Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


Tunicate posted:

A question from reddit,

dude orders one PS5 online, they screw up and deliver two. Is he allowed to keep both under the UCC (claim an 'improper delivery' because it didn't match the invoice, and accept the whole lot)?

That's how I got free Lego when they shipped me a master case instead of the single set.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

toplitzin posted:

That's how I got free Lego when they shipped me a master case instead of the single set.

Dang save some pussy for the rest of us

OPAONI
Jul 23, 2021

blarzgh posted:

Dang save some pussy for the rest of us

Sorry I ordered one pussy but got shipped all of it, sucks to be everyone else.

toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


Where the fraud happens is when you send 1 back for a refund and keep the other 98.

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

blarzgh posted:

Dang save some pussy for the rest of us

The pussy store called, they’re running out of you

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Tunicate posted:

A question from reddit,

dude orders one PS5 online, they screw up and deliver two. Is he allowed to keep both under the UCC (claim an 'improper delivery' because it didn't match the invoice, and accept the whole lot)?

UCC 2-601 gives you the right to accept the lot or deny the lot, or accept partial (as long as commercial reasonable efforts are made to not lessen the value of the non accepted lot)

it doesn't mean you get to keep the poo poo for free. you still have to pay. you just dont have to accept and cant be forced to accept non conforming goods.

He's just not obligated to pay to send it back. if they send him prepaid return packaging and he didnt send it that would be conversion/theft.

companies let you keep poo poo because it costs more to get items back sometimes then then make on selling them and other poo poo, its not because legally you get to keep whatever shows up at your doorstep

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

blarzgh posted:

Dang save some pussy for the rest of us

Murder is illegal itt

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

EwokEntourage posted:

UCC 2-601 gives you the right to accept the lot or deny the lot, or accept partial (as long as commercial reasonable efforts are made to not lessen the value of the non accepted lot)

it doesn't mean you get to keep the poo poo for free. you still have to pay.


He already paid for the lot in advance. Then the company made a delivery in fulfilment of their deal, and it was nonconforming, but he decided to accept it in full anyway.

From what i understand, the buyer even can choose to accept nonconforming lots which have only a few items in common, or no items in common, with the invoice at all (which happens fairly frequently at fast food establishments across the nation).

I could be misunderstanding, though. If the drivethru gives you a large soda instead of a medium are you actually legally on the hook to pay for the extra mountain dew?


Does the UCC have options for a seller's recourse when a buyer accepts a delivery, and the seller has second thoughts about it?

The Pirate Captain
Jun 6, 2006

Avast ye lubbers, lest ye be scuppered!
I once ordered a watch and they delivered two by mistake. I didn’t do anything with the second and after 3 weeks they emailed and asked for it back. They sent a box and I sent it back and it was done, but I did keep the extra free hat that came with it. Am I going to jail?

Arkhamina
Mar 30, 2008

Arkham Whore.
Fallen Rib
Dumb question, perhaps - but how do they get the pool of people for Jury Duty? I had thought it was voter registration (could be wrong!). I have been registered to vote for *28 years* and I have never once gotten a summons. I have friends who seem to get a letter every 3-4 years.

I am weirdly a little jealous.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

The Pirate Captain posted:

I once ordered a watch and they delivered two by mistake. I didn’t do anything with the second and after 3 weeks they emailed and asked for it back. They sent a box and I sent it back and it was done, but I did keep the extra free hat that came with it. Am I going to jail?

Yes, but it's not related to the order or the hat

CellBlock
Oct 6, 2005

It just don't stop.



Arkhamina posted:

Dumb question, perhaps - but how do they get the pool of people for Jury Duty? I had thought it was voter registration (could be wrong!). I have been registered to vote for *28 years* and I have never once gotten a summons. I have friends who seem to get a letter every 3-4 years.

I am weirdly a little jealous.

It's usually voter registration, but some places will also use DMV records, property records... basically any big lists of people.

