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neat catch here https://twitter.com/arnorrian/status/1769119186721050973
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Mar 17, 2024 05:12
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Did Dunc1 mention Duke Leto’s dad dying in a bullfight? Did they have bull heads as decorations in the movie?
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Mar 17, 2024 05:37
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Yes and yes.
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Mar 17, 2024 05:40
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 Ok then movie-onlys should be able to piece together what this is. Nice. Somebody pointed out on TikTok that the theme of the bull was charging into something dangerous and thinking you’re going to be ok. Paul’s grandfather did it with the bullfighting, Leto did it with Dune knowing it was a trap (Harkonnen means ox in Finnish) and Paul does it several times over the first book Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 05:43
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You know I liked Villeneuve's first Dune flick quite a bit on a technical level, but there were some choices made and some changes and stuff added/cut from the book/whatever, I liked it A LOT but had some nitpicks about it at the same time. This part 2 though, this is just fuckin' great on basically every level. It really impressed me how much every change they made was for the better. I liked the script a lot more, the action (I mean I know the last movie's part of the story doesn't have A LOT of action anyway but still) was a big step up, they got Babs Olusanmokun back for a little bit which was wise because they fuckin' killed it with so little screen time in the last movie. Chani getting way more to do compare to how in the book her ferocity/etc. generally gets described instead of shown, Jessica being way more sinister, how they handled Alia, they really did not half-rear end any aspect of how this was put together. Plus they not only had the party/arena scene but everything about that whole part of the movie that was changed/new ruled. When we first saw some bits of it in promo stuff I was confused by the washed out grayness and of it but in the context of how the rest of that part of the flick goes it was amazing, that whole part of the movie was a great surprise. With the way Chani gets fleshed out in this and how much more openly sinister Jessica is I am like insanely loving hopeful that Villeneuve does get to do an adaptation of Messiah also since this is kind of going opposite of how these folks go in the first two books. I think I only had two issues with this movie if I had to be picky -I miss you Thufir  Should have kept him around in the service of the Baron but also subtly loving with Rabban's rule or something (but with the same gregariousness he has in the first movie the whole time).-The score, it didn't reach [ancient lamentation music] in Justice League levels of silly, but that vocal wailing but I would have maybe removed that completely, the moments where it was used would have been better without it, felt almost like parody when Chani storms out of the council. Other than that excellent, no notes. Who's everyone's favorite minor character? I think mine might be the woman who's job is to drown the worms to produce more water of life. Also imagine being a regular person living on Giedi Prime, owned, just lmao, lol
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Mar 17, 2024 08:06
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Neo Rasa posted:Who's everyone's favorite minor character? I think mine might be the woman who's job is to drown the worms to produce more water of life. The Harkonnen mentats who power a holographic battle map just by chanting. Or the pilot with the lenses glued to his face who speaks in a calm and confident fashion around Rabban, which makes you immediately think "well this guy's gonna get his neck- oh there it goes." Also, did we ever find out why Irulan was wearing chain mail all the time? It looked rad, obviously, but I'm not sure what the intention with that was.
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Mar 17, 2024 08:31
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Tree Bucket posted:The Harkonnen mentats who power a holographic battle map just by chanting. Or the pilot with the lenses glued to his face who speaks in a calm and confident fashion around Rabban, which makes you immediately think "well this guy's gonna get his neck- oh there it goes." Hahaha yes that guy ruled The guys hooked up to the map, what French comic or whatever is that from? IIRC it was something that popped up in Jodorowsky's Dune stuff, and it's also a thing in the Flash Gordon movie too there's a similar group of guys wired up to some surveillance stuff, in that flick they rip one of their eye pieces or whatever off and they call cry out and collapse dead hehee Irulan's armor dress outfit was rad. It reminded me a bit of the women in the metal cocktail dresses hanging around the Baron during the arena scene. It kind of fit the disco ball motif of the Emperor's throne room ship in a way. But also very very loosely made me think of like Euro sci-fi comics or stuff like the "Emperoress" in Jodorowsky's Metabarons, so might have just been there because it's cool which is also fine. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 08:33
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The guy in the headpiece everyone's talking about looked straight out of ADVENT from XCOM2 to me.
