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Ms Adequate posted:Barely utter Trump's name because he's so disgusted, or because his ancient syphilitic brain is paralyzed and misfiring once again? wanna see him on camera having to hesitate to say trump's name out of some kind of visceral emotional reaction each time
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Jan 25, 2024 14:13
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Ms Adequate posted:Barely utter Trump's name because he's so disgusted, or because his ancient syphilitic brain is paralyzed and misfiring once again? probably a mix of both. obviously Chuds are chuds. but i am curious if there will be some other deal for ukraine aid since the senate republicans are mostly ok with it. i mean trump will kill it but still curious.
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Jan 25, 2024 14:16
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Dapper_Swindler posted:probably a mix of both. obviously Chuds are chuds. but i am curious if there will be some other deal for ukraine aid since the senate republicans are mostly ok with it. i mean trump will kill it but still curious.
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Jan 25, 2024 14:22
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WE WANT BORDER SECURITY Here is a bill that gives money to border security. NO THAT WOULD MAKE IT LOOK LIKE DEMS ARE DOING SOMETHING. HOW DARE YOU NOT CARE ABOUT THE BORDER. I hate politics
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Jan 25, 2024 14:27
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It’s the Grand Bargain thing all over again In that case the GOP saved Obama from himself
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Jan 25, 2024 14:36
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Nash posted:WE WANT BORDER SECURITY That's been the Republican play book for decades now. Say government doesn't work, then get elected so you can break poo poo and gently caress everything up to prove it doesn't work.
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Jan 25, 2024 14:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:The deal that had been under discussion to trade border/immigration concessions for more funding for Ukraine/Israel funding is apparently dead. This appears to have come from McConnell who believes that this deal would now hurt Trump’s chances in the general. This is almost certainly McConnell covering his own rear end. He's not dropping it because he's worried about hurting Trump, he's dropping it because he's worried the bill won't get enough GOP support, due to Trump openly blasting the bill and encouraging Congressional Republicans to buck their leadership and oppose it. He's framing it this way so it doesn't sound as much like a failure.
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Jan 25, 2024 15:04
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Main Paineframe posted:This is almost certainly McConnell covering his own rear end. He's not dropping it because he's worried about hurting Trump, he's dropping it because he's worried the bill won't get enough GOP support, due to Trump openly blasting the bill and encouraging Congressional Republicans to buck their leadership and oppose it. He's framing it this way so it doesn't sound as much like a failure. Fully agree, I think its clear by now that McConnell despises Trump and wanted Ukraine aid passed months ago. But he's scared of Trump not necessarily for his own seat (though maybe?) but because he will be the nominee and he could inflict massive damage on down-ballot Republicans if he wanted to. And he also knows that Ukraine aid is dead right now in the house anyway. So, he's making the best of a bad situation, appeasing the big orange baby until his inevitable defeat to try to protect his caucus. If Ukraine is still alive after November, I wouldn't be surprised if they passed a lame duck aid bill right after the election. The rest of NATO is going to have to chip in right now until we can get our own poo poo in order.