I never got summoned living in the same apartment for like 14 years, but then bought a condo and got paperwork for both the county and federal. (And then sat on a federal trial for 2 months.)

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Tunicate posted:

He already paid for the lot in advance. Then the company made a delivery in fulfilment of their deal, and it was nonconforming, but he decided to accept it in full anyway.

From what i understand, the buyer even can choose to accept nonconforming lots which have only a few items in common, or no items in common, with the invoice at all (which happens fairly frequently at fast food establishments across the nation).

I could be misunderstanding, though. If the drivethru gives you a large soda instead of a medium are you actually legally on the hook to pay for the extra mountain dew?


Does the UCC have options for a seller's recourse when a buyer accepts a delivery, and the seller has second thoughts about it?

you could be, if they wanted to go after you for it. but they don't want to. they just eat it at a loss.

the point of the UCC and similar contract laws is that people get the benefit of the bargain - you get what you pay for, and you get paid for what you deliver. Your friend paid in advance for one unit. He got two units. He does not get the second unit for free unless the seller decides not to pursue getting the unit back. The seller has the right to demand the return of the property, the seller has to pay the cost associated with returning the product (or risk forfeiting the product), and if your friend refused/ignored them they could go after him for it. (subject to a poo poo load of caveats)

There are various remedies under the UCC and contract law for all sorts of poo poo. the main goal is that everyone receives the benefit of the bargain

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
Is there a difference between a single package with 2 PS5s and two separate packages with a single PS5? When does it change from a single non-conforming lot to two different lots. If you want to do business with the company in the future you'll want to cooperate, but at some point getting random packages becomes unordered merchandise right?

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Guy Axlerod posted:

Is there a difference between a single package with 2 PS5s and two separate packages with a single PS5? When does it change from a single non-conforming lot to two different lots. If you want to do business with the company in the future you'll want to cooperate, but at some point getting random packages becomes unordered merchandise right?

With the assumption that removing a single grain does not cause a heap to become a non-heap, the paradox is to consider what happens when the process is repeated enough times that only one grain remains: is it still a heap? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-heap?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
When you attempt to remove a grain that has already been removed, this potentially corrupts the memory manager that handles the heap, meaning that the future behavior is undefined. While a heap technically remains, attempting to put anything else on it may cause unexpected failures.

Please do not attempt to remove sand that is no longer present.

abravemoose
Jul 2, 2021
I was hoping for a questions about law thread since this one is more focused on questions of... legality or legal service? but I'm trying to put together information on states with filial responsibility laws for the elder care thread in the BFC forum. And it's hard to find answers through the major search engines. Ads, SEO from firms for elder law and the like.

Wikipedia has a list of states under the 'Filial responsibility laws' but no references to information about the laws where I could even confirm they exist.

I'm looking a reputable site or sites to reference that these laws exist and where one could read about them, certainly not interpret what they say.

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

abravemoose posted:

I was hoping for a questions about law thread since this one is more focused on questions of... legality or legal service? but I'm trying to put together information on states with filial responsibility laws for the elder care thread in the BFC forum. And it's hard to find answers through the major search engines. Ads, SEO from firms for elder law and the like.

Wikipedia has a list of states under the 'Filial responsibility laws' but no references to information about the laws where I could even confirm they exist.

I'm looking a reputable site or sites to reference that these laws exist and where one could read about them, certainly not interpret what they say.

I’d probably start by using Google Scholar to look for an article or note that has done a 50 state survey on the topic.

abravemoose
Jul 2, 2021

Kalman posted:

I’d probably start by using Google Scholar to look for an article or note that has done a 50 state survey on the topic.

Thanks, I was able to find something that at least lists statutes in each state https://jcjl.pubpub.org/pub/v2-i1-kethineni-rajendran-falial-responsibility#xq9r6wd9a3.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

abravemoose posted:

Thanks, I was able to find something that at least lists statutes in each state https://jcjl.pubpub.org/pub/v2-i1-kethineni-rajendran-falial-responsibility#xq9r6wd9a3.

You could also probably then go state by state and see if you can find an attorney blog article on each statute that might give a more in-depth description of its operation.

To increase SEO and visibility, attorneys will often sit down and write either website articles which are pretty light, or state attorney education articles which are very dense on subjects. Something like eldercare is definitely going to be done by somebody, although some of the more dense results like continuing legal education articles. Maybe beyond the layperson's understanding

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

blarzgh posted:

Maybe beyond the layperson's understanding

...he said, with a superior mien

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
This high falutin tribalism in lawyerly society must cease!

I am a free man of the land and my subjective understanding of the letter of the law is all that applies to me, the person a flippy floopy floop
























What do you mean you have "a tazer"

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
The Power of P. Barnes compels you!!

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

Nice piece of fish posted:

This high falutin tribalism in lawyerly society must cease!

I am a free man of the land and my subjective understanding of the letter of the law is all that applies to me, the person a flippy floopy floop
























What do you mean you have "a tazer"

That maybe a tazer and it not maybe a taser.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




Do any of the lawyers ITT have experience with the SF-86? Do PhD advisors typically count as a "Foreign Contact"?

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
I would count that as a foreign contact, absolutely. A PhD advisor is someone you worked with for years in a close, professional setting on a topic important to your life.

The types of foreign contacts you can leave off are stuff like a neighbor you occasionally chatted with, a person you worked with professionally for a while on a job and then didn't contact after the project was done or the like.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Whiskey smash in the rain time



lol this was for the cocktail thread but please enjoy

:cheers:



Absolutely nothing has happened with the lawsuit or the bankruptcy. Supposedly the insurors are going to talk to us about a mediated "global settlement" but I'll believe it when I see it.

Sooner or later the next thing that'll happen is I'll get one of these calls:
1. The appeal has been denied, proceed to #4.
2. The appeal has been approved and I guess we get to have another trial?
3. Some sort of mediation is actually going to happen.
4. Some stuff has been sold and is either going into the kitty or maybe a disbursement of some sort will actually happen? Which I guess could happen before 1 or 2 unless they were to post bond?

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




At a haunted house, it seems acceptable to dress up like Leatherface and chase people around with a chainsaw (I assume the blade is removed). If I did the same thing some summer afternoon downtown, I expect I'd get arrested. Legally, what is the difference?

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

Skunkduster posted:

At a haunted house, it seems acceptable to dress up like Leatherface and chase people around with a chainsaw (I assume the blade is removed). If I did the same thing some summer afternoon downtown, I expect I'd get arrested. Legally, what is the difference?

Consent.



















Really loving hope you know what consent means, or you're going to learn whether you want to or not

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
And to a related and lesser extent, forseeability

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005





Is it consent if you don't know what you are consenting to? What got me thinking about it was a horror movie I watched where college kids went into a haunted house and started getting killed off. I thought the twist was going to be that they didn't actually kill anybody and it was all part of the show (like the movie April Fool's Day). In this case, no, I don't know where you legally draw the line on consent and that is why I am asking. Is it somewhere between a guy in a clown mask saying "boo" and believing that you are in actual danger of death or severe bodily harm? That is why I used the real world example of getting chased by a chainsaw at a haunted house. Most people have no idea that you can remove the blade from a chainsaw, so I think that it is reasonable for them to think they may be in actual danger even though they are at a haunted house.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Relevant

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/30/an-extreme-haunted-house-requires-page-waiver-critics-say-its-torture-chamber/

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Skunkduster posted:

Is it consent if you don't know what you are consenting to? What got me thinking about it was a horror movie I watched where college kids went into a haunted house and started getting killed off. I thought the twist was going to be that they didn't actually kill anybody and it was all part of the show (like the movie April Fool's Day). In this case, no, I don't know where you legally draw the line on consent and that is why I am asking. Is it somewhere between a guy in a clown mask saying "boo" and believing that you are in actual danger of death or severe bodily harm? That is why I used the real world example of getting chased by a chainsaw at a haunted house. Most people have no idea that you can remove the blade from a chainsaw, so I think that it is reasonable for them to think they may be in actual danger even though they are at a haunted house.