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Mar 17, 2024 09:18
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https://x.com/drukavi/status/1769188738419351716?s=46 Irulan’s outfit goes from leisurely to medieval armor over the course of the movie, as she goes from “things are fine” to “oh poo poo”
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Mar 17, 2024 10:52
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Steve Yun posted:https://x.com/drukavi/status/1769188738419351716?s=46 That's just how Florence Pugh showed up to set.
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Mar 17, 2024 11:15
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Looks like a combination of old-timey warrior stuff with the Bene Gesserit's veil, implying divided loyalties between her father and her order. Also just looks paranoid, even if it's redundant with an actual shield.
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Mar 17, 2024 13:07
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Tree Bucket posted:Also, did we ever find out why Irulan was wearing chain mail all the time? It was perfectly clear to me why, it's explained pretty thoroughly in this post: Tree Bucket posted:It looked rad,
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Mar 17, 2024 13:24
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The Emperor's clothes at the end looked like a robe made to evoke the impression of chain, but obviously fake because he's an old man whose strength is waning in every sense. He's usually described as intentionally dressing in a military fashion to remind people that the Sardaukar are his true backing power. Irulan was just going in more wholeheartedly on the look. But also, yes,Tree Bucket posted:It looked rad
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Mar 17, 2024 16:24
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Their whole aesthetic is a combination of ostentatious luxury and militarism. The Harkonnens are reminiscent of Nazi Germany and dark cyberpunk poo poo and Atredies a sort of lawful good military aesthetic reminiscent of the quote unquote good guys in wars. Thurifs uniform is basically a British WWI general uniform for instance
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Mar 17, 2024 16:33
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https://twitter.com/Thatoneguy64/status/1769145447254311408 agreed unfortunately. Walken is obviously a great actor but "Weapon of Choice" aside, an odd pick for this role. The best way I can say it is he's not a sci fi guy. He just can't inhabit a weird planet and act natural. I can think of several actors who would've done better but my restrospective pick is James Cromwell, aka Uncle Ewan from Succession. - looks and sounds "imperial". He's 6 freaking 7, and has what I'd call a "severe" tone of voice. And at least for us Americans, an English accent helps us place a "royal" role. - he's a sci fi guy. Did many bit parts as various aliens on Star Trek. He would understand Dune. - he's just as old as Walken, but more of a bitter, world weary vibe that you'd expect the emperor of the known universe to have after a long reign.
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Mar 17, 2024 18:04
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:https://twitter.com/Thatoneguy64/status/1769145447254311408 I agree, it seems Walken was basically stunt casting. I expected way more from him. Denis, you could have cast BRIAN BLESSED, at least it would be entertaining.
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Mar 17, 2024 18:08
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I agree that Walken isnt giving it his best, but I actually think his overall disinterest kind of lends itself to the emperor. He's just so tired looking and I think that's the perfect vibe for this person who basically picked a fight he thought he wouldn't lose and it's just biting him in the rear end. MrMojok posted:Who's everyone's favorite minor character? I think mine might be the woman who's job is to drown the worms to produce more water of life. Yeah, big fan of her. On my second view I noticed she is trying to imitate the weird thumping noise the worms make naturally when she has it wrapped around her before drowning it, as it fit calm it down. TheBigBudgetSequel fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 18:11
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I had really high hopes for Walken in this- at his age I was hoping this could be a sort of crowning performance for his career. Unfortunately he took me out of every scene. He didn't do a poor job, he just didn't have the presence / command I would have expected. He seemed just like a pathetic old grandpa. Maybe that's what DV was going for but I definitely wanted a more Charles Dance-like performance. I've thought a lot about this and I think a slightly aged up Sam Rockwell would have been a cool choice. He has such range, it would have been interesting to see him in a role like this. E: Also I know it's not a "minor" character but Babs Olusanmokun as Jamis is by far my favorite non-major character of the films. I don't think I've ever seen an actor, especially a newcomer, embody a character more fully than he did. The juxtaposition of him as a hateful, seething antagonist and a compassionate guide and surrogate father (in Paul's visions) was the highlight of part 1 for me. The way DV wrote / directed that dichotomy articulated the "seeing multiple possible timelines play out" idea so beautifully, and so tragically. So much to write about on this, but Jamis as a John the Baptist / necessary sacrifice was a part of the novel, but an absolute highlight and focus in the film. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 18:19
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:I had really high hopes for Walken in this- at his age I was hoping this could be a sort of crowning performance for his career. Unfortunately he took me out of every scene. He didn't do a poor job, he just didn't have the presence / command I would have expected. He seemed just like a pathetic old grandpa. Maybe that's what DV was going for but I would have wanted a more Charles Dance-like performance. Charles Dance might be a bit too typecast at this point because of GOT but goddamn what an emperor of the known universe he'd be.