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Jan 25, 2024 15:22
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The border is pretty much boned until we fix the legal immigration process or people stop wanting to come to America. You can try to militarize the border and that might make it more orderly, but it is just going to result in the pre-2016 status quo of people sneaking across en masse instead of turning themselves in at the border - which is worse both in terms of the journey for the people and also likely to result in more illegal immigrants untracked and unsupported in the U.S. for the people who want to keep them out. Although, I guess it would be a success of stopping videos of huge amounts of people turning themselves in at border crossings if that was your goal. The main problems with the border right now are: - The ways to legally get into the U.S. for the sole purpose of making money/improving your quality of life are almost all totally shut out and the few that remain either require an employer sponsor or take 7+ years. - Claiming asylum will stop you from getting kicked out of the U.S. temporarily, but "my quality of life would be much higher" doesn't qualify for asylum. - This results in basically everyone claiming asylum because it is the only way to not get turned around right away. - The asylum process was always slow, but it was also only meant to process groups that are 1/10th the size of them coming across right now. - Trying to crack down on all the people claiming asylum "just" because it would significantly improve their life or economic situation leads to people with real asylum claims getting massively screwed. - The asylum process has become the weird de facto official immigration process and it basically encourages people to mass the border and lie, which requires huge amounts of effort to handle and verify. There are several options you can do: - Fix the normal immigration process and guest worker/economic green card/H1-B Visa processes. They are currently capped at 85k per year, which is less than 10% of the total demand each year. That will allow more people into the country and take the huge weight off of the asylum process to better handle actual asylum cases. - Make it basically impossible and horribly punishing to attempt to cross the border illegally or to try and claim asylum unless you have 100% proof and hope that doing this for a period of years will crush demand by making sure you have successful enforcement as high as possible so people think it isn't worth it. - Massively expand the asylum system to meet capacity and basically just use a really broken and unwieldy system that was not intended for it as the "unofficial official" immigration process. Several of those things are basically impossible and nobody wants to do all three of them at the same time, so  . Instead, we just kind of hobble along with an outdated system and every attempt to update it since 1987 (37 years ago!!!) has failed.Many Republicans just object to the idea of letting more of the "wrong" people into the country, so expanding the legal processes is a non-starter and can't even be negotiated. Most Democrats want to be compassionate and help people in the immediate-term, so the focus has been entirely on asylum-seekers and how to basically use the asylum process for an unintended purpose. That sort of makes sense in the short-term, but it also hobbles the legal process in the long-term and results in both sides basically just attempting to inefficiently use the asylum process to weaponize their preferred political outcomes at the expense of legal and undocumented immigrants and actual asylum seekers who all get stuck in one inefficient process together because people kind of gave up on comprehensive immigration reform. It also teaches people who want to come to America that they need to use the asylum process and lie instead of going the legal route because the legal process is a complete waste of time unless you have 7-12 years, some money, and a lot patience to gamble that it works out for you. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 15:22
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Rigel posted:Fully agree, I think its clear by now that McConnell despises Trump and wanted Ukraine aid passed months ago. But he's scared of Trump not necessarily for his own seat (though maybe?) but because he will be the nominee and he could inflict massive damage on down-ballot Republicans if he wanted to. And he also knows that Ukraine aid is dead right now in the house anyway. I don't think it's even necessarily about election performance at all. It's the fact that the party is increasingly becoming a personality cult around Trump himself, and if the big orange baby says something, some of the GOP members of Congress will listen to Trump over their actual leaders. He's already having an increasingly hard time keeping the Senate GOP in line, and there's no guarantee they'll all listen to him over Trump if it comes down to it. Just look at the absolute chaos the House has been in. While the Senate is generally less susceptible to that stuff, it's no use if the House won't pass what the Senate sends them. And even McConnell has had to deal with senators openly defying him and doing some lunatic bullshit lately, like Tuberville.
