Tripped it. Even in the living room it pays to have them if you have any device that has metal bits on it, especially things that are supposed to be safe even with a 2 prong cord (thinking of metal upright lamps) - but have somehow developed a fault. Either way, get some form of ground fault protection everywhere. They've caught out plenty of stuff here and at the places of people i know, that wouldn't necessarily have been caught out by the circuit breaker because it isn't always a hard enough short to ground to trip it. As long as the ground is okay, it will not be immediately dangerous, but when that fails or the device is for some reason used in an ungrounded outlet, it'll become dangerous. Or catch fire LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 02:28
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LimaBiker posted:There are many names for them. Aardlekschakelaar, differentieel etc etc. Not.to be confused with an aardwachter, which only measures leakage but doesn't interrupt. That's what you might find in industrial settings here. When you say "here," where do you mean? What is your standard plug? For most appliances, is one terminal of that plug deliberately earth-referenced within the building?
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Jan 3, 2024 02:37
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Oh, is this Dutch wiring? Yeah, you probably should use 30mA GFI's everywhere if you're on a system without separate grounded and grounding conductors.
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Jan 3, 2024 03:33
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Neutral is referenced to ground either at the local substation for the entire block, or at the breaker panel, depending on the exact topology of the whole block's installation, and the resistance to the actual physical earth you can get with your type of soil around your house. On sandy soil, it may very well be that you can't get it below a couple dozen ohm which is really quite bad (enough to trip a GF(C)I but not to guarantee that in case of a ground fault, the voltage will be pulled down to a safe level), and you might need to opt for getting the ground supplied by the grid maintenace company, who can have a much better, more extensive grounding system at a block substation. However, neutral can't under any circumstance be used as a replacement for ground in any devices. We got Schuko here (The Netherlands), unpolarized - but since neutral is always isolated equally well as live, this doens't have any further consequences. Our system is fairly similar to the rest of western europe. Modern houses have grounded outlets everywhere, starting in the late 90s early 2000s. But the cheap boomer-era houses haven't always been completely renovated and can still have their original electrical installation. You're allowed to do small modifications to it, but if you do something larger, you have to bring the entire house up to code and especially if you're already living in a cheap apartment for a reason, that's gonna be too drat expensive. I've had a roommate insisting on using his electric kettle with a ground fault in the living room instead of in the kitchen, because in the kitchen the outlets were grounded and it would of couse trip the ground fault protection. Sigh... Kettle made out of plastic so nothing happened, but i sure had my thoughts about that guy. Modern houses, however, have more ground fault protectors than the old stuff. While a single 30mA unit was allowed for the entire house in the late 90s, today you need to have 1 per 3 or 4 circuits, and everything including the wet devices need to be protected (cause they don't leak by default anymore).
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Jan 3, 2024 12:51
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H110Hawk posted:Don't gently caress around with microwave transformers GFI or not. Funnily enough I was (re) watching this earlier! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBeSKL9zVro At least 30 dead as of the video being made!
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Jan 3, 2024 14:12
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Funnily enough I was (re) watching this earlier! Seeing as we are probably going to be using this electricity stuff for a while yet I think there should be more education on it in schools. I bet electrocuting an elephant in the school gym would make a lasting memory.
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Jan 3, 2024 17:35
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SpeedFreek posted:Seeing as we are probably going to be using this electricity stuff for a while yet I think there should be more education on it in schools. I bet electrocuting an elephant in the school gym would make a lasting memory. I'm almost certain a kid in my physics class brought in a home made Tesla coil that used a microwave transformer (I can't think of anything else that would have been easily obtainable in 1998), I don't think the teacher had any idea of the specific danger. Maybe the kids dad was an EE or something and made it "safe", or he was just incredibly lucky. E: it can't possibly have been a microwave transformer, it must have been the windings from one or something. Powerful Two-Hander fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 17:43
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SpeedFreek posted:Seeing as we are probably going to be using this electricity stuff for a while yet I think there should be more education on it in schools. I bet electrocuting an elephant in the school gym would make a lasting memory. Honestly every kid should get a "practical Chemistry and Physics" class. Show them the basics of energy with how much 1L of water 1M off the ground generates. Then start doing the math on basic reactions in a AA alkaline battery, moving through gasoline engines, human strength, lithium, and on to a nuclear bomb reaction. Comparing all of these to the tensile strength of various common materials, including 50-100kg bags of mostly water (humans.) It was so eye opening to learn these things relative to common things which happen and how time and deformation changes how force effects various things. (Crumple zones, acceleration from 0 (hybrid cars going 0->1mph, things hitting walls and the wall going from 0->1mph + equal and opposite force, etc), the rocket equation.)