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Mar 17, 2024 18:21
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Saw this film for a second time on 70mm and oh man it really does look amazing in that format. It really adds an extra bit of life and warmth and texture. I enjoyed this even more the second time round, although I have to resign myself to the fact that a lot of the story beats and human-level stuff in Denis Villeneuve films will seem smothered or out of joint. But hey ho, I was more able to just luxuriate in the world-building this time. Along these lines, can anyone help me to parse Paul’s mindset at the start of the film? During his first real dialogue scene, when they’re eating a meal in the Fremen camp, he comments cynically that “your bene gesserit propaganda has taken root” or something along those lines, but he also suggests that he definitely plans to take advantage of the whole Lisan al-gaib thing to gain power and get revenge on the Harkonnens. Then shortly afterwards, when Jessica is comatose after drinking the water of life, he talks to the Fremen, forcefully rejects the idea that he and his mother are anything special, and insists that he isn’t interested in leading and only wants to integrate into Fremen society. So, like, what changed? He seems sincere, as this reluctance becomes a major motivation for him going forward. But IIRC at this point we haven’t seen him start to be swayed by appreciation for Fremen culture and personal affection for Chani. He hasn’t had another holy war prophetic vision between the two scenes, has he..? I know he had one in the tent in DUNC1, but he still seemed basically pro-messiah at the opening of DUNC2, or resigned to its strategic necessity anyway. Did I miss something super-obvious here?
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Mar 17, 2024 18:32
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:I agree that Walken isnt giving it his best, but I actually think his overall disinterest kind of lends itself to the emperor. He's just so tired looking and I think that's the perfect vibe for this person who basically picked a fight he thought he wouldn't lose and it's just biting him in the rear end. like he knows he's done, just feels it in his bones, and is just going through the motions towards the inevitable. that or he just half assed it. it might have been different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki_3px1wQio
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Mar 17, 2024 18:42
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:https://twitter.com/Thatoneguy64/status/1769145447254311408 TheBigBudgetSequel posted:I agree that Walken isnt giving it his best, but I actually think his overall disinterest kind of lends itself to the emperor. He's just so tired looking and I think that's the perfect vibe for this person who basically picked a fight he thought he wouldn't lose and it's just biting him in the rear end. Yeah I liked what he was going for with it. It's hard to top Jose Ferrer though in the Lynch movie though. Again not in the movie much but he really nailed that description of the character in the book where every time he speaks it's like he's acknowledging you and disinterestedly dismissing you at the same time. But I didn't really get that like transition like in the book from him where he has nothing to worry about until he does. He seemed a bit unflappable to be honest especially with this dialogue to Paul about why he had his dad killed/etc. Makes me wonder if instead of dying off screen Villeneuve was going to have more of him if he makes Messiah or something. But also, I guess you could say it's a more realistic performance for someone at that level of power. Like even in defeat this guy's the emperor surrounded by his Sardaukar and he wasn't immediately killed by Paul right then and there, so is he really going to suffer much (I know how it plays out in the book but still), like are people on the prison soldier planet (where he gets sentenced to in the book) really going to poo poo on this guy or kill him or is he just going to be in the equivalent of what rich people guilty is like today where basically nothing happens. Would have been fun to have Walken go full ham of course too, like imagine Walken delivery bellowing out that line "BRRING me that floating FAT man! The barON!" All in all an odd casting choice which had me expecting more but whatever, I didn't think he was bad. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 17, 2024 |
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Mar 17, 2024 18:43
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Damian Lewis woulda killed it plus bonus ginger accuracy.
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Mar 17, 2024 18:47
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Steve Yun posted:https://x.com/drukavi/status/1769188738419351716?s=46 also the last one where she has that cage/grate over her mouth feels like a kind of on the nose metaphor for her and paul's loveless marriage - she's not for kissing
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Mar 17, 2024 18:53
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Wtf guys, it’s Christopher Walken Best supporting actor in Deer Hunter Christopher Walken He’s not a disinterested actor playing an emperor He’s accurately playing an emperor who’s used to all his tools of power taking care of things for him and suddenly being helpless when forced to answer for poo poo himself, something he’s never had to do before.