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Jan 25, 2024 15:50
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That sort of makes sense in the short-term, but it also hobbles the legal process in the long-term and results in both sides basically just attempting to inefficiently use the asylum process to weaponize their preferred political outcomes at the expense of legal and undocumented immigrants and actual asylum seekers who all get stuck in one inefficient process together because people kind of gave up on comprehensive immigration reform I think it is worth stressing that conservatives have a strong electoral need for a broken immigration system. They have to keep it broken, they can't lose the appeal of border crisis as a wedge issue to draw in votes.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:16
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Ohio is going to follow the same path as Kansas did in 2010 through 2018, but they are pretty sure they will get it right this time. They plan to: - Eliminate the income tax and the CAT tax (a tax on gross income earned by businesses in Ohio), which would cause a $13 billion deficit. - Make up that $13 billion by raising the sales tax, cutting spending (unspecified), and "letting the economy fix itself." According to estimates, they would need to roughly double the sales tax to make up the shortfall. That would remove an effective income tax rate of 1.41% for the average Ohioan and add an additional 5.75% to the sales tax (for a total of 11.25%). It would remove an effective 3.5% income tax rate for the wealthiest Ohioans and add an undetermined effective increase under the sales tax. https://twitter.com/OhioCapJournal/status/1750133852394385486 quote:Ohio Republicans propose ending income tax, critics worry about economic crisis
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Jan 25, 2024 16:18
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They also don’t want more legal immigration
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Jan 25, 2024 16:18
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Kavros posted:I think it is worth stressing that conservatives have a strong electoral need for a broken immigration system. They have to keep it broken, they can't lose the appeal of border crisis as a wedge issue to draw in votes. We said that about abortion and while it's largely true they still let that dog catch that car
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Jan 25, 2024 16:19
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Main Paineframe posted:I don't think it's even necessarily about election performance at all. It's the fact that the party is increasingly becoming a personality cult around Trump himself, and if the big orange baby says something, some of the GOP members of Congress will listen to Trump over their actual leaders. He's already having an increasingly hard time keeping the Senate GOP in line, and there's no guarantee they'll all listen to him over Trump if it comes down to it. I think McConnell also sees the Trump has broken GOP's hold on the suburbs and they are increasing relying on gimmicks to hold their grip to power. Trump ripped the mask off completely and the demos they relied on didn't like it.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:29
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:immigration words This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? If I was looking for a higher quality of life, I would pick a country that, you know, actually has a functioning health care system to start
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Jan 25, 2024 16:31
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? If I was looking for a higher quality of life, I would pick a country that, you know, actually has a functioning health care system to start I don't think you realize how broken a lot of countries in South and Central America are. The struggles that come with the standard of living a lot of people outside the US grapple with would be intolerable for 90% or more of people lucky enough to live in the US or Western Europe. You get into ugly life scenarios, but think of "can't get enough food due to environmental degradation" or "constantly in fear of gang/cartel violence" versus "having to go to an ER if I get sick."
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Jan 25, 2024 16:33
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? If I was looking for a higher quality of life, I would pick a country that, you know, actually has a functioning health care system to start A lot of people actually buy in to the right wing framing of things. Many immigrants are arriving here in Florida looking for free housing, Healthcare, etc and are absolutely shocked to learn that none of that is available to them
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Jan 25, 2024 16:34
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? If I was looking for a higher quality of life, I would pick a country that, you know, actually has a functioning health care system to start The median personal income in the U.S. is about 26x higher than the median personal income in Venezuela and you are statistically much less likely to be murdered by a cartel or gang in the U.S. than in Mexico or Colombia.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:35
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? If I was looking for a higher quality of life, I would pick a country that, you know, actually has a functioning health care system to start For the southern border a lot of these people they are escaping incredible violence with barely functional governments (or cartel states (that our interference cause)) and fear violence and reprisal. They have SOME sort of family in the United States and don't have to use a boat to cross an ocean, though B2 visas I think have the most overstays. Look there are a lot of issues in the United States but people come here because at least they feel they will be safer and have a chance at something new.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:35
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Eric Cantonese posted:I don't think you realize how broken a lot of countries in South and Central America are. The struggles that come with the standard of living a lot of people outside the US grapple with would be intolerable for 90% or more of people lucky enough to live in the US or Western Europe.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:36
