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Klewer posted:The combo route thing sounds more like SAM or MNK. Yeah from the looks of it you have your left hand, right hand, and double blade attacks and you need to switch between them
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May 16, 2024 14:42
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I genuinely cannot see why hitting 1 - 1 - 1 is functionally any different than 1-2-3 other than feeling worse because hitting the same button is boring. It depends on the class, but current DRG is poo poo. Most of my RDM play is like 1-2-4-3-5-2-4-1-2-4 which is not all one button but has some RNG and variance going on. That's what makes it fun. Gunbreaker having just 1-2-3 into 4-5-4-5-4 at least is something other than the identical combos flowing endlessly. I also just like having as few bindings as I can get away with in any MMO when I'm in a "I don't want to think" mode, but I also want buttons that have some element of choice and decisions when I'm interested in challenge. Long uncompressed combos is hotbar bloat for the guy who doesn't want to think and isn't exciting to the guy who wants to make decisions. Reaper has enough stuff going on that compressing the 1-2-3 combo into one button certainly isn't just mashing one key over and over again.
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May 16, 2024 14:43
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Feldegast42 posted:Granted I'm not watching this but with the descriptions so far viper sounds almost exactly the same as reaper It looks nothing like reaper. It's some weird free-formish combo system with 2 buffs and a debuff to maintain that looks to primarily operate at a 2 second gcd. Definitely more frequent ogcd's as well. Craptacular! posted:Reaper has enough stuff going on that compressing the 1-2-3 combo into one button certainly isn't just mashing one key over and over again. You picked the one melee dps job where that would be the case actually. Reaper has barely anything going on, it is the most small-brained melee dps job that additionally has the lowest APM out of the role. There are, in fact, long strings of doing nothing but hitting 123 as a reaper that would be way worse if it was just 1 over and over. Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 14:48 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 14:44
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So if we're talking about cognitive load, I think what might be happening is that there's a tension where some players prefer a higher cognitive load in their job rotation, while others prefer to lessen that part so that fight mechanics can be more complex (and therefore that's where the heavier part of the cognitive load lies). I think it's safe to assume that Dawntrail will continue the trend of increasing the complexity of high-end PvE content, but at the same time, there's likely a limit to the level of cognitive load that is fun for most players. They're probably trying to balance that. I'm not trying to say whether that's the right direction or not. I know why people prefer to have more complex jobs, because it makes the experience of playing different jobs much more distinct, and I can absolutely see the argument there and I think it makes sense. That, and since I don't really do savage/ultimates myself none of this is really a huge concern for me either way, so that's why I don't have a strong opinion. But I still think it's an interesting disagreement and I don't think anyone's necessarily off-base, it's just a tough needle for a mature MMO to thread.
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May 16, 2024 14:45
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Craptacular! posted:It depends on the class, but current DRG is poo poo. Most of my RDM play is like 1-2-4-3-5-2-4-1-2-4 which is not all one button but has some RNG and variance going on. That's what makes it fun. Gunbreaker having just 1-2-3 into 4-5-4-5-4 at least is something other than the identical combos flowing endlessly. DRG's entire thing is the long gcd rotation with you then having the actual resource building and spending part of the jobs being on the ogcds.
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May 16, 2024 14:46
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I generally prefer 1-2-3 to 1-1-1 because it's easier to keep track of my oGCD rotation based on where they are in relation to different GCD buttons as compared to having to count a single button.
Ibblebibble fucked around with this message at 14:49 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 14:46
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Craptacular! posted:It depends on the class, but current DRG is poo poo. Most of my RDM play is like 1-2-4-3-5-2-4-1-2-4 which is not all one button but has some RNG and variance going on. That's what makes it fun. Gunbreaker having just 1-2-3 into 4-5-4-5-4 at least is something other than the identical combos flowing endlessly. Well, I appreciate you expanding on why you feel that way even if I disagree. But as stated earlier, having to remember where/what your buttons are while doing mechanics is a core design element by the devs so it's why I just cannot see it ever going away to that level.
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May 16, 2024 14:46
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Ibram Gaunt posted:having to remember where/what your buttons are while doing mechanics is a core design element by the devs I've disagreed with this pretty much every time anyone has ever said it, so you're not going to convince me, but have a nice day anyhow. e: To put it another way, look at how much stuff in this expansion from fanta behavior to raid planning in-game is being done to level the field with what is possible on PC.
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May 16, 2024 14:48
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Craptacular! posted:I've disagreed with this pretty much every time anyone has ever said it, so you're not going to convince me, but have a nice day anyhow. Yeah you can disagree with the sky being blue too
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May 16, 2024 14:49
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johnny park posted:They loving removed Huton!!!! God loving damnit!!!!!!!!! Huton the ability still exists, it’s just an AOE that grants Hide to probably interact with something else Huton’s haste is now a trait instead Armor Crush, instead of refreshing Huton haste, now interacts with an entirely new job gauge (likely related to Nin’s new Wolverine-looking attack)
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May 16, 2024 14:51
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Dr Pepper posted:Yeah you can disagree with the sky being blue too I mean this is one of the few places I've seen online where I can have an opinion that doesn't call out anyone or quote anybody's post excerpt and get bodied by three people wanting to say that theirs is the true and right one.
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May 16, 2024 14:52
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Dr Pepper posted:Yeah you can disagree with the sky being blue too Freak behavior. Please be normal. Like crap is wrong imo but this is silly.. Wait Craptacular are you even playing this game anymore? I've seen you on other threads saying you've stopped like forever ago ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 14:56 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 14:52
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johnny park posted:They loving removed Huton!!!! God loving damnit!!!!!!!!! They made it passive, changed the ninjutsu to an AoE Suiton and gave NIN something else that's more impactful to manage, but didn't talk much about it. All around seems like a much better situation to be in?
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May 16, 2024 14:52
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The button combo thing, whatever it ends up being' is explicitly optional anyway so everyone can be happy
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May 16, 2024 14:54
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Wait Craptacular are you even playing this game anymore? I've seen you on other threads saying you've stopped like forever ago I still stick around for my house, and got Endwalker in the -60% sale the other month. I just had no interest in the story after Shadowbringers and the endgame discourse was, uh, pretty awful between 2 minute meta stuff, lack of midcore, and the balancing issues. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 14:57
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They might get rid of SMN raise for 8.0, huh
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May 16, 2024 14:57
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Man why do they even have these job gauges if they're removing any management of the gauge. If you overcapped when hitting the button that's your fault.
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May 16, 2024 14:59
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Oh, I'm not sure I'm a fan of SMN going Solar Bahamut > Bahamut > Solar Bahamut > Phoenix. I'd much rather just a third set if they didn't want to just upgrade base Bahamut. I do like the idea that Solar Bahamut is a more correct version of how he really was, and not the Allagan/Ascian corrupted primal.
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May 16, 2024 14:59
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I genuinely cannot see why hitting 1 - 1 - 1 is functionally any different than 1-2-3 other than feeling worse because hitting the same button is boring. because I only have so many keybinds, and conceivably, there is effectively a hard limit of how many separate actions a job can have due to controllers. I'd rather have unique abilities or utility spells then just rote 1-2-3. Like, I think stuff where you do like "1-2-3, 1-2-4" is a bit more interesting. But for example RDM melee combo feels so pointless in being a 1-2-3 because there's no reason to ever do it any other order. Weaving oGCDs by comparison is more interesting, because even if there's a correct order to weave them, it at least feels like it's okay to not be perfect and so they feel more natural as separate abilities and slots rather then auto replace.
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May 16, 2024 15:00
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If you really want then there are crime plugins that reduce most dps jobs to whatever button count you feel is appropriate. There are people who play 1 button machinist with a perfect dps rotation out there. This seems incredibly boring but no skin off my back I suppose.
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May 16, 2024 15:00
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Craptacular! posted:I mean this is one of the few places I've seen online where I can have an opinion that doesn't call out anyone or quote anybody's post excerpt and get bodied by three people wanting to say that theirs is the true and right one. I think you're misunderstanding something. I brought up what the devs have said...Because it doesn't matter what any of us think, if the devs believe that to be part of the games DNA, disagreeing with it doesn't make it not factual. They won't make things into autocombo because that is the design ethos behind how they design things in this game. You can disagree with it all you want.
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May 16, 2024 15:00
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Arist posted:They might get rid of SMN raise for 8.0, huh Every sprout who wants to try lv50 raiding synced down needs drat good healers. Ibram Gaunt posted:I brought up what the devs have said... I'm pretty sure you and everyone else is saying your opinion and nothing has ever been said about this issue in years. Regardless, debates persist. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 15:03 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 15:01
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I am absolutely stunned by how great Pictomancer's animations look. I was expecting them to look cool but they wildly exceeded my expectations
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May 16, 2024 15:02
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I think you're misunderstanding something. I brought up what the devs have said...Because it doesn't matter what any of us think, if the devs believe that to be part of the games DNA, disagreeing with it doesn't make it not factual. They won't make things into autocombo because that is the design ethos behind how they design things in this game. You can disagree with it all you want. On the other hand, we just watched viper and it's got the autocombo action going on so who can really say what the other jobs are like now.
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May 16, 2024 15:03
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Craptacular! posted:I'm pretty sure you and everyone else is saying your opinion and nothing has ever been said about this issue in years. They did explicitly say that during a past Live Letter, though.
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May 16, 2024 15:03
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Craptacular! posted:I'm pretty sure you and everyone else is saying your opinion and nothing has ever been said about this issue in years. Regardless, debates persist. ???????
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May 16, 2024 15:04
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Failboattootoot posted:On the other hand, we just watched viper and it's got the autocombo action going on so who can really say what the other jobs are like now. Viper also has 3 different combos.
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May 16, 2024 15:05
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Picto granting group buffs, it's so over selfishdpsbros....
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May 16, 2024 15:05
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Let's pull it back a bit, huh? Don't know why this is the issue that tends to get people the most heated.
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May 16, 2024 15:06
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Craptacular! posted:e: We never got a confirmation that Dragon Sight is dead. gently caress. Dragon Sight is the sole reason I stopped maining DRG when Stormblood came out. I hate having to rely on macros so much!!
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May 16, 2024 15:07
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Craptacular! posted:I'm pretty sure you and everyone else is saying your opinion and nothing has ever been said about this issue in years. Regardless, debates persist. Nah, YoshiP himself has explicitly said in the past that the 1-2-3 combos having separate buttons is due to them wanting the cognitive load that hitting them in the correct order adds. They may have changed their mind in the time since, or feel that they can add it in other places, but it is something directly confirmed by YoshiP.
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May 16, 2024 15:07
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Craptacular! posted:Every sprout who wants to try lv50 raiding synced down needs drat good healers. The devs said this directly into a camera last year. You're being weird. Stop.
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May 16, 2024 15:07
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I am at work and can't watch now. Can anyone provide a rundown on how Picto works?
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May 16, 2024 15:07
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ImpAtom posted:I am at work and can't watch now. Can anyone provide a rundown on how Picto works? we're still finding out it seems like mvc3 phoenix wright, kinda?
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May 16, 2024 15:08
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Ibblebibble posted:They did explicitly say that during a past Live Letter, though. They also say that people like their housing implementation. If they're listening to the playerbase like they claim they know this is something some people (and not everyone) wants. As ImpAtom said earlier, whatever it is it's wonderfully optional so nobody is taking your desired control scheme away. e: Is Picto hud a slot machine?
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May 16, 2024 15:08
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ImpAtom posted:I am at work and can't watch now. Can anyone provide a rundown on how Picto works? They haven't gotten into it yet, they're just starting the demo. Pict also has the autocombo thing going it seems.
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May 16, 2024 15:08
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Failboattootoot posted:On the other hand, we just watched viper and it's got the autocombo action going on so who can really say what the other jobs are like now. The impression I got is that VPR has SAM-style splitting combo lines, but splitting on every attack and not just the 2nd. So it's not exactly a condensed 123 combo as much as a measure to prevent a button explosion of 6+ different combo finishers each used in a single line. For instance 122 and 132 -- or whatever they were on yoship's bars -- both seemed to be valid combos, but they ended on different attacks. I might well have misread the mechanics. I didn't pay super close attention to the exact icons everything got but they frequently seemed to be different for the same key.
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May 16, 2024 15:11
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Oh I like the Picto spell names. "Thunder in Magenta", "Comet in Black"
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May 16, 2024 15:13
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You cannot have PVP style auto combo be a baseline thing, even optionally because you then have to balance raids around there being significently less cognitive load on rotation, which means people who don't want to use it are punished with a much harder game as mechanics need to become more and more complex to compensate. It's like how WoW raids are designed around everyone using DBM (which is bad but you can never put the genie back in the bottle) I think it's good to combine redundant buttons like Arcane Circle - > whatever the damage ability is called though.
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May 16, 2024 15:13
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Failboattootoot posted:On the other hand, we just watched viper and it's got the autocombo action going on so who can really say what the other jobs are like now. They did specifically mention "lots of actions but condensed buttons" as a feature of Viper so it might go further in that direction than most other jobs, for now.
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May 16, 2024 15:14
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