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Jan 3, 2024 17:47
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Speaking of being an easily excitable nerd... I got a copy of the stamped engineering stuff from my solar install, including the roof loading. Sorry   The roof load is for 110mph winds.  (I'm not anonymizing the whole document or pages for the roof stuff there's too much to do.)
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Jan 3, 2024 17:56
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H110Hawk posted:Speaking of being an easily excitable nerd... I got a copy of the stamped engineering stuff from my solar install, including the roof loading. Sorry aw yeah!! so there's a lot of disconnects but primarily, it's going to be the low volt rapid shutdown switch in the center. be sure that's protected, if that shorts, it fucks up critical relays in the system controller and you're plainly hosed. if the system controller is outside (it is on the plans but...y'know.), that'll also be an outdoor main panel disconnect because that 200A breaker at the top is just an Eaton CSR. the difference between a disconnect and a shutdown here being that just slapping that CSR will not turn power off but instead put into battery backup, hitting the rapid shutdown will kill the batteries and the PV. e: also, just to be clear, any one of those disconnects downstream of the system controller main will turn off either the PV or the batteries. the main panel actually isn't a disconnect as listed since it's fed downstream of it. also the comms are NOT wireless (this is a good thing, trust me) Extant Artiodactyl fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jan 3, 2024 |
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Jan 3, 2024 18:47
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Is Qmerit the complete ripoff it sounds like? I have never touched 240 before but it doesn’t sound different to install a circuit and plug. You just need to make sure things are tightened down correctly and do the calculations on if your panel can support an additional 40/50 amp circuit. I get all parts for less than $500, most of that being wire. I would get a permit and probably pay an electrician to double check my work before inspection.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:12
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Extant Artiodactyl posted:aw yeah!! so there's a lot of disconnects but primarily, it's going to be the low volt rapid shutdown switch in the center. be sure that's protected, if that shorts, it fucks up critical relays in the system controller and you're plainly hosed. if the system controller is outside (it is on the plans but...y'know.), that'll also be an outdoor main panel disconnect because that 200A breaker at the top is just an Eaton CSR.  Yeah I sort of assumed the rapid shutdown switch + meter-main breaker would be sufficient to de-energize the system, I don't strictly understand why they wouldn't have that relay do both. I guess so I can draw from batteries if the PV needs to be shutdown? It seems like "to kill the house" that rapid shutdown switch is in the ideal position to kill everything, then you either yank the meter or hit the 200A in the meter-main to make sure the utility isn't feeding in. I wonder if I saw the installer portal if the IQ Controller system could be configured to have that switch be a primary kill switch for everything. I agree, very glad to have wired LV signalling to the micro inverters and batteries. gently caress praying wireless works. The utility I think signals shutdown over z-wave/zigbee/whatever the smart meters use but that's their risk to take. If it doesn't they can come have my meter, or hit the meter-main and lock out my panel. Really I wish the meter could be locked out physically open remotely so they didn't need to rely on my solar system shutting down. Then the grid would be isolated from me feeding in my generation/storage. And yes it's all outside except the "sub panel" in the garage.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:25
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Calidus posted:Is Qmerit the complete ripoff it sounds like? I have never touched 240 before but it doesn’t sound different to install a circuit and plug. You just need to make sure things are tightened down correctly and do the calculations on if your panel can support an additional 40/50 amp circuit. I get all parts for less than $500, most of that being wire. I would get a permit and probably pay an electrician to double check my work before inspection. Are you asking if paying for a licensed electrician to come to your home to install a high amperage device is a "ripoff"? What "calculations" do you think you need to do to see if your panel can "support" this circuit?
