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Quackles posted:Who or what is Kari the Kobold? Mod NPC for Baldur's Gate - I used to be very active in that game's modding scene, and made two NPC mods myself. Originally it was mostly notorious for being the only furry mod in that community - kobolds in the Forgotten Realms were originally very doglike as opposed to reptilian and possibly related to dragons - but even after that became accepted in the community Kari remained infamous for being an extremely overwrought romance mod that automatically disqualified every other woman vying for the PC's attention if they were in the party because Kari was just that beautiful and wonderful. Pun-Pun, on the other hand, is from the 3.5E character optimization community, and is a thought exercise using a kobold to twist the rules as written until they squealed to make one of the most theoretically broken characters possible in the system.
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May 1, 2024 17:47
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Gun Jam posted:Is the AI always this bad, or only on easy? The *only* thing the difficulty changes wrt to the crusade is resource income and recruitment numbers. All the battles are the same.
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May 1, 2024 18:06
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Yikes. Kind of glad I missed the baldur's gate 2 era on rpgs. Dare I ask what mods you made? If that's not too personal.
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May 1, 2024 18:06
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Drakenel posted:Dare I ask what mods you made? If that's not too personal. I made two. Darian is a lovely brooding handsome loner dude I wrote when I was in high school. Valerie, on the other hand, remains talked about positively by goons to this day. She was for BG1, and her BG2 component (including ToB) was about 80% finished before stuff happened and the project died. A goon asked for and received all her WIP files for BG2, so maybe she'll get finished someday. Nerdy lesbian sorceress in the awkward position of being a Lawful Good representative of the Cowled Wizards, who are very much not Lawful Good.
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May 1, 2024 18:11
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If anyone is curious about the kind of insanity involved in the construction of Pun-Pun, here you go: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build) There have been a few versions of him, but that should give you the idea of the sort of thing that's involved.
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May 1, 2024 19:32
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Pun-pun is a aesop about the dangers of unchecked rule bloat and feature creep. I've know irl people who wanted to play a character like him. Imagine the 'wow cool robot!' meme but for game mechanics.
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May 1, 2024 20:13
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Pun Pun is hilarious but it's basically purely a thought experiment.
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May 1, 2024 20:31
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If I had 5k to spend on one of these games, I’d make my inserted NPC the following- a) a party member. Complete a short side quest to recruit them, it’s not much drama beyond the immediate and then you have a badass Druid or whatever. b) a decent person. c) a hot no strings attached romance option if you’re into them and easy to shut down if you’re not. You can also friend zone them if you prefer. Minimal drama. I guess my custom NPCs run more towards the dlc types than the usual NPCs we get in these games. If we got the option to recruit Crinukh, Kaylessa, or that pirate backer NPC from Kingmaker as a companion, or any kind of lasting reward, I bet players would be a lot more forgiving of them. Just an idea.
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May 1, 2024 20:50
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If I had 5k to get my own custom NPC, I'd make a random crusader that goes 'wow, look at this cool new thingamabob I got! it'll surely get me through the crusade!' then on the next big battle setpiece you find an unnamed corpse with said thingamabob on his body. Bonus points if whatever it is would have been really helpful an hour ago, like something to deal with the swarms at Leper's Smile long after you've been there.
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May 2, 2024 07:29
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Could go full-on Smith the Horse from Ultima. A character that shows up and gives you mysterious and insightful hints... shortly after you've finished the relevant questline. Every time they swear they'll get you good information next time and run off, only to come back to do it all over again.
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May 2, 2024 07:53
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I probably would have gone with 'Here's a cute couple of married women who give you a magic item and some gold because they're retired adventurers and don't need this anymore' or something along those lines. But I have never backed a kickstarter, and probably never will. I don't have so much money that I feel comfortable paying money for what may prove to be a game I won't actually enjoy when the finished product is delivered.
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May 2, 2024 14:11
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I've backed about sixty games on Kickstarter at this point, including this game and its predecessor. I view it as kind of game agriculture; I'm paying now and I'm getting the results of paying for games a few years ago, so it all kind of works out once the ball gets rolling. That said, I can't imagine dropping thousands of dollars on a game unless I somehow became so rich that that was a meaningless amount of money to me. While the idea of having something I made be in a published game forever is cool, it's not "spend the rent money" cool. I just back at the "get me the game" level; since that's generally 1/2 to 2/3 of the normal retail price, I can afford for a third of the games that I back to fail or be complete duds and still break even. (The actual rate so far is more like one fifth; it'd probably be lower if I didn't back a few goon projects on general principles.) Obviously whether this works depends on how specific your requirements for games are; it's not an approach which will be good for everyone.
