Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I just read this whole thread instead of working for several hours. I like your thread NJAN99, thank you for sharing your quick 6 month build.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Tsk. At least you've got practice for taking the engine out now. Oh well! I'm sure big ford truck engines are cheap as chips in the UK.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

thank you for your suffering for our collective entertainment NJAN99

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

just treat it like a castle and hang lots of tapestries
don't even need to cover the walls with plaster or lime or whatever, just... more tapestries

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

no sir, this is architecture

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

when some aspiring lockpicker is flustered by the e-lock on these fancy doors, they'll just leave and not smash the huge pane of glass right next to the door and walk in to nick stuff
that's definitely how home security works

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

NotJustANumber99 posted:

gently caress I just somehow deleted this whole post and a having to retype it all.

If you're typing a post, and then lose it, SA has a saved draft! You can close the reply window, open a new one (don't use the Quote button to start a post from a quote, I think you have to use the Reply button), and then use these clever buttons in the bottom right:



"Append" will put the saved draft into the text field!

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

e. lol doing this made me double-post

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

dunno bout the UK but around here we put these little foam things between the wall plate and the outlet box, probly prevents most of the moisture from getting in maybe

the foam bits are in the lower half of this pic, they go behind the plastic covers in the upper half
they call it insulation to reduce heat loss though so I'm not 100% on the moisture blocking properties

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

ummmm
so with those two wood corner brace things there I'm assuming this won't be an overhead/roll-down door? And now with the floor sloping from both sides of the drain I'm wondering how you'll have swing open doors without having to cut them really high and leave a gap at the bottom?

have you considered the door situation is what I'm asking I guess

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Goodness.

At my house, the A/C+heater unit has a single return that sucks in air in the hall. The output of the heater and AC is like, one thick tube going one way to the living room and kitchen and front bath, and another going the other way to the bedrooms and back bath. The thick tube splits out to thinner tubes at the ends. It seems weird to run individual tubes all the way to each room, like is that so you can fill a single room with poison gas to kill the spy you invited to stay over for nefarious reasons, or perhaps so you can have all the rooms down one leg of your L shaped house alternate between freezing cold and piping hot, simultaneously?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Sirotan posted:

But this is also a loft (bed)



I slept in something sort of resembling this for most of my childhood. The lack of headroom wasn't a big deal, but the fact the thign wasn't anchored to the wall so it'd easily rock and bang against the wall was. When I was in college, first couple of years after I moved out and was renting a tiny room, I built the loft and just used the upper space for storage and the lower was a desk and shelves, and I had a separate bed.

I still have most of the bits. Ironically, stored in a loft area in my garage lol

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

WhatEvil posted:

I used to think that the US-style of building houses (timber frame, forced-air heating) was poo poo, but since moving to Canada, I've come around to it. It seems much less intimidating to make modifications to your house with timber frame stuff, for one thing. You've got all cavities everywhere that you can cut into and gently caress around with easily. I even cut a hole fully through my house wall to install a catflap and it was really really easy.

One bad thing about the American style though is that they view exterior finishes as like, perishable? IDK they do asphalt roofs here (like roofing felt, except rather than a continuous roll, they're separate tiles/shingles lapped over each other in the same way that slate/clay/whatever tiles are) and it's assumed that you'll just get your whole roof re-covered every 10-15 years which costs like $5-10k depending on how big your roof is. Similarly siding - most houses around where I am at least seem to have vinyl siding which is cheap as far as materials go, but also degrades and looks pretty shite after ~20 years. Again to replace that you're looking at $10-20k if you get a contractor to do it.

I'd say "I don't understand" why they don't just like, make poo poo that'll last... but I think it's just to save builders money in the first instance of building the house.

For any American reading who doesn't understand the alternatives, most houses in the UK have tile roofs (slate or clay) and brick or render exterior wall finishes (though aluminium insulated cladding panels and stuff are getting more common there - particularly for apartments etc.) and it's usually the case that a house gets built out of those things and then... you just don't worry about it ever. If your house is more than like, 80 years old you might have some bricks or mortar that have been damaged by frost but you just get a bloke to come around for a few hundred quid and fix it and then it'll be good for another 30 years or more, probably.

It is partly about cost and partly about the weather.

You can absolutely put a 30 or 45 year roof on an American wood-frame house. If you want to support a heavier tile roof on a house that previously had e.g. asphalt shingles, you may have to make structural upgrades, but you can still do it. In my part of California, you see spanish tile roofs on the more expensive new and older construction homes, and asphalt shingles on the cheaper ones. Having a lighter-weight roof therefore saves you construction costs etc. In other parts of the country, you may want for example a steel roof to deal with snow.

