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That sounds like the sunk cost fallacy. Its how jump gets ya
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Jan 5, 2024 08:16
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SyntheticPolygon posted:That sounds like the sunk cost fallacy. The thing that makes me think it's not actually sunk cost fallacy is that I don't just want to see it through to the end because I've read a lot of it. I've definitely dropped manga that I wasn't enjoying in the past despite having invested significant time into reading it. I want to see JJK through to the end even though I recognize that (in my opinion at least) it's only going to get worse, not better, because I actually want to see how it ends. Despite thinking the story is very bad, I am interested in where the story is going to go from here.
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Jan 5, 2024 08:46
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I want to see Sukuna rage, legit rage at Yuji. It is coming, and I'm going to laugh.
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Jan 5, 2024 09:01
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I know it a classic tradition of the genre but we need to end the culture of hate-reading battle shonen Hate reading is fine, you're just enjoying it on a different way. Now stuff like MHA that became so loving boring/bland it doesn't even deserve a hate read is the real shame.
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Jan 5, 2024 10:03
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https://vxtwitter.com/caratyuji/status/1742602057171837157 nobara can pierce limitless!
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Jan 5, 2024 13:50
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:https://vxtwitter.com/caratyuji/status/1742602057171837157 nobara can pierce limitless! Makes sense since she's cosplaying Nami Actually if Nobara got her hands on something of Gojo's could she pierce through limitless with resonance?
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Jan 5, 2024 15:22
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Electric Phantasm posted:Makes sense since she's cosplaying Nami
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Jan 5, 2024 15:24
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It would be genuinely hilarious if after everyone else being like "loving GOJO! UNSTOPPABLE" and Sukuna having to pierce space time to beat him, Nobara could have taken him down with her basic rear end move.
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Jan 5, 2024 16:54
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Electric Phantasm posted:Makes sense since she's cosplaying Nami Yeah, but I think it would have to be an actual piece of his body to work best. Still, the dude must cut his hair/shave/clip his fingernails.
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Jan 5, 2024 17:03
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Nobara’s ability is totally broken, if she hadn’t been written out of the story this arc would have ended after a dozen chapters.
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Jan 5, 2024 18:43
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Nobara’s ability is totally broken, if she hadn’t been written out of the story this arc would have ended after a dozen chapters. It's the curse of Voodoo characters.
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Jan 5, 2024 19:40
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King of Solomon posted:The thing that makes me think it's not actually sunk cost fallacy is that I don't just want to see it through to the end because I've read a lot of it. I've definitely dropped manga that I wasn't enjoying in the past despite having invested significant time into reading it. I want to see JJK through to the end even though I recognize that (in my opinion at least) it's only going to get worse, not better, because I actually want to see how it ends. Despite thinking the story is very bad, I am interested in where the story is going to go from here. I continue to read because it's still fun for me, but mostly I think it's academically interesting. I've never seen an extremely popular serialized narrative work be destroyed mid-stream, seemingly intentionally, by its author. JJK is highly experimental in this way. Like, after Shibuya, Yuji just wasn't the main character anymore. And there was no main character! We still don't even know what this motherfucker does. It's nuts. Rampant killing of often beloved characters for no narrative payback. Offscreening several of the most climactic scenes. None of this would be super noteworthy but the fact that it's coming from a stunningly popular franchise makes it a genuinely interesting case study.
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Jan 5, 2024 19:42
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Nobara’s ability is totally broken, if she hadn’t been written out of the story this arc would have ended after a dozen chapters. Gege has no issue writing stuff specifically to counter a character's broken ability, even in the most uninteresting ways. He would have found a way, but it seems he just couldn't be bothered (or is setting us up for a big comeback).
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Jan 5, 2024 20:45
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Taima posted:I continue to read because it's still fun for me, but mostly I think it's academically interesting. I've never seen an extremely popular serialized narrative work be destroyed mid-stream, seemingly intentionally, by its author. You haven't read much battle shonen have you? Like every long running popular battle shonen aside from like One Piece has had the accusations of "Past the halfway point it's almost like the writer/editors are trying to make this thing suck rear end!". Don't think those accusations are always correct (I mean some say it about Dragonball and that's the GOAT) but how is this novel or new to anyone?
