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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Ytlaya posted:

This bugged me because IIRC the explanation was something like "a bunch of your cells are frozen, so when you move they don't and just rip you up" but in practice this would just instantly kill you (or at least cause fatal injuries + brain damage) instead of just giving you a bunch of superficial bleeding wounds.

Like if you're going to get really specific with the description like that, the effects should at least be consistent with it.[/spoiler]

I mean that is true of most shonen battle injuries even in the best of times, let alone the crazy poo poo that happens in JK.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

EmmyOk posted:

Watched JJK 0 for the first time last night now that it's on Crunchyroll, I hadn't read the manga for it either. Liked it a tonne, also was surprised how different true Geto was compared to Kenjaku Geto. He's just much more playful than he is as Kenjaku. Not that he isn't a bit goofy in the main storyline but much less so imo. For people who read 0 before the Shibuya stuff was it obvious there was something different about him? Or just assumed it was because 0 despite being first and canon was maybe not set in stone how everything would be?

Film whipped rear end anyway.

It seemed relatively obvious to me because he was acting different and also had the giant fuckoff scar.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

This is absolutely implausible.

There is no way an American President would be upset at the idea of kidnapping foreign citizens to be fuel slaves

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Petition to change thread title to This Is America

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Pretty much every line out of Wario's mouth is a comedy masterpiece

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I think the cartoonishly evil Wario is at least as funny as Samurai Guy

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Blockhouse posted:

the old guy samurai man possessed is probably just dead now

that's pretty dark

Eh, who isn't at least a little dead in the JK universe?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Manatee Cannon posted:

disagree culling game is really good and imo people should just reread it from the start because it flows better that way

I did and it still is really not very good. It is meandering and poorly explained and while it has cool moments they only feel loosely connected to the concept itself. Characters get introduced in a rush which removes a lot of emotional stakes (Angel being the latest victim of this) and while there are cool fights they tend to be more cool in a vacuum than satisfying conflict fights.

It isn't series ruining or anything but it feels like a bunch of random ideas thrown at the wall and the fact a good number are cool ideas doesn't really change that

The latest stuff is cool because it is paying off long running plots, same way Maki's thing was cool.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

TheHan posted:

the culling game has been a super confusing overarching storyline with some of the best action and character work i've ever read in shonen. the Yuta 1 v 1 v 1 (v 1!!!! the roach curse twist was great) and Hakari has a throne in my heart, but I couldn't begin to tell you what effect those fights had on this arc.

The lawyer fight is my favorite fight in the manga. It has some amazing moments, don't get me wrong.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

MonsterEnvy posted:

Step siblings so not as creepy as it could be.

This is thr first time I have ever seen this statement unironically.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I am slightly more invested now that it actually focuses on characters I care about but it's so hard to care about a character basically only introduced two chapters ago who is possessing the body of a character who is more Macguffin than human. Sukina makes it more appealing but I feel like the entire Culling Game/possession concept has been terribly used and I'd rather just go back to characters who don't feel like a bad attempt at creating a Hunter x Hunter style extended cast.

It doesn't help that I've been pretty hype since Sukina pulled off his body switch and this chapter just felt dull.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

The Culling Game is just too convoluted without purpose.

Like you *can* do weird super complex plotlines revolving mostly around new characters but you need to be like HxH where everything is very focused. Culling Game wasn't that.

And it kind of wrecked the momentum of the series and failed to really introduce new characters in any meaningful way. I think people would have an easier time moving forward if any of the new characters really felt like characters or anyone was allowed to do anything.

Maybe it can recover its footing but I think the big problem at the moment is that with Megumi and Nobara both gone we're stuck with a bunch of forgettable side characters who haven't really distinguished themselves.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Tosk posted:

Honestly, even though I agree that JJK is having a hard time fully sticking its landing with this back third or so of the manga, I disagree with a lot of your points. Ignoring where you're just saying "why did you kill this character I liked," I agree that Gojo's imprisonment, which was basically the motor of the story the whole time considering Kenjaku's plans, had a pretty lukewarm payout, and Gege's treatment of the women in JJK has turned out pretty dire with the trifecta of Nobara, Tsukumo and Tsumiki.

