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The Far Edge of FETE
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Mar 1, 2024 02:13
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 21:49 |
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the WoL is a real fete freak
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Mar 1, 2024 02:16
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Alder posted:Anyone else joining me on my quest to max DoH jobs? So far I maxed WVR and I'm working on all the others from lvl 50-70 atm. I already got all my relics done faster than I expected and I feel the great maw of boredom coming closer to each login. Make sure you’re doing daily GC supply and provisioning missions. You can see them quickly by pressing ctrl+u to bring up your timers menu and clicking on your GC line.
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Mar 1, 2024 03:12
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*sigh* P10S attempt hit the raidwipe at 3% because 4 of us died to Bonds after Hells (one person out of position killed another, which means the two of us who were supposed to partner with them blew up) and recovery was slow. At which point the tank said "you know, the damage I was taking wasn't too bad, should I just not LB3 and we save that for after?" We said "please don't, we're taking damage too" and apparently he didn't hear us so at Hells on the last attempt of the night he ignored it, the other tank thought he was covering it (the guy has a habit of saying "I'm pressing the thing and then the thing" and MOST of the time it's the thing we expect him to be calling a thing), and the healers thought they were going to get it and were busy recovering one person who had found a way to die during setup without ruining setup. I love these guys, I'd rather wipe with friends than clear with strangers, but I swear... straight into the sun. Seriously who goes into Hells and says "I'll just hit Divine Veil this time and that'll remove the need for LB3"? More importantly, who wasn't already hitting Divine Veil for that?
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Mar 1, 2024 05:28
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Bruceski posted:*sigh* P10S attempt hit the raidwipe at 3% because 4 of us died to Bonds after Hells (one person out of position killed another, which means the two of us who were supposed to partner with them blew up) and recovery was slow. At which point the tank said "you know, the damage I was taking wasn't too bad, should I just not LB3 and we save that for after?" We said "please don't, we're taking damage too" and apparently he didn't hear us so at Hells on the last attempt of the night he ignored it, the other tank thought he was covering it (the guy has a habit of saying "I'm pressing the thing and then the thing" and MOST of the time it's the thing we expect him to be calling a thing), and the healers thought they were going to get it and were busy recovering one person who had found a way to die during setup without ruining setup. If you have a paladin get them to save HG for that and they can stand in front with wings going the whole time, alongside DV obviously. If you need the group mit that bad then it's better for them to just ignore their rotation and stay in wings the whole way (pop the longer mits before wings just so you don't need to interrupt wings to pop them after HG runs out).
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Mar 1, 2024 07:51
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Ibblebibble posted:If you have a paladin get them to save HG for that and they can stand in front with wings going the whole time, alongside DV obviously. If you need the group mit that bad then it's better for them to just ignore their rotation and stay in wings the whole way (pop the longer mits before wings just so you don't need to interrupt wings to pop them after HG runs out). The healers *can* handle it, but not when they're expecting a tank LB3 taking the edge off and the tank has decided "I think I can survive this without an LB3 and have no concept of the damage going to the rest of the party during this" so just... doesn't use it. I think when we told him that tanks go in front because the first two take more damage, he thought that meant he took ALL the damage in that mechanic and was so tunnel-visioned on surviving that he never noticed. We'd wiped the previous time because too many people died (to a mechanic that was positioning-based not damage-based so it happening right after Hells was irrelevant) and he switched over into "I won't use this because we might need it later" mode while everyone else was still in "we're using it here so plan around that" mode.
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Mar 1, 2024 20:10
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Vermain posted:yeah i like collecting FETE toekens, what of it Is that not what you do at the start of Chrono Trigger?
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Mar 1, 2024 20:12
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also maybe he felt like he wasnt taking much damage because he had an 80% mitigation running for most of it  i tanked harrowing hell. it does a lot of loving tank damage.
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Mar 1, 2024 20:23
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Awesome! posted:also maybe he felt like he wasnt taking much damage because he had an 80% mitigation running for most of it Yeah. I love the guy but he got a promotion/new responsibilities at work at the same time he had a kid and even though it's been years since then (so it's not a baby-brain thing) his time for gaming tends to be "fall into Discord at raid time, try to remember what's going on, leave until next week". Which most of the time we can work around, sometimes it leads to boneheaded misunderstandings like this. And that's fine, his actual life DOES take priority, just occasionally it grates. I'm a "we only have 90 minutes minus however late <guy we know runs late for Reasons and don't hold against him, hard enough finding a time everyone could mostly handle> is, so come up with the plan ahead of time and stick to it" type, and he's trying to figure things out on the fly because raid time is the only time he has to do so.
