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HopperUK posted:I'm going to have to play these at some point to find out what everyone's talking about. What a terrible tragedy for me. Ohno! But what if you like them? 
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May 5, 2024 21:43
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wizard2 posted:I absolutely do that in anything like FF5 or Bravely. In Dragon Age 1 I made Wynne (healer grandma) into an Arcane Warrior or whatever it was called so she could equip armor and 2h weapons using her INT/WIS instead of STR/CON. I had a fight where she used a claymore to do an epic slow motion finishing blow on a giant dragon while I, the player, wooted extensively irl
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May 5, 2024 22:13
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Kheldarn posted:Ohno! But what if you like them? That's my worry too!! I am willing to take this risk. for the forums.
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May 5, 2024 22:19
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I'm excited for you playing Stranger of Paradise.
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May 5, 2024 22:39
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I really want another final fantasy game to use x-2s atb system someday Though honestly I'd be totally ok just iterating on ff7r's combat as well
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May 5, 2024 22:43
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HopperUK posted:I'm going to have to play these at some point to find out what everyone's talking about. What a terrible tragedy for me. Tough but fair imo.
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May 5, 2024 22:48
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the next FF game should be Ivalice: Total War
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May 5, 2024 22:49
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I also should really continue SOP. Once I commit to downloading and installing one of the loving fixes that let the game play correctly on my CPU. Godamnit
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May 5, 2024 22:54
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More games with job systems should be like X-2 and give each party member their own unique outfit for every job.
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May 5, 2024 23:19
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Nihilarian posted:hammers aren't bad enough to negate the foebreakers natural advantages, especially in the two class system Yeah that's fair, I was just thinking about the single job system. Somehow I still have IZJS on the brain. Really any heavy armor job is fantastic in the two-job system because it can be used to give heavy armor access to other physical jobs and supercharge their damage with the STR bonuses. In particular, Samurai, Monk, Shikari, and Archer all love getting heavy armor access.
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May 5, 2024 23:23
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Archer can actually get endgame heavy from shemhezai with almost no competition. The biggest alternative is red mage for esuna and cleanse, and red mage is one of archers best combos anyway
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May 5, 2024 23:33
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Nihilarian posted:Archer can actually get endgame heavy from shemhezai with almost no competition. The biggest alternative is red mage for esuna and cleanse, and red mage is one of archers best combos anyway Oh sure, it's just you can have it from much earlier with a heavy armor second job. Similarly Bushi can get the Genji equipment at endgame, but it's still nice to have heavy armor before then. That's one of the two reasons I love Knight/Bushi so much in Zodiac Age--you get heavy armor-boosted katanas for most of the game, and then White Robe-boosted Excalibur at endgame. Archer/Red Mage is definitely the stronger option for much of the game, though. It's really just if you prefer to use your Archer as an archer or if you'd rather use it as support for Red Mage's fire magic. (Assuming you're not just running multiples of some jobs, though multiple Archers wouldn't be my choice if I was doing that.) Also I think my takes are skewed a bit since I most recently played with Struggle for Freedom and that switched things up enough that Archer/Red Mage is less excellent than it is in Zodiac Age. I haven't played regular Zodiac Age in a long while so there's stuff I've forgotten I think. Harrow fucked around with this message at 23:51 on May 5, 2024 |
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May 5, 2024 23:38
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I should play V again.
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May 5, 2024 23:49
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I've still never finished FFV. I have no idea why, there's no good reason, I think I just keep trying to play it at a time when I'm not quite ready for an SNES FF.
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May 5, 2024 23:52
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Rhonne posted:More games with job systems should be like X-2 and give each party member their own unique outfit for every job. They should also come with the Sailor Moon changing sequences too.
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May 5, 2024 23:57
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Horace Kinch posted:They should also come with the Sailor Moon changing sequences too. This is vitally important.
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May 6, 2024 00:27
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X-2 came when I was a teenage boy desperate to prove that he wasn’t gay (and it turns out I’m not, but it was still something insecure teen boys had to think about at the time) and I don’t think I ever really gave it a fair shake, does it hold up? I should try it again, I did really like X
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May 6, 2024 00:30
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clive
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May 6, 2024 00:33
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Ainsley McTree posted:X-2 came when I was a teenage boy desperate to prove that he wasn’t gay (and it turns out I’m not, but it was still something insecure teen boys had to think about at the time) and I don’t think I ever really gave it a fair shake, does it hold up? I should try it again, I did really like X It's a good game but it's a pain in the rear end. It has one of the best ATB systems in the whole series and a pretty good job system implementation as well. But the way the story is presented is real weird. Just how there's a lot of open endedness that leads to things being locked out. It's a game that's designed for multiple playthroughs and that sort of thing annoys me personally.