Similarly, exterior finishes are matters of cost, but also durability. My house has a combination of stucco and a little bit of wooden siding. These finishes are are still mostly holding up after 70+ years, but part of that is due to the relatively mild winters we have here, and both still require maintenance. In my case the stucco is also hiding the fact there's no solid sheathing on the exterior (lol!) it's applied directly to a sort of thick black paper with some wires in it, stapled to the wood framing, with angled cross bracing to provide racking resistance (a more modern wood construction nails OSB to the frame to provide that support), so the stucco was very cheap and has no vapor barrier and is part of a system of airflow designed for a house with no AC or central air heating that would just flow air between the attic and crawlspaces right through the walls. It worked OK for 1957 and was very inexpensive.

In some parts of the US you have to deal with annual blizzards or hail or permafrost or high winds and these take a toll on siding and roofs. Choices are made about pitch, material, and even color based on the climate.

Vinyl siding was seen as a huge cost saver in the mid century period, in part because you could order it already colored and avoid having to paint, in part because it is much faster to apply than individual wooden planking, and it has an added advantage of being pretty durable (if it's high quality) and light (less load on the sides of your house) etc. It also catches fire less readily than for example wood shingles, a traditional old-school roofing and siding material. In areas where wildfires are more common, choosing roofing and exterior finish materials that are flame resistant can be vital.

Anyway the tl;dr is that these are not just randomly chosen materials, cheapness is a factor (and having inexpensive housing is incredibly important), but also can be a long-term detriment when it's only "cheap" for the original builder and actually costs more in total cost of ownership over decades, but also weather and other factors can be a big driving force for these choices too.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 20, 2023

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

WhatEvil posted:

Yeah 'cause I'm in Ottawa where we have like a 3.5ft frost line, pretty much everywhere has basements. I've got one with a 10ft ceiling (actually lower because of services - vents for the forced air heating mainly) and it rules. Got some gym equipment in there and the previous owner had a home cinema setup. We've still got the projector and screen he left us but we haven't hooked it up.

Ehhhhh kind of. The weather of the UK isn't that different from large parts of the US. It's not uncommon for pretty much all of the UK to get a period of a week or two where it's about -5°C, and the same for 30+°C in the summer.

The difference is that in most of the UK, in particular in England, the low freeze/thaw cycles are as you said a week or two, whereas in e.g. minnesota it's half the year. It just takes its toll faster is what I'm saying, not so much a difference in quality (usually) but quantity.

Similar thing for heat. Where I live we have months of 90 degree plus weather (32C) every year, not "two weeks" but months and months of it, with many days of 40C. But also earthquakes, so we'd benefit from thick masonry walls to help keep interior spaces cool, right up until they collapsed and killed us lol.

I think one other factor is just that it's a newer country, especially the western half. Just about the only buildings in california that are over 200 years old are adobe missions constructed by the spanish. The great majority of buildings are 20th century. There's not much call to "match the character" of some historic village with 17th century stone and brick structures, instead it's "match the character" of victorian/edwardian fancy houses in the oldest neighborhoods, or mid-century tract homes. On the east coast there's some older stuff, but not massively. A lot of our houses are built on new plots (what you guys would call "estate homes" I believe), filling in farm fields and green space, whereas in the UK I think there's more push to infill and densify existing towns and cities rather than lots of open countryside to claim and gently caress up with ugly rear end 500 unit townhomes.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

sealing the interior doors so when the power goes out anyone sleeping in one just asphyxiates is an elite tier evil genus move

I bet your incredibly deep and powerful foundation is strong enough for you to install a shark tank below the table in the great hall although that will mess with the heated floors probably

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

eel pit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNwoEfcpQuk

it's got grabs in

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

can I derail your thread to discuss gasoline/petrol? because us, canada, and UK do not calculate "octane" the same (and also "high grade" is not actually that, it's "less explosive" which is needed for high compression engines so they don't have premature detonation and blow up, it's not "better gas." In a sense, it's "worse gas." Calling it "premium" was a genius marketing move to convince idiots to put the wrong fuel int their cars and get worse performance as a result lol)

quote:

If a fuel is 98 RON then it will be 93 PON -> 93 PUMP
If a fuel is 95 RON and 87 MON then it will be 91 PON -> 91 PUMP
https://www.etuners.gr/fuel/

also when you buy less of something it usually costs more per weight then when you buy more of it, that should not be hard to understand either lol

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

normally ceiling joists rafters are load bearing, but they mean bearing the load above them, not the load below them, like a chandelier made of walls

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

You're out of your goddamn mind, just absolutely bonkers. individually controlling every light in the ceiling of a room, with 36 lights in it, via the power isntead of using smart bulbs, even though the home is wired with ten thousand miles of ethernet cable, individual runs for every socket (and more sockets than a cubical farm at a tech company) because nobody told you what an ethernet switch is

notjustanumber99 personally consuming ten percent of the UK's copper production in one go

just wild as hell

I mean I appreciate it, especially your dedication to documenting everything which I genuinely love, I write documentation for a living and it warms the cockles it really really does

but dear god

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

put some kind of grille or screen on the end of the pipe that goes to the pond, unless you're excited about the idea of all manner of wildlife colonizing your drainpipe during the summer and then perhaps dying in it and clogging it with their corpses and detritus in the winter