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Mar 1, 2024 21:02
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ConanThe3rd posted:Is that not what you do at the start of Chrono Trigger? Those are silver points, you philistine!
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Mar 1, 2024 21:08
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Silver points are tracked on a point card (which would be currency). Fete tokens go in your inventory, totally different things.
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Mar 1, 2024 21:22
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HackensackBackpack posted:Those are silver points, you philistine! AH GONZALEZ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrqsLbdcJYo
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Mar 1, 2024 21:36
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To anyone playing on the Steamdeck, I'd recommend you update the OS and turn the GPU Clock option in performance all the way up. It's solved all but the biggest stuttering issues in the game. Namely when there's a ton of Particle Effects in play (Like the end cutscene to the HW final Boss, The opening cutscene in the STB Final boss and basically at any point Light is involved in SHB)
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Mar 3, 2024 18:47
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Having finished 5.3 I have to say I think CBU3 have got endgame dungeons down to a T. The Heroes Gauntlet is amazing.
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Mar 3, 2024 19:31
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that was a very good dungeon. final pull is kind of awkward but i liked it overall. i always pet the amaro when i run by
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Mar 3, 2024 21:26
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ConanThe3rd posted:Having finished 5.3 I have to say I think CBU3 have got endgame dungeons down to a T. The Heroes Gauntlet is amazing. They've done a great job with managing to make modern dungeons feel interesting enough to go through dozens or hundreds of times per patch. The bosses especially require just enough movement and mechanics to remain interesting without being overly taxing, which I think is a good spot to hit for something intended to be done daily.
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Mar 3, 2024 21:46
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While dungeons are at a good difficulty for something intended to be run daily I always felt that they were mind numbingly boring. I default to getting tomes from hunt trains since they're usually shorter.
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Mar 4, 2024 07:35
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leaptosleep posted:While dungeons are at a good difficulty for something intended to be run daily I always felt that they were mind numbingly boring. I default to getting tomes from hunt trains since they're usually shorter. People hate when I say it, but I do think a core problem with dungeons is that tanks are too strong in them. With the basic structure of dungeons being what they are, they just aren't capable of mustering up any complexity or difficulty past the initial spectacle when a tank can just trivialize the majority of its floor space. But of course, 'fixing' that would require the devs to see it as a problem, and historically they never have.
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Mar 4, 2024 11:50
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Cleretic posted:People hate when I say it, but I do think a core problem with dungeons is that tanks are too strong in them. With the basic structure of dungeons being what they are, they just aren't capable of mustering up any complexity or difficulty past the initial spectacle when a tank can just trivialize the majority of its floor space. Cleretic while I broadly agree that tank sustain is stupid in dungeons, it also is irrelevant for 3/4 of the people in the dungeon and probably 4/4 a not insignificant portion of the time. It is literally 0 skin off my dps nose because it has 0 relevance to anything I am doing. Also wouldn't particularly alter what the tanks themselves are doing either, which is just cycling cooldowns. So no, this wouldn't fix dungeons for anybody but healers and even that is debatable.
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Mar 4, 2024 12:09
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tank sustain in dungeons is fine. healers are there for dps and emergencies when people gently caress up heavy hitting mechanics, not to spam cure every time you're missing 3 hp or whatever
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Mar 4, 2024 12:11
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I'm not sure how you go from tanks being weaker to dungeons being more interesting as you run them hundreds of times (the treadmill is stupid, not the dungeons or tanks). Is the dungeon better if it takes 10 minutes longer because you can't pull wall to wall unless the group is vastly overgeared? Is it better because it primarily stresses the healer more and leads to more wipes (yes the wipe is possibly due to low DPS but the red jobs won't notice or even care)? Is it more exciting for DPS because they get to use their same buttons for those extra 5 to 10 minutes each run? Or do you imagine a game where each pull requires careful CC or avoiding patrols which simply doesn't work in the current framework of this game, and also won't get tedious after the first few times? E: e.g. my ideal MMO dungeons were in The Secret World, those had very few trash pulls - mostly trivial, some you could cleverly avoid and others with actual gimmicks. But the focus was on the fun setpiece bosses with various unique mechanics. Even those dungeons got tedious due to running them as daily chores for some time-gated engagement tokens, and there were obviously much fewer dungeons and the mechanics were often unpolished because the devs were awful at game balance, because it was a niche MMO. You can absolutely make dungeons "exciting" but that just reminds me 2h runs in heroic Shadow Labyrinth (WoW TBC) because someone broke the polymorph on the orc ninja who'd one-shot the healer, the rogue got mind-controlled to one-shot the mage and no one has a battle res, and 3/5 of the party utterly failed at Murmur mechanics for an hour until you either gave up or got lucky. orcane fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 12:23
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The problem is that, if you nerf tank self-sustain, the ability to keep a pack controlled (keeping the tank up so the DPS can avoid aggro) falls on the healer's shoulders -- great for competent healers who want to be active and engaged (and don't consider DPSing to be that engagement), but extremely bad for the whole group if the healer is inexperienced or otherwise struggling. Given what a high percentage of dungeons are likely to have at least one person inexperienced in their role along (because people level off-classes), the current status quo where both the tank and healer roles can keep a pull from disintegrating if the other one fucks up (and both have resources to survive a long-rear end pull if the DPS is slow) is much better than putting all the weight on one role, even if that means that roulettes where everyone is competent can end up smooth and boring.