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? If I was looking for a higher quality of life, I would pick a country that, you know, actually has a functioning health care system to start For all the "america a third world country!" talk that gets thrown around here, life in America is still far better than life in an actual third world country
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Jan 25, 2024 16:39
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DarkHorse posted:We said that about abortion and while it's largely true they still let that dog catch that car Exactly. The presence of the perennial need for the wedge issue does not suggest they aren't capable of loving it up for themselves. They are conservatives, after all.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:39
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? If I was looking for a higher quality of life, I would pick a country that, you know, actually has a functioning health care system to start It has consistently been the case that the things people (justifiably) complain bitterly about with regard to life in the US are often minuscule in proportion and impact compared to how bad life can be in many, many countries around the world. Understanding that perspective doesn't mean problems in the US aren't real or the US can't still have been responsible for making them in some way. I dunno what the mental blockage is. I still see middle-aged, politically aware people in the US express shock that they can't just pick up and move to France because how could the US not be the worst at legal immigration? Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 16:40
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There are people that emigrate to the US from places with better access to health care or other social services all the time. People come here for lots of reasons and from all over the place.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:40
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Eric Cantonese posted:I don't think you realize how broken a lot of countries in South and Central America are. The struggles that come with the standard of living a lot of people outside the US grapple with would be intolerable for 90% or more of people lucky enough to live in the US or Western Europe. I mean yeah, that's fair, but why do they settle here instead of Canada? Especially if they're trying to go through legal channels but have to do the asylum thing instead
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Jan 25, 2024 16:43
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bird food bathtub posted:That's been the Republican play book for decades now. Say government doesn't work, then get elected so you can break poo poo and gently caress everything up to prove it doesn't work. Oh absolutely. I get weird looks from kids in class when I tell them that many politicians don’t want the government to work so they can use it as campaign attack ads. Then they get angry when they do actual reading and research and find their beloved GOP doesn’t actually try to make things better. Some deny it and say all the stuff they read is fake because republicans don’t act like that.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:43
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I mean yeah, that's fair, but why do they settle here instead of Canada? Especially if they're trying to go through legal channels but have to do the asylum thing instead Canada gets to use the US as a massive geographical buffer. How would a lot of migrants even get there? Boats, I guess? (What a frightening trip that would have to be.)
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Jan 25, 2024 16:45
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https://twitter.com/RegimeTwink/status/1750409637650677973 Getting lit in the Missouri statehouse. Show me these hands son
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Jan 25, 2024 16:46
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Star Man posted:There are people that emigrate to the US from places with better access to health care or other social services all the time. People come here for lots of reasons and from all over the place. The one thing Americas generally does better than other places is compensation for high earners It's a bit mercenary as that higher compensation comes from gutting social services to every citizen that would normally be paid from higher taxes on those earners, but I can't exactly fault them for taking the option
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Jan 25, 2024 16:46
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Aztec Galactus posted:A lot of people actually buy in to the right wing framing of things. Many immigrants are arriving here in Florida looking for free housing, Healthcare, etc and are absolutely shocked to learn that none of that is available to them They technically do. The people claiming asylum, whether they are being detained directly, put up in hotels, or placed with a sponsor, all get housing. Even the people being detained can leave and be deported whenever they want, but they are there voluntarily to try and wait out the process. I really doubt most immigrants come to the U.S. with the dream of being a welfare queen. I don't have any official surveys that prove that, though. Even slaving in the kitchen somewhere for $13 an hour under the table is likely a massive improvement in their income from places like Venezuela where the median salary is $142 per month. The vast majority are coming for financial reasons, but that isn't a valid reason to claim asylum or get a green card on its own. So, they try to come in via the asylum process and hope that the backlog/inability to verify whether they really are going to be persecuted will let them stay. The next biggest chunk are actual legitimate asylum seekers who are looking to escape imminent bodily harm. If the median income in your country in $142 per month, then working 60 hour weeks for $13/hour allows you to make 21x the median income in your home country and live an okay-ish life* in the U.S. with enough money to send back home via remittances that helps your family live a solid life there. That is why most of the people coming are single men under 45. They are coming for work and economic opportunity to provide back home and possibly bring family with them. *(Relative to where you came from at least. Staying in a house with 8 other dudes and working 60 hours per week isn't exactly the dream scenario, but that is a small price to pay for the chance to make 21x the median salary in your home country and support your family.) Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jan 25, 2024 |
