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I think anyone that thinks anyone else is better off in a cult where everyone around them punishes, mocks and belittles them simply for thinking for themselves might benefit from taking a long hard look at their own latent authoritarian sympathies
Minotaurus Rex fucked around with this message at 19:41 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 19:38
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But they're not drinking
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May 14, 2024 19:47
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People who are sufficiently motivated will stop drinking regardless of external circumstances. No cult required, in fact it makes it far more likely (though not guaranteed) they will fail as it’s incredibly, and deliberately, demotivating
Minotaurus Rex fucked around with this message at 19:56 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 19:53
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having some help is great. not the kind of help that teaches you you're weak and worthless and will never do anything but relapse, though.
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May 14, 2024 19:56
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Mulaney Power Move posted:But they're not drinking No but why not find the cause of why they drink? Just because you do what the higher power says doesn't mean you're happy.
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May 14, 2024 20:08
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Minotaurus Rex posted:It’s a bit like a court ordering you to a bunch of Scientology auditing for your mental health issues. It shouldn’t be done, it doesn’t help and it isn’t ‘better than nothing’ - it’s associated with far worse outcomes than literally doing nothing. Well I think AA is BS but admittedly it's pretty well calibrated to hardcore alcoholics like its founder; He begged for alcohol on his deathbed whatever his name was. I think it's seriously hosed up to funnel people into a support group for like the top 95% of alcoholics but I'd bet it would score better limited to that group. Most of the people who have been in an AA meeting are probably not this kind of drunk but AA peeps can't imagine anyone being any other way. This is why they hate people who just show up for their probation period and they say things like "I thought I was fine too and then I hit rock bottom, they gotta hit rock bottom before they get better". AA is just not for these people, they're not going to hit rock bottom, they're gonna crush six packs until they get into model planes, have a kid, go back to the gym, etc. But you ask the AA regulars about these guys and they have total disdain "He played the judge and went out to the bar as soon as he was off probation!". Like yo he went to your meetings, didn't drink, and got off probation and then started drinking and calling a cab. It's the AA regulars who did the same thing, showing up to meetings to "play the judge" except they keep drinking, violated probation, wrecked their whole lives and then start taking AA seriously and get sober. Seething at people who they think got away with it. Bonzo posted:No but why not find the cause of why they drink? I don't think there is a problem to fix. AA types might have problems that contribute but I think it's mostly genetic. So like a normal problem drinker hates his job and had an abusive childhood or whatever so they're getting wasted. AA types, from my observation, loving love the poo poo out of alcohol and it feels super-amazing. Then they do things while they're drunk that make them unhappy by wrecking their lives and then the alcohol destabilizes their mood. So like they'll get too drunk to go to work and then stay at home literally sobbing cleaning their pistol. Which would make lesser problem drinkers stop drinking but these guys just can't quit and they hate themselves for it. Internet Old One fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 20:15
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Internet Old One posted:Well I think AA is BS but admittedly it's pretty well calibrated to hardcore alcoholics like its founder; He begged for alcohol on his deathbed whatever his name was. I think it's seriously hosed up to funnel people into a support group for like the top 95% of alcoholics but I'd bet it would score better limited to that group. The fact that Bill Wilson was begging for booze on his deathbed is proof positive that he didn't have the "psychic change" he claimed he had that made him not want booze. Also, he died from smoking, bit strange for the man who invented (stole from the Oxford Group) the magical 12 steps that are the answer to every addiction Internet Old One posted:
This bit is a No True Scotsman fallacy. Everyone that leaves and quits never was an alcoholic anyway! Everyone that stays and painfully lives a cult approved life one day at a time but doesn't drink is, by definition, a true alcoholic. I put it to you that it's being ground down by the cult that transforms people into the "true alcoholic" that stays Internet Old One posted:It's the AA regulars who did the same thing, showing up to meetings to "play the judge" except they keep drinking, violated probation, wrecked their whole lives and then start taking AA seriously and get sober. Seething at people who they think got away with it. They got sober because they became sufficiently motivated to quit drinking. AA then swooped in and took the credit (and also bullies them into thinking if they leave they'll die, go insane, etc). Interesting how all the people it fails are due to personal failings rather than AA though. Internet Old One posted:AA types might have problems that contribute but I think it's mostly genetic. So like a normal problem drinker hates his job and had an abusive childhood or whatever so they're getting wasted. AA types, from my observation, loving love the poo poo out of alcohol and it feels super-amazing. Then they do things while they're drunk that make them unhappy by wrecking their lives and then the alcohol destabilizes their mood. So they're genetically predestined to drink but those genes can somehow be turned off by confessing their sins, surrendering to a bastardised version of the Christian god and then continually recruiting new members to a cult? Hmm, sounds scientific as gently caress Internet Old One posted:So like they'll get too drunk to go to work and then stay at home literally sobbing cleaning their pistol. Which would make lesser problem drinkers stop drinking but these guys just can't quit and they hate themselves for it. Just can't quit.. Until they quit? Also the person in this example needs a job that doesn't make them want to kill themselves and some urgent mental health care, not membership of a cult Minotaurus Rex fucked around with this message at 21:29 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 20:37
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Also I'm getting tired of hearing variations of "this quack therapy is only for people who reaaally need it". No dude, the people who need the most help actually need harmful stuff that doesn't work the least. Goddamn.
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May 14, 2024 20:54
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Ah yes. "Ads don't work on me." But instead you're saying ads don't work on anyone and everyone only drinks because they are a kid and have mental problems. Only toy ads work on me. Whenever a new G.I.Joe or He-Man comes out you better believe I’m nagging my mommy until she buys it for me. Internet Old One posted:Absinthe owns because you get to play with it and all it's fun accessories and it's the right amount of alcohol and gnarly flavors that you are perfectly happy to call it quits after one. Yeah I would do that for the first glass, and then drink the rest directly out of the bottle. I’ve seen the ouzo effect already, that’s enough, it can form an emulsion in my stomach, I trust it. Nigmaetcetera fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 21:52
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The actual lack of earnest discussion in AA meetings is pretty disconcerting. There are usually self established "leaders" who drive the narrative and with zero oversight. I was trying to have an open discussion about how I felt it necessary to drink casually because of career progression. In my industry its fairly common to entertain clients over dinner and drinks. Whilst you can absolutely be a teetotaler, people who drink will get more facetime with directors and clients, win more work, and progress quicker. Obviously this can be a slippery slope but a dogmatic total abstinence approach wouldve been career suicide. The advice from the oldntimer lording over this particular meeting was "change careers, quit your job, or die". Like LOL mate you live in loving SRO housing and know negative dick about my life, career, or aspirations. This dude just hated my success and was encouraging me to dismantle one of the more positive aspects of my life, or literally kill myself. And, there was no room to actually talk about moderation or boundary setting with work (which wouldve been productive). Literal cult behaviour, to encourage people to walk away from anything that doesnt progress the group narrative. Guy was just a miserable little pile of secrets and wanted to drag others down so he could maintain his role of advisor in a room of vulnerable people looking to establish healthier habits. Poohs Packin fucked around with this message at 23:44 on May 14, 2024 |
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May 14, 2024 22:46
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I went to some tech conference in 1999 when things were stupid with money and every event was full open bar, even breakfast. The Sales guy showed me how he'd order a vodka tonic to start the night, then tip the bartender to keep giving him tonic and lime in the same style glass. Now when he meets with directors or perspective client they think he's been drinking all night and cut loose. He however had the advantage because he's sober and dealing with drunks so it's really easy to get them to book appointments or give up insider info. He said he was shown this trick by another female sales person who did this to make sure no one tried to take advantage but she also looked like one of the boys. Bonzo fucked around with this message at 00:16 on May 15, 2024 |
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May 15, 2024 00:13
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Bonzo posted:No but why not find the cause of why they drink? You won't find a whole lot of happy people at an AA meeting.
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May 15, 2024 00:22
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I liked what I saw of SMART
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May 15, 2024 00:28
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SMART is cool.
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May 15, 2024 00:49
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I have a relative who worked in psychiatric healthcare and dealt with an alcoholic patient. The patient was adamant that their behavior was completely normal, even pointed at the water bottle a staff member was holding and said "don't act like that's not filled with vodka." Sad myths 
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May 15, 2024 01:05
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Bonzo posted:I went to some tech conference in 1999 when things were stupid with money and every event was full open bar, even breakfast. The Sales guy showed me how he'd order a vodka tonic to start the night, then tip the bartender to keep giving him tonic and lime in the same style glass. Now when he meets with directors or perspective client they think he's been drinking all night and cut loose. He however had the advantage because he's sober and dealing with drunks so it's really easy to get them to book appointments or give up insider info. Its totally reasonable to just have a couple and not "cut loose" without all the subterfuge, as well. But yeah the story just kind of confirms the link between alcohol and business being real. Also that the old timer who said I needed to abandon my career was full of poo poo.
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May 15, 2024 01:11
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Being an alcoholic in Akita was a lot more fun than being an alcoholic in New Brunswick.
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May 15, 2024 02:27
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I had a company director who pulled the mocktails thing at employee appreciation events. He brought us all on a snorkeling trip in far north queensland and the first night plopped a $300 bottle of japanese whisky on the table. Guy would just watch his employees get wrecked around him. Then, weeks later he'd rib you for stuff you said whilst drunk because he was completely lucid through all of it. Weird guy, has a hard time retaining good people because of dumb mind games like that. Snorkeling trip was awesome, though. Saw the great barrier reef up close.
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May 15, 2024 02:46
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That same company (startup) I mentioned in 1999, the CEO was 23 years old and a total wreck. He would have what he called Thousand Dollar Nights where he'd take 10 of us to some strip club on a Tuesday night, put $1000 cash on the table and proclaim, "No one leaves until we spend $1000". Then he started doing this twice a week, then three. The other C suites stepped in and told him that we can't function as business with half the staff hungover. The other company officers bought him out 6 months later.
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May 15, 2024 03:13
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Haha so he bought everyone three drinks?
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May 15, 2024 03:22
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Nevermind 1999 thats a pretty decent spend.
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May 15, 2024 03:25
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AcidCat posted:Looks like liquid Ricola, very medicinal vibe. I'd try it. a very accurate guess, i must say. couldnt have described it any better. I recommend it on the rocks though, its well suited for nobly sipping.
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May 15, 2024 14:21
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Poohs Packin posted:Nevermind 1999 thats a pretty decent spend. In 1999 at strip clubs near me (Niagara Falls Ont.) beer was 5-6 bucks a bottle. Pitchers were 15-20, lap dances were 20, and Table dances were 10.
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May 15, 2024 17:20
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beer before lunch, yeah thanks a bunch! liquor for dinner, you're my kinda sinner!
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May 15, 2024 17:27
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wesleywillis posted:In 1999 at strip clubs near me (Niagara Falls Ont.) beer was 5-6 bucks a bottle. Pitchers were 15-20, lap dances were 20, and Table dances were 10. This was some place in Louisville. There was a law at the time that forbid alcohol if the strippers are fully nude. So you're drinking $2 water down Cokes while girls go around trying to you to buy them $25 watered down cokes. $20 couch dances, 10 for table, and a dollar dance. The dollar dance was a sign the club was having a bad night. The DJ would play a song and all during the song if you gave a stripper $1, she'd grind on you until the DJ said to switch. Then you'd give $1 to one of the other girls and so forth. A sampler if you will. A sad, sad sampler. Another strip club was mobbed up and would skirt the alcohol rules all the time. It ran like an actual bar but instead of a band on stage it was strippers and fully nude. From time to time undercover cops would come in and bust them for having fully nude dancers and alcohol. To solve this, they put up a new neon beer sign over the bar. If the sign was off, no cops in the place and the bottoms come off. Sign is on? There's a cop here or rumours of a bust so bikini stays on.
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May 15, 2024 17:44
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Although I've heard of it and seen it parodied, the idea of having to get drunk to prove yourself or hang out at a strip club to advance in a corporation seems so loving weird, like what kind of businesses are these? Even when I did drink I'd get pissed if someone tried to pressure me to drink. Like I will physically fight you if you think you can make me drink.
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May 15, 2024 18:17
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Mulaney Power Move posted:Although I've heard of it and seen it parodied, the idea of having to get drunk to prove yourself or hang out at a strip club to advance in a corporation seems so loving weird, like what kind of businesses are these? my last boss at the drug factory i worked at told me a story about the good ol' days of the late 90's where he went to TD's for lunch (a strip club down the street from that chemo drug factory to this day) with a bunch of dudes, got drunk and then decided to go home and call his boss and tell him he just wasn't gonna do another 6 in the cleanroom today. i asked him what he'd do if i did that and told me, "fire you," and we both started laughing in different ways.
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May 15, 2024 18:22
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Alcohol doesn't fully "boil away" when you cook with it, so keep that in mind when you're deglazing something.
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May 15, 2024 18:26
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I remember my first semester of college I thought about joining a fraternity but then I realized how much I hated drinking games because the idea of someone telling me to drink made me irrationally angry. It was a weird mentality of "look motherfucker, trust me I can drink, I don't need YOU to tell me to drink"
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May 15, 2024 18:29
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Mulaney Power Move posted:I remember my first semester of college I thought about joining a fraternity but then I realized how much I hated drinking games because the idea of someone telling me to drink made me irrationally angry. It was a weird mentality of "look motherfucker, trust me I can drink, I don't need YOU to tell me to drink" I remember one fun drinking game that was actually a prank to pull on newbies. Give them a sheet of paper, a quarter, and a sharpened pencil. They put the quarter on the paper and use the pencil to trace the quarter real close and tight to make a circle on the paper. Then the challenge is to roll the quarter off the top of your forehead and nose and try to make it land at least touching the circle. If you manage it, you get to pick someone to drink, if you miss then you have to drink. The joke though was that tracing the quarter would leave lead on the edges. When you rolled it off your face it would leave a nice, neat black line down your face. And they'd be oblivious that they had a pencil line down the center of their face. People running the joke would quickly palm the quarter and wipe it off before rolling for their turn. So now there is one stupid newbie walking around the party with a line down their face; until they came across a mirror.
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May 15, 2024 20:06
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I only skim read the thread to pick up tips for a good weekend, I think I got the gist but just to check: Grain alcohol in a dumpster seemed like the thread's goto. I'll fact check this for you, let's get this myth busted.
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May 17, 2024 17:03
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Wendigee posted:Believe it or not it's more difficult to get shrooms than alcohol almost anywhere. you can literally order them by mail
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May 17, 2024 17:18
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They’re also trivially easy to grow yourself.
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May 17, 2024 17:29
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theyre also that!
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May 17, 2024 17:29
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shrooms: the greatest drug on earth
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May 17, 2024 17:30
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Mulaney Power Move posted:Although I've heard of it and seen it parodied, the idea of having to get drunk to prove yourself or hang out at a strip club to advance in a corporation seems so loving weird, like what kind of businesses are these? My big break in life was working at a startup with people from a bunch of famous companies and getting trashed with them and then having like a 4 year period where I worked closely with every new employee and got trashed with them. Tuesday until 3am, Monday afternoon at the kickoff celebration, late friday crammed into my managers office... and the lovely christmas parties where people did managed to get fired while blacked out. Now all the old heads are C levels at companies in every tech hub and the entry level employees are all managers at different companies. Mostly concentrated in a few sectors but not all. People just message me asking what I'm up to and if I want a new job. I barely drink these days I never actually see these people and end up working remote. 
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May 17, 2024 18:26
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I've only touched alcohol twice this year, and it makes me feel like I'm missing out on so much on life. I've probably drank more non-alcoholic wine/beer than alcoholic drinks. WTF is wrong with me?
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May 17, 2024 18:28
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Nonalcoholic beer is friggin great these days (try Sober Carpenter if you see it) and man I have missed out on negative life from not drinking by dint of not being crushingly hungover 2/3 of the time. Hard to feel like I'm missing out on anything when I feel good. Of course all the weed doesn't hurt either.
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May 17, 2024 18:32
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Mozi posted:Nonalcoholic beer is friggin great these days (try Sober Carpenter if you see it) and man I have missed out on negative life from not drinking by dint of not being crushingly hungover 2/3 of the time. Odouls loving ruined NA beer in this country man! I've been a big non alcoholic guy for a few decades now and there are some really good ones out there. I like a few real beers to get things kicked off and then I'll crush a sixer of NA. Feels like I'm 25 having a drinking session except for the part where I eat an entire hot and ready pizza and barf it all over in the morning.
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May 17, 2024 18:40
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carbunclemitts posted:I've only touched alcohol twice this year, and it makes me feel like I'm missing out on so much on life. I've probably drank more non-alcoholic wine/beer than alcoholic drinks. WTF is wrong with me? You’re free from the clutches of the succubus, be happy!
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May 17, 2024 18:52
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