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Mar 4, 2024 12:25
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Cleretic posted:People hate when I say it, but I do think a core problem with dungeons is that tanks are too strong in them. With the basic structure of dungeons being what they are, they just aren't capable of mustering up any complexity or difficulty past the initial spectacle when a tank can just trivialize the majority of its floor space. play DRK. I just had a Malikah's Well run where I died close to 10 times. the first two times were to mobs, I just plain ran out of mits. the following 8 times the Returning player healer couldn't parse the avoidable mechanics of the last boss and died to them every time, and the unavoidable raidwides were just too powerful I didn't have the tools to keep the party alive. 40 min run. good times.
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Mar 4, 2024 12:26
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God Hole posted:play DRK. I just had a Malikah's Well run where I died close to 10 times. the first two times were to mobs, I just plain ran out of mits. the following 8 times the Returning player healer couldn't parse the avoidable mechanics of the last boss and died to them every time, and the unavoidable raidwides were just too powerful I didn't have the tools to keep the party alive. 40 min run. good times. That's above 70 even so I'm quite impressed. DRK without TBN is a little funky though. I do think Dark Mind could do with doing like, something to augment its primary effect. It's such a weird mit because DRK rarely needs another "I can survive this one heavy hit" button.
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Mar 4, 2024 12:38
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I don't think it's a good idea to try to balance jobs around the easiest possible content that everyone should be able to do, no matter their skill level, especially considering that: - There are people out there which think that Trials are too difficult, and it puts them off completing the MSQ - There are a lot of people that have a huge amount of tank and healer anxiety, and nerfing tanks both discourages sprouts from trying to tank (because it's harder) and heal (because they have to shoulder a much bigger load).
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Mar 4, 2024 12:40
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Cleretic if you're afraid to heal extremes now how do you think you would handle the performance anxiety of healing harder dungeons? I ask because I have the performance anxiety part for extremes myself and I wasn't able to get over it before I ended up switching from DRK main to MCH main because there's far less hanging on my shoulders.
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Mar 4, 2024 12:45
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Akett posted:Cleretic if you're afraid to heal extremes now how do you think you would handle the performance anxiety of healing harder dungeons? I ask because I have the performance anxiety part for extremes myself and I wasn't able to get over it before I ended up switching from DRK main to MCH main because there's far less hanging on my shoulders. I'm not afraid of healing Extremes. I'm just not interested in doing them, because their rewards aren't rewards to me.
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Mar 4, 2024 12:54
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Fair enough I guess.
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Mar 4, 2024 12:56
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new https://store.finalfantasyxiv.com/ffxivstore/en-us/product/976
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Mar 4, 2024 13:01
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Then do savages. You can skip extremes if the rewards don't appeal to you. Savage fights aren't particularly more difficult than extremes, and are rewarding materially (because on-patch you get BIS) and also are more interesting to heal because you have to come up with mit plans and coordinate healing/mit. No one in savages cares if people have done extremes or not. Hell, I've been in statics where people cleared Ultimates without ever touching a current savage fight either.
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Mar 4, 2024 13:02
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orcane posted:new There's always bunny on the banana mount.
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Mar 4, 2024 13:09
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Tekopo posted:Then do savages. You can skip extremes if the rewards don't appeal to you. Savage fights aren't particularly more difficult than extremes, and are rewarding materially (because on-patch you get BIS) and also are more interesting to heal because you have to come up with mit plans and coordinate healing/mit. No one in savages cares if people have done extremes or not. Hell, I've been in statics where people cleared Ultimates without ever touching a current savage fight either. Why do you assume I want BiS? I don't, those aren't rewards to me either. I'll grant savages are more potentially interesting, but it's actually more because of the dyeable gear. If they ever at any point made a raid set that I'd actually want to dye and wear, I might do savages, but that hasn't happened yet. They got close with third tier Eden, but the default colors are the best on that, so.