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Jan 3, 2024 20:48
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Motronic posted:Are you asking if paying for a licensed electrician to come to your home to install a high amperage device is a "ripoff"? GM gives you the option of $1000 credit on having a 40 amp circuit installed by Qmerit. I have just seen horrible quotes online from Qmerit, because they know people have some sort credit from GM when they jack up the price. I have no issues paying my regular electrician to do stuff. Electric load calculation is what I was referring to, I have a 200 amp panel and the previous home owner had a hot tub so I am guessing i can support a new 40 amp circuit but I feel like I should do the calculation.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:58
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bought a generator. plumbing it for NG and wiring a 50amp inlet for it this weekend  gently caress generac lol
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Jan 3, 2024 22:33
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Calidus posted:GM gives you the option of $1000 credit on having a 40 amp circuit installed by Qmerit. I have just seen horrible quotes online from Qmerit, because they know people have some sort credit from GM when they jack up the price. I have no issues paying my regular electrician to do stuff. What is a Qmerit and what are you thinking is a "ripoff" here?
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Jan 3, 2024 23:10
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Shifty Pony posted:Make sure that the wiring to the lights is actually 12awg, and that the switch is rated for 20A. For some reason people just think "oh it is lighting I'll use 14awg" ignoring that a short can absolutely occur in a lighting fixture and that the 20A breaker could let 40A of current go down that 14awg for a solid minute. what’s the remedy here? i don’t want to rerun it, so swap the breaker for a 15?
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Jan 3, 2024 23:15
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right arm posted:bought a generator. plumbing it for NG and wiring a 50amp inlet for it this weekend Hell yeah. Which generator did you go with?
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Jan 3, 2024 23:32
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Calidus posted:GM gives you the option of $1000 credit on having a 40 amp circuit installed by Qmerit. I have just seen horrible quotes online from Qmerit, because they know people have some sort credit from GM when they jack up the price. I have no issues paying my regular electrician to do stuff. Are you getting there freebie here? Just let GM pay, they'll often approve over $1000 for the install and kick a few hundred more in for permitting.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:44
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H110Hawk posted:Honestly every kid should get a "practical Chemistry and Physics" class. Adults too. Glad to report that the series of pull chains connected by baling twine has been replaced by a light switch in my basement, also changed all the fixtures over to LED and replaced some broken outlets while I had everything apart.
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Jan 3, 2024 23:49
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Faustian Bargain posted:i wanted to come back to this. i’ll verify but im like 95% sure it’s 14. Yes, either replace ever last bit of lower gauge wire (outside of wire integrated into a fixture) or drop a 15A breaker in there. Ideally a 15A AFCI/GFCI combination breaker since odds are that someone who will slap 14awg onto the lighting portion of a 20A circuit isn't going to be the most diligent about making good connections.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:08
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H110Hawk posted:
I'm glad they finally learned their lesson about wireless (about 6months after I had my system put in *facepalm*). I'm not sure why your utility would be able to kill your entire system - the most they should be able to do is force the system controller to disconnect from the grid (which would mean you're running on PV + batteries). Then again you're in CA, so who knows what crazy codes they have. Probably goes without saying, but make sure you get wired ethernet for the envoy, their cell service based thing sucks (and only gives you 1hr update intervals instead of 15 minutes), and we all know what wifi is. I'd probably put in some sort of surge protector before the system controller, but not sure how easy that will be with the plans they submitted.
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Jan 4, 2024 00:45
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Shifty Pony posted:Yes, either replace ever last bit of lower gauge wire (outside of wire integrated into a fixture) or drop a 15A breaker in there. i think ill replace the breaker but not with gfci because the fridge is on this circuit.
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Jan 4, 2024 01:20
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H110Hawk posted:Don't gently caress around with microwave transformers GFI or not. Microwave transformers are amazing devices useful for all kinds of mad science electrical fuckery. They are also deceptively lethal, so it's best to treat them like a rattlesnake, respectfully, and from a distance. If you don't know what lock out, tag out is, never ever gently caress with one.