That said, JJK has always felt like a "response" to the previous generation of shonen battle manga to me in the way its internal logic works and a lot of the story beats it hits. People may or may not agree with me here but I see a lot of parallels with Naruto in particular in the first half. Did it seem like it was setting up in the beginning to be another sprawling shonen epic for its secondary characters to grow into? Maybe, although Gege might have never intended to go in that direction to begin with. Ultimately we will never know, because one of the interesting things about manga as a medium is its serial nature. Gege has been working on this for over five years. His plans might have changed a hundred times. He might be experiencing severe burnout.

The stuff you're complaining about isn't unique to JJK at all. It's the rule in these manga for secondary characters that seem important to eventually fade into the background. A lot of the "shonen conceits" you mentioned feel like they buck against keeping the secondary cast relevant - the need to constantly up the odds, buff the protagonists, etc. If anything, I think Gege has resolved most of the issues with those conceits extremely well. He was never going to be able to give you that infinite exposition on the cool secondaries, so cutting down the cast as the story goes simply by throwing out the plot armor is a great decision imo. It would have been lame for him to set up Gojo and then undermine the idea that he's this unstoppable god among sorcerers by introducing an unknown antag with mystery powers that mercs him, but at some point he had to resolve his presence in the manga. Instead the antag's plans revolved entirely around a long con to maybe probably incapacitate him in the polar opposite of a fair fight.

I agree that when you zoom in on those decisions, the execution hasn't always been great. Imprisoning Gojo as the focus of the story and then resolving it by introducing a random character like Angel with the ability to free him was lazy. some of the aforementioned choices on which characters to consistently shitcan have been bad. The plot got kinda convoluted and it seems like it's going to be hard for the Culling Games to have a good payoff, and Gege seems like he's sick of coming up with this poo poo and just wants to give us an insane fight for this battle.

That said, I still think it's going to end its run as a solid shonen with some real issues, but overall a nice step forward for the genre in a lot of ways. hopefully next time an editor mentions to Gege that hey, maybe screwing over every woman he writes isn't great.

This back half of JJK has felt a lot more like HxH to me, or really even maybe more like Yu Yu Hakusho in terms of the vibes and aesthetic. Maybe the Togashi crash and burn is just part of the bit!

I don't think JJK was ever set up to be a massive sprawling epic. That is part of the problem. It had a strong small focused cast and even when it began to suffer from bloat it was never really at the point where it felt overly bloated because the characters felt more 'lived in.' Since the Culling Game it's basically started to try to branch out to a wider cast of characters but it's coming so late in the story that it feels kind of weird and pointless. Like some of the power sets are cool but almost everything just feels like a plot device more than a character. The problem with a comparison to something like HXH is that HXH kept a fairly straightforward focus and when it introduced new characters it was because they were relevant in some fashion.

Everything past the Culling Game arc has just felt so unfocused and pretty much none of the new characters have either landed or stuck around meaningfully long enough to be anything but plot devices (even if they're funny ones.) You can cull your cast down to almost nothing and rebuild it up but you have to actually succeed at building it back up and everything feels too rushed for that at this point so most of the cast is just kind of there. I don't think people would be wanting old characters to return as much if the new characters felt like characters. It's also not hard to compare it to something like Chainsaw Man which went through its cast like, well, a chainsaw but managed to make it feel more meaningful when it did.

Like honestly The Culling Game spent more time on the fuckin' gatcha superpower than it did on Hana as a character despite Hana being presented as important and relevant and characters worrying she's 'replacing' other characters and all of that and despite all of that Hana seems barely there as a character despite this entire arc theoretically being about her!

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

usenet celeb 1992 posted:

I fell like Gege could do a really strong anthology series focused around tight battles and individual character stories. The Higuruma fight was one of the highlights of the culling game because it presented a really compelling snapshot of Cursed Phoenix Wright's life and futile struggle against crushing societal pressure. It also integrated very well into the overall storyline by using it as an in to explore Yuji's own sense of guilt.

The series is at its strongest when exploring how modern curses arise from the lovely mundane pressures of the modern world, and it's puzzling that the culling game, premised around pitting reincarnated vs. modern sorcerers, doesn't play more with the thematic tensions. Like, he's clearly aware of it but it's collapsing under the pressure of pulling together a Big World-Threatening storyline.

Hell, give us a prequel monster-of-the-week series starring Nanami (the perfect vessel for exploring these themes).

Yeah the Judgeman stuff was the highlight. Just a genuinely interesting story that tied into a major part of the main character's story.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Brought To You By posted:

I'd assume they meant something like how FMA was a huge series in it's time but once the 2nd anime ended you don't really see people bringing it up and from what I've read it's not really reference in other works or by other mangaka.

FMA gets referenced all the time. Like just off the top of my head Mashle had s super blunt joke/reference to it recently

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

MonsterEnvy posted:

Another thing about Gege that’s good to remember is that he is pretty young. Like he is early 20s at most from what I know.

But how old is that in manga author year? 50?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

yum posted:

The Culling Games felt very erratic and barebones cause there was very little fluff. Every fight was meant to showcase a different character, which I'm assuming was to set up the finale + provide more jujutsu mechanic homework. We have 1 fight each for the new Big 3 Jujutsu High heavy hitters (Yuta, Maki, Hakari), Yuji, Megumi, Kenjaku (Tengan/Yuki/Big Bro), and finally Sukuna. After their Big Fights, with minor exceptions like Yuji, those characters are basically put in the waiting room in anticipation of the Ultimate Showdown.

Adding an extra scene or two or more interactions between those characters after their big debut would've made the story feel less rushed. But the skeleton was definitely there, I don't feel like the series of events depicted was unplanned or non-sensical.

I feel like Kinji vs Hajime felt pointless and just felt like an excuse to write another fight using the pachinko thing.

I admittedly loving hate the Pachinko thing since it doesn't feel like it has anything coherent to the flow of the fight.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

The pachinko power is the single best power in the manga. Just a man incredibly in love with a lovely romance manga so much he developed a fighting system based on the slot machine adaptation. That's HxH level dumb guy energy.

I like the idea in theory but I don't like the execution. Dumb powers in HxH feel like they have enough flow to make them work so 'I punch a dude and it loans him energy but then he collects interest and loses his powers if he goes bankrupt' is a goofy power than lends itself well to tense fights.

Hell within the manga itself I think I think the lawyer dude or Sumo guys execute weird ideas way better

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

This fight has extremely strong "two young kids playing on the playground" vibes. "Nu-uh! You can't do that! My domain says you can't." "Yes huh, I turned MY domain inside out so it beat up your domain!" "Well, fine, I'll use MY reverse cursed energy to heal my cursed energy!"

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I think it would be less annoying if they didn't half rear end it. Either she is coming back or all the pussyfooting around giving actual stated confirmation sucks. I think all the annoyance is that the plot beats are super unsubtle so poo poo like 'megumi says nothing but Yuji assumes' feels like it is dragging it out.

Even if they were keeping her survival a secret It'd be more impactful if Megumi lied instead so at least people are surprised.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

It would be absurdly narratively unsatisfying if Yuji wasn't the one to deal with him.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I think people would be less down if Hana did literally anything but be a plot device and victim. She was seemingly being set up and then nah.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Domain Expansion: Trapped In A Room With A Cryptobro Who Wants To Explain NFTs To You.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007


The next collaboration with what?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Asuron posted:

Reverse cursed technique is positive energy and cursed energy is negative energy. Cursed energy is harmful by nature so can’t heal humans. That’s about it really , it’s not difficult . The only powers I ever found difficult to understand were the constellation one and the gambling one, the latter of which was clearly by design but can be summed up as “ if he hits the jackpot , he gets four minutes of immortality and can reset as many times as he wants”.

I love Hunter X Hunter but there is no way in hell you can tell me the abilities aren’t convoluted as hell and hard to follow , let alone figuring out the Nen types which seem obvious, but then Togashi released his Nen chart and now a lot of obvious picks make no sense anymore.

They really are not that hard to follow. Like most Nen is straightforward as poo poo because Nen is based more around personality over strict rules except the rules they set themselves.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Yeah as long as it comes to a coherent natural ending that is fine. The only thing that sucks is a rushed/unsatisfying ending.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



I feel like people are kind of flipping on a dime here? The last week was "Wow, Gojo won unambiguously! What a twist!" and now this week it is "Gojo is 100% for sure unambiguously dead and did no lasting damage" Like I'm as critical as anyone about the output of the series since the Culling Game started but the last few months have been literally nonstop 'it looks like (x) is DEAD FOREVER" "Oh wait NM" stuff.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007


To be honest my only real criticism of the sequence if he is for real permadead is that it makes the entire Culling Game thing feel even more like a waste of time. I've got no problem with him dying shockingly here TBH.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Scholtz posted:

Unsurprising to see people split over this latest chapter.

