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Since Behind the Bastards leaned so heavily on Ringmaster for their narrative they share a lot of really odd choices, the most glaring of which is that they spend so much time on Vince's early days and (for wrestling fans) well known stories about loving over the territories and various scandals of the 80s and 90s that they just sort of run out of space/interest in the Attitude Era. Like literally, the last numbered chapter of Ringmaster ends in 1999 with the reveal of the Higher Power. There's a "coda" that covers 1999 to present that runs about the same length as the examination of Vince and Linda buying the Cape Cod Coliseum in the late 1970s, which goes on for a long time because the author thinks it's really relevant how the McMahons agitated at city council meetings to get a liquor license and eventually abandoned the venue when it stopped being profitable, and how this is a skeleton key to how they used politics and capitalism to build their empire. The book all but says "I lost interest in wrestling in high school, so obviously I'm going to focus on the Montreal Screwjob and Owen Hart and ECW and kind of gloss over the next two decades", which is an odd choice. And then BTB takes it a step further to do like a five minute chunk on Pat Patterson jerking off to Andre the Giant's big feet.
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Jan 29, 2024 20:40
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sleep with the vicious posted:0 discussion of Grant on today's WOR - in the wrestling news world this story is over, which is gross to me, a normal person January 26, 2024: Janel Grant's lawsuit against Vince McMahon January 28, 2024: The resignation of Vince McMahon, Royal Rumble, more January 30, 2024: McMahon lawsuit, media reaction, CM Punk and Kevin Owens injuries, RAW February 1, 2024: Vince McMahon questions, RANKINGS RETURN, Dynamite and NXT February 2, 2024: The latest on the lawsuit against Vince McMahon and WWE February 5, 2024: Rock and Roman Reigns, Stardom shake-up, Vengeance Day, tons of news (ft. some discussion of Janel Grant) February 6, 2024: Rock/Cody/Roman angle, Thursday press event, Stardom update, RAW report I am not aware of any new news about the lawsuit between yesterday morning and this morning, so it seems premature to say "this story is over".
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Feb 6, 2024 16:21
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MassRafTer posted:No one is talking on the record but other outlets had minor updates and talked to talent and major publications are working on actual stories. If Dave Meltzer can't get more out of talent or employees than SRS, that's sad. Given that this thread dedicated to the topic seemed to devolve into people posting their own versions of the Wu-Tang torture skit in lieu of any actual new information over the weekend, I'm not quite ready to declare that Shave Seltzer has completely dropped the story due to not talking about it on a podcast for nearly 48 hours, but if people want to just ask questions that's their right.
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Feb 6, 2024 17:00
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MassRafTer posted:Given Dave has completely dropped the ball on these stories in the past it is perfectly fair to ask if he is dropping the ball on these stories now. More relevant, he constantly brags about how he is a Hall of Fame Award Winning Journalist, if he can't break news on this, maybe he should brag less and cultivate sources more. Other sources had updates, so it is not a case of there being nothing to talk about.
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Feb 6, 2024 17:15
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MassRafTer posted:And again, you are ignoring that Dave Meltzer constantly brags about how he is a Hall of Fame reporter and how a dead guy said he was the best to ever do it. He should be able to get something out of talent. Has there been a talent meeting yet? Who are the people involved talent were murmuring they would start naming last week if the names didn't come out. Is Brock still being paid? Is Vince still on a talent contract? I don't think that is does, but I have neither the belief nor desire required to defend Dave Meltzer as a perfect person, and I don't think I need to in order to claim that. I also know that the Wrestling Observer newsletter had coverage of things that were not Chris Benoit in the weeks after the murders, so the logical conclusion there is either that he was lying about feeling like the Benoit story dominated his life, or that there can be a story that you feel takes over your life/the narrative/the industry while not literally being the only thing anyone ever talks about ever for weeks/months, and to discuss anything that is not the Important Story is showing that you don't think it's important. There are hundreds of people posting in this very subforum about non-Vince wrestling stories, is that a bad look because they're getting more excited talking about Deadlock or Stardom or old WCW than this very important story? I'm also not sure if Meltzer's main job is to "break stories", dividing everything into SCOOPS and YOUTUBERS seems wildly reductive. Journalism exists outside of scoops. I have taken this way outside of the more important topic the thread is actually about, and my intention in posting was not to discuss the merits of Dave Meltzer as a journalist as much to counter the narrative that one podcast* not being about Vince McMahon means "the story is dead" and Vince is getting away with everything and all is lost and etc. * I have listened actually listened to this morning's podcast since posting earlier and the Vince McMahon lawsuit is discussed, no breaking news per se but the point that whatever is going on with Wrestlemania is a 'win' for WWE since people aren't talking abut Vince is brought up repeatedly while discussing Wrestlemania, and the Q&A is a lot of (mostly repeated topics already discussed) about Vince McMahon.
