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rkd_ posted:He definitely still has abilities that he hasn’t used against Gojo. That’s probably also why Gojo said he probably would have lost even if Sukuna didn’t have the Ten Shadows technique.
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Mar 3, 2024 21:07
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I'm gonna say something controversial but Nerd, Chad, Kirby, Bowie, Butterflaizen, monster, ramen, or chair?
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Mar 3, 2024 21:24
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Why does sukuna even need a heart? Surely its no trouble for him to deliver oxygen to his organs without needing to rely on a crutch like blood?
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Mar 3, 2024 22:28
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Brought To You By posted:The story is pretty solidified on the topic and nothing short of Domain Expansion or the enhanced dismantle would touch gojo thanks to Infinity no matter what Gojo himself felt on the matter. The attack quality necessary has to circumvent Gojo's technique and not even [OPEN] has been implied to have that property. Why do you think Gojo said he would have been defeated by Sukuna even without Ten Shadows? This is a genuine question, I just don't know what that would otherwise add to the story.
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Mar 3, 2024 22:32
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rkd_ posted:Why do you think Gojo said he would have been defeated by Sukuna even without Ten Shadows? This is a genuine question, I just don't know what that would otherwise add to the story. In my opinion, simply because he was disheartened. As for what it adds to have Gojo say that? I honestly think it's just a dumb line meant to suck off Sukuna when it doesn't need to exist and it's not true. Sukuna needed Makora to figure out a version of cleave that Sukuna could then copy. Nothing says otherwise. And for all the thread has speculated on what Sukuna might have left, we basically know all his moves and nothing else on paper should meets the requirement of circumventing Infinity. Consider it in the same vein as the last page of the current chapter where even though Sukuna isn't at 100% already but is still taking on everyone with relative comfort. Now it's revealed that he's not held back because of the energy he's already expended or the internal damage that can't be so easily healed or because of the attacks aimed at his literal soul. But because he's bored by anyone not Gojo. It's a sour note
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Mar 3, 2024 22:51
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Sukuna could've incinerated Gojo with Fire Arrow while Limitless was down following any of their Domain clashes - hell, Gojo was forced to DE in the first place because Limitless alone wasn't cutting it. What Gojo found disheartening is he realized Sukuna was holding back on him to experiment with a way to further refine his CT, during a fight to the death were Gojo was throwing everything he had and more. He didn't even manage to burn through Sukuna's whole deck, and that stings. Ten Shadows wasn't needed. It was chosen.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:53
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Apprentice Dick posted:Nerd, Chad, Kirby, Bowie, Butterflaizen, monster, ramen, or chair? You gotta give credit where credit is due, Aizen got progressively stupider after the first twist which was legitimately well-executed, which is more entertaining than a Mortal Kombat 11 skin whose solution to everything is just "I cut it".
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Mar 4, 2024 00:25
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Conspiratiorist posted:Sukuna could've incinerated Gojo with Fire Arrow while Limitless was down following any of their Domain clashes - hell, Gojo was forced to DE in the first place because Limitless alone wasn't cutting it. What Gojo found disheartening is he realized Sukuna was holding back on him to experiment with a way to further refine his CT, during a fight to the death were Gojo was throwing everything he had and more. He didn't even manage to burn through Sukuna's whole deck, and that stings. Sukuna can't fire off a fire arrow after a domain clash for the same reason Gojo's limitless would be down. The only way Sukuna kills Gojo that way would be if he healed his brain first which wasn't the case.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:28
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Brought To You By posted:Sukuna can't fire off a fire arrow after a domain clash for the same reason Gojo's limitless would be down. The only way Sukuna kills Gojo that way would be if he healed his brain first which wasn't the case. Sukuna won their first two Domain Clashes. So he could have used the Arrow then.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:36
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Honestly the problem I have mostly is that I'm just kind of bored of the fight. It's gone on almost as long as the entirety of the Freeza fight in Dragonball Z which is itself already a pretty exhausting fight against a single opponent to read, and it's burned through like 4-5 "this would be *insanely hype* if this ended the fight" moments with no seeming forward progress, even in terms of actually capturing the interest of the guy they're fighting. To put it another way, it's a little over half as long as the entire Shibuya Incident arc was so far. Now to be fair that also includes the cutaways so it isn't 100% every chapter devoted exactly to the fight, but it's still a whole loving lot.
