|
koolkal posted:Well you have a point, Biden never brought us to the brink of conflict, he dove right into a conflict. *Trump at the very least expanded drone warfare into Somalia and oh yah, restricted reporting on drone strikes. *"Alleged civilian deaths in Iraq and Syria skyrocketed under Trump's four years in office to more than 13,000 *Trump had an on the ground NAVY Seals raid Yemen. *Let's not forget the raid in Niger that got swept under the rug in 2017 that we all collectively decided was not worth investigating. Mooseontheloose fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Feb 3, 2024 |
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:09 |
|
|
Mooseontheloose posted:Trump directly bombed Iran. And directly assassinated a Major General of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Feb 3, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:31
|
|
|
I wish Biden was as much of a warmonger as some people make him out to be and had nuked Russia already (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:35
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:I wish Biden was as much of a warmonger as some people make him out to be and had nuked Russia already I, too, wish to live in the Mad Max movies
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:36
|
|
|
It’s kind of impressive that “Donald the Dove” and “he’s gonna run left of X” remains alive as concepts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:37
|
|
|
Mooseontheloose posted:Trump directly bombed Iran. These same points have been brought up with this same poster a dozen times as they know Donald the dovr is a good troll but we are supposed to pretend they don't know all this every single time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:37
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:It’s kind of impressive that “Donald the Dove” remains alive as a concept. It's impressive that it even became a concept after his declaration that we should "kill ISIS members and their families" Now it's just insane that it still exists as a concept 8 years after that
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:38
|
|
|
The only things Trump has said concretely about how he'd handle the Israel/Gaza war differently was to ban refugees from Gaza and screen immigrants for anyone sympathizing with Hamas (or other "Muslim extremists"). This was from back in October so he might have had a change of heart since then but I haven't found anything so far https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-iowa-caucus-2024-election-c8f0ff23b1a39fb4e2b7aee9da15f0ed quote:CLIVE, Iowa (AP) — Doubling down on the hard-line immigration policies that have long animated his base, former President Donald Trump on Monday vowed to bar refugees from Gaza and immediately expand his first-term Muslim travel ban if he wins a second term following the deadly attack on Israel last week.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:43
|
|
|
Mooseontheloose posted:Trump directly bombed Iran. When did this happen?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
koolkal posted:When did this happen? Sorry he assassinated an Iranian general in Iraq, I thought it was in Iran. edit: And it almost started a hot war, Iran showed the greater restraint.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:48
|
|
|
Trump very deliberately is refusing to say anything he’d do in any conflict. He simply defaults to “it never would have happened if I was president”. It’s just magic thinking as foreign policy. It’s insane. But of course anyone who paid attention the last 8 years and was being honest can plainly see Trump would not be and has not been less aggressive in the Middle East, less supportive of Israel, or more protective of Palestinians.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:48
|
|
|
Also, for the numerous posters pointing out what Trump would do: that's largely irrelevant. People are starting to view Biden as a warmonger negatively and if there's one thing we know about Trump, it's that he has no problem claiming viewpoints that don't at all represent what he actually thinks or what he will do. So yes, he absolutely can and will claim he would not have escalated like Biden if we end up becoming ensnared into a larger conflict in the ME. Not to mention that you're not going to ever win over Republicans running as a Dem hawk/neocon anyway. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) koolkal fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 3, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:52
|
|
|
There is a genocide going on right now in Palestine and Joe Biden is such an active participant in it that he belongs right next to Netanyahu at The Hague.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:54
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Trump very deliberately is refusing to say anything he’d do in any conflict. He simply defaults to “it never would have happened if I was president”. It’s just magic thinking as foreign policy. It’s insane. That "A gallon of their blood for every drop of ours" reply to stories of Americans killed on 10/7 wasn't a policy statement, but it sure was a statement. And reminds me of lots of 2016 "Aww, it's just rhetoric, don't take it seriously" campaign promises he kept, like dropping more bombs than Obama and killing more civilians.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:57
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:Trump very deliberately is refusing to say anything he’d do in any conflict. He simply defaults to “it never would have happened if I was president”. It’s just magic thinking as foreign policy. It’s insane. The Middle East was Jared's problem to solve. If Trump were President, Jared would have solved it by now. Duh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 00:57
|
|
|