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May 2, 2024 14:40
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Cythereal posted:I probably would have gone with 'Here's a cute couple of married women who give you a magic item and some gold because they're retired adventurers and don't need this anymore' or something along those lines. So like Viv from Legends and Lattes?
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May 2, 2024 14:49
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bunnyofdoom posted:So like Viv from Legends and Lattes? I don't know who or what that is. idonotlikepeas posted:Obviously whether this works depends on how specific your requirements for games are; it's not an approach which will be good for everyone. I maintain that I'm actually quite easy to please with video games.  It just seems to be that the big things I find appealing are rather niche.
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May 2, 2024 14:51
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Cythereal posted:I don't know who or what that is. It's a book I just finished, which I think you'd really really enjoy. Goodreads link
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May 2, 2024 15:05
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Imagine having five thousand bucks just laying around you could use to troll every other player by buying the worst, most insipid, boringest NPC you could muster.
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May 2, 2024 15:44
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I'd want to have a regular-looking npc with no portrait or even a name that just stands around in the background somewhere that you can't talk or interact with. And the game to have an achievement for finding and correctly identifying all the backer npc's.
Poil fucked around with this message at 18:39 on May 2, 2024 |
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May 2, 2024 18:02
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I have backed games on Kickstarter. Maybe I will again someday. As a game audience, I don’t like to think to myself every potential game out there is bad. It still bothers me when backer characters stink, though. I can’t help but wonder if a game writer could not have improved them and if they didn’t, why? “My kobold had to put down every mythic path except Trickster.” “My pirate has to be a misogynistic rear end in a top hat and be thought of as cool.” “Perrin has to accidentally kill his wife.” “This relationship has to break up and go bad.” Etc etc etc. Why does this vicious cycle have to continue? It’s not entertaining to me.
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May 2, 2024 18:38
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I remember reading somewhere that despite being requested and prompted by the backer, the entirety of the quest arc and characters is still written by Owlcat. Broadly I think building your game by committee in order to draw funding is a compromise of art, so if I back anything it's the root tier that is usually just the game at a slight discount.
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May 2, 2024 19:00
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SettingSun posted:I remember reading somewhere that despite being requested and prompted by the backer, the entirety of the quest arc and characters is still written by Owlcat. Broadly I think building your game by committee in order to draw funding is a compromise of art, so if I back anything it's the root tier that is usually just the game at a slight discount. I think this was the case in Wrath, but not in Kingmaker. And I believe the change was at least somewhat due to the utter garbage that was the backer story/quest in Kingmaker, along with just being on more stable footing since it was no longer their first game.
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May 2, 2024 22:45
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Cythereal posted:I don't know who or what that is. It's a slice of life fantasy novel.
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May 2, 2024 23:26
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Lord Koth posted:I think this was the case in Wrath, but not in Kingmaker. And I believe the change was at least somewhat due to the utter garbage that was the backer story/quest in Kingmaker, along with just being on more stable footing since it was no longer their first game. So they need better writers for backer quests either way. Ugh.
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May 3, 2024 00:10
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The backer questline in Kingmaker was particularly egregious with how out of place it was and how Mary Sue the main NPC was portrayed.
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May 3, 2024 01:05
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It's a bit of a tricky balance. Even if they are doing all (or some) of the writing, they have to abide by what the backer asks them to do, and there's no saving some concepts. If you say "my NPC is a cool pirate who is a saucy rogue and gets the MC to fight hell knights for him" and refuse to budge, that's what's going to end up in the game. It's possible to say no to some concepts or adjust things, but the last thing you want, especially as a first-time game dev, is to have someone who dropped $5000 on your game wandering around the Internet telling everyone how you cheated them out of that money and didn't make what they asked for. That kind of thing isn't real good for your next campaign.
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May 3, 2024 02:35
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The one time I've paid extra on kickstarter to put my name into game content, the developer later turned out to be a sex pest.
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May 3, 2024 19:09
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Cultist Simulator? I was pretty bummed out by that one, although thankfully I only bought in at the game level.
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May 3, 2024 19:14
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Wait, I thought our mysterious kobold buddy was made as a response to Deekin (kobold bard from Neverwinter Nights)?
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May 3, 2024 21:45
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Deekin was a well written entertaining character, though. Couldn't be related.