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Jan 5, 2024 21:27
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I mean most other long running shonen don't kill half their cast and suddenly drop their protagonist out of focus, is I think the idea. Tho funnily Naruto's "this sucks now" point for many was choosing to undo killing everyone Shibuya-style. Nearest equivalent I can think of readily is maybe HxH? Chainsaw Man has superficial similarities but isn't really comparable at all.
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Jan 5, 2024 21:41
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Wasn't one of the theories of Sukuna something involving a twin he killed in the womb or something, or did I hallucinate an entire thing? Something about why he has four arms and multiple eyes and poo poo. If that were true, I could see Nobara get no-sold when she damages the wrong part of Sukuna. Moot point now, but Gege look you could have kept her in and STILL rendered her irrelevant! Hire me.
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Jan 5, 2024 21:41
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SyntheticPolygon posted:You haven't read much battle shonen have you? I think a major thing with JJK that is throwing people off is basically the cast reset. There have been extended periods of time in other shonen where the main characters are split up and you get a character spending more time onscreen than others, but it's usually with the understanding that they will come back. Even in, say, Attack on Titan, which was famous for its deaths, it was actually pretty conservative when it came to the major characters until near the ending. You lost a couple but Erin/Armin/Mikasa were there to the end, as were a vast majority of the supporting cast members. It's difficult to think of another thing like JJK where it basically wipes out almost the entire cast and keeps going. Like I guess you've got something like Tokyo Ghoul but even that was more of a temporary status quo shift before it reintroduced the majority of them.
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Jan 5, 2024 21:43
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The JJK main characters were always Yuji/Megumi/Gojo/Sukuna.
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Jan 5, 2024 21:47
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Does Sukuna have a crush on Yuji? He can’t seem to stop himself from vocally insisting that he doesn’t like him/finds him boring
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Jan 5, 2024 21:49
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Conspiratiorist posted:The JJK main characters were always Yuji/Megumi/Gojo/Sukuna. I think you have to be willfully dense to claim Nobara wasn't a main character. She was presented like a main character, around constantly, had her own power ups and arcs, and even post-death you have Yuji getting upset at the idea of someone 'replacing' her in the team. Mumbling posted:Does Sukuna have a crush on Yuji? He can’t seem to stop himself from vocally insisting that he doesn’t like him/finds him boring He has a crush in that he wants to crush him, yes.
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Jan 5, 2024 21:51
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ImpAtom posted:I think you have to be willfully dense to claim Nobara wasn't a main character. She was presented like a main character, around constantly, had her own power ups and arcs, and even post-death you have Yuji getting upset at the idea of someone 'replacing' her in the team. but on the other hand, consider how much we learned from all of those conversations between yuji and sukuna Taima posted:JJK is highly experimental in this way. Like, after Shibuya, Yuji just wasn't the main character anymore. And there was no main character! We still don't even know what this motherfucker does. It's nuts. Rampant killing of often beloved characters for no narrative payback. Offscreening several of the most climactic scenes. i know they blew up the cast but yuji is pretty obviously the main character even if he got sidelined for gojo/takaba yuji is the only character who i am completely sure is not going to die in the remainder of this fracas (excluding jujutsu revival bs and this battle taking the remaining 40 chapters) stuker fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 21:56
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ImpAtom posted:I think you have to be willfully dense to claim Nobara wasn't a main character. She was presented like a main character, around constantly, had her own power ups and arcs, and even post-death you have Yuji getting upset at the idea of someone 'replacing' her in the team. Is Maki a main character?
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Jan 5, 2024 21:56
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Conspiratiorist posted:The JJK main characters were always Yuji/Megumi/Gojo/Sukuna. I'm so glad to continue to learn about my favorite main character, megumi, who contributes so much to this manga and is definitely still alive(??)
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Jan 5, 2024 21:58
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Conspiratiorist posted:Is Maki a main character? I think you'd be hard pressed to say she isn't in Part 2. (And 100% absolutely if you are talking about JJK0)
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Jan 5, 2024 21:58
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ImpAtom posted:I think a major thing with JJK that is throwing people off is basically the cast reset. There have been extended periods of time in other shonen where the main characters are split up and you get a character spending more time onscreen than others, but it's usually with the understanding that they will come back. Even in, say, Attack on Titan, which was famous for its deaths, it was actually pretty conservative when it came to the major characters until near the ending. You lost a couple but Erin/Armin/Mikasa were there to the end, as were a vast majority of the supporting cast members. Ever heard of this comic called Bleach? I guess it doesn't exactly wipe out the old cast literally but we know in practice it actually wiped out the whole cast. Get big Bleach vibes from JJK in general tbh, mostly in good ways I guess. E: This sounds more hostile than I wanted it too. I just mean I don't think JJK's problems (or strengths) feels super unique to me. Though i've got the advantage of only having caught up recently so I haven't been in the week to week grind.
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Jan 5, 2024 22:02
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Maki went through hell, lost her sister, had a personal epiphany, scoured out her entire clan of assholes, had more personal epiphanies, developed the full strength of one of the most terrifying antagonists the jujutsu society had seen in decades, and she hasn't had a line in like 30 chapters. So she's made out better than most, really.
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Jan 5, 2024 22:02
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ImpAtom posted:I think you'd be hard pressed to say she isn't in Part 2. I bundle Nobara, Nanami, Maki, Choso, Youta, Takaba, Higuruma into "supporting cast" so it's a matter of looser standards in this case ig
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Jan 5, 2024 22:02
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Culling Game was split into like 4 sections and Maki was the main protag for one of those sections. I don't know how you can say she's not a main character for that arc at least?
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Jan 5, 2024 22:05
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Conspiratiorist posted:I bundle Nobara, Nanami, Maki, Choso, Youta, Takaba, Higuruma into "supporting cast" so it's a matter of looser standards in this case ig I mean in this particular case it isn't really about standards. Like even in terms of marketing, Nobara is front and center on loving everything. When they made Fortnite skins it was Yuji, Megumi, Gojo and Nobara. When they announced the game the first characters they announced were Yuji/Megumi/Gojo/Nobara/Sukuna. Anything about the pre-Part 2 manga or anime features her as prominently as any of the other major characters you mentioned. As far as Maki goes she's present more than anyone else who isn't that group, even more than Yuta, and is often present even when the rest of the JJK0 cast isn't. If she wasn't a 'main character' before part 2, she certainly is afterwards where she's gotten long periods of time dedicated just to her, is currently one of the strongest people left alive, destroyed several major antagonists and frankly has had more main character mojo than Yuji has.
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Jan 5, 2024 22:11
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stuker posted:i know they blew up the cast but yuji is pretty obviously the main character even if he got sidelined for gojo/takaba Some people are weirdly sensitive to "taking focus away from the protagonist" of stories they read. I don't personally understand it, but I frequently see people freaking out any time stories take focus away from a protagonist for more than one chapter (whether it's a manga or a written story).
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Jan 5, 2024 22:35
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Ytlaya posted:Some people are weirdly sensitive to "taking focus away from the protagonist" of stories they read. I don't personally understand it, but I frequently see people freaking out any time stories take focus away from a protagonist for more than one chapter (whether it's a manga or a written story). Parasocial relationships be like that.
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Jan 5, 2024 22:43
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Conspiratiorist posted:Parasocial relationships be like that. I actually hadn't thought of that angle. My best guess was that it's related to people enjoying the "progression" elements of stories, and time away from a protagonist is usually "time the protagonist isn't 'leveling up'/getting stronger." edit: I also want to be clear that I understand people preferring the protagonist to other characters sometimes, but reactions to this stuff are often weirdly angry/bitter/intense. You'll often see tons of people like "Oh so I guess ______ isn't the protagonist any more...." or threatening to drop the series in question.
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Jan 5, 2024 22:45
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ImpAtom posted:I mean in this particular case it isn't really about standards. Marketability does not make someone a main character. e: that's more dismissive than I really mean it to be. But I do think marketing is a poor thing to point to. Gege doesn't have poo poo to do with that. Jump, Mappa, and the production committee itself I suppose successfully identified Nobara as marketable but that doesn't mean Gege thought of her as or wrote her to be a main character. While she certainly contributes as a character, she simply doesn't have the ties that Yuji and Megumi have to the goings-on in the JJK world to the point where I'd probably rank Maki higher than her in terms of overall story importance whether that's pre- or post-Shibuya. Her biggest claim to main character status is proximity to Yuji and I can't really buy that. Oh Snapple! fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 22:48
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Oh Snapple! posted:Marketability does not make someone a main character. At this point I'm kind of struggling for what doesn't qualify Nobara as a main character except that she's a girl. She's part of a 3-man team with the other two protagonists, around near-constantly, interacts tons with most of the cast, gets her own fights, is present on all the marketing... like what the gently caress more does someone have to do to be considered a main character?
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Jan 5, 2024 22:56
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SyntheticPolygon posted:E: This sounds more hostile than I wanted it too. I just mean I don't think JJK's problems (or strengths) feels super unique to me. Though i've got the advantage of only having caught up recently so I haven't been in the week to week grind. I think JJK's first season definitely had unique strengths and it got people to hope for a show that it didn't end up being. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 22:58
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I watched it recently and it was really competent and all but I dunno, nothing stood out to me like "drat man! Nobody's doin it like this!" It's good, got some excellent gags, and some really solid fights. There's certainly some unique stuff to it, particularly around the fighting mechanics but it doesn't seem too unsimilar to what you'd expect from a battle shonen. But maybe i've just read too many of them
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Jan 5, 2024 23:07
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I watched it recently and it was really competent and all but I dunno, nothing stood out to me like "drat man! Nobody's doin it like this!" For what it's worth, I agree with you there. Truth be told I'm not sure I would have stuck with JJK if I was reading it from the start weekly or if I hadn't started with JJK0 (since that is how the app does it) because while JJK0 isn't super unique, it was distinctive enough to stand out to me more since its cast was weirder. I think it starts getting better as it goes on, but a big part of why I enjoyed it wasn't it being super duper unique but because I thought the cast had a strong and likable dynamic. (Which kind of goes back to the Nobara thing, she balanced out Yuji and Megumi in terms of chemistry and dynamic.) But I did like JJK's power system of having weird distinct powers and everyone being focused on min-maxing their specific powers to the point domains were basically considered 1-shot wins. It isn't super unique but everyone being about the minmaxing to ridiculous degrees made it more fun to read to me because it became a game of who bullshits better. I kind of lost interest in the fights the less hard rules the fights had because 'bullshit better' isn't as fun when someone isn't working around stuff. (This is also why I don't like Pachinkoslot thing because it is wacky as poo poo with no real counterplay, while I love the comedy guy thing because it is absurdly powerful but with a distinct weakness that just requires a certain person to pull off.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 23:09
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I definitely didn't stick with JJK after the first few chapters and even when I started reading it recently (caught up partway through Gojo vs Sukuna) it was probably only at the School Exchange arc that it started consistently hitting for me and that might just be because Todo is very funny. I think the whole comic was mostly good catching up with it though. And yeah, Domain Expansion is what I was thinking about with unique battle mechanics. I'm not super into it tbh, aside from the super weird culling game ones, but I think its pretty fresh.
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Jan 5, 2024 23:39
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I watched it recently and it was really competent and all but I dunno, nothing stood out to me like "drat man! Nobody's doin it like this!" I thought the connection of the curses with local events and feelings, the (family) houses, the 'political' system of the sorcerers as a hidden society underlying the 'real' society, and the power system that followed very rigid rules up until a certain point was very interesting. That stuff was then just ignored to be a standard battle shonen though. I mean, I guess none of this stuff is unique (which is nearly impossible at this point) but I thought JJK did it in an interesting way that I wanted it developed further.
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Jan 5, 2024 23:42
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ImpAtom posted:At this point I'm kind of struggling for what doesn't qualify Nobara as a main character except that she's a girl. The true measure of a character's relevance in JJK is how much one-on-one they get with Gojo hth
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Jan 5, 2024 23:43
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