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A great person who never stopped thinking, and writing. She will be missed.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:13
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:It'd be an interesting contrast anyway, I haven't gotten around to reading Banks yet but the gist I get is very much white man's burden while Le Guin would object strongly to just about anything you could call "uplifting". Like, Hain gives everyone spaceships but they're so hands-off on pushing their own culture that IIRC nobody in the novels really knows much about them except they're technologically advanced, used to be way more so, and tend to view their era of grandiose imperial expansionism as kinda embarrassing and regrettable. They're trying to make a confederation of equals, not mold humanity into copies of their enlightened selves.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:15
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phasmid posted:That's a good point. It might, however, be my own poor choice of words. Banks uses more gunplay and space-opera kinda stuff, but the political outlook of his humans could be technically called anarchic, "live and let live" etc. Though they are conscious of being "better" than other people, it's presented as a fault of theirs. They're not wicked, but they are snobby. Again I'm operating from secondhand info instead of reading the dang books but my understanding is that Player of Games, the one people specifically keep recommending as the way to get into Banks, is about his live-and-let-live anarchic culture sending a provocateur to destabilize a nation they consider backwards and prep it for colonization by the empire. Which, again, interesting clash of values and assumptions about people with Left Hand A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 17:20
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I always wondered what a scrotum would look like with a toupee.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:33
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Again I'm operating from secondhand info instead of reading the dang books but my understanding is that Player of Games, the one people specifically keep recommending as the way to get into Banks, is about his live-and-let-live anarchic culture sending a provocateur to destabilize a nation they consider backwards and prep it for colonization by the empire. Which, again, interesting clash of values and assumptions about people with Left Hand Zakalwe was right.
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Jan 24, 2018 17:41
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viral spiral posted:who?
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Jan 24, 2018 17:56
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mike jones
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Jan 24, 2018 17:59
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NoOOOOOOOoo.  i really liked the few books i read of her. maybe ill go to a library and check out some more of her stuff. sometimes i consider naming my children after the characters in Dispossessed.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:08
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RIP, loved her books. A great writer of the same caliber as Clarke, Asimov, the Strugatskis etc.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:09
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The Big Word posted:
Me too. quote:Those whom heaven helps we call the sons of heaven. They do not learn this by learning. They do not work it by working. They do not reason it by using reason. To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment. Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven. — Chuang Tse: XXIII (3.0)
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Jan 24, 2018 18:11
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Mammal Sauce posted:I always wondered what a scrotum would look like with a toupee. Then u should turn your monitor off, jackass
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Jan 24, 2018 18:39
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Dyna Soar posted:RIP, loved her books. A great writer of the same caliber as Clarke, Asimov, the Strugatskis etc. Uh she was actually insanely better than any of those because in addition to having as many good ideas etc. she was a much better "pure" writer. She loved language. They just used it.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:40
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cda posted:Uh she was actually insanely better than any of those because in addition to having as many good ideas etc. she was a much better "pure" writer. She loved language. They just used it. You have a point (greatly exaggarated, but still). Then again I think P.K. Dick is one the greatest scifi writer despite his prose ranging from honestly great to lackluster to laughable. Ballard, Le Guin and Atwood are the masters of soft scifi for sure.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:44
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Dyna Soar posted:
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Jan 24, 2018 18:47
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cda posted:Bradbury Sure, but was he really soft though? Nitpicking I know, I love Bradbury and would put him up there with the rest I've mentioned.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:49
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if you're using soft vs. hard in the usual sci-fi sense of some technology is just magic whatever vs. aspergatingly rigorous adherence to scientific theory as though one were really designing an interstellar rocketship, he's definitely the former yeahThe Big Word posted:I figure that Banks' take on his own fictional civilisation was that it would be 100% amazingly completely awesome and perfect forever to be a Culture citizen but its relations with other civs/species are indefensible neoliberal bullshit and the difficulty in resolving those two angles is what makes the setting as compelling as it is. yeah that sounds about right. Space First World.
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Jan 24, 2018 18:54
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partly like that, but i've always thought it more as soft = studies the effects of technological advancement and/or advances social sciences in humanity and hard = studies the effects of technological advancement on humanity but with also focus on just technological advancement itself. so like, ballard and atwood ans le guin (and orwell and a bunch of others) are more interested in humanity than technology, where as bradbury kinda leans more on technology and its effects in humanity. does this make sense? Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jan 24, 2018 |
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Jan 24, 2018 18:57
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Kinda, yeah. He's definitely got a much, much shallower read on sociology than Le Guin or Atwood, and is more of the pulpy Space Adventures school like Clarke/Anderson/Bester/Heinlein. I haven't read that much Ballard I'd probably put Meiville up there as the heir of Le Guin and Atwood, if only just for Embassytown
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Jan 24, 2018 19:03
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Makes sense but the reason I'm putting Bradbury in there is as much because like Le Guin and Atwood, he's a really excellent prose stylist. I'm trying to think of other SF authors who are as good, sentence for sentence, word for word, than those three. Not coincidentally, they all write/wrote extensively in other genres as well. The prose in so much SF is workmanlike or trying way too hard. Workmanlike is totally fine and there are lots of great SF stories that are just ok from the writing perspective, but in this thread about Le Guin I think it's worth pointing out that everything she wrote was beautifully written, even her later stuff which gets awfully preachy.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:11
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cda posted:Makes sense but the reason I'm putting Bradbury in there is as much because like Le Guin and Atwood, he's a really excellent prose stylist. I'm trying to think of other SF authors who are as good, sentence for sentence, word for word, than those three. Not coincidentally, they all write/wrote extensively in other genres as well. The prose in so much SF is workmanlike or trying way too hard. Workmanlike is totally fine and there are lots of great SF stories that are just ok from the writing perspective, but in this thread about Le Guin I think it's worth pointing out that everything she wrote was beautifully written, even her later stuff which gets awfully preachy. I agree with you, those three are all great and Le Guin def. deserves to get remember as a great author, not just a great genre author. I don't know if you're familiar with J.G. Ballard but if you're not, def check him out. He's thought provoking, bleak and funny as hell as well as a great writer. Def. world class in a way that's rare in SF.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:14
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:The first wizard of Earthsea book was a cool. Gatta keep reading the rest of the series.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:15
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I'm gonna watch Tales of Earthsra tonight even though it's a bad adaptation.
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Jan 24, 2018 19:51
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I first heard of Ursula K Leguin from the anime nerd at high school, who was obsessed with EarthSea or something and strongly recommended reading it It later turned out he was loving his sister and bragged about it to anyone who would listen So no, I’ve never read Ursula K Leguin
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Jan 24, 2018 21:44
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Oscar Wild posted:A great person who never stopped thinking, and writing. She will be missed. i thought u said drinking
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Jan 24, 2018 21:51
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Mammal Sauce posted:I always wondered what a scrotum would look like with a toupee. we'll find out when you go bald, BITCH
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Jan 24, 2018 21:52
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cda posted:Left Hand of Darkness is one of the greatest English-language books written in the 20th century, a complex political allegory, a tough-as-nails adventure, and a profound meditation on the limitations of knowledge. Go grab her later book, "The Telling," from your library if you liked LHD. It's not quite as good, but still very strong and has a similar feel. quote:The first wizard of Earthsea book was a cool. Gatta keep reading the rest of the series. Tombs of Atuan and Tehanu blow the first one away, in my opinion. Great series.
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Jan 24, 2018 22:02
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:I first heard of Ursula K Leguin from the anime nerd at high school, who was obsessed with EarthSea or something and strongly recommended reading it And that nerd grew up to be comfy Fleece Sweater (you)
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Jan 24, 2018 22:05
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cda posted:Makes sense but the reason I'm putting Bradbury in there is as much because like Le Guin and Atwood, he's a really excellent prose stylist. I'm trying to think of other SF authors who are as good, sentence for sentence, word for word, than those three. Not coincidentally, they all write/wrote extensively in other genres as well. The prose in so much SF is workmanlike or trying way too hard. Workmanlike is totally fine and there are lots of great SF stories that are just ok from the writing perspective, but in this thread about Le Guin I think it's worth pointing out that everything she wrote was beautifully written, even her later stuff which gets awfully preachy. agreed ...although Ray would call you out for saying his stuff was anything other than fantasy.
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Jan 24, 2018 22:05
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Kuato posted:And that nerd grew up to be comfy Fleece Sweater (you) gently caress you! Sexual harasser! You’re Jared fogle, you’re Kevin Spacey! rear end in a top hat! Leave me alone or there will be consequences ! Like my dick up your rear end! loving whore! Don’t mess with what you don’t understand, because this bull has horns!!! oval office grunt!
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Jan 24, 2018 22:10
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:gently caress you! Sexual harasser! You’re Jared fogle, you’re Kevin Spacey! rear end in a top hat! Leave me alone or there will be consequences ! Like my dick up your rear end! loving whore! Don’t mess with what you don’t understand, because this bull has horns!!! oval office grunt! a reasonable take, surely
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Jan 24, 2018 22:17
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i hadnt thought about this author in a while and read one of her short stories yesterday. i turned on the radio this morning and heard she was dead. anyway if you need me ill be reading some autobios
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Jan 24, 2018 22:18
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In grade 2 my teacher had the class read "A Wizard of Earthsea" and I fell in love right away. The book is beautiful, triumphant, melancholy, and good for all ages. The ending of the book fills you with a sense of peace. I look forward to when my little girl is old enough that I can read that book to her. I have seen lots of praise rightfully given to the second book in the series, The Tombs of Atuan, but no one has mentioned the third installment of the trilogy, which for years was the end of the Earthsea works. The Farthest Shore is a book about death, and noble sacrifice, and darkness creeping into society, and the end of dreams. To call it a masterpiece is almost not enough. It is heartwrenchingly beautiful, and if you read it at the right age, it gives you a taste of adulthood you really can understand. I only recently got ahold of Rocannon's World, her first published book, and saw that it would actually fit in nicely with The Culture universe of Iain M Banks. If you've read him but not Le Guin, I would describe Rocannon's World as a mix between Consider Phlebas and Matter but condensed into about 200 pages of action and badassness, with a Culture-agent type main character going on an excellent adventure with some low-tech dudes, clamaxing in an orbital strike coming down like the fist of God. She is the type of author I like to give away as a gift, because everyone who actually reads her really loves her. I've seen it said before (butchering that Batman quote) that fantasy authors like George RR Martin are what America deserves, while Ursula Le Guin is what American needs. I hope that some day people make beautiful adaptations of more of her work, to shine some light on the world and cancel out some of the more tasteless stuff being adapted right now.
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Jan 24, 2018 22:34
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I never trust flightless birds
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Jan 24, 2018 22:37
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the Earthsea books are YA but also totally readable as an adult. if you haven't read them before you should pick them up.A Wizard of Goatse posted:Again I'm operating from secondhand info instead of reading the dang books but my understanding is that Player of Games, the one people specifically keep recommending as the way to get into Banks, is about his live-and-let-live anarchic culture sending a provocateur to destabilize a nation they consider backwards and prep it for colonization by the empire. Which, again, interesting clash of values and assumptions about people with Left Hand Le Guin definitely has influences on Banks. Her writing is from a previous generation though, and her themes are society vs individual, utopia/distopia, and that sort of thing. really good stories with really good takes on the ideas that were running through a lot of SF of the 60s & 70s. Banks takes the next step and creates a true utopia with near-omnipotent power, and then confronts it with the Problem of Evil. in player of games they're not preping for colonization, they're preping to remake it top to bottom for their own good.
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Jan 25, 2018 01:08
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She got tired of Guinning
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Jan 25, 2018 01:09
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had to look her up to recall I read one of her books and it wasn't even that good lol
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Jan 25, 2018 01:18
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:I first heard of Ursula K Leguin from the anime nerd at high school, who was obsessed with EarthSea or something and strongly recommended reading it I wouldn't recommend loving your sister but he was right about the books, though.
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Jan 25, 2018 01:28
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That sucks! I loved her books when I was a kid.
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Jan 25, 2018 03:01
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She was great. I may have written a terrible essay or two on Left Hand of Darkness in college... She pretty much spearheaded the New Wave sci-fi back in the 60s. Edit: Atwood's next imo Colonel Cancer fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 04:44
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I wanted to walk away from Omelas but I'm too fat.
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Jan 25, 2018 06:27
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