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Jan 25, 2024 16:46
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I mean yeah, that's fair, but why do they settle here instead of Canada? Especially if they're trying to go through legal channels but have to do the asylum thing instead For as byzantine and awful the American immigration system is, isn't it friendlier than like the EU or Canada's? Basically, the US policy of aslyum is that if you can touch ground in the US and claim asylum you're at least protected for a bit while the government hears your case. Plus, while we do deport people the process can takes years and sometimes the government says we won't bother unless you truly epically gently caress something up.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:47
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Tiny Timbs posted:It has consistently been the case that the things people (justifiably) complain bitterly about with regard to life in the US are often minuscule in proportion and impact compared to how bad life can be in many, many countries around the world. Understanding that perspective doesn't mean problems in the US aren't real or the US can't still have been responsible for making them in some way. It's the mirror version of American exceptionalism, where the US is uniquely evil and terrible. You see it occasionally from leftists (even on this forum), who try to force world events into the mold of "this is America's fault" even when it's mostly or entirely some foreign internal thing. I think it comes down to the fact that realizing that America isn't actually the best doesn't automatically free you from decades of propaganda.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:51
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I mean yeah, that's fair, but why do they settle here instead of Canada? Especially if they're trying to go through legal channels but have to do the asylum thing instead Ask me about trying to move to Canada as a cracker american if you think that would be easier
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Jan 25, 2024 16:53
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Mooseontheloose posted:For as byzantine and awful the American immigration system is, isn't it friendlier than like the EU or Canada's? That's my understanding. I believe Canada has a points system based on your education and Canada's perception of its economic needs. It's my understanding that the EU differs on a country-by-country basis. Some of the countries in the EU don't like migrants or refugees at all. I'm sure both the EU and Canada have some level of family relation/marriage avenues, but I think the US is the broadest. We also have birthright citizenship due to the 14th Amendment (for now?) and that complicates the dynamics a bit too. It's hard to imagine, but the US is definitely on the fuzzier side of immigration policy compared to some other countries. I wonder how much of that is due to geography and how big the US is, so you don't get a uniformity of rage. I listen to the anti-immigration rhetoric coming from places like Italy and Spain and it's not that different from, say, Texas.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:54
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Also, a lot of immigrants move to places where they already have connections. If they don't have connections of some sort in Canada it would be undesirable as a destination.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:56
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C-Span is about to get real spicy!
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Jan 25, 2024 16:56
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Eric Cantonese posted:Canada gets to use the US as a massive geographical buffer. How would a lot of migrants even get there? Boats, I guess? (What a frightening trip that would have to be.) But I think the US system is pretty uniquely broken in the way Leon Trotsky described and the same approach wouldn't fly in Canada.
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Jan 25, 2024 16:56
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mobby_6kl posted:Same way the get to the US? Caravan? The caravan would need to pass through the US, though, no? Or I guess they somehow get smuggled past our border and then through the Canadian border through trucks or something? Having huge walking groups just going north through the US to be able to get to Canada without getting intercepted doesn't seem doable.
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Jan 25, 2024 17:01
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:This is probably self-hating america brain talking, but why do so many people want to immigrate here? step one: personally enjoy not being dead or destitute (which increasingly just means "dead not too far out, more painfully'). perhaps want to sustain the non-deadness of your present condition step two: do some internal calculus. based on the best info you have available. about what migrant action you can put yourself on that gives you the most chance of not being dead step three: make the call, put in the trajectory and pray to your gods that it pans out for the americas US is in a sweet spot for that whole equation, period. it simply lets more people in one way or the other, there's ways. it is a luxury to be a person sitting outside of a crisis that compels refuge migration and wonder why the migrants in question aren't theorycrafting their way into more ideal conditions. a lot is at stake. people gotta give themselves the best dice roll and work with it
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Jan 25, 2024 17:02
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