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Feb 6, 2024 21:33
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I think there's a decent amount of "not really understanding how wrestling works" in the general public that I can see negatively effecting the ability to report on something involving power dynamics, consent, kayfabe, etc. Admitting that we (or at least I) have no idea who was coming to the NYT or what stories they had to tell, I assume most reporters/human beings would be able to look at the Janel Grant or Rita Chatterton or the most severe parts of the Ashley Massaro stories and realize those are objectively terrible, criminal actions. I don't know how much of the stuff being brought to mainstream sources was on that level, and even then I understand that a lot of people outside of wrestling have a bias along the lines of "well they're a trash business based on lying to people, I'm going to be very suspicious and dismissive of their outlandish stories" that is not at all justifiable or right but exists, and likely played a role here too. But taking it outside of the realm of cut and dry Sex Crimes, a lot of reasonably self-aware and intelligent people don't "get" wrestling, especially the Vince McMahon brand of wrestling that had an effective monopoly for decades. I have friends and family members who will ask me about things that sort of break out into the greater pop culture landscape, and the amount of questions I've been asked over the years along the lines of: "If people are booing John Cena so much, why is he the top star? Or at least shouldn't he be a bad guy?" "If [CM Punk/Daniel Bryan/Rey Mysterio/etc/] is so popular, wouldn't a company want to take advantage of that and use them as much as possible, it doesn't make any sense to punish people for being popular." "If [person] was so uncomfortable saying that controversial thing, why didn't they just refuse to do it?" "Everything in wrestling is fake/scripted, so is that person's relative really dead? REALLY? Well, they got the okay to mention it, right?" "Those people aren't really married, right? Why would they do a fake break-up angle then?" "If this person wasn't a star athlete and trained in some tiny little place other than WWE, can they really be THAT good? Shouldn't an ex-NFL guy who got trained by the #1 company in the world be better?" Extend this to some of the poo poo people are bringing up (like every weird gross Mr. McMahon skit going back decades, or forbidding Massaro from training with na indie) and even if the reporters were not outright saying they were making things up and I could see how being peppered with questions like these would make the women leery of coming forward on top of the general concerns of being targeted as a woman speaking out. It's not really like someone whistleblowing at NASA, because of the theater/blurring reality aspect of it. Maybe closer to having reporters who are not familiar with high level finance/corporate governance looking at [insert big finance scandal here] and going "well I mean, why wouldn't he be able to sell his stock before a big recall happened? And what's a Sore Bane Oxley?" and the corporate whistleblower slowly backing away. Not trying to excuse the NYT reporter or anyone else, but one could argue Vince McMahon flourished (and chose some of his specific venues of abuse) specifically because it was hard to actually explain outside of the Wrestling Bubble, or maybe on a greater level a Performance Bubble? Look at how many stand-up comedians have been outed as predators and creeps, that's one of the few other fields where a fictional/"not really me" version of a person exists alongside a "real" person with the exact same name. And even then there were a lot of echoes of the Vince McMahon stuff of "oh well yeah he said/did some stuff As His Character, but surely that has nothing to do with the real person in real life!" Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Feb 11, 2024 |
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Feb 11, 2024 18:31
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Suplex Liberace posted:if the guy with the 90mile high forehead is getting into it everyone was Barrios was co-President of WWE alongside Michelle Wilson from 2008 to 2020 and I don't think traveled/was backstage very much at all. Which is not to say that he didn't see/do some poo poo in Connecticut. Carrano was around even longer (identified in a 2005 WON as "a close ally of John Laurinaitis" who had been recently promoted), and by 2012-2013 (the first time Laurinatitis got demoted for harassing a woman and resulting in a payoff/NDA) he became head of talent relations and an on-air "talent relations executive" on Total Divas. His name came up a lot in CM Punk's lawsuit-causing podcast, and mostly got mentioned in the same way that any head of talent relations gets complained about (everyone who got released during his tenure was sure it was him, not Vince or HHH who disliked him). Though he was in the news briefly after being accused of telling Paige and Alberto del Rio they had to stop dating, and later Miro implied that Carrano was trying to get him off of Total Divas for unclear reasons. He finally got fired a few years ago, whether as a scapegoat or not, as being the guy who sent Mickie James (and several other women) trash bags full of their gear and belongings after they got released. WWE then replaced him with Laurinaitis again.
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Feb 27, 2024 02:50
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rotinaj posted:Triple h still did the internal investigation with Stephanie about Vince and cleared Vince to return, right? quote:As previously announced, a Special Committee of independent members of the Company’s Board of Directors (the “Special Committee”) was formed to investigate alleged misconduct by the Company’s former Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Vincent K. McMahon. Mr. McMahon resigned from all positions held with the Company on July 22, 2022 but remains a stockholder with a controlling interest. Although the Special Committee investigation is now complete, the Company has received, and may receive in the future, regulatory, investigative and enforcement inquiries, subpoenas or demands arising from, related to, or in connection with these matters. Then the following things took place last year: December 2022: Vince McMahon privately asks to be brought back onto the board. December 27, 2022: The WWE Board unanimously votes not to bring him back. December 31, 2022: Vince McMahon issues a press release saying as controlling shareholder, he is adding himself, George Barrios, and Michelle Wilson back onto the board. January 6, 2023: WWE announces McMahon, Barrios, and Wilson are back, three other people are fired, and two people resigned. January 10, 2023: The new board unanimously votes in Vince as the chairman. Also January 10, 2023: Stephanie McMahon steps down and leaves the board. It is worth noting that at no point in this does Triple H step down/leave the board, which Stephane did (twice!) but none of this was anyone in the company overly "clearing" Vince or wanting him back on the board, and literally everyone on the board voted against him rejoining it before he effectively forced himself back onto it.
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Mar 12, 2024 19:57
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flashy_mcflash posted:Bradshaw used to do it on behalf of Vince. Doesn't seem like a huge leap that he'd (or other 'locker room leaders') enlist others to do it too. Ultimate responsibility still falls on Gulak for his actions regardless of the circumstances, but the idea someone in WWE instructed/dared Gulak into doing does not seem at all implausible.
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Apr 3, 2024 14:52
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