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Jan 4, 2024 03:05
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SpartanIvy posted:Hell yeah. Which generator did you go with? noisiest one possible lol the duromax xp13000hxt wanted to see if I could swing a closed frame inverter, but I’ve already got a shed in my backyard I’ve been wanting to run power to and I couldn’t stomach dropping like 4x the price for less capacity. gotta be able to run my AC here in the south. maybe in a few years when their prices come down 
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Jan 4, 2024 12:49
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H110Hawk posted:
the comms to the microinverters are powerline communication, not wireless but not a dedicated wire either. because they're AC lines...this sometimes presents issues when there's electrical noise. the iq8's have been better and more responsive but if you have a "noisy" grid, sometimes they just straight up will not produce or communicate, especially at distance (ran into this most often with ground mount installations). for PV only installs under 64A continuous? just slap a "line filter" into the system for a few hundred in material and a couple hours install. for whole home backup like this, definitely over 64A? oh man. the next size up in line filter is a commercial 3-phase one, you need a cabinet to fit it and the listed price for the thing is over 2k. probably won't happen in 99% of cases though, rooftop installs in relatively standard conditions rarely pop something like this. never saw any configurations for the shutdown, just many, many warnings about installing the rapid shutdown switch correctly increasing as the months went on. it went from emails to tooltips in the installer app to physical pieces of paper taped onto the equipment to pre-wiring the shutdown switch with 4 different color wires. still had one with the pre-wire break at commissioning and enphase tried to blame us devicenull posted:the envoy this is no longer the name for this piece of equipment. before, everything started with en-. envoy, encharge, enpower....but then they decided to go with more descriptive names that have 'iq' slapped on them. so it's 'iq system controller', 'iq communications gateway' 'iq battery (model number)'. bonus: tesla calls their system controller the 'gateway'. really confusing model conventions. 'powerwall' and a number is the battery model, powerwall+ is the one with an inverter on top for PV. the 'backup gateway' is the equivalent to the system controller, so somewhere to feed in and feed out but ALSO! there's a backup switch which is just a meter interrupt, allowing you to literally install 2 pieces of equipment and have battery backup...with like 50 conditionals. yes, the powerwall and powerwall+ ship in literally the same size and color box. you can guess how i know Extant Artiodactyl fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 17:14
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devicenull posted:I'm not sure why your utility would be able to kill your entire system - the most they should be able to do is force the system controller to disconnect from the grid (which would mean you're running on PV + batteries). Then again you're in CA, so who knows what crazy codes they have. Yeah I think I was getting two things conflated in my head re: grid isolation vs PV/Battery shutdown. I don't believe they can remote shutdown my house, just the export. I don't know why they don't do it at the meter though, in theory it has a method to open the circuit if they can remotely turn off my power for non-payment. This might explain why my contractor ran ethernet to my solar install location without my approval. For all I give a poo poo this thing can not be connected to the internet so long as my HVAC stays on. I literally noticed it yesterday afternoon. I guess if Edison decides (or is required) to pay me a reasonable rate for my stored power I might use it to allow some excess feed-in from my storage.Extant Artiodactyl posted:the comms to the microinverters are powerline communication, not wireless but not a dedicated wire either. because they're AC lines...this sometimes presents issues when there's electrical noise. the iq8's have been better and more responsive but if you have a "noisy" grid, sometimes they just straight up will not produce or communicate, especially at distance (ran into this most often with ground mount installations). for PV only installs under 64A continuous? just slap a "line filter" into the system for a few hundred in material and a couple hours install. for whole home backup like this, definitely over 64A? oh man. the next size up in line filter is a commercial 3-phase one, you need a cabinet to fit it and the listed price for the thing is over 2k. probably won't happen in 99% of cases though, rooftop installs in relatively standard conditions rarely pop something like this.  kids. The batteries have short-term peak output of 7.68kVA (3s) * 4 batteries. Plus the entire PV input. I haven't heard of anyone around here having trouble with line conditioning on their power. I haven't hooked up a scope or anything to my lines, but at least now all my connections are fresh. (Vs my old rusted out Zinsco.) Looking at the sheets I'm at the max input on my controller box (80A) which is fun. Guess I shouldn't roast two turkeys while the pool pump /hvac/washer spin cycle/dryer/humidifier is at max and the grid is down.  Extant Artiodactyl posted:never saw any configurations for the shutdown, just many, many warnings about installing the rapid shutdown switch correctly increasing as the months went on. it went from emails to tooltips in the installer app to physical pieces of paper taped onto the equipment to pre-wiring the shutdown switch with 4 different color wires. still had one with the pre-wire break at commissioning and enphase tried to blame us I will double check it once the stuff starts landing on my wall, thank you. Of all the things I'm willing to "hot wire" to make work the 12.9kw DC side (but microinverted) with 20kwh of storage magic box is not even low on the list - it isn't on the list. At least until I own appropriate gloves and arc-flash hood. Were/are you an Enphase installer? Or how did you get this much knowledge of the systems? H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Jan 4, 2024 19:19
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H110Hawk posted:
the internet connection is mainly for everyone's favorite thing, software updates. enphase support referred to one as "the big nasty" which caused a lot of nuisance calls. you're also required to have a cell kit so enphase can do support when it's off-grid. there's a lot of codes and commands that are just not accessible to the installer for troubleshooting. i can't remember if it's enphase or generac that reduces the warranty if you go without internet. H110Hawk posted:
i installed enphase, generac, and tesla systems for a couple companies, stupidly i was the only one willing to learn the systems at one of the companies so i was there from planning, install and the many, many servicing calls (especially on ones i didn't plan or install myself). i'm between electrical paths in my career right now so maybe i'll end up installing these regularly again. i mainly want to take the learned skills of troubleshooting and configuration and see that through to industrial controls instead of standing in front of a misbehaving battery waiting for phone support to reset it
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Jan 4, 2024 22:38
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H110Hawk posted:Yeah I think I was getting two things conflated in my head re: grid isolation vs PV/Battery shutdown. I don't believe they can remote shutdown my house, just the export. I don't know why they don't do it at the meter though, in theory it has a method to open the circuit if they can remotely turn off my power for non-payment. Do they have the ability to do remote shutoffs? I was looking at meter manuals awhile ago and it seemed they'd need a meter base with that ability. I don't think meters are built to break 200A of load. quote:This might explain why my contractor ran ethernet to my solar install location without my approval. For all I give a poo poo this thing can not be connected to the internet so long as my HVAC stays on. I literally noticed it yesterday afternoon. They did you a favor! My contractors were happy I pre-ran it for them, because I didn't want them loving around with my computer poo poo. There is some sort of web UI you can access sort of directly, but I don't think it gives you anything more then the app. I keep debating paying for their "premium" monitoring thing, which gives you more data, but I don't really have a use for it.
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Jan 5, 2024 02:54
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devicenull posted:Do they have the ability to do remote shutoffs? I was looking at meter manuals awhile ago and it seemed they'd need a meter base with that ability. I don't think meters are built to break 200A of load. They definitely can do remote shutdown. They literally power cycled my house trying to get my meter working again one day and no one was in my back yard. Harumph. And yes they are doing all the rest of my low voltage and I'm sure I will find it all fascinating but I don't want enphase doing remote software updates without explicitly warning me each time and with a change log. I work on enough computers to know that's not conducive to my power staying on. Lower stakes but remember when some high end smoker company bricked everyone's smokers on like July 4th?
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Jan 5, 2024 03:21
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H110Hawk posted:They definitely can do remote shutdown. They literally power cycled my house trying to get my meter working again one day and no one was in my back yard. Ah, here in NJ PSEG uses these: https://www.landisgyr.com/product/focus-axe-axre-rxre-platform/ Which need a supported meterbase in order to do shutoffs (lol who would agree to that)
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Jan 5, 2024 03:34
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