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Mar 4, 2024 13:32
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If your rewards are just glams, I fail to see the difference between dungeons and savages, because there are always going to be dungeon gear that isn't a reward for you as well. The issue that I have with your arguments is that they are ultimately selfish, and you are a tiny subset of the population of FFXIV, with a very specific problem that doesn't affect the 99.99% of the population of the game, but you think this is a problem that the developers need to acknowledge and cater to you specifically, even though if changes were made, it would create even more issues with sprouts trying to tank/heal.
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Mar 4, 2024 14:06
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orcane posted:new Still waiting on the apple mount.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:11
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Tekopo posted:If your rewards are just glams, I fail to see the difference between dungeons and savages, because there are always going to be dungeon gear that isn't a reward for you as well. The issue that I have with your arguments is that they are ultimately selfish, and you are a tiny subset of the population of FFXIV, with a very specific problem that doesn't affect the 99.99% of the population of the game, but you think this is a problem that the developers need to acknowledge and cater to you specifically, even though if changes were made, it would create even more issues with sprouts trying to tank/heal. Dungeons give me XP and tomestones. XP I don't have use for now, but will sometime later this year, and right now tomestones are giving me pretty sharp relic weapon models. Genuinely, the motivator right now are just the Mandervillous weapons. Greanted, I'm not doing dungeons for tomestones right now, because they're boring as hell sleepwalks, especially for healers. I do the trial and normal raid roulettes, because if we're gonna play a game where only the boss fights are worth being awake for, I'm gonna do the roulettes that are all at least pretty good boss fights.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:30
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Sometimes I feel like the only sicko who gets most of his tomestones from frontlines.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:49
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I got most of my capped tomestones from doing savage reclears and running Expert Roulette once or twice a week.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:56
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I'm indifferent to whether tanks are too strong in dungeons, but I think if they keep them as strong as they currently are then healers could do with more interesting dps options. For me the issue isn't that I don't get to heal enough, it's that my non-healing tools are extremely limited. Tanks have a huge portion of their skills dedicated to damage and rotations despite being not DPS, I think healers could stand more of the same AND it wouldn't make mandatory msq dungeons harder like increased healing expectations would
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Mar 4, 2024 16:09
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Tanking is weird at the moment. The only really interesting bits of tanking are dungeons and ultimates. The first because wall-pulls are fun and you actually do want to use mit there (although some wall pulls are better than others, and I wish there were less walls so you can judgement call the pulls), the second because ultimates really force you to mit-plan effectively and make even autos extremely dangerous. Criterion also has some of the more interesting trash-pack mechanisms in the game as well. The issue for tanks at the moment is that any dungeon/criterion/trial/savage boss is pretty uninteresting to tank: they don't do enough damage to stretch your mit budget (even in savage), positioning is uninteresting because you get get mid bosses with mechanisms where facing doesn't matter or wall bosses (p11s was the only boss in the last tier in which positioning/facing of the boss was important). Like if I was completely selfish I would make mit checks harder in trials/extremes/savage/etc and remove walls from dungeons. But those thing would create negative game experiences for a lot of sprout tanks, and create additional tank anxiety for people, so I understand why they wouldn't be done, and why they would probably be detrimental to the play experience of the majority of players. I do think making healers more interesting in terms of DPS, to make them something along the lines of tank-level rotations, might be for the best.
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Mar 4, 2024 16:52
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 21:49 |
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The mit checks are fine in Ex and Savage. Ex is supposed to be fairly casual, and Savage is tuned for week 1 stuff, not BIS 20 ilvls later. Still gotta plan mit out a decent amount at min ilvl. The position though is a lost art though. Bosses either teleport to the middle, facing North, every 20 seconds or it doesn't even matter. Dungeons do what they're supposed to imo. A good tank will carry the group, yeah. A good healer will do the same in a good tank's absence. You really only get friction if both are bad, and it's for the story stuff. They're there so that literally everyone can complete them, so you need them to be carried by a single player if need be. I agree with dropping some walls though. Mt. Gulg has a few massive pulls that people don't typically try. A few other ShB dungeons offer the same, like Qitana, Akadaemia Anyder, and Paglth'an. They were there but you typically didn't see average roulette groups try them. EW killed them for some reason. Although it'd be nice if max level dungeons had a bit of teeth on them. If they were as tuned as even a single EW leveling dungeon it would be a treat.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:02
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