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May 3, 2024 22:04
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So, fun fact I discovered while loving around with Crinukh and Toybox: he can't die, ever. If you come back to him as one of the evil paths you can try to kill him, but he mocks you and escapes through a portal in a cutscene while you just stand there like an idiot.
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May 4, 2024 01:23
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Skin Deep Back when Act 2 started, Yua was approached by a Mendevian inquisitor investigating Daeran's past - specifically, tragic but mysterious events that took place at Heaven's Edge, the manorial estate where Daeran grew up. After massaging Daeran's ego a little, he invited the crusade to his original home.    "The revered cleric Nestrin, my guardian and tutor, often told me that those who live a sinful life may expect to join the Abyssal hordes after they die. This is why their path is the most despicable of all: a part of their soul may return to Mendev in the abominable form of a demonic invader. Every time we see a demon, we might as well think about it. What if this wretched creature used to be your great-great-grandfather? What if certain parts of this pointy-tailed beauty used to belong to your pious cousin? They say that the demons represent the sins of the souls they are made of. Succubi emerge out of lustful souls, vandals turn into abrikandilu, gluttons become nabasu. I for one am determined to commit as many different sins as possible, so that the distributive mechanism of the Abyss breaks when it tries to decide what to do with my soul. You, my dearest guests, will be my assistants in this complicated task. Eat, drink, and indulge yourselves in whatever vices you can. Let nobody leave this house as righteous as they entered it! Live every day like it's your last. After all, nobody knows when that day will arrive, do they?" (Daeran smirks, finishes his wine, and tosses the glass to the ground.) The problem with that theology is that Daeran never seemed to acknowledge the difference between accepting and moderating your vices, and being ruled by them. Moderation is the enemy of extremism, not extremism in a different direction. At least that's the line I always give people when they say I'm rather strange for an azata.  "Did you find anything interesting?" "Nothing, really, I just took note of a few things. I attempted to find out whether anything unusual or mysterious has happened to the Count over the last ten years. During my conversations with his acquaintances, two people noted that he never speaks of the revered Nestrin, the priest of Iomedae who was his guardian and tutor. Yet he just mentioned Nestrin in his speech, whatever that might mean." "You told me that you had tried to find out if anything odd had happened to Daeran over the last ten years..." "Some of his servants complained about strange occurrences in the house, like objects moving by themselves, or candles going out. Of course, that could simply be a figment of their imagination. It is also very well known that the Count often invites various spellcasters to entertain him, and encourages them to use their magic in mischievous ways. Practically the whole of Mendev knows the story about the three drunk wizards and their teleportation race across the roofs of Kenabres after a party at the Count's house. What I'm trying to say here is that any fluctuations in residual magic at his house are not at all surprising. There was the matter of the abduction, however... A gang of bandits kidnapped the Count hoping for a ransom, but the only reward they got was death. Afterward, the Count told everyone that he had hired the bandits himself as a joke. The other mercenary squad that freed him and executed the bandits was also in his employ. Nobody really wanted to delve too deep into this case after confirming the identities of those wretched cutthroats. But there was one disturbing fact about it all, and I don't mean the Count's bizarre idea of fun. The mercenaries who supposedly freed him had also cut off the bandits' heads — after they had already killed them." "Their heads were cut off? You mean the bandits who attacked Daeran?" "Yes. Perhaps I wouldn't have even noticed this detail had I not visited Heaven's Edge right after the tragic incident. I remember that we also found several headless bodies, both of guests and demons. We thought they had been decapitated during the fight." "My companions and I have been finding severed heads among our belongings recently. Strangely, things like this weren't a problem before Daeran joined the party." "What? That is an alarming coincidence. Now we have another reason to conduct an investigation. It is crucial that we find out what exactly happened at that tragic feast." "So what do you need me to do?" "Now that's the hardest part. I need to dive deep into the past of this place, which requires casting several different spells over some time. It would be very convenient for me if nobody interrupted the process, especially the Count himself. I don't think he remembers my face, but a suspicious stranger casting unknown spells might attract his attention... All in all, what I want you to do is to distract the master of the house. Right now he is playing host in the very place I'd like to start with."So yeah, when I called attention to that severed head in Yua's inventory - and more have appeared since then - that was not random and it only starts happening if you recruit Daeran. There's several ways through this sidequest, with successful and unsuccessful results, I'll just show one successful path.  