koolkal posted:Also, for the numerous posters pointing out what Trump would do: that's largely irrelevant. That just seems to make it more relevant to point out what Trump would actually do.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 01:04
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:And directly assassinated a Major General of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. That was an obvious invitation to a war. Everyone's very lucky that Iran didn't take that bait.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 01:08
|
|
|
koolkal posted:People are starting to view Biden as a warmonger negatively and if there's one thing we know about Trump, it's that he has no problem claiming viewpoints that don't at all represent what he actually thinks or what he will do. So yes, he absolutely can and will claim he would not have escalated like Biden if we end up becoming ensnared into a larger conflict in the ME. In 2016 that was true. Trump being all over the map on foreign policy for example was absolute catnip to critics of Obama and Hillary's foreign policy history who wanted to paint them as the warmongers of our times to the point of memory holing Bush over it. If you were so motivated, the "Obama's too soft, we need to kill more people" thing that anyone paying attention knew was his more genuine belief was easy to sweep under the rug because he'd never been in office and had no record of votes or actions to go on. Similarly, many who felt the ACA was underwhelming swooned for "I'll have a health care plan and it will be just beautiful!" because he was a blank slate. Or those annoyed by partisanship when he claimed to be a great dealmaker like one you've never seen. And lots of news outlets, even those that definitely weren't openly for Trump, went breathlessly with it. It's not 2016 though. Even if that sort of credulity was excusable then it's a harder sell now even if you're "Ken Bone, undecided voter" rock stupid. Trump making claims all over the place has a distinct pattern that we can compare with his actual pattern of actions and choice of allies and subordinates.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 01:17
|
|
|
One other thing we know about Trump's foreign policy is that he plans to invade Mexico if elected
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 01:38
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:That was an obvious invitation to a war. Everyone's very lucky that Iran didn't take that bait. I was the lead Battle Watch Captain for one of the Task Forces in CENTCOM during the one-year anniversary of Soleimani's assassination, and the pucker factor up and down the chain was very real.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 01:42
|
|
|
We're all very lucky that Iran's leaders are much more sensible and capable of much greater restraint than America's were back then.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 02:05
|
|
|
Ms Adequate posted:We're all very lucky that Iran's leaders are much more sensible and capable of much greater restraint than America's were back then. Hell, even Papa Roach was more sensible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 03:44
|
|
|
Weren't there a couple instances where very serious military leaders had to talk Trump down from just preemptively using nuclear weapons?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 06:18
|
|
|
borkencode posted:Weren't there a couple instances where very serious military leaders had to talk Trump down from just preemptively using nuclear weapons? It's great that we've got two modern Presidents who forced the military into creating ways to ignore orders if the C.I.C is drunk or tweeted them from the toilet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 08:34
|
|
|
Killer robot posted:That "A gallon of their blood for every drop of ours" reply to stories of Americans killed on 10/7 wasn't a policy statement, but it sure was a statement. And reminds me of lots of 2016 "Aww, it's just rhetoric, don't take it seriously" campaign promises he kept, like dropping more bombs than Obama and killing more civilians. He pretty much promised to genocide Gaza harder than Israel.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 08:56
|
|
|
Gyges posted:It's great that we've got two modern Presidents who forced the military into creating ways to ignore orders if the C.I.C is drunk or tweeted them from the toilet. Richard Nixon did nothing wr wait, you're talking about someone else, never mind
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 09:44
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:It’s kind of impressive that “Donald the Dove” and “he’s gonna run left of X” remains alive as concepts. H.L. Mencken posted:"No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 11:45
|
|
|
Killer robot posted:That "A gallon of their blood for every drop of ours" reply to stories of Americans killed on 10/7 wasn't a policy statement, but it sure was a statement. And reminds me of lots of 2016 "Aww, it's just rhetoric, don't take it seriously" campaign promises he kept, like dropping more bombs than Obama and killing more civilians. I don't know if we can tell if he kept that last 'promise', because the first thing he did was to order the forces to stop keeping count of civilian casualties.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 11:53
|
|
|
Bidenomics seems to be doing great https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1753419517168865488 CNBC posted:Nonfarm payrolls expanded by 353,000 for the month, better than the Dow Jones estimate for 185,000. The unemployment rate held at 3.7%, against the estimate for 3.8%. If this trend continues, and the Dems start getting louder about it, maybe the vibe will shift.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 16:51
|
|
|
Ither posted:Bidenomics seems to be doing great I think the perception's already been turning, thanks to us! 