No reason to fall to pieces.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Electric Phantasm posted:

*taking a huge hit of copium* Nobara isn't there in the afterlife

That would require anyone remembering she exists.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I just want the boring culling game characters to get quickly culled so the series can get back to characters I care about.

Even if most of them are dead, possessed or crippled.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I honestly am just having trouble following the flow of action. The art is really not doing its job there.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

MachuPikacchu posted:

Yeah I kind of don't care about whatever is happening here anymore. We've spent the last four months following a Calvinball fight that ended in absolutely nothing, in an arc that was already more about Calvinball bullshit than the pathos and character moments that defined the series and won it its popularity. The main bad guy is so ridiculously overpowered that the only way to beat him is something equally bullshit, so there's no way this story is going to end in a way that is at all satisfying. And that wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that said villain is just really boring.

Sorry to be a downer, but I'm officially checked out.

I think it would help if almost everyone who was a major player in the first half wasn't dead or possessed.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

LuiCypher posted:

Yuji and Sukuna are about to have a bare-knuckle deathmatch thanks to JUSTICE man, no cursed energy or cursed techniques. First one to fall has to apologize to Megumi!

But really, I do wonder how long Megumi's body and/or soul is going to be able to withstand Sukuna's fully-incarnated form before falling to pieces. Other sorcerers have incarnated into their host bodies before, but none of them were ever on or near Sukuna's level - it's unlikely that even compatible sorcerers would be able to maintain his form indefinitely. Itadori is many things, but the idea that he's probably a recreation of Sukuna (or at least a descendant) means that his body would be able to withstand it without any issues - after all, there's an interesting parallel between Itadori and Sukuna in that Itadori also grew up surrounded by people weaker than him considering his superhuman level of physical prowess. While he may be compatible, Megumi's body wasn't exactly designed by Kenjaku for that purpose in the way that Itadori's is.

To be honest I feel like "Megumi can be rescued" at this point feels kind of lame. Sukuna incarnated in him and then proceeded to absolutely destroy him spiritually and mentally. Even if he gets rescued he has basically nothing left.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

It's 2 weiners/4 balls the power of one of the jojo protagonists?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Blockhouse posted:

the only thing less likely than a wsj manga going on an extended hiatus is retconning things that literally just happened

Let me tell you about a little manga called One Punch Man.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

Yeah I noticed a long time ago that a lot of people seem to have memed themselves into thinking that the protagonist of JJK is gojo, not yuuji, and that seems to be a big motivator for why a lot of people are so especially mad about this

you may not like the specifics of how it happened but gojo's entire arc was designed around him having to eventually fail where the actual main character succeeds, he wasn't ever going to be the coolest guy around forever

I think some of the annoyance there comes from the fact that Getting Gojo Back was a major part of the entire Culling Game arc which people were already kind of turned off on, so having him revived and then dying near-instantly kind of is a sour point.

I honestly don't have a problem with his death (and kind of thought it was inevitable) but I do think the exact point it happened felt a bit weird and rushed.

Edit:
And as I mentioned before I think it suffers from the fact that aside from Yuuji everyone we started the series with is dead/effectively dead so people are probably a bit more negative about Gojo's death because it means we're down to Yuuji and a bunch of basically nobodies (and the prequel squad who I know some people consider nobodies but I like.)

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Oct 9, 2023

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

ThatBasqueGuy posted:

this is maki erasure, we got neo-toji and everyone is still hating smdh

and this is why gojo rules

Maki is part of the prequel squad!

Conspiratiorist posted:

So much emphasis is made ITT and other spaces on Yuji being the protagonist and how it's a flaw that the manga neglects him, and I'm sitting here scratching my head because JJK is clearly an ensemble cast story.

It's hard to have an ensemble cast story when the vast majority of your ensemble cast either vanishes from the plot or is dead.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Oct 9, 2023

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

UnderFreddy posted:

what were the innovative parts

People apparently basically just turned off any time it focused on side characters or less fighty bits.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Nobara will only die when the series can make me care about someone introduced after her.

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