The whole party you've recruited is here (minus any mercenaries you recruit like Katarina), and everyone but Ember and Regill is partaking in the revelry. Yes, even Nenio is 'conducting an experiment on how many glasses of wine it takes to produce a measurable state of inebriation.' To advance the plot, though, Yua picks up some wine from one of the tables here.  "Sometimes the most casual occurrences dictate our life's course." "I'm afraid that is not always the case. Sometimes it is dictated by alien, but wholly deliberate forces." [Spill some wine on Daeran's suit] "Oh, I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to!" "Hmm, and did you also not mean to ruin a suit that cost more than a thoroughbred? Don't fret, I have a spare. Just you wait, when I return I shall look even more stunning!" It felt like such a shame to do that to an expensive bottle of wine, but the needs of the crusade must.    "A child is usually a reflection of their parents and caretakers. Countess, will you allow the humble tutor of this young man to address the guests and the man of the hour as well?" (A new face appears. It is a handsome old man with a strong, dignified posture and a voice that emanates power.) "Can't we have just one day without your sermons? It's my birthday, after all!" (Ten years ago, the young Daeran had an utterly angelic appearance. His table manners and expression lack the dignity of a true angel, however.) "Dae! I'm sure the revered Nestrin only wanted to hug you and offer you his best wishes on your birthday! Wait... What... What's that noise...?" (The shrill laughter rings in your ears and reverberates in the base of your skull. In the vision, a lilitu appears before the guests of the estate and gives them an exaggerated, scornful bow.) "The sorceress of evil has come to your celebration, mortals. Did you prepare a treat for me, too?" "What do you want, spawn of the Abyss?" "I've already done everything I wanted to. Hey, you, doddering cleric, look around! Don't you notice anything odd? The plague is in your wine, in your food, in the air around you... in your blood. Soon you will all die. Pray to your pathetic goddess and call upon your healing powers all you want, but they're not going to help you. Nothing will help you. I will give you a chance to see it for yourselves, and when I return, the grave realization will have already sunk its teeth into your throats. Oh, how I love watching mortals in their final desperate hours!" (The demon finishes her speech with an air kiss to Daeran, making him freeze in horror, and disappears.)The official story of what happened here was that demons spawned a plague here that killed everyone but Daeran.  "Who were the people in the vision?" "Countess Silaena Arendae was Daeran's mother and one of the most beautiful women in the history of Mendev. She was an aasimar, just like her son. The old man is the esteemed cleric Nestrin, our Count's guardian and tutor. He was well known for his unfaltering faith and iron will. I was only passing acquaintances with him, so I can't tell you anything more than that. I didn't recognize the others, but Daeran told me that the first victims of the disease were his second cousin and the cousin's wife, hailing from the eastern border." "What now?" "I can sense the aftershocks of a very strong outburst of emotions and memories somewhere in the west wing of the house. Something must have happened in one of the rooms, so please check if anyone is in there and distract them if need be."If the PC is themselves an inquisitor as their dominant class, by the by, there's unique dialogue throughout this sidequest.  There's lots to loot in Daeran's house. This hat goes straight to Nenio.  To move forward, you need to gently caress with Daeran again.  "There's a bet that needs settling. I am absolutely confident that you won't be able to persuade Sosiel to draw a portrait of you... a nude portrait, that is." "That sounds like a fine idea. Our cleric will surely turn down a direct request, but... if I tell him that we can sell the portrait at a charity auction... Why have I never before thought of selling my nude portraits at a charity auction? It will cause a huge scandal, but it will also be for a good cause. This will give those god-botherers something to complain about! You've given me a brilliant idea!"Honestly, I'm kind of sad that Wrath defaults morality in this game to the most uptight paladin stereotypes. If this scene was playing out in almost any of my own tabletop/play-by-post DnD campaigns, someone in the party playing a paladin of Sharess or some such would take the opportunity to clown on Daeran with a 'beauty and sexuality are gifts meant to bring joy to people when shared maturely.'   Part of why Daeran falls flat for me as a character is how childish he comes across as to me. A bratty teenager being transgressive for the shock value, and everyone around him duly plays along with the outrage he's hoping to provoke rather than responding maturely and defusing his antics.   "Dae… my boy… How did you get here?" (The Countess's voice is fading.) "Don't come any closer, I… this disease..." "Mother, listen. The revered Nestrin has sealed the gates. He says that he won't let anyone leave the estate. If the plague reaches the larger settlements, nobody will be able to stop it. He claims this is why the demons attacked us in the first place: they knew that we would call upon the strongest clerics to heal us, and those clerics would catch the disease and die as well. The fat baron and his family tried to escape, but three armed paladins barred their way and said they would not let them go. Mother, we need help! Kenabres is full of clerics, wizards, and demons know who else. They might know how to stop it. We need to get there as soon as possible!" "We... must obey the revered Nestrin. We are the lords of Mendev and we must protect our people. If the plague… if it reaches Kenabres… thousands of innocent people will die." "I don't care about any 'innocents'!" (Daeran's voice rises to a shout.) "You're ill, Mother, you… you… you're dying! You must tell them to open the gates and take you to Kenabres. They won't listen to me, but you are the lady of the estate, they can't refuse you…"I think this will strike a lot of people differently now that we as a society have endured covid. It came up in my previous Warcraft series LP, too, that plots about lethal and contagious diseases, and the human responses, strike a lot of people now very differently than they did even a few years ago.  (Liotr wearily rubs his temples, but his face is unreadable.) "Now I have an answer to one of my many questions. Nobody went to Kenabres in search of help, because the revered Nestrin didn't let them. He valued the safety of the city more than the lives of his flock at the estate. What a difficult choice it must have been…" [Good] "All lives are equally valuable. How could he refuse to save them just because he thought some other people might suffer?" "The magnitude of potential disaster made him do so. Or perhaps it was a matter of his dignity. No one wants to be responsible for wiping out an entire city." (Liotr rubs his chin thoughtfully.) "I have never been in the revered Nestrin's position, but I know the price of difficult decisions. Especially those that you have to make quickly. I have no right to judge him. But we must continue our investigation. The next site I'd like to examine is the great hall. That is where we found the remains of Nestrin and the demons. I assume that he killed them in a confrontation, but we must make sure of that. Please help me clear the area so that I can study it."Of course, trolley problems feel different when literal magic is involved. And I loathe trolley problems with a passion.  Third time loving with Daeran is the charm in this quest.  "That rotter Sosiel refused to sketch me in the nude for charity, but it didn't upset me too much. The faces he made while I was explaining the idea to him were well worth it. He looked very much like a pious matron being confronted with a talking male organ, one that was two-foot long and being held aloft by a pair of golden angel wings. How are you enjoying my party? Are you having a good time?" "I'm making the most of it. How about you, Daeran? Are you having any fun?" "Of course I'm having fun!" (Daeran says defiantly.) "What's wrong? Do you want me to spend my whole life in fear and mourning, blaming myself for what happened? Fine, let's change the subject... I thought the unique ambience of Heaven's Edge and the fact that we're on the very border with the Worldwound would make this celebration special. I thought the past would resurface and make itself known." (Daeran smirks bitterly.) "Well, it seems even ghosts don't wish to attend my parties anymore. What can we do to liven up the evening?" "I think it's time for a drinking contest!" "Ah yes, the tried and trusted method for salvaging a dull party! For salvaging anything, actually! I am ready, but who's my competition? You, my dear, are not it. I have heard of your singing voice, and would just as soon not partake." "Barbarian. Lann shall be my champion!"No, I don't know why Lann (or Wenduag) is the correct choice here rather than, say, Seelah.  "Tell me, oh kid from the caves, should I tuck you into bed on your right side or your left? I wish to be fully prepared for when you inevitably collapse under the table. Let's drink until one of us falls unconscious or begs for mercy!"(beat) "That was just a warm-up, I say! Ready for more?" "Your surface swill just doesn't sit well with us mongrels. If only I had a single flask of cave mushroom liqueur!" "Had I known about the contest earlier, I'd have hired some rascals to pop down there and procure us some of your exotic libation." "I hope you're not serious! A single sip would turn your guts inside out!" "I've never seen the insides of my guts, but I'm sure they are as beautiful as the rest of me. Another round!" "I'm cheering for Daeran. Go on, Count, show us what you've got!" In retrospect, Lann being the proverbial drunken master sort of monk who had forcibly gone cold turkey after joining the party would explain an awful lot about his behavior. "Whoa! Are we done here, or are you ready for another round?" "Here comes the moment when my lizard leg tries to go one way and my human one another." "Neither one looks like it's fit to hold you up. Am I right? My grandfather... or maybe my great-grandmother put this bottle in the family cellar... And it proved loyal to the scion of the illustrious Arendaes! Ha! Why didn't I bet you'd lose? My kindness and generosity truly know no limits... (Daeran looks a bit unsteady on his feet.) "I don't feel very well. Hey, everyone! Let's go back outside. I, hic, need to get some fresh air in m'lungs!" Commander, was there a strategic reason for compelling this feat of unhinged debauchery? I needed him out of this hall. This quest also plays out somewhat differently if you've been flirting with Daeran, but Yua shut him down cold so that hasn't come up.   (The booming voice of an old man dressed in Iomedaean robes shakes the walls of the hall.) "Get away from him, demon! Let the boy go. By the blade of the Inheritor, you touch him only over my dead body." "You are pathetic, old cleric. Are you the guardian of this charming little prince? Well, you guarded him in vain! The disease is already circulating in his blood, and soon he will rot before your very eyes. You won't be able to help him, and I... I can at least make sure his death is beautiful, clean... and sweet." (The demoness turns her eyeless face to Daeran and licks her lips.) (A coarse laugh escapes the young man's throat.) "We'll see about that!" (Liotr turns toward you in astonishment. Droplets of sweat glisten on his temples.) "Something is wrong, Commander. My spells are not working as expected. It's as if some kind of a supernatural explosion occurred here ten years ago, blending everything together: the magical auras, the emotions, the memories... I will try again to read it." "Could it be dangerous?" "I cannot say for certain, but it is unlikely. The past is in the past, and no one can travel through time except for some uniquely powerful entities like aeons or perhaps the Eldest of the First World. Even though the past of this place is horrible, it poses no threat to us in the present." "Please continue." "Just give me a moment to focus. I will try to channel my visions and feelings to you as accurately as possible..."Kind of a shame that you can't bring up to Liotr that you've already encountered evidence of time travel, in the form of the aeon at Kenabres. Remember, the Storyteller realized that the stone knife the aeon left behind is from the future.   (Liotr's muscular shoulders suddenly begin to shake. The vision he is channeling does not change, but you feel something enormous and chilling silently infiltrate the reality around you... The presence of this nameless being becomes almost palpable.) "Some alien entity is talking to him. Hurry, old cleric, stop him right now! Do you really want to see what happens when..." "Save me. Can you save me?" (The presence thickens into something more tangible. The entity is silent, but you feel your blood pulsing in your temples, and each beat brings a new image — or rather, a new notion. "Help" brings a feeling of relief and safety. "Exchange" makes the pulse stronger, more demanding. "Gate" and "Secret" come immediately after. The images become heavier, almost visible. "Secret. Keep the secret. Otherwise — death. Death. Death. Death." The gruesome images whirl through your mind, filling it with pain and fear, and then it all starts again: "Help. Exchange. Secret. Death...") (Nestrin stretches out his shaking hand, suddenly looking like a doddering old man instead of a mighty cleric imbued with holy power.) "Daeran, wait! The thing you're about to let loose is even worse than these demons!" (Daeran's body is quivering like a taut bowstring. His eyes dart from the cleric to the demoness, who is frantically casting protective spells.) "Demons, saints... I'm so fed up with all of you. Burn!"Y'all, I do believe Daeran has a problem, and it may now be Yua's problem.   "Are you all right?" "The strain, the emotions, they overwhelmed me and made me faint like an agitated youngster. It is nothing, really. I will not be able to cast any spells for the rest of the day, but aside from that I'm fine." "Do you understand now what happened ten years ago?" (The inquisitor slowly exhales through clenched teeth and says in a low voice, still massaging his temples,) "Yes and no. drat it, my thoughts are astray... I will try to explain everything to you in full detail. Many living things are capable of performing the most extraordinary feats, good or bad, when a deadly threat looms over them. Ten years ago, the young Count found himself cornered in every sense of the word... and he allowed some alien entity to intercede for him. It frightens me that all my experience as an inquisitor is completely useless in this case. It does not resemble anything I've ever heard or read about. This entity... I think I will call it the Other... possesses uncanny power. It was capable of instantly killing three greater demons, a mighty cleric, and a host of other mortals. You saw everything yourself. What's even worse is that this entity, this Other... it is still here." (Liotr takes a long pause; his gaze is drawn to the chamber where all the guests are laughing and dancing. Daeran's eloquent voice rises above the music for a moment: he's asking someone to bring more wine and add more logs to the fire.) "I don't know what exactly this creature is, but I know what it did to the Count. It turned him into a living gateway. The Other is not inside the Count's body, it is not directly controlling his mind, that's why there are no obvious signs of possession. But it is... looking through his eyes. It treats him like a window into our world, and it can instantly step through it to wreak whatever havoc it desires." "Does Daeran know anything about this?"A staple of many fantasy settings, going back even to Tolkien, is that there are older and fouler things in existence beyond the current banner conflict between good and evil. The War of the Ring was a glorified skirmish in the wake of the real battle for good and evil in Middle-Earth, and it appears that Daeran has been dealing with something eldritch.  "What might the Other want?" "This is the strangest thing about it all. It came to this world ten years ago, and it's still here, right? All this time it has been watching us through the eyes of the Count. Had it, for instance, wanted to kill Her Majesty the Queen, it would have had plenty of opportunities to do so. The Count can get close to practically every influential figure in Mendev, but the Other refuses to act... or its interests lie in some other sphere." "Could the Other be the reason why my companions kept finding severed heads among their belongings back in Kenabres?" "It seems very likely. I am almost certain you are right. People tend to lose their heads when they get too close to Count Arendae anyway, ha... I do apologize, that was inappropriate. Perhaps your gruesome findings are the heads of some cultists who tried to kidnap the Count during the Kenabres slaughter? Or perhaps they provoked the Other in some other way?" "We have to do something about this." "Yes. Now I understand Father Nestrin perfectly: I must make a crucial decision despite a dearth of information... (The inquisitor falls silent for a while. Then he looks you right in the eye.) "Commander. First and foremost I must apologize to you. Second, I must ask you to keep this secret." "Why should I keep this a secret?" "As soon as the Count finds out that we know his secret, the Other will understand it as well. We do not know what it is and what exactly is the scope of its powers, but we do know that it would dispose of anyone who might reveal its existence. I've made a decision," (Liotr says gravely.) "I will not tell anyone about the discovery we've just made, not even the Queen or my superiors. Instead, I will immediately go to Nerosyan and sift through all the archives of the Inquisition in order to find out what exactly we are dealing with and how it can possibly be defeated. I may also make some cautious inquiries in other places, including Absalom. Still, I will not reveal the truth until I have found at least some reliable information. I am asking you to do the same. Specifically, do not say a single word about our investigation to the Count himself." "So you want me to lead the crusade while carrying a bomb that might explode at any moment?"So... yeah. Yua unwittingly invited the host for an extradimensional entity fond of chopping peoples' heads off into the party and into the crusade, and unless Yua feels like going head to head with something capable of slaughtering a demon on par with Minagho and a bunch of other people besides, trying to keep it unaware that Yua knows about it probably is in fact the safest course of action.  "Fine. I will keep it a secret." (Liotr lets out a sigh of relief.) "You've made the right choice. I recommend that you go back to the guests and spend the rest of the evening as you please. Anything else might raise suspicions. I must leave immediately in search of the knowledge we all need so desperately. Farewell, Commander! May the light of Iomedae guide your path, and Liotr Hawkblade will try to keep your path to triumph clear of any... unwanted guests." Another lovely day in the Fifth Crusade, presenting me with yet another crisis and potential adversary of which I knew frighteningly little. So I got drunk, flirted with Nenio and Seelah to no avail, ate entirely too much roast boar, and privately decided that all statements to effect of 'This can't get any worse' in the Fifth Crusade were hereby banned effective immediately.
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May 4, 2024 02:33
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I will wryly note that it's actually Galfrey's fault you now have to deal with this bomb, as Daeran was planning on leaving after Kenabres. Which of course wouldn't actually deal with his problem, but it probably wouldn't be YOUR problem given the Other doesn't actually seem to care whatsoever about the Worldwound conflict.Cythereal posted:
Lann's not the "correct" choice here. You get a trust point for rooting for Daeran in the drinking contest (or being the competitor yourself), the companion chosen doesn't matter and is entirely flavor. Also you don't remotely need every single trust point to get his best ending (if that is what one wishes to get), so singular ones like that are entirely skippable if you'd rather see the other result. Same with the previous choice - daring him to ask Seelah or Camilla to dance is just as successful as the Sosiel painting choice - and honestly I'd say Seelah's the "best" choice there from a text perspective, given the others just turn him down. Mainly just don't be a deliberate dick to him in the section and you'll get full points for Heaven's Edge perfectly fine.