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 17:07
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:It’s kind of impressive that “Donald the Dove” and “he’s gonna run left of X” remains alive as concepts. There is literally a state-sponsored disinformation campaign keeping those narratives alive my man.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 17:20
|
|
|
It would probably be easier to fight back against the "Donald the Dove" stuff if his opponent weren't actively supporting and enabling a genocide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 17:46
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:I think the perception's already been turning, thanks to us! Someone needs to tell Shaun to eat poo poo. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 18:03
|
|
|
B B posted:It would probably be easier to fight back against the "Donald the Dove" stuff if his opponent weren't actively supporting and enabling a genocide. Donald Trump has declared he’d join the genocide because he thought Israel was being soft. Which is a few dozen steps past what Biden has done.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 18:09
|
|
|
From what I see Americans are so politically ignorant, misinformed, and/or apathetic its starting to seem crazy that we talk about "preserving democracy". This democracy!?!?! These parties, these voters?!?!? I don't know if anybody heard Clyburn yesterday (on NPR I think), being questioned about bidens campaign. It was... relevant... funny... and very uncompelling, to me. I don't have a link so I'll have to paraphrase. "People are saying they're tired of voting AGAINST somebody, what can you say voters are voting FOR with Biden?" "Freedom and Democracy! Trumps going to take those away!" Lol On Gaza, he seemed dismissive of calls for a ceasefire. He said they were just a "loud distraction keeping people from seeing the quiet extra super good work Biden is doing to ensure a ceasefire". Said "obviously we all want a ceasefire, Biden really wants a ceasefire!" As if you get what you want by shutting up and being quiet and having faith that your leadership wants and is doing all the good things you agree with. While people are dying en mass. Anecdotally (and in all the many polling and survey debates here) I think Americans are so politically... incoherent... what could you say to sway them from whatever bizarre relationship they have with the news, and with the words Democrat and republican? So these statements seem bizarre to us sickos who try to stay informed, but I also don't think that they will land with anybody who didn't want to buy it in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 18:30
|
|
|
B B posted:It would probably be easier to fight back against the "Donald the Dove" stuff if his opponent weren't actively supporting and enabling a genocide. A Burger King clerk has as much power as Trump to feed arms to Israel right now so I suppose that’s technically true
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 18:33
|
|
|
B B posted:It would probably be easier to fight back against the "Donald the Dove" stuff if his opponent weren't actively supporting and enabling a genocide. On the contrary, you don't need to blame bad "Gonna outflank the dems from the left!" takes in 2024 on anyone other than the people making them. Eight years of contrary evidence from Trump alone have worn the plausible argument of ignorance down to nothing, leaving only dishonesty as an explanation. And even genuine bad stuff done by Dems (while Republicans shout that it's not bad enough) gives zero cover for that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 18:43
|
|
|
No Arab or Muslim American is under any obligation to vote for Joe Biden for any reason, least of all ones who have watched the entire Gazan branch of their family be annihilated over the past four months. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 18:47
|
|
|
BRJurgis posted:From what I see Americans are so politically ignorant, misinformed, and/or apathetic its starting to seem crazy that we talk about "preserving democracy". This democracy!?!?! These parties, these voters?!?!? I agree OP, this country should be run by forums.somethingawful.com posters instead of the citizens. But no it is very frustrating to actually take the pulse of the American voter and see what comes of it. Even when given the direct chance to make things better, the voters will frequently just say "No gently caress that I like how broken it is right now so we can't change it." We tried to get ranked choice voting in MA, even outspent the opposition to it so it's not a matter of monied interests quashing the momentum. It still didn't pass, in one of the most educated and "progressive" areas of the nation the voters said "gently caress it we like the broken FTTP system and two party dominance we have now."
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 18:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:09 |
|
|
koolkal posted:https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1 Where does it say in that article that Joe Biden is more extreme than independents? I see a poll of independents that now is a majority in saying that Israel’s offensive attacks has gone too far. This is much different than saying Biden’s support of Israel has gone too far.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2024 19:06
|
|