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Mar 17, 2024 19:02
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I think the performance fits the character but unfortunately the actor's reputation precedes him. It would be like nicolas cage playing the emperor, you wouldn't go "that's emperor shaddam the 4th" you would say "that's nicolas cage."
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Mar 17, 2024 19:17
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Steve Yun posted:Wtf guys, it’s Christopher Walken He’s playing Christopher walken in a bathrobe Sorry to break this to you
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Mar 17, 2024 19:26
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That’s BAFTA and SAG award winning best supporting actor for Catch Me If You Can Christopher Walken in a bath robe
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Mar 17, 2024 19:29
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CelticPredator posted:He’s playing Christopher walken in a bathrobe Yet another movie that would be way better if it was rated R
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Mar 17, 2024 19:40
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Lobster Henry posted:Did I miss something super-obvious here? The driving point, I think, is that he absolutely wants his revenge no matter his perspective on the Fremen and his place among them. So that never changes. And he's absolutely having more visions of holy war, it's a big part of the nightmares that are haunting him when he wakes up in his tent with Chani. But then Sietch Tabr happens. He's been outplayed. Being clever and sneaky is all well and good until the enemy knows where to drop the hammer. And as they say in the aftermath, it's happened to more than just Tabr, but most if not all of the northern sietches. So there's literally nowhere for Paul to go but south anyway - he tries to stay alone in the north but all of the other fighters declare that they'll just stay with him, implicitly to get massacred alongside him. Plus, Gurney has dropped the promise of nukes in his hands. These new old weapons are clearly tempting. And what is prescience but another weapon for his war? He'll grab one forbidden weapon, may as well grab another. After that, well, it's the old adage about power.
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Mar 17, 2024 19:46
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notably, after sietch tabr is obliterated, paul mentions "I didn't see this coming" the implication is that it compels him to take the water of life. in the film, the destruction of the sietch replaces gurney halleck's assassination attempt on jessica in the book as the inciting event which prompts paul to become the k.h.
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Mar 17, 2024 21:01
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Mar 17, 2024 21:53
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See, that’s a name that sounds appropriate for 30,000 years in the future
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Mar 17, 2024 22:05
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I hope that means Grimes is gonna get face tattoos like Jessica.
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Mar 17, 2024 22:06
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Naib, we have reclaimed the water of this Grimes outworlder... but those who taste it say it is like someone ashed out a cigarette in it.
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Mar 17, 2024 22:09
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kalel posted:notably, after sietch tabr is obliterated, paul mentions "I didn't see this coming" The final straw is when he has a vision of Jamis saying something like "when I'm crossing the desert, I climb the tallest dune to see as far as I can", i.e. "don't reject the advantage prescience will give you if you drink the water of life"
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Mar 17, 2024 22:40
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I followed all that, although tbh I’m not sure that the attack on Sietch Tabr, as presented, can entirely bear the weight of being the turning point in this whole arc. But I was really just focusing on what seems like a weird little beat the very start of the film where it’s like: Scene one: Well, I think I’d better make the best of it and pretend to be these guys’ messiah for my own ends Scene two: I have no interest whatsoever in doing that, actually
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Mar 17, 2024 22:52
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I took it to be that early on, he hoped he could use the Fremen religious beliefs for his own ends without it leading to a holy war, but as the events progress and his visions become clearer, he realizes that his choices are basically death or holy war, and he almost chooses the former.
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Mar 17, 2024 23:06
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Walken comes off worse to me because De Niro just came off one of his best performances ever in a supporting role. I didn't hate how Walken did it, and I thought it made sense for how the Empire was depicted, but he wasn't bringing heat
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Mar 17, 2024 23:15
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I think we were supposed to take him as coming to genuinely like the Fremen and wanting to be one of them for a bit, reversing on the idea of using them except insofar as they all want to kill Harkonnens. They're the first people he really has companionship with as an equal, and the girl he's falling in love with holds that idea higher than special leaders of any sort. He's ready to just be Usul, a Fedaykin and Fremen. But then everyone else is pushing him and stuff goes to poo poo, and the Duke's Son comes back to the fore along with the Prophet Muad'dib.
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Mar 17, 2024 23:17
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