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Mar 13, 2024 14:00
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| # ? May 27, 2024 00:41 |
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I made a little DBZ timeline. https://x.com/vgcartography/status/1767899049754067301?s=20 I think of it as always repeating that first couple sagas, but I guess it was mostly over one year that happened. Seemed like forever.
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Mar 13, 2024 14:04
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Pureauthor posted:Freeza saga DBZA remains my overall favourite. Just like the real thing then 
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Mar 13, 2024 14:23
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The pain of the pioneer releases ending right when Goku confronts Jace and Burter is a painful childhood memory. FIND OUT NEXT TIME ON DRAGONBALL Z or not, for years.
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Mar 13, 2024 15:55
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Roos? 17, am I smarter than you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43K9rwA5GW0&t=108s
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Mar 13, 2024 15:59
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To some degree it's absolutely amazing Dragonball took off like it did in the US. You got a strange awkward censored dub that started partway through the series that basically offered little to no explanation of the characters or setting. (Piccolo is Goku's archnemesis for... all of one episode), awkwardly made its way through the series until it stops unceremoniously at a random battle midway through the saga. And we ate that poo poo up.
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Mar 13, 2024 16:09
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I believe the US started with DBZ as well (for the anime at least, I believe we got the whole manga in order however) so we were essentially tossed right into the middle of the story and yet it was still super popular regardless
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Mar 13, 2024 16:12
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ImpAtom posted:To some degree it's absolutely amazing Dragonball took off like it did in the US. In a sense, that added to the show's mystique. So many elements of the Dragon Ball canon were unknown or only available as tantalizing hints, making you want to learn more. I remember being excited when they would show clips of the original Dragon Ball (like Dr. Gero's robot spying on everyone) because it was a look into something we couldn't have (at least, not yet).
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Mar 13, 2024 16:13
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ImpAtom posted:To some degree it's absolutely amazing Dragonball took off like it did in the US. I think it helped that the first two arcs of it were probably two of the best arcs in the whole thing. Like the Saiyan saga is clearly pretty amazing even standalone, I can’t imagine how it was for someone reading/watching for half a decade and seeing Nappa absolutely slap the poo poo out of everyone they grew up with
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Mar 13, 2024 16:21
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Z is better with the context from the OG Dragon Ball honestly (otherwise you’re not really given much reason to care about characters like Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu and Piccolo’s grudge against Goku seems kind of random). Not sure what the initial Japanese reaction to DBZ was though
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Mar 13, 2024 16:28
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think it helped that the first two arcs of it were probably two of the best arcs in the whole thing. Oh, they're great arcs, it's just like from the perspective of sane writing, "A dude with three eyes, some kind of midget mime, and YAMCHA all show up without much comment at all" is incredible. Oh hey, there's a spikey-haired dude and his son has a tail (as he did once too). He is visiting a weird old man, a midget and a scientist woman on an island before a guy with even spikier hair shows up, smacks him and kidnaps his son before revealing he's an alien. There's also a green demon man who hates the spikey-haired dude but instantly teams up with him to fight the strong guy. There's a random pig man. God is a green demon man too! If it came out today and somehow nobody had knowledge of Dragonball it would probably get panned for being incoherent and insane.
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Mar 13, 2024 16:34
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ImpAtom posted:God is a green demon man too! I wonder how many other American kids thought he was a communist since they called him Kami in the dub (Japanese word for God, cuz it's the 90's and you can't mention God).
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Mar 13, 2024 16:43
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I think all of that complexity was definitely part of the appeal. Most other cartoons on TV at the time were extremely episodic, with their entire premise and backstory spelled out in the theme song ("This group of kids lives in this city/playground/cul-de-sac and has adventures"). You had stuff like Batman, but that still reset to more or less a status quo every episode. The popularity of pokemon primed kids for something similar in a continuing narrative, but even that had more self-contained episodes and didn't really have the deeper lore and cast of characters. With DBZ though, there was the show itself and there was this whole additional world behind it, some of which was accessible to you and some of which was not. I remember asking kids on the bus that knew more than I did about Saiyans, and especially about Super Saiyan since we hadn't got those episodes but everyone saw the form in opening themes, action figures and stuff. I think I knew the entire premise of all the arcs of GT, and that it was considered bad, before I ever had the opportunity to watch even a second of it. And the misinformation on the early internet made you unsure of what all of it was true -- I had a friend who adamantly insisted that Goku had already achieved Super Saiyan against the Ginyus, but the form with gold hair and blue eyes was actually called Super Saiyan Jin, just misinterpreting the Japanese. Also, remember Dragonball AF?