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Mar 4, 2024 00:47
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MonsterEnvy posted:Sukuna won their first two Domain Clashes. So he could have used the Arrow then. You are correct, my bad. If I had to make it make sense beyond Sukuna just wanting to have a tool to defeat subsequent Limitless users. It's possible that Open removes his access to his cutting techniques. Like a stance or mode character in a fighting game. He doesn't readily deploy it when there's really no harm or reason not too otherwise. It's so far just another attack unless we learn anything more special about it.
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Mar 4, 2024 01:17
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Conspiratiorist posted:Sukuna could've incinerated Gojo with Fire Arrow while Limitless was down following any of their Domain clashes - hell, Gojo was forced to DE in the first place because Limitless alone wasn't cutting it. What Gojo found disheartening is he realized Sukuna was holding back on him to experiment with a way to further refine his CT, during a fight to the death were Gojo was throwing everything he had and more. He didn't even manage to burn through Sukuna's whole deck, and that stings. nah he'd win
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Mar 4, 2024 02:09
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i feel like i am nuts for kinda loving this lol, i like the choreography a ton
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Mar 4, 2024 02:18
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:You gotta give credit where credit is due, Aizen got progressively stupider after the first twist which was legitimately well-executed, which is more entertaining than a Mortal Kombat 11 skin whose solution to everything is just "I cut it". But aizen's fights were super boring. he literally would just stand there as attacks bounce off his fat reiatsu. sukuna's much more engaging just by virtue of letting his opponents hit him.
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Mar 4, 2024 02:22
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This chapter was rough, not in writing but in art. It was clearly not done. Gege needs a break, this reminds me of some of MHA's rougher chapters.
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Mar 4, 2024 03:45
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Blaze Dragon posted:This chapter was rough, not in writing but in art. It was clearly not done. Gege needs a break, this reminds me of some of MHA's rougher chapters. The later stuff was okay but some of the early panels were Greed Island level. Dude needs a longer break
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Mar 4, 2024 03:55
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tbp posted:i feel like i am nuts for kinda loving this lol, i like the choreography a ton Nah it’s pretty good, but Sukuna really needed other minions to break this up a bit. Little cuts to Uraume ain’t doing it for the breaks needed. I also think this a case of he’s getting weaker but he hasn’t brought out all his techniques like the fire arrow, rather than him just no selling the attacks as an alternative interpretation of the dialogue presented. Once we understand what the fire arrow is and what it means, we’ll be in the last stretch of the fight
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Mar 4, 2024 04:34
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Asuron posted:Nah it’s pretty good, but Sukuna really needed other minions to break this up a bit. Little cuts to Uraume ain’t doing it for the breaks needed. I mean that doesn't mesh with the dialogue which flat out states his CE is low because he's bored. Unless that is proven wrong then that is what it is saying. He isn't weakening, he just doesn't care enough to try.
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Mar 4, 2024 04:40
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ImpAtom posted:I mean that doesn't mesh with the dialogue which flat out states his CE is low because he's bored. Unless that is proven wrong then that is what it is saying. He isn't weakening, he just doesn't care enough to try. Again, that’s his minion saying it. But he’s clearly taking immense damage and every other character thinks so. We don’t have to take what one character is saying as the explicit truth of how the situation is playing out, because they’ve all had different interpretations of how it’s going Same with the Gojo stuff , he didn’t bring out all his techniques so Gojo felt he didn’t give it all his all solely on that basis, it doesn’t mean he’s holding back more energy. Why he also didn’t use those techniques is debatable, but it really appears to be it came down nothing else he had being able to pierce Limitless even though Gojo thinks he would have found another way through.
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Mar 4, 2024 05:00
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Asuron posted:Again, that’s his minion saying it. But he’s clearly taking immense damage and every other character thinks so. We don’t have to take what one character is saying as the explicit truth of how the situation is playing out, because they’ve all had different interpretations of how it’s going We're discussing a work of fiction. When the villain smugly goes "I'm having no trouble at all" and then the next page is a good guy character going "We're totally winning" only for the villain's minion to go "Actually you're not" and sit ends the chapter on a dramatic shot of the villain looking intimidating, there's no actual reason to assume "Oh actually they are entirely wrong." Characters can be wrong but it would be a frankly baffling bit of writing for it turn out to be wrong here. Again, they're not discussing techniques. They are flat-out discussing Sukuna's Cursed Energy output. It has nothing to do with techniques but how Sukuna's CE output is wavering because he's not interested in the fight and not taking it seriously. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 05:19
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I thought Sukuna was really cool until this everyone vs Sukuna arc. I actually love the idea of Sukuna having not been putting in the effort in these fights, him holding back cause everyone here was beneath him. Except that him doing that needs to be his downfall. Everyone is working hard and giving it their all, and Sukuna is just trying to have fun, then be realizes he’s actually on the back foot and suddenly he starts to try and take it seriously but it’s too late and he can’t recover in time. But this last panel has me worried that actually he’s going to turn it around and only a deus ex machina can save our cast.
