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Just bought the book, planning to start reading after I've finished my current ebook, but I have to ask why the gently caress wasn't Dew Claws the book of the month?
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Oct 12, 2017 00:27
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I read the first two books, they are both really good. Good suggestion, I would have never heard of these otherwise. Surprised at the quality.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:19
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Just finished part 1 and... I like it. I don't know why I like it, but I do. As has been stated, aside from a few things, Elinor seems more likable then Mary-Love. Sure, she eats a little boy and bribes her mother-in-law with her first-born but that second one is more cold-and-calculating and less terrible-monster. I mean, who wouldn't do just about anything to finally be able to move out of their in-laws' house? Whoever said that the supernatural is in the background in the story was really telling the truth though, aside from maybe a grand total of 10 pages in the entire first part, we are basically reading about a feud between a mother and her daughter-in-law. I don't quite know why it is so interesting, but it really is.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:32
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boy Mary-Love sure does suck huh
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Oct 16, 2017 02:59
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Mel Mudkiper posted:boy Mary-Love sure does suck huh Yeah, basically. I'm just about finished with part 2 and, really, the only "horror" part of the story is seeing how much of a terrible mother Mary-Love is. I will give one thing to McDowell, I never thought reading about the politics of southern high-society would be as interesting as it has been so far. I keep waiting for something spooky and supernatural to happen, but what I get instead is another snubbed invitation/regifted gift/etc. If you think it sounds lame and uninteresting, it isn't. *edit* Also, speaking as a person who did not grow up in/has not lived in the South, the whole social environment is definitely interesting. I'm sure stuff isn't quite this way nowadays (and who knows how correct McDowell's take on Southern culture is), but it is a fun look into a culture that is just about as far away from the totally laid-back social environment I grew up in in Hawaii. I cain't wait to read more and, as soon as I get off work, I'm gone read more. USMC_Karl fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 03:19
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I have an extended family of moderate inherited wealth in Pennsyltucky and holy poo poo its accurate. My grandmother was a less calculating but equally controlling Mary-Love. I have been curious if Elinor's murders are limited to the ones in the book. The book mentions children drowning in the river being common, but the author never really makes it clear how often it happens. Is she just going this once every few years, or is she snatching a child every couple of weeks? Also, book 2 spoiler the most fear I had during Book 2 was about Early. Sister seems such a pitiable figure, and the fact she seemed to have a chance at happiness with Early made the fact Elinor hated him even more frightening. I kept being afraid that because they kept the engagement secret, Elinor was gonna knock off Early without realizing he was gonna marry Sister. I cannot even tell you how relieved I was when the marriage went off without a hitch
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Oct 16, 2017 03:59
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Also, book 2 spoiler the most fear I had during Book 2 was about Early. Sister seems such a pitiable figure, and the fact she seemed to have a chance at happiness with Early made the fact Elinor hated him even more frightening. I kept being afraid that because they kept the engagement secret, Elinor was gonna knock off Early without realizing he was gonna marry Sister. I cannot even tell you how relieved I was when the marriage went off without a hitch Same here. I thought for sure that Early was going to have an accident somewhere, especially just before the Christmas get-together (because Elinor seemed to be ok with the meeting, which made me think she had something up her sleeve) and just after the Christmas get-together (because Elinor learned just how close the levee was to actuality). Even after that, when Elinor said that the levee would never make it to her yard, I figured something was going to go down and kill Early/the levee-men or stop construction somehow. Boy was I surprised when John Robert made his brief reappearance in the story.
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Oct 16, 2017 04:21
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USMC_Karl posted:Same here. I thought for sure that Early was going to have an accident somewhere, especially just before the Christmas get-together (because Elinor seemed to be ok with the meeting, which made me think she had something up her sleeve) and just after the Christmas get-together (because Elinor learned just how close the levee was to actuality). Even after that, when Elinor said that the levee would never make it to her yard, I figured something was going to go down and kill Early/the levee-men or stop construction somehow. Boy was I surprised when John Robert made his brief reappearance in the story. Elinor: you know, they used to cut up a child and bury him alive to appease the gods of the river *end of chapter* Next Chapter: John Robert woke up... Me: Oh poo poo It does make me wonder if Elinor IS the river or if Elinor is just attuned to the River. She seems to completely control it, but it seems weird that if she were an embodiment of the River she would need to make a sacrifice to appease herself
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Oct 16, 2017 04:26
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Elinor: you know, they used to cut up a child and bury him alive to appease the gods of the river *end of chapter* That's actually a decent idea that never occurred to me. Maybe not necessarily that she is the river, but more of a spirit of the river or some such. She definitely has a very deep understanding of what will and will not happen to it. Starting part 3 and, holy poo poo am I starting to really hate Mary-Love. Before she just seemed like a batty old lady, but now she (and Miriam) are actively terrible people. The whole stamp fundraiser thing where she just had to win actually made me angry.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:31
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Even having read the whole book, I'm not sure why Elinor was so opposed to the leevee. She would regard it as pointless given her promise that there will be no flood as long as she's alive, but that doesn't really seem to quite explain how angry she is about it. Maybe it's about disrespecting the river and a sacrifice seen as people giving something back to the land.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:50
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I think she was opposed to it because it would unnaturally isolate the river from the community
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Oct 16, 2017 17:56
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anilEhilated posted:Even having read the whole book, I'm not sure why Elinor was so opposed to the leevee. She would regard it as pointless given her promise that there will be no flood as long as she's alive, but that doesn't really seem to quite explain how angry she is about it. Maybe it's about disrespecting the river and a sacrifice seen as people giving something back to the land. I'm around the middle of book 5 at this point, so not finished overall yet, but my impression is that Elinor's family is to rivers what, say, dryads are to forests: they live in them and are of them, but not identical with them. I think from the text so far at least Elinor is "connected" to the river, and the levee would change the river around and cut the town away from the river, but wouldn't actually accomplish anything (because floods happen for ~*~reasons~*~ and levees are just hubristic pointlessness). From her perspective, it's like a town deciding to cut down all the trees to prevent lightning strikes, when they've already got a perfectly good lightning rod on top of the church anyway (due to her presence): pointless and destructive and ugly and dumb.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:56
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I am halfway through and I am liking how the next generation is being set up with the sisters
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Oct 16, 2017 18:09
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I finished this last night because it's awesome and I couldn't put it down. I think my favorite thing is seeing the gradual modernization of America through the eyes of a few random rich people. My least favorite thing is how they just forgot about the random old people with the store. WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM AND THEIR STUFF? Zaddie for Governor!
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Oct 16, 2017 19:52
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Nevvy Z posted:
This is an aside to this series, but you get that same effect sometimes if you read long-running mystery series where the author published a novel a year. The Nero Wolfe novels by Rex Stout start in depression-era Manhattan and just roll forward book by book for forty years till you get to the 70's; the Travis McGee novels do the same thing for 1960's-1980's Florida.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:49
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think she was opposed to it because it would unnaturally isolate the river from the community this was my impression, yeah
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Oct 16, 2017 21:20
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Would it, though? The community is terrified of the river. As for nature, Elinor has absolutely no qualms about destroying that.
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Oct 16, 2017 22:11
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anilEhilated posted:Would it, though? The community is terrified of the river. Thats the point, before the levy, the town was in subservience to the river. They prospered from it, but were also held by its whims. It was like a volcano on an island, it was inseparable and fearful presence. The levy changes that dynamic of fear and awe.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:20
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It just feels weird to me that Elinor does a complete 180 after just one more murder. They tame the river, they tame the land, eventually they start destroying the swamps and Elinor doesn't raise a single objection after this. I guess it doesn't make sense to me in the light of (the lack of) her later actions. I realize the leevee can be seen as taking power away from the river but it feels weird with all the industrialization of the area. e: I'm not sure I'm saying what I want to say: what I'm wondering about is not Elinor's reasons for fighting against the leevee but her coming to terms with it so well she becomes a driving force of screwing with the land. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 16:30
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I'm just starting the final book but I get the sense that Elinor kinda "goes native" among humanity, especially in contrast with Frances.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:37
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She does, but it's just... so sudden, I guess. Like "fixing" the useless leevee completely reconciles her with the idea of... Christ, what's the English word for terraforming when it actually takes place on Earth? Land works? Extreme gardening?
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Oct 17, 2017 16:43
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Landscaping away the river
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Oct 17, 2017 16:52
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I picked this up after seeing that the setting is the county I grew up in Alabama. I have only made it part way into book 2, but I am mostly horrified by how much of my family I see in the way Mary-Love and Sister behave and the family dynamics.
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Oct 18, 2017 03:46
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Getting near the end of the penultimate book and, while there is really nothing spooky going down, am still having a lot of fun reading. My thoughts re: Elinor and the Levee. It seems to me that Elinor is, at first, worried that the levee will cut her (and the town) off from the river, but then after it is completed she realizes that it really doesn't. The completion of the levee is sort of a turning point for her in that she starts to, as Hieronymous Alloy puts it, go native once its done. Pre-completion she is still very strange, not really getting directly involved with anything and standing apart from the Caskeys. Once the levee is done, though, she starts to assert herself as the rightful head of the family. The whole Frances storyline is pretty interesting because it really makes Elinor seem human. I particularly like the whole justification for why Nerita is not a monster. "Hey now, black people are cool and lesbians are cool, so why can't fish people be cool too?" This book really is just us reading about a southern family with an occasional dip into the supernatural. Still a very good read though.
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Oct 19, 2017 04:49
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Yeah this book is a real diamond in the rough I am gonna spend the rest of my life convincing people to read this along with Aquarium
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Oct 19, 2017 13:20
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I'm on the downward slope of the last part now and, boy, I keep alternating between really not liking Miriam's side of the story and really feeling sorry for Oscar and Elinor. "That supper in Pensacola disagreed with me, Elinor." 
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Oct 20, 2017 07:47
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yeah this book is a real diamond in the rough I am gonna spend the rest of my life convincing people to read this along with Aquarium Were you the one who wildcarded me with Aquarium, because if so, thanks again, that book ruled. Am properly underway with Blackwater now, well into part 2, loving it.
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Oct 20, 2017 09:05
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All finished. No regrets. Need suggestions for next month.
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Oct 20, 2017 15:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:All finished. No regrets. Aquarium by David Vann It is time to unleash the beast
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Oct 20, 2017 16:02
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:All finished. No regrets.
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Oct 20, 2017 16:08
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Aquarium by David Vann This whole time i've been getting that book confused with Wolf in White Van
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Oct 20, 2017 16:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:This whole time i've been getting that book confused with Wolf in White Van you mother fucker
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Oct 20, 2017 17:52
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I am little disapointed with how Mary-Love exits the story. I wanted her to suffer a fate that was much more of her own making than it ended up being.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:14
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There's a subterranean press illustrated edition of this series but the lowest price I see for it online is $600.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:26
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I absolutely loved the line about how Southerners easily accept aberrations that are already there, but not the possibility of aberrations. Also, one real strength this book has is how it denies the "tropes" of family dramas in a very refreshing way. You can sometimes see plotlines coming from similar stories, but then they are restructured in a really interesting way. Like Early for example, first you think he will tragically die and leave Sister a heartbroken spinster. He doesn't. Then you think maybe he will become a monster, he doesn't. A lovely husband, sure, but not as bad as Trevor or Queenie's husband. And there is no drama. She just leaves him. Danjo is probably the best example. The fourth book starts with telling us the war has started and Danjo is 17. Every single siren goes off in your head. He's innocent. He's beloved. He is James' lifeline. This loving kid is gonna get killed and it will destroy James and turn him into a frail tragic old man. He signs up with a promise for radio corps, but you know they are gonna say "but then he was transferred to the front and died." Nope, goes to the radio corps just fine. Then he is sent to Europe after most of the fighting is over, and you go "Ah, he ironically dies in safety after avoiding the most dangerous part of the war." Nope, he's still just fine. Then he gets married to a German duchess and before James can find out, James dies of a heart attack. On one hand, having the Caskey family completely escape the tragedy of war seems a bit insincere. On the other hand, by basically thumbing his nose at the tropes of war in family drama fiction, he makes the story way more engaging. mod edit spoiler tags Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 16:45
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I'd guess it fits in with the general trend of Elinor (and through her the Caskeys) profitting from death, be it sacrifice, murder or war.
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Oct 23, 2017 16:49
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Finished the first book on a plane last night. It was really solid and the end was intriguing and made me want to keep reading, which is always the thing I hate about series because I like jumping around to different books and genres and now I have all this drat poo poo checked out from the library I need to read before I continue the series. Each book (in this series) is super short though so I'll probably return to it in a few weeks and knock it out pretty quickly. I trust the thread will stay open since this seems to be a more popular BotM? Favorite part of book 1 was the really well done description of Elinor's natural form. I was a bit disappointed we didn't get more blatant river monster visuals after that because it was a really amazing hook at the end of the first chapter. Oh also I like all the dudes being ridiculous henpecked wimps
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Oct 24, 2017 16:38
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The whole series is available on e-reader for like 9 bucks if you are interested.
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Oct 24, 2017 16:56
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Guy A. Person posted:Oh also I like all the dudes being ridiculous henpecked wimps e: Actually there's one bit I sort of enjoyed in spite of itself: Malcolm's return and marriage to Miriam. Interesting mixture of being happy things turned out well for him and sorry for him for much the same reason there. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 16:57
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anilEhilated posted:That or rapists. If there is reoccurring trope its that river monsters sure do love eating rapists
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Oct 24, 2017 16:58
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