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I can't wait to see the control panel for the fifty individually settable/dimmable lights in the living room. You think he's cheaping out? If a thief stripped all the copper from his house, they'd be able to retire in comfort on the recycling money. Also, recall the expense spent on the front door.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

draw.io is not too shabby at diagrams, and fairly intuitive. You can wind up with too many layers and grabbing things to move them up and down layers can start to get annoying, but hell, it's free. It can export to .svg, .png, whatever, and you can import icon libraries

One of the nice features is if you have lines attached to a shape and you move the shape, the lines follow it/auto-update so you can shift poo poo around without having to reconnect everything.

Here's a library of ECE icons for draw.io: https://github.com/NicklasVraa/Draw-io-ECE

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

do yourself a favor and run a hot water line (and electric) to the toilet, so you can upgrade to a smart toilet & warm water bidet in the future

trust me, :females: appreciate a lad who's got a fancy bidet

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Hadlock posted:

Yeah digging the early 90s IBM PC color scheme in the bathroom. Great filter, anyone who agrees to put up with that every morning is sure to never leave you

is there a chance you weren't around HCH three or four years ago and don't get the reference?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

MetaJew posted:

You don't need a hot water tap. All of the good bidet/washlet seats have a built in water heater of some sort. You just need a cold water line.

Well sure, then you need an outlet and a cord, which I also suggested.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

with all that underfloor heating piping what if it ran right up into the toilet and gave you a warm seat too, I bet you could engineer your own cozy toilet design

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

It's OK. The walls are reinforced by miles of pre-stressed wires and stiffened with giant conduits. The real concern is anchoring the grab bars to the foam, one good yank and they'll just come off with a comical puffball of powdery fluff attached to each end.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I'm smashing the poo poo out of that like button

e. in my home where backer boards are attached to wooden studs we'd use screws, I assume you're trying to stick them using some sort of glue that won't stick to the weird ultralight foam brick things?

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jul 11, 2023

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I assume the historical society that insisted on rare mismatched roofing tiles would never countenance the horrors of modernity that are rooftop solar panels

anyway underground heat storage just requires thermal mass, and I know where NJAN99 has like thirty pillars of thermal mass driven into the ground, just run water pipes down each one right, how hard could it be

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

i'm sure NJAN99 will be coding his smart house himself, surely

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

or perhaps he'll hire a python programmer off ebay

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

yeah that's basically a design flaw. This style door:

was traditionally built with floating panels, like this:


The panels are the wide bits of wood that will expand and contract the most with moisture changes, and since they "float" e.g. are not nailed or screwed or glued in, they can do that without cracking the frame apart. They could still split the paint, but that was acceptable compared to destroying the door.

NNJAN99's door having all those vertical slats made of real wood basically guarantees that with moisture changes they're going to shift and separate, but the cracks will be way more visible because the pieces don't slot into each other, they're just like... adjacent.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 24, 2023

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

WhatEvil posted:

Nah it's likely that the panel will still be a panel, in that it'll be a separate piece of wood that'll sit into a rebate, i.e. the panel will slot into the stile - you shouldn't be able to ever see daylight through a door like that. I think it's partially that doors like that would more usually be internal and/or would be either oiled or unfinished. The parts would be oiled before the door was put together (or at least before the panel was put in - if it's a beaded/nailed panel rather than a built-in panel). If it's oiled before assembly and the panel swells/shrinks you won't notice it because the parts will just slide past each other. Often these days with painted finishes, the door is only painted after assembly, and that's when you see the cracking of the paint finish. It can also happen to some extent even if you do paint the components before assembly 'cause modern paints will sort of cause two contacting painted surfaces to stick together, and it can still look like poo poo if a panel and door parts move separately.

I've worked for a timber window/door manufacturer for ~18 years and it's basically just accepted that if you have a timber panel within a door you're gonna get some amount of differential movement between the pieces and have to do some refinishing. Also I was in charge of site visits for remedials for about 5 years so went out and saw tons of doors and windows etc. that had been installed anywhere from a few weeks to ~10 years (typically on the latter ones, our warrantees had run out but it was where the customer had e.g. bought some windows from us, then some years later also bought a conservatory).

Generally, from what I've seen, after a door has been installed and acclimatised to its surroundings for a while, they won't move much after that. Usually they settle down after going through their first winter>summer or summer>winter cycle.