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Mar 4, 2024 06:26
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ImpAtom posted:We're discussing a work of fiction. When the villain smugly goes "I'm having no trouble at all" and then the next page is a good guy character going "We're totally winning" only for the villain's minion to go "Actually you're not" and sit ends the chapter on a dramatic shot of the villain looking intimidating, there's no actual reason to assume "Oh actually they are entirely wrong." Characters can be wrong but it would be a frankly baffling bit of writing for it turn out to be wrong here. I mean, you know that's a common framing device, used in most fiction to say " the protagonists aren't of out of the woods yet, so better keep on your toes for surprises". You're reading it as him no selling the attacks and holding back, I'm reading it as he's still got tricks up his sleeves and is going to pull them out, but is being pushed to the wall while it happens. My version makes more sense narratively, than your version which says the author is actually saying he's no-sold everything and the protagonists have no chance of winning at all. That would be truly baffling if that's how it plays out, because then what was the point of any of them fighting him? How does this end except in a "Sukuna wins, humanity is hosed" ending on that path , which you know maybe that's how this does play out. I'd be fine with a bleak ending, it does follow along the storys current path of" cursed society is detrimental to everything, the only way to begin again is burn it all down and find another path", which the merger could definitely lead to. Asuron fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 06:32
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Asuron posted:I mean, you know that's a common framing device, used in most fiction to say " the protagonists aren't of out of the woods yet, so better keep on your toes for surprises". Yes, your version does make more sense narratively, which is why people are frustrated because what the story is actually saying is not that. . Until this chapter "Sukuna is being worn down and is weakening" seemed to be the story that is being told, where fight after fight was draining his cursed energy reserves and while he still had tricks he was weakening through sheer attrition. That is also what the characters believed. Now we're being told the characters believed wrong and Sukuna's CE is lessening because he's lost interest in the fight and he hasn't even begun to really fight and that the entire rest of the cast combined doing their absolute utmost with skilled perfect planning doesn't equal One Gojo. It's probably setting up for the deus ex machina that is going to win the day (which probably is going to be Yuji's Body Swap thing which still hasn't been fired off) and that's absolutely fine, but it's disappointing to see so many cool moments undercut with "and he didn't even really feel compelled to try." (Obviously if he gets his poo poo wrecked because he was too bored to fight until it was too late then that'll be awesome, but I have my doubts.)
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Mar 4, 2024 06:44
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I get why people are annoyed because this fight has been insanely long (and cool), but I don't think the last page is anything other than your typical serialized "TUNE IN NEXT TIME TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS" stinger that we got at the end of every episode of DBZ. It's a weekly publication and they need to move units. Serialized stories generating artificial cliffhangers to keep readers engaged and wanting to buy next week/months edition doesn't strike me as something that will have a serious impact on the other 95% of the chapter and story. (Please let this be true)
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Mar 4, 2024 08:44
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rest in peace hisoka
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Mar 4, 2024 08:59
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"actually Sukuna isn't even trying and you've done 0 damage" If it was just "Sukuna still hasn't revealed his ultimate attack" or something like that I wouldn't mind but this feels more like Uraume saying he doesn't even need to do that and is having 0 trouble being hit by all that. That for me is undercutting the tension because it doesn't feel like "they're doing really well but we know he has some nasty as hell trump to play". It just feels like "oh I guess they are having 0 success and he still has a trump to play if he wanted". At least Hakari is having a good time.
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Mar 4, 2024 13:03
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it is pretty interesting that Hakari who is one of the strongest 1v1 fighters is still having trouble with Uraume, while Gojo effortlessly one-shot them. Many many levels in difference.
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Mar 4, 2024 13:06
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UnderFreddy posted:it is pretty interesting that Hakari who is one of the strongest 1v1 fighters is still having trouble with Uraume, while Gojo effortlessly one-shot them. Many many levels in difference. She is one of the nastiest 1v1 counters to him though. Uraume's ice is about locking him in place rather than destroying his body. Normally he relies on tanking attacks and hits but I'm assuming all the ice stuff is about holding him in place where his hyper RCT healing won't do much unless he can tear himself out like he did with his frozen leg.