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May 4, 2024 03:07
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Cythereal posted:So, fun fact I discovered while loving around with Crinukh and Toybox: he can't die, ever. If you come back to him as one of the evil paths you can try to kill him, but he mocks you and escapes through a portal in a cutscene while you just stand there like an idiot. This doesn’t surprise me. Probably a backer request. You can delay the Heaven’s Edge investigation until Act 3 if you want, I’m not sure what effect that has. Upsetting Daeran at any point during it (telling him to go write a report does this) can negatively affect his game ending, which is based on a hidden trust counter he has for you and the eventual outcome of his final side quest. You can flirt with him here or during the Gray Garrison assault if he’s in your party but things don’t get rolling on any romance until Act 3. Seelah will dance with Daeran, not sure about Camellia. Regil refuses a drinking contest- he’s present at the party but only observing it. Seelah beats him, and you can also if you pass some Constitution checks. Lann had a draw with him by my estimation, I’ve never used Wendaug. If you don’t want to spill wine on his shirt to get him to move inside, it is also possible to trigger the water elemental sprinkler system with a fire spell on a cart.
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May 4, 2024 03:36
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And this is the start of why I like Daeren. He's not generic evil, he's got some pretty interesting stuff going on. He's both an rear end in a top hat hedonist and a victim.
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May 4, 2024 04:31
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Mokinokaro posted:And this is the start of why I like Daeren. He's not generic evil, he's got some pretty interesting stuff going on. Also, the game really does let you dunk on him. Sending him to his room to write a book report on "How I Helped The Crusade on my Summer Vacation." Productive in making him a better person? No, but really funny.
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May 4, 2024 04:53
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To be absolutely clear, none of the choices you make at Heaven's Edge lock you into or out of one Daeran ending or another (ignoring anything romance-related). There's precisely one camp dialogue in the current chapter than can unlock his "best" ending, but other than that what ending you get is entirely based on choices made later in the game and his overall trust score. What Heaven's Edge does do is provide a fairly wild swing in trust depending on choices made (+15 to -20 points), but any single choice during it is irrelevant in terms of his overall plot. His response at the end (whether it was a great birthday or ruined) is simply a hint at how many points you've gained (or lost) total during it, not anything to do with his ultimate endings or a points swing in-and-of-itself - if you choose literally every single worst response during it but somehow still manage enough trust points throughout the rest of the game to get his better endings then those are what you'll still get. As a fun side note, the game does now allow you to do the very stupid thing you're warned against and actually legitimately tell Daeran that you now know his secret. This'll trap you into a battle against an enemy designed to be fought multiple chapters later, but it is theoretically winnable - though doing it this way right now flat out kills him even if you somehow win.
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May 4, 2024 05:10
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Cythereal posted:
So is there a specific response here if you're on Aeon?
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May 4, 2024 07:22
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BisbyWorl posted:So is there a specific response here if you're on Aeon? Not to my knowledge. I think you can do this quest in Act 3, but I didn't recruit Daeran in my aeon campaign. At least for the aeon PC, though, an aeon's ability to travel through time is pretty strictly limited to moments of what the aeon perceives as cosmic injustice, moments when something goes down that strikes aeon sensibilities as so horrifically unjust that the laws of the universe bend to allow an arbiter of justice to rewrite history, and it only happens a few times throughout the aeon story.
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May 4, 2024 12:29
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BisbyWorl posted:So is there a specific response here if you're on Aeon? For all we know this might be cosmically kosher, might not be good for any mortals involved but could be entirely legal cosmically.
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May 4, 2024 12:42
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Cythereal posted:Honestly, I'm kind of sad that Wrath defaults morality in this game to the most uptight paladin stereotypes. If this scene was playing out in almost any of my own tabletop/play-by-post DnD campaigns, someone in the party playing a paladin of Sharess or some such would take the opportunity to clown on Daeran with a 'beauty and sexuality are gifts meant to bring joy to people when shared maturely.' I love it when people remember the "Pal" in "Paladin"! Such a polarizing class when taken by so many players and DMs.
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May 4, 2024 12:45
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berryjon posted:I love it when people remember the "Pal" in "Paladin"! Such a polarizing class when taken by so many players and DMs. The longest-running paladin I ever played in a campaign started her career as a prostitute. Grew up an orphan in a city, fell into the world's oldest profession, then one night a client tried to murder her and while she was screaming and thrashing him with an iron candlestick holder she discovered he was an undead creature preying on the city's poor and she had been blessed by the [lawful good] goddess of death. She never forgot where she came from: rich and poor, noble and peasant, king and beggar, death comes for everyone equally and the same worms will eat your corpse. The number one thing I appreciate about getting Toybox to work for this game is that I now feel free to play a paladin in this game rather than scrounging up scrolls of atonement or feeling compelled to juggle Owlcat's ideas of law and good.
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May 4, 2024 13:00
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