You can consent to things without knowing all the details. A suit would be judged on a reasonable factors based on the totality of the situation.

You typically consent to a certain type of experience, ie, jump frights, flashing lights and eerie music, etc., but no physical contact. Being afraid is an expected result, look up assumption of risk and similar subjects if you want to know more. But if they hit you or something violent like that, or prevented you from leaving, that’s be a violation of consent etc

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005





I thought this type of thing was only in horror movies, but this guy is doing it for real and covering his rear end legally. I guess you can consent to almost anything with a two hour video presentation and a 40 page waiver.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Skunkduster posted:

I thought this type of thing was only in horror movies, but this guy is doing it for real and covering his rear end legally. I guess you can consent to almost anything with a two hour video presentation and a 40 page waiver.

The Something Awful Forums > Ask/Tell > Legal Questions: I guess you can consent to almost anything with a two hour video presentation and a 40 page waiver.

tildes
Nov 16, 2018
I was reading this New Yorker article on the Lucy Letby case, which I was not super familiar with before: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-it

In it, they discuss how articles had been taken down in the UK because of a contempt of court law, since they disagreed with the official verdict in the case. I read a bit about this law, but have had trouble figuring out how it actually tends to work. As someone from the US, this law seems sort of insane. Can someone more knowledgeable tell me about how this law tends to work/if it seems useful on the whole? I’m curious about it since it just seems so different from the US approach (not that this necessarily makes it bad) and allowing others to comment and publicize wrong decisions seems like a common and important way to right wrongs in the Justice system.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Here's the rules, they're online: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Reporting-Restrictions-in-the-Criminal-Courts-September-2022.pdf. The core principle is 'juries tend to read newspapers and have friends'. You simply cannot have a fair trial if the jury can see every decision the judge makes about the conduct of the trial being questioned by an unqualified and uninformed peanut gallery. We also just do not want anything like the partisan shitshow that was the environment surrounding the say, the Rittenhouse trial anywhere near us.

In the case of Letby, while there's lots of interesting stuff about systemic failures in the hospital system and prosecution to learn from, something the Yorker really buries in that piece is the I AM EVIL I KILLED THEM confession note they found in her house which kinda seals the deal on whether she did it.

e: I'll also add, the rule not that you can't question a judgement. A few people in the UK have done this in national media (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12552809/peter-hitchens-lucy-letby-not-guilty.html). What you can't do is comment on the rightness of a judges decisions in how they want to run the trial. The main issue in this instance was anonymity for some of the witnesses called, but the proper place to debate that is in the courts and our media actually respect that.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 10:12 on May 14, 2024

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Alchenar posted:

Here's the rules, they're online: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Reporting-Restrictions-in-the-Criminal-Courts-September-2022.pdf. The core principle is 'juries tend to read newspapers and have friends'. You simply cannot have a fair trial if the jury can see every decision the judge makes about the conduct of the trial being questioned by an unqualified and uninformed peanut gallery. We also just do not want anything like the partisan shitshow that was the environment surrounding the say, the Rittenhouse trial anywhere near us.

What about the cops in the case getting their own Netflix special?

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Phil Moscowitz posted:

What about the cops in the case getting their own Netflix special?

UK police are spectacularly bad at PR and will step on every rake possible. But they are at least doing it after the event.

e: the core problem with the narrative that Letby was a scapegoat for NHS institutional failures is that the actual institutional failure was that doctors kept going to managers saying "holy poo poo if you leave this woman alone in the ward then we come back in the morning to dead babies, this pattern is far too obvious to be ignored" and the response was "please stop making complaints about your colleague, we intend to do nothing". NHS management is rotten and complacent, but in that way.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 11:48 on May 14, 2024

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
Are you talking about the doctor who moonlighted as a guest on TV where he guessed diagnoses for naughty children?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply