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Welcome friends to the annual Noirvember thread! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60YeQtMAH0U For the entire month this thread will be the home for discussion about all things Film Noir. Film Noir is the term for the period of American filmmaking in the 1940s and ‘50s that was characterized by its dark, oppressive and fatalistic tone as the post-WWII disillusionment kicked in. The term Noir is certainly broad, and most of the films don’t fit all the checkboxes, but reoccurring motifs were sordid and violent plots, immoral and amoral characters, dialogue that ranged from stylistically snappy to piercingly blunt, and dark evocative cinematography influenced from the Expressionist films decades prior. After the fifties ended, Noir didn’t fade away but went on to be revisited and re-contextualized by the generations that followed. Filmmakers in other nations would also put their own spin on Noir, like in the UK, France, and Japan in the ‘50s and ‘60s. Here’s some good lists to pull from for this month: They Shoot Pictures - 1,000 Noir Films Eddie Muller's Top 25 Noir Films IMDb - 100 Best Film-Noir Now on this month I keep it completely Classic and watch only black and white American films between 1940-59, but any discussion about foreign and Neo-Noir is encouraged! 
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Nov 1, 2018 22:20
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To kick things off here's 6 of my favorite Noirs that I'd suggest for someone looking to start watching them:     
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Nov 1, 2018 22:20
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It's an old article so some of the links might be dead, but Here's 60 free noir films. Detour and Scarlet Street at least are solid recommendations.
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Nov 2, 2018 02:07
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The best noir I've seen is Out of the Past with Robert Mitchum, Jane Greer and Kirk Douglas. It manages to have all the tropes that noir is known for, but they all come off perfectly. There are tons of twists that keep it fun, and Robert Mitchum's character is especially clever.  My plan is to just go through FilmStruck's noir catalog all month. They have Out of the Past, so hopefully I can rewatch it.
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Nov 2, 2018 03:22
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1. D.O.A. I'm trying to watch stuff I haven't seen for this and DOA is in a lot of lists that go past 10 for best Noir films and it's pretty good. It's an amazing hook and I love that they doubled down on it in the end credits. I'm not going to give in depth reviews of what I watch, but everything I watch that's new to me will be judged on being better or worse than DOA (I'm going to rewatch some stuff I haven't seen in a while).
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Nov 2, 2018 03:25
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The list I’ve used in the past is Paste Magazine’s list of The 100 Best Noirs of All Time, which features a good selection of classic 40s and 50s noir, along with neo-noirs like Fargo, Blade Runner, Angel Heart, and more. I used it to find Tension, which my library has in a two-pack with a noir I’ve never heard of called Where Danger Lives, starring Robert Mitchum and Claude Rains! I’m also grabbing The Black Dahlia, even though it’s probably bad, because I read the book and liked it a lot and I need to watch more De Palma in general.Skwirl posted:It's an old article so some of the links might be dead, but Janus films restored Detour in 4K this year, I hope they do a theatrical re-release. Skwirl posted:1. DOA is maybe the film with a biggest gulf in quality between act 1 and the rest of the movie, because that first part is sooooo slow, but once he gets poisoned it kicks into overdrive and never stops.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:12
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Wow Nroo, of your top six I've only seen The Killing. I definitely need to correct that. Noir is great because of how it's evolved over time to kind of reflect the attitudes of whatever time they were made in, similar to what happened with the western. A noir from 1946 is not the same as a noir from 1956 and so on. It really is a genre unto itself. Kiss Me Deadly is currently my favorite noir.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:05
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Money Bags posted:Wow Nroo, of your top six I've only seen The Killing. I definitely need to correct that. The only other one of their’s I’ve seen is Double Indemnity, but it’s been way too long since I watched it. Kiss Me Deadly is so good, the ending just outdoes the rest of the movie. Love it.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:09
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Some of those noir lists in the OP on letterboxd: They Shot Dark Pictures Didn't They? (1000) Paste 100 Best from above Film Noir The Encyclopedia: The Classic Years I don't know if I'll be doing a full noirvember thing. Last year I concentrated on neo-noirs, and that was great - but I'm sure I'll pick up a few noirs throughout!
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Nov 2, 2018 19:51
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My top 100
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Nov 2, 2018 21:12
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Dammit I should've put up the poster for Kiss Me Deadly too. But for anyone who hasn't seen Sweet Smell of Success I can't stress enough how much it owns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJoYw_GoAcg Oh hell yeah
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Nov 2, 2018 22:20
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Are there any good Noir films starring women? There's a lot of great noir films with great female characters, but they're usually a femme fatale or a secretary or that one chick who works in the bookstore in The Big Sleep.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:24
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Anyone else going to watch noir on FilmStruck? I'm looking for some good recommendations from their catalog, especially if any are going to be hard to find after it's gone.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:25
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Skwirl posted:Are there any good Noir films starring women? There's a lot of great noir films with great female characters, but they're usually a femme fatale or a secretary or that one chick who works in the bookstore in The Big Sleep. The first one that comes to mind is Mildred Pierce, which is excellent. edit: Also, Shadow of a Doubt, and I haven't seen it yet but Christmas Holiday, which I'm saving for the transition to December. Nroo fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 22:26
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Skwirl posted:Are there any good Noir films starring women? There's a lot of great noir films with great female characters, but they're usually a femme fatale or a secretary or that one chick who works in the bookstore in The Big Sleep. Sudden Fear has Joan Crawford going insane and is a lot of fun. Also Jack Palance and Gloria Grahame so it's all good. Beyond the Forest is not your typical noir, but it is fantastic with Bette Davis hamming up the place. Tagline is also gold "Nobody's as good as Bette Davis when she's bad!". Hell yeah.
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Nov 2, 2018 23:41
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Skwirl posted:Are there any good Noir films starring women? There's a lot of great noir films with great female characters, but they're usually a femme fatale or a secretary or that one chick who works in the bookstore in The Big Sleep. Gaslight if you consider that noir. They Live By Night if you want something a bit more romantic. If neo-noirs also count, then Blood Simple and Fargo of course. On a sidenote, Orson Welles originally wanted Agnes Moorehead to play the detective role in The Stranger because he liked the idea of a clever spinster chasing Nazis. In the end, Edward G. Robinson took over the role though.
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Nov 3, 2018 12:01
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Skwirl posted:Are there any good Noir films starring women? There's a lot of great noir films with great female characters, but they're usually a femme fatale or a secretary or that one chick who works in the bookstore in The Big Sleep. Not quite what you’re asking for, but The Hitch-Hiker was co-written and directed by Ida Lupino, and it loving rules.
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Nov 3, 2018 13:20
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Speaking of Lupino, film #1 for me was The Bigamist! Starring Joan Fontaine, Ida Lupino, Edmond O’Brien, and
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Nov 3, 2018 21:34
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I'm watching LA Confidential right now. What would be a good 40s-60s companion for a double-feature?
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Nov 4, 2018 00:28
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In a Lonely Place seems like the obvious companion piece, given that director Curtis Hanson cited it as one of his main inspirations.
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Nov 4, 2018 00:31
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Skwirl posted:Are there any good Noir films starring women? There's a lot of great noir films with great female characters, but they're usually a femme fatale or a secretary or that one chick who works in the bookstore in The Big Sleep. Two that Arrow put out recently - Secret Beyond the Door and The Dark Mirror are pretty good. The former more so than the latter.
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Nov 4, 2018 01:27
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Not up to going full horror thread with this, but definitely up for discovering some new noirs and revisiting favorites. The Seventh Victim (1943)  Aka the site of the Shocktober/Noirvember peace accords Revolves around a woman investigating her sister's disappearance which leads her to the door of a society of devil worshippers. Ahead of its time in its portrayal of satan worshippers as neither particularly evil nor a form of transgressive good but rather just a bunch of bored rich assholes trying something out just to try it. Lots of evocative scenes, including one that seems to anticipate the shower scene from Psycho and a footchase on the streets that recalls producer Val Lewton's horror movies. The ending is as chilling as it is unsatisfying and sudden. 3.5/5  Tension (1949)  Enjoyably complicated "schmuck gets in over his head" plot with a very fun femme fatale turn from Audrey Totter. The murder plot in this movie literally involves the guy taking his glasses off so he'll look like a different person to everyone! And then he threatens the guy before committing the murder! Then can't go through with it! Terrible crooks are so much fun. Cyd Cherise from Singin' in the Rain is also captivating as the neighbor the schmuck falls for, complicating his already-doomed plan. On the downside, the eventual shift in protagonists from schmuck to detective and the fact that there's only one real suspect robs the film of its...well, tension. This is where the plant through the glass door thing from Body Heat comes from btw 3/5
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Nov 4, 2018 04:09
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Saw Touch of Evil for the first time last night. If it weren't for a few dramatic elements near the end that I've seen so many times in so many other forms I'd have nearly no complaints. While watching it I almost (but not quite) forgot how old the movie was, that age being the only thing keeping me from being convinced that the movie was going to end in a black hole of despair.
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Nov 4, 2018 19:58
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Saw Touch of Evil for the first time last night. If it weren't for a few dramatic elements near the end that I've seen so many times in so many other forms I'd have nearly no complaints. While watching it I almost (but not quite) forgot how old the movie was, that age being the only thing keeping me from being convinced that the movie was going to end in a black hole of despair. It's weird thing when you're watching Noir films (or old films in general) where you get annoyed at a cliche but then realize the reason it's a cliche is because people liked the movie then wrote other movies.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:07
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Saw Touch of Evil for the first time last night. Out of curiosity, which cut did you end up watching?
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Nov 4, 2018 20:11
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Skwirl posted:It's weird thing when you're watching Noir films (or old films in general) where you get annoyed at a cliche but then realize the reason it's a cliche is because people liked the movie then wrote other movies. I guess part of it for me is the original execution. Like Dennis Weaver as the night attendant at the motel is weird and really overdoing it and I've certainly seen that a number of times before but for some reason here I still liked it and if you all think I would complain about that character you've got another thing comin' e: Samuel Clemens posted:Out of curiosity, which cut did you end up watching? The one on Netflix. It has an opening card that talks about being formed as best as it can be according to Welles' memo so I think that means it's the 1998 release
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Nov 4, 2018 20:12
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Is Kurotokage / Black Lizard (1962) considered a noir or neo-noir? What about Cure (1997), directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa?
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Nov 4, 2018 22:23
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I'm going to say anything from the 90's is Neo-Noir.
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Nov 4, 2018 22:28
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Franchescanado posted:Is Kurotokage / Black Lizard (1962) considered a noir or neo-noir? Noir is a tricky genre to talk about, since the term was applied retroactively to a number of different films that just happened to share similarities and because it's as much about a particular visual style as it is about thematic and narrative elements. That being said, the more-or-less agreed-upon cut-off point for the classic noir period is Touch of Evil in 1958, with everything coming afterwards being some form of neo-noir. However, I don't think either film you mentioned is generally talked about as noir, classic or neo. Black Lizard is a campy spy story in the vein of something like Danger: Diabolik, and Cure is psychological horror. Adlai Stevenson posted:The one on Netflix. It has an opening card that talks about being formed as best as it can be according to Welles' memo so I think that means it's the 1998 release Yeah, that's the 1998 cut. There's technically four versions of Touch of Evil available right now, as both the original release and the 1998 cut can be seen in either 4:3 or 16:9. Samuel Clemens fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 22:51
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Samuel Clemens posted:Yeah, that's the 1998 cut. There's technically four versions of Touch of Evil available right now, as both the original release and the 1998 cut can be seen in either 4:3 or 16:9. The US Blu-ray has the '58 theatrical cut, preview cut, and '98 reconstruction - all in 1.85:1 from 4K. There's actually a fourth cut that was only released on VHS and laserdisc that combined the theatrical and preview cuts, by using all available footage between the two. The preview cut has both extra Welles and reshoot footage not in the theatrical cut, while the theatrical cut has extra Welles footage not in the preview cut. (Also, skip the 4x3 versions - Welles absolutely intended 1.85:1. He actually wanted to shoot in CinemaScope for the first time, but it wasn't in the budget)
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Nov 4, 2018 23:25
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Oh, sweet, the preview cut still exists? For some reason I thought that was taken out of circulation a few years ago.
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Nov 4, 2018 23:41
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Samuel Clemens posted:Oh, sweet, the preview cut still exists? For some reason I thought that was taken out of circulation a few years ago. Initially only the reconstruction was released on DVD, but the deluxe 2-disc DVD and Blu-ray releases have all three cuts. Each one even has a commentary (reconstruction: one with the restorer, another with him and Heston and Leigh; F.X. Feeney on the theatrical cut, and Jonathan Rosenbaum and James Naremore on the preview cut).
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Nov 5, 2018 00:00
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Nroo posted:The first one that comes to mind is Mildred Pierce, which is excellent. Somehow I always thought Mildred Pierce was a 70's movie about abortion (it's not).
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Nov 5, 2018 05:57
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The Sniper (1952) Alternates between being a wholly unremarkable procedural and uh, the birth of contemporary film and television narrative. By far at its best when focusing on Arthur Franz as the title character, his seething hatred of women mingling with his reluctance to kill. The portrayal of a neglected man on the outskirts of society channeling his pain into violent misogyny feels shockingly undated, you could draw a direct line between the crimes in this film and ones we hear about today. The murder sequences themselves are also heartbreakingly staged, little slice-of-life tableaus about these women seen from afar that come to a sudden and tragic end. Also features an incredibly haunting last shot that flies in the face of noir convention. What keeps me from letting me rate this as high as I'd like to are the police department scenes, which feel like if the worst scene from Psycho made up about one-third of the movie and directly moralized at you. While I admire the film's progressive social conscience, the way it alternates between "we need a more compassionate justice system that helps the mentally disturbed" and "we need to lock up everyone who commits misdemeanor assault forever because they might get guns" is...confused. So it fails as a social message picture, in the way that social message pictures tended to fail, but in its uneasy mix of sympathy, pity, and fear for the profoundly damaged human being at its center...it was on to something, something that many of the major works of the 20th century would run with. 3.5/5 Woman on the Run (1950)  Screwball comedy noir! What a fun idea. Someone was asking about noir with female leads and this is a fun one. A woman's estranged husband goes into hiding after witnessing a mob hit and she's reluctantly used by the cops and a reporter to track him down. Of course, in the process of searching for him she finds that she loves the poor dope after all. This is a lot of fun with a fast pace, lots of whip-crack dialogue, at least one genuinely surprising plot twist, a suspenseful finale involving attempted murder by roller coaster, and a cool dog. This was nearly a lost film but thankfully the UCLA Film and Television Archive restored it. 4/5 Weirdly, both of these movies have key scenes that take place at San Francisco's Playland amusement park. Dr. Puppykicker fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 07:22
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Needing a break from the election coverage last night, I bugged my wife to give Double Indemnity a chance on TCM on demand, and of course she ended up really enjoying it. (How could you not?) She isn't generally a fan of old black and white movies, but she also really liked The Big Sleep, Casablanca, Gaslight, and most Hitchcock classics when she gave them a chance. I just wish TCM would put more noir films on demand, and keep them up longer than a few days.
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Nov 7, 2018 14:27
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Franchescanado posted:The best noir I've seen is Out of the Past with Robert Mitchum, Jane Greer and Kirk Douglas. That's a great one that really does nail down all the things noir is known for. It's so noir , I believe it has a scene where someone offers Robert Mitchum a cigarette, despite him already puffing on a freshly lit one. I'm discovering this post late, but I'm still recovering from October. I'll likely review several, it's one of my favorite genre Some of my favorites for anyone wanting suggestions; Kiss Of Death - Someone watch this and tell me Jess Franco (in Freaks and Geeks) wasn't trying his best to channel the spirit of Widmarks character from this movie. An odd observation, but just watch. This is just a great gangster film Blast Of Silence - I love everything about this movie and the voice over narration is just great. Is the The Red House considered noir? Dr.Caligari fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 02:54
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I saw these several years ago and can't remember much about the stories but I remember loving the feeling in them. These are my favorite noirs (old and new): Force of Evil - The director Abraham Polonsky was blacklisted and forced out of Hollywood. An unfairly forgotten masterpiece. The Prowler (the one by Joseph Losey, not the slasher by Joseph Zito), is another great noir by a blacklisted director. IIRC this is James Ellroy's favorite film. The Black Dahlia, panned by critics and the audience at release, but I think this is a lot more interesting than the overly slick and artificial "L.A. Confidential". Night Moves, Arthur Penn's (Bonnie and Clyde) masterpiece imo. The Naked Kiss, insane Sam Fuller film. Must be seen to be believed. Almost unbelievable when seen. Practically any film ever made by Fritz Lang. Pick a Lang film at random and chances are 100% it will be a masterpiece and probably around 70% that it will be a film noir. E: forgot to mention "The Narrow Margin" which is a great B-movie set entirely on a train. The_Brons fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 17:12
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Any recommendations for similar , serious/ gritty movies like Blast Of Silence? I should probably just watch BOS, but I would like to see something new (to me)
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Nov 10, 2018 19:24
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I've actually not seen a whole lot of original 40s/50s era noir so I will add some of the stuff on this page to the list. I'm more familiar with movies that get described as neo-noir, however that ends up being defined. Movies that get put in that category which I like include Point Blank, Body Heat, Thief, Blow-Out, Manhunter, Sea of Love, Collateral, various Coen brothers movies and so on. My favourite movie is The Long Good Friday which borrows Chandler for its title but I'm not sure if it's neo-noir or not. Of course I sometimes see Miami Vice of all things described as neo-noir (and in complete fairness, there are certain episodes like "Out Where the Buses Don't Run" that definitely are, but this is also a show with an episode where Edward James Olmos sneaks around a mansion taking out KGBs with a samurai sword). Would something like (on television) Prime Suspect or Cracker be categorisable neo-noir or is that stretching it?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:45
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Dr.Caligari posted:Any recommendations for similar , serious/ gritty movies like Blast Of Silence? Kiss Me Deadly
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Nov 10, 2018 20:08
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