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Mar 13, 2024 16:50
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It is still funny to see the dissonance when you see someone watch OG Dragonball for the first time when they only know it from DBZ. https://x.com/DoobusGoobus/status/1767799654383567018?s=20
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Mar 13, 2024 16:59
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In the US, some DB content did air prior to DBZ taking off. I remember renting the VHS movie Blood Ruby or something in the early 90s, so I had a vague idea who Goku was when it popped up on Saturday mornings years later (but not the others). It was like the first DB arc but slightly different.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:01
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Original DB was airing alongside DBZ and GT here in Canada.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:07
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I had a Dragonball movie I bought from a kiosk in the japan section of Epcot where Dracula was going to blow up the sun with his supervillain giant laser cannon and you saw kid Goku's dick. Also kid Krillin was at the start of the movie was just cool traveling around sitting on the head bison or something of a giant herd of them just running around. You were real cool, kid krillin. I dunno which one that was.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:09
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American kids were already well versed with convoluted action shows. I didn't start watching Power Rangers until late into the first season, and only learned any backstory through reruns. Heroes teaming up with villains, bad guys just rolling up that we've never seen before who have beef with the main hero, useless side characters all over the place, etc. were already staples of action shows kids watched. I think it's the fighting that really pulled everyone in. No one in the west had really seen that kind of fighting on TV before, let alone in animation. It was fast and intense. A passing familiarity of games like Street Fighter had us all primed.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:11
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The first season of Power Rangers was not convoluted. It was also basically completely episodic.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:17
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Unlucky7 posted:It is still funny to see the dissonance when you see someone watch OG Dragonball for the first time when they only know it from DBZ. I’m gonna be the one to say it, early Dragonball was rough and there’s a lot of elements and, particularly some jokes I’m glad Toriyama ditched moving forward.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:25
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More people should read the manga.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:28
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Yeah, the show doesn’t really start becoming the Dragon Ball we’re most familiar with until around King Piccolo (maybe Tien’s debut at the earliest) and there’s a lot of tasteless humor I’m glad they dialed back on later on (though Super had a scene with Roshi that was arguably just as bad if not worse)
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Mar 13, 2024 17:31
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Star Man posted:American kids were already well versed with convoluted action shows. I didn't start watching Power Rangers until late into the first season, and only learned any backstory through reruns. same with like, teenage mutant ninja turtles. there'd be occasional main plot progression inbetween the episodic adventures. but its not remotely similar to dbz, where each episode flows directly into the next with no real reset to status quo. dbz doesn't have monsters of the week - even fairly throwaway threats like the saibamen have an impact on the narrative. power rangers did not have a putty blow up and kill the pink ranger and then goldar steps in and spends 5 episodes murdering another half of the cast, and then those characters are just straight up not in the story again for 60+ episodes until they are revived. power rangers did not have them go to an entirely new planet because all those people died. look especially at the early namek arc with all the pingponging of the dragon balls, the three way struggle over them between frieza's forces, vegeta, and krillin and gohan, and tell me there was anything remotely like that for kids on american tv. Endorph fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Mar 13, 2024 |
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Mar 13, 2024 17:31
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Now I'm wondering what the first serialized non-anime cartoon in the US was. There's all kinds of middle grounds (stuff like Batman or Flinstones or whatnot which was episodic but did have continuity) but I mean flat-out episode-to-episode ongoing plot.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:35
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heck even these days there's very few american-made cartoons like that. even something like avatar had largely self-contained episodes. there was way more of a continuing narrative than power rangers but there isn't nearly as much of direct flow from episode to episode as dbz.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:35
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ImpAtom posted:Now I'm wondering what the first serialized non-anime cartoon in the US was. There's all kinds of middle grounds (stuff like Batman or Flinstones or whatnot which was episodic but did have continuity) but I mean flat-out episode-to-episode ongoing plot. Rocky & Bullwinkle technically (though there might have been something before that)
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Mar 13, 2024 17:38
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ImpAtom posted:Now I'm wondering what the first serialized non-anime cartoon in the US was. There's all kinds of middle grounds (stuff like Batman or Flinstones or whatnot which was episodic but did have continuity) but I mean flat-out episode-to-episode ongoing plot.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:43
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rocky and bullwinkle is kind of a weird one because the individual episodes flowed into the next episode in the story but the stories didn't connect. a lot of the old film serials are like that too.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:43
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ImpAtom posted:Now I'm wondering what the first serialized non-anime cartoon in the US was. There's all kinds of middle grounds (stuff like Batman or Flinstones or whatnot which was episodic but did have continuity) but I mean flat-out episode-to-episode ongoing plot. Exo Squad(1993) might not have been the first, but it definitely falls into this box(and predates DBZ being widely available in the US). It has full narrative arcs with multiple character perspectives and lasting consequences like characters dying onscreen. There's a few one-off threats that serve kind of the role of a monster of the week, but even most of those are rolled into the overarching plot in an ongoing manner(as an example, bad guys coerce a scientist to make a superweapon, good guys blow up the superweapon but also rescue the scientist who was forced to make it and he becomes a recurring character).
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Mar 13, 2024 17:44
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ImpAtom posted:Now I'm wondering what the first serialized non-anime cartoon in the US was. There's all kinds of middle grounds (stuff like Batman or Flinstones or whatnot which was episodic but did have continuity) but I mean flat-out episode-to-episode ongoing plot. 90s Spiderman?
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Mar 13, 2024 17:45
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Raxivace posted:Did stuff like the Superman serials from the 1940's have any real continuing plot? I've never seen any of those outside of some clips but that would be my first guess. No, they were all self contained as I recall
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Mar 13, 2024 17:47
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Gargoyles had some plot/character progression, but it was only really emphasized in the much longer second season. And even then, it was mainly just episodic while the lead characters were floating around on the Avalon boat, with a few multi-episode arcs interspersed. I think they dropped even that when it moved to ABC Saturday morning for the third season, and that ended up being disowned by the fandom much like DBGT, for basically the same reasons. The quality was much poorer, and many of the original staff were no longer involved.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:55
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istewart posted:Gargoyles had some plot/character progression, but it was only really emphasized in the much longer second season. And even then, it was mainly just episodic while the lead characters were floating around on the Avalon boat, with a few multi-episode arcs interspersed. I think they dropped even that when it moved to ABC Saturday morning for the third season, and that ended up being disowned by the fandom much like DBGT, for basically the same reasons. The quality was much poorer, and many of the original staff were no longer involved. They apparently fired the creator after the first episode of Season 3. He did go on to make his own comic version of events that’s still ongoing but I’ve never read it so I’m not sure how good it is
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Mar 13, 2024 17:58
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TheKingofSprings posted:90s Spiderman? The X-Men cartoon predates that by a couple years, would that count?
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Mar 13, 2024 18:02
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Justin_Brett posted:The X-Men cartoon predates that by a couple years, would that count? Did it also have multiple 5 part episodes and basically have the whole last season be one continuous story? If so then yes. Also Reboot started being continuous in the middle of season 2 E: Reboot definitely is earlier, 95-96 is the start of it being fully serialized
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Mar 13, 2024 18:04
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Larryb posted:They apparently fired the creator after the first episode of Season 3. He did go on to make his own comic version of events that’s still ongoing but I’ve never read it so I’m not sure how good it is He's had it going under a couple of different publishers that have licensed the old Disney afternoon stuff. The original publisher went under, so the first arc of the comic revival is basically no longer available, as far as I can tell. I unfortunately haven't kept up with the resumption that started a couple years ago, both because I don't live near a comic shop anymore, and because the plot progression in comic form is frustratingly slow. It seems like he's using the old rule of thumb that 2 manga chapters = 1 anime episode in reverse, so like one or maybe two major plot beats will happen per issue, we'll get to check in with a couple of supporting characters, but there might not be any satisfying resolution. Disney's suddenly promoting an X-Men '97 revival that looks pretty cool; I wish they'd take a chunk of that money and let Weisman rip with all the crazy Gargoyles spinoffs he had planned.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:04
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istewart posted:Disney's suddenly promoting an X-Men '97 revival that looks pretty cool; I wish they'd take a chunk of that money and let Weisman rip with all the crazy Gargoyles spinoffs he had planned. Ironically the showrunner was just fired for unknown reasons (and instantly scrubbed their social media accounts.)
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Mar 13, 2024 18:07
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istewart posted:He's had it going under a couple of different publishers that have licensed the old Disney afternoon stuff. The original publisher went under, so the first arc of the comic revival is basically no longer available, as far as I can tell. I unfortunately haven't kept up with the resumption that started a couple years ago, both because I don't live near a comic shop anymore, and because the plot progression in comic form is frustratingly slow. It seems like he's using the old rule of thumb that 2 manga chapters = 1 anime episode in reverse, so like one or maybe two major plot beats will happen per issue, we'll get to check in with a couple of supporting characters, but there might not be any satisfying resolution. I think the comics might still be available digitally on Amazon
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Mar 13, 2024 18:15
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I think my very first Dragonball experience was actually reading and impulse buying (okay, getting my mom to buy them for me) volumes of 39, 40, and 42. You may notice that those are pretty much the last few volumes of Dragonball. And inexplicably skipping a book because kid me was an idiot, I guess. Suffice to say when my dad surprised me with a gift of the entire manga in a set and I read the story properly from the first time I realized I had very wrong ideas about initial character dynamics (like Vegeta's, well, everything.) Just thought I'd mention this here as long we're discussing kids first being introduced to DBZ with random long lost brother, green slug dude who was apparently an archnemesis, and the hero dying in the first major battle.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:22
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| # ? May 27, 2024 00:41 |
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Beast Wars was fairly serialized, too. I don’t really remember feeling like the serialization aspect was unusual, probably because the 90s Spider-Man cartoon was pretty heavily serialized and I was into that.
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Mar 13, 2024 18:26
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