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Mar 4, 2024 13:16
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I mean, it was hilarious how heavily we saw the difference in Shibuya when Jogo effortlessly torches a handful of tired but very strong sorcerers. Yeah it would have been different if Dagon didn't exist, but no one can be under any illusion that it would have mattered. Uraume is the only sorcerer Sukuna seems content to call his companion/attendant, so there's no doubt they must be overwhelmingly powerful compared to the average sorcerer. I still hope we get some explanation of how they managed to persist through time to the modern day. Honestly I wonder if Hakari will even win, but I'm guessing the reversal in both fights will come at about the same time. It's funny that Maki is easily a special grade now and both she and Yuta are only remotely competitive because Sukuna is running the whole gauntlet of modern day sorcerers. You have to imagine that even if Yuki were still around the situation would be loving dire. I'm sure that the narrative is not going to end up being "Sukuna no sells all this damage next turn and smokes everyone", but I do want to see the smugness start to fade soon. We're at like 40 chapters and it's taking up a reasonable fraction of the entire manga. Also, his smugness has to be his downfall in mirroring Gojo's own false enlightenment. If Gojo had just killed Kenjaku and Sukuna immediately after being released, this would all have never happened, but he took that risk to try and save Megumi but also to prove to himself that he was truly the strongest, and these are the consequences of his "Nah, I'd win"
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Mar 4, 2024 13:49
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Uraume was also incarnated by Kenjaku, just seemingly earlier than everyone else he incarnated during the culling game. This was apparently confirmed in an info book or something in one of the volumes. You can also tell cause the first time Uraume greets Sukuna in shibuya when he’s taken over Yujis body he doesn’t recognized them immediately. Presumably if Uraume was in their original body Sukuna would’ve clocked that right away.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:48
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Oh, I was hoping for something neat like using the ice technique for cryo sleep.
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Mar 4, 2024 17:39
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JahRoo posted:Uraume was also incarnated by Kenjaku, just seemingly earlier than everyone else he incarnated during the culling game. This was apparently confirmed in an info book or something in one of the volumes. IIRC Volume 25 changed a line so that Kenjaku revealed Uraume’s vessels name (Shiori Himi) when he added the rule that the Culling Game ends when every player except Kenjaku, Sukuna and Uraume dies. In the original chapter release Uraume was left out of the rule.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:05
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sukunas definitely being worn down a lot through these fights though. his own internal monologue said as much. i think it's fair to not take uruame entirely at their word, they are sukuna glazers first and foremost
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Mar 4, 2024 21:29
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I think maybe its time for me to reread the series from the start for the first time. There is so much stuff I barely remember
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Mar 4, 2024 21:53
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Jose posted:I think maybe its time for me to reread the series from the start for the first time. There is so much stuff I barely remember it's a lot of fun honestly
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Mar 4, 2024 22:12
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Go back, reread, and enjoy with the realization you're also getting to witness Gojo's better half at its peak
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Mar 4, 2024 22:15
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tbp posted:sukunas definitely being worn down a lot through these fights though. his own internal monologue said as much. i think it's fair to not take uruame entirely at their word, they are sukuna glazers first and foremost I can see that last panel becoming "Nah, I'd win" levels if Sukuna eats it before he "takes the fight seriously"
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Mar 4, 2024 22:26
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To be honest I'd forgive ever single problem I had with this fight if it ends with Sukuna pointing at himself and going "Nah, I'd win" before splitting into 27 pieces because Maki decided Megumi wasn't worth the save.
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Mar 4, 2024 23:02
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My assumption at this point is that Urame would be right if he had Yuji's body where he was perfectly in sync with the shape of its soul, but somehow that he's been suppressing Megumi is going to gently caress him at a critical junction. It could be very true that he's been holding on to powering up, but that doesn't mean he successfully will. Sukuna even admitted while he isn't excited by this fight, it is taking a toll on him annoyingly. I think the pitch that he has stuff in reserve he will be surprised that he's not able to use or use fully seems p plausible. I think both pieces of what the chapter showed us can be true, and it's going to come down to which side is more in the right and we nor the characters really know.
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Mar 4, 2024 23:06
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from a booking perspective I will simply not be satisfied if he dies without going all out. I also do not think gege would make that mistake, which is good, but the longer this goes in this vein, the more difficult it becomes to envision a route where sukuna goes all out and his loss is still satisfying.
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Mar 4, 2024 23:09
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