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May 6, 2024 00:35
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ApplesandOranges posted:Subject change, then. FFV is my favorite in the franchise to play and replay, but IX is my favorite cast and story; and I find myself wishing IX had V's systems more often than I wish V had IX's story. Of course a lot would have to change to make that work, but spiritually at least that's how I feel. EDIT: Another thing that works is having classes as characters, but you can choose which characters you have in your party. FFVI does this, though espers make everyone homogeneous eventually. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 00:41 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 00:35
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Ainsley McTree posted:X-2 came when I was a teenage boy desperate to prove that he wasn’t gay (and it turns out I’m not, but it was still something insecure teen boys had to think about at the time) and I don’t think I ever really gave it a fair shake, does it hold up? I should try it again, I did really like X It's a lot of fun, just please don't try to 100% it. The battle system is probably the best version of the ATB system they've ever done IMO
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May 6, 2024 00:40
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@FFXVI 91% through the main campaign about to AP/EXP grind and try to slowly ween myself off of Ring of Timely Strikes
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May 6, 2024 00:40
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Also this might just be the PR versions (I've never played any other versions), but after years of hearing people call it The Bad One, I didn't expect II to be my favorite of the NES titles.
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May 6, 2024 00:44
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Bad Seafood posted:Also this might just be the PR versions (I've never played any other versions), but after years of hearing people call it The Bad One, I didn't expect II to be my favorite of the NES titles. FF2 is bad in the sense that min/maxxers playing unpatched versions of the game older than I guess either GBA or PSP will be "forced" to perform odd grinding behavior for their numbers! oh dear heavens the regular Battle Theme is the best one, I feel 
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May 6, 2024 00:51
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Bad Seafood posted:Also this might just be the PR versions (I've never played any other versions), but after years of hearing people call it The Bad One, I didn't expect II to be my favorite of the NES titles. Hell yeah, I enjoyed 1-3 all more than 4 post PR remasters. Just nice breezy games you can zoom through.
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May 6, 2024 01:19
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Ainsley McTree posted:X-2 came when I was a teenage boy desperate to prove that he wasn’t gay (and it turns out I’m not, but it was still something insecure teen boys had to think about at the time) and I don’t think I ever really gave it a fair shake, does it hold up? I should try it again, I did really like X Gonna echo that it has the best ATB system ever used in a FF game. It's a solid pick and is basically the FF equivalent of Charlie's Angels. There is a some missable content though so explore areas *thoroughly.*
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May 6, 2024 02:02
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The thing about FFX-2 is that it is an absolute nightmare to 100% even with a detailed guide. There are so many tiny little things that add to completion percentage that you can like walk one screen too far and miss forever. But if you don't care about completion percent (which I recommend, that way lies madness), FFX-2's a blast.
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May 6, 2024 02:40
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Harrow posted:The thing about FFX-2 is that it is an absolute nightmare to 100% even with a detailed guide. There are so many tiny little things that add to completion percentage that you can like walk one screen too far and miss forever. The thing I think always gets left out about this is that it is literally impossible to see everything FFX-2 has in a single playthrough. There is a route split and you're going to not see everything on that route split without doing a NG+, and everything on the route split counts towards percentage. If you're really in it for the story then you should be doing a NG+ anyway at which point it's trivial to get maxed percentage and if you're not then there's no reason whatsoever to go for max %. There's also bonus percentage for things like failing missions or seeing different scenes or whatever. The '100% in one run" thing is basically just a very specific set of options that get 100% but isn't really worth it on a single playthrough instead of just having fun. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 6, 2024 |
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May 6, 2024 02:43
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ApplesandOranges posted:Subject change, then. It feels to me like a lot of people came around on FFXII after The Zodiac Age, and of course one of the key improvements of Zodiac Age was the job system. In the original, XII was arguably even worse than FFVIII at "everyone is indistinguishable" because at least in VIII you had meaningfully different Limit Breaks. Quickenings are stupid and all flash with no mechanical differences between if it's Penelo or Basch doing them. Similarly, FFX's gameplay utterly collapses in enjoyability when you reach the "postgame" and everyone does 99,999 and you only use Wakka the most because Attack Reels does 99,999 better than everyone else. So yeah, give me job systems and set roles. Stats matter in this, too. Sure, with Chrono Cross, it's kinda like materia in that you can give every character (for the most part) any Element, but their stats are so wildly differentiated that it matters, to say nothing of Innates. You don't wanna give Black Elements to a White Innate and you don't wanna give loads of magic elements to a physical powerhouse like Norris instead of a mage like Riddel. In FFVII or FFXII, stats are so similar that you can have Barret or Basch as your mage and it doesn't matter at all. And then of course in FFVIII Junctions means you can build everyone identically with 255 in everything like it's the postgame of FFX. I can only think the justification for "everyone can do everything" is because they want us to be able to use our favorites without issue. Like, Elly from Xenogears is the second most important party member and I like her character a lot. But she's really bad in terms of gameplay unless you know how to build her just right, which of course is not something a first-time player has any clue about. Garnet is objectively worSe than Eiko in every way in FFIX even if sHe's the lead lady of the game. But if everyone plays the same, none of this will matter.
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May 6, 2024 02:46
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ApplesandOranges posted:Subject change, then. Personally I prefer fixed jobs. In FF7/8/X everyone could do everything with enough grinding. FF9 is one of my favorites because I know exactly who is doing what. I can use Vivi to zap enemies, Steiner to whack poo poo with a sword, Quina's blue magic for utility, etc.
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May 6, 2024 04:04
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Cleretic posted:I'm sorry that you seem to ignore or downplay that he literally punches a woman out for arguing with him. Like, that's not 'warping the narrative', that is the literal text of that scene. That's a step too far for me, even if it apparently isn't for you. anyone who hates jack garland must die
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May 6, 2024 04:06
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The ideal path would be fixed jobs but also the ability to swap party members in and out in battle. This is the one thing I think FF7R is really missing.
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May 6, 2024 04:06
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ApplesandOranges posted:Subject change, then. First I'd discard "stats as a limit", not because it can't exist but because FF has never really wanted to address it--Ⅴ was technically there but it was meaningless even before "your VIT character is now a slightly different blend of AGI/INT to the other two mixed AGI/INT characters", Ⅵ everyone but Mog who joins at an unfortunately high level can come within a few points of capping both, so on. Honestly, I think Ⅲ's "HP gains by class at each level" is probably the hardest this goes (which is unfortunate because otherwise jobs are essentially gear-that-mandates-other-gear there.) But beyond that, I think the ideal is something like Ⅴ, or Ⅹ almost did this except for overdrives, where there are fairly mild mechanical pushes to put each character in their "intended" job but they're overpowered by the history of the jobs they have taken. Get rid of the stat fetishism, a character's choices are mostly informed by their personal story that you the player created--Butz may be a slightly better Knight or Samurai and Lenna a slightly better White or Black Mage, but Butz who was a White Mage is a far better Black Mage than Lenna who was a Knight, and she in turn a much better Samurai than that Butz. NikkolasKing posted:Similarly, FFX's gameplay utterly collapses in enjoyability when you reach the "postgame" and everyone does 99,999 and you only use Wakka the most because Attack Reels does 99,999 better than everyone else. This is a real big point as early as Ⅴ, though. The end of "attacks are composed of x hits and capped only by hardware limitations" means that any character who can cap and still has a multihit attack ends up long-term superior--for all that magic is the best choice 99% of the time in Ⅵ, the single best turbo-endgame character is melee build Locke because he has the easiest road to 9999 per hit plus melee can do it 8 times a turn resourceless rather than 5 times a turn while spamming ◍︎Quick.
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May 6, 2024 04:20
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You should be able to change your party composition so that anyone can be in the party, or customize your builds so that anyone can serve any possible role, or neither, but not both. The systems become redundant if they don't carry restrictions.
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May 6, 2024 05:34
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"Everyone gets kinda samey when you're 100 hours into the postgame" is a really weird criticism
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May 6, 2024 05:51
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It is important for characters to have a unique and irreplaceable role in the party, such as being the only member who wears a hood with cat ears sewn on when acting as a white mage.
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May 6, 2024 06:00
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theres good ways and theres bad ways to do both "everyone has a unique special role just for therm" and "everyone can do everything". original 12 is actually a good example of the latter because while everyone learns the same skills, there are other constraints. rare equipment is often not freely available so for example using shell shield to try to cheese yiazmats death strike without needing to cast shell a bunch can only be done by one person, because theres only 1 easily accessible shell shield. espers are also unique though theyre mostly not as useful (zodiark notwithstanding). i dont think you can just compare original ff12 to za and go "oh they clearly made the system a lot better" because za is also many many many times over easier. theyre basically far enough apart to barely even be the same game. i think if you took za style jobs and tried to put them in base ff12 opinons would sour a lot quicker because base ff12 was well balanced around people being able to do everything.
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May 6, 2024 06:07
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