That's good to know, that they're not just planks butted against each other, but the beauty of the floating panel is that the piece that expands and contracts does not actually press against adjacent pieces and while paint may split, there's no visible gap. It really looks like NJAN99's door has pieces that are flush and leave a visible dark gap when they contract after expanding. Even if it's not structurally unsound, I think that's poor design. Even if the gap gets painted after stabilizing it'd still be a visible gap unless you fill it with something.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I have lived in england back in 88-91 and visited a couple times in the last couple decades and as far as I can tell, the whole country still has millions of door locks that involve comically large old-timey keys with round shanks and like, two fat square bits hanging off of it, and everyone just pretends like this is normal and fine

like you are like "hullo I'm checking in to this B&B" and they say "lovely, tea is at five, elevenses is at half eight, you'll be staying in the Partridge Room" and then they hand you this

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

no, lol I see your error there, english is a funny old language eh?

it's when is the wrong plasterer arriving

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

today I learned that in england, electrics involve "glands"

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

NotJustANumber99 posted:

Plastering is poo poo. We should have something else to finish off the insides of houses with,

We do.
wood


concrete


brick steel and glass


all of these are expensive, the hard surfaces echo more, and of course it's helpful to plan from the beginning. But we use plaster (or for us americans, drywall) because it's cheap, fire resistant, takes paint easily, relatively easy to repair, and did I mention cheap?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

oh yeah also

NotJustANumber99 posted:

I've done it before, and yeah lots of sanding involved then you stand back when it's all finished and painted with the sun or a down light on it. And it looks poo poo.

this is why you put furniture and pictures and lamps and stuff against the wall, to hide the fact that your massive slab of plastered wall isn't uniform and perfect. People also apply texture which helps with that too.

Dysgenesis posted:

I'm sure this was covered months ago buy why the obsession about the house being airtight?

It makes a lot of sense to spend an extra year of effort and a hundred thousand quids making the house maximum airtight insulated etc. to save $18/mo on energy costs

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Western Red Cedar is Thuja plicata, which is not a true cedar tree (genus Cedrus) but is named as such because the wood has that cedar smell and a reddish look to it as well as being soft and having similar working characteristics. Giving totally different trees the same name of their wood is a very common and longstanding practice in the lumber industry - the worst offender is "mahogany" but there's several other situations like this. WRC looks different colors in canada vs. britain because of different minerals in the soil and different growing conditions for the tree. How knotty the wood is is grade, which is or at least should be independent from the name and location of the wood: e.g. you'd pay more per board foot for "clear" planks than for knotty, cracked, warped, etc. planks of any species, normally. But maybe clear british western red cedar just isn't available for any price? Anyway it should be obvious why imported wood costs more than local stuff.

If you're doing cladding though, you probably don't give a poo poo about knots. They add character. But you should care about twisty boards that will be a ball ache to nail to the walls, and all boards cup or twist or both at least a little but if its bad you can wind up with a load of wood you can't really use. So I'd be very picky and specific and if you possibly can, visually inspect and choose your purchases rather than just order a load to arrive shipped to you that you have to pay for sight unseen.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Aug 3, 2023

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

NotJustANumber99 posted:

Very interesting, thanks. Its a shame you didn't predict I would do this and tell me before I bought it though!

Yeah as you say they rate the canadian stuff on a sliding scale but the british stuff is just always knotty stuff so they don't even bother.

Its just going to turn up and I'll have to deal with it then. I've gone for the biggest thickest grade they offered to hopefully reduce how warpy twisty poo poo it will be.

I thought I already said this? but maybe not? I stopped in at the timber merchant other day in town and explained my setup/requirements.

They were confused really and said i was doing something weird. OK standard. They said a year ago, or just over they wold have recommended the obvious decent quality and priced cladding for me. Siberian Larch.

But theres, apparently, been a bit of an issue getting that since. So we can't buy it and the russians won't sell it to us, but they will sell it to China who will resell it to us. Either the extra faff and travel or just a gently caress you means its now 3 times the price. Lol

Warpiness has to do with how the wood has been sawn, and how straight the tree was, and whether it had stresses during growth that get locked into the wood. Like if a tree is subject to a lot of wind it'll grow thicker rings on one side than the other, to help prop itself up, and then you slice across those rings and it twists. Also wood basically just will twist regardless sometimes.

What thicker stuff will get you though is being less prone to splitting when you drive a nail or screw through it. It'll also be heavier obviously. And they're more likely to be milling the thickest stuff from bigger more true trees so mayyybe you'll get less warpage. Really though if you want totally straight planks you get kiln-dried wood and pick through it for the straight bits and then don't cut those at all because any time you cut through the fibers in a plank of wood you may unlock the ghost of Chubby Checker.

Good luck!

Note: as an amateur wood butcher I have developed a sort of PTSD, as we all do, with regards to our chosen medium. Maybe it'll all be fine.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply