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AARO posted:You know the problem with rec drugs is they eventually gently caress up your life and cause psychosis. Otherwise this would be the ultimate cure all. The vast majority of recreational drugs do not do this.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:25
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Sergg posted:The vast majority of recreational drugs do not do this. The good ones do.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:26
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Matter of fact, Ketamine is one of the most useful drugs for treating depression that cannot be treated with anything else, and it has an extremely long-lasting effect (1-2 weeks after one dose).
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Jun 4, 2016 21:28
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AARO posted:The good ones do. Marijuana, LSD, and psilocybin mushrooms are the safest chemicals you can put in your body with regards to addictive potential, drug toxicity, and long-term side effects.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:30
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AARO posted:Thank you for this post. This is exactly the type of post I was looking for. I'm not being sarcastic. I just wanted someone to admit that these pills really aren't that great and psychiatric science is in its infancy. Then what do you propose to make psychiatric science better?
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Jun 4, 2016 21:31
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psychiatric science is not bad, the OP's issue is with psychiatric and broader mental health practice which is poo poo
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Jun 4, 2016 21:33
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The Aardvark posted:Then what do you propose to make psychiatric science better? How the hell should I know? I'm just some random idiot goon.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:36
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Somethingawful was magnitudes more effective at curing my depression than anti-depressants. It might have even caused less side effects as well!
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Jun 4, 2016 21:46
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Oh hey, this actually isn't GBS. Sorry, I got confused.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:49
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T8R posted:Somethingawful was magnitudes more effective at curing my depression than anti-depressants. It might have even caused less side effects as well! AARO fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 21:49
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You're mostly correct OP. The problem is anti-depressants are being prescribed too liberally by doctors often not trained in mental health, sometimes only after a quick 15 minute talk with the patient. Too many times you meet a patient on medication where even a simple short or medium term therapy would do wonders because, lo and behold, if you spend some actual time with the patient and trying to figure out the source of his or her problems, some obvious self-destructive behavioral patterns (including thinking) often emerges. Preferably everyone prescribing those pills should have some form of therapeutic training to increase their understanding of these sorts of problems, enhancing their ability to determine what kind of help is best for that particular individual (which in some case will be medication).
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Jun 4, 2016 21:57
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Gazpacho posted:psychiatric science is not bad, the OP's issue is with psychiatric and broader mental health practice which is poo poo Also the dearth of research on the effect of psychotropic medication on children and adolescents, which is pretty alarming given how often they are prescribed amphetamines, antipsychotics and SSRIs. One of the issues is that there simply aren't enough child psychiatrists. It's a notoriously low-paid specialty, but even if it paid more I'm not sure how many more psychiatrists would go that route.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:20
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Oh dang I didn't realize, are my SNRIs ok for me to keep taking and live a semi-functional life or is that a sham too?
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Jun 4, 2016 22:28
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AARO posted:I don't care if you're being serious or not. If they actually did what they're purported to do they'd be worth every penny. I tried celexa on a whim in college and it gave me killer panic attacks. So no $$RIs for me anymore.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:30
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Emils katt posted:You're mostly correct OP. The problem is anti-depressants are being prescribed too liberally by doctors often not trained in mental health, sometimes only after a quick 15 minute talk with the patient. Too many times you meet a patient on medication where even a simple short or medium term therapy would do wonders because, lo and behold, if you spend some actual time with the patient and trying to figure out the source of his or her problems, some obvious self-destructive behavioral patterns (including thinking) often emerges. Preferably everyone prescribing those pills should have some form of therapeutic training to increase their understanding of these sorts of problems, enhancing their ability to determine what kind of help is best for that particular individual (which in some case will be medication). Then there's the loosey-goosey nature of diagnosis itself, and the fact that usually insurance won't cover therapy or medication without a diagnosis. It's as if medical billing as applied to psychiatry was set up by people who thought MH diagnosis had objective meaning.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:36
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Try taking care of a paranoid schizophrenic patient when they aren't on meds and see how fun that is. Why yes, I DO love it when a dude flies into a rage and smashes up the facility with a wooden board and threatens to murder the staff because of the 'hidden microphones'.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:54
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Where did I criticize antipsychotics? Some people need antipsychotic drugs. But they are probably given out too often as well. These drugs actually shrink the size of the patients brain so they shouldn't be given out willy nilly. I think a better approach would be to talk to the schizophrenic about the hidden microphones. Why do these microphones matter? Even if they are real how can it hurt them that someone is listening to what they are saying. If they are trying to hide some criminal details of their lives then that is what should be addressed. Whether or not the hidden microphones exist isn't the real issue. It's about trying to get them to live in their reality without the feeling of distress. Like if they say "The water is poisoned and only I know about it". Don't say "No it isn't poisoned!" Say "Ok, we'll get you some bottled water so that you can avoid this." That is true therapy. Helping people cope with their own reality. AARO fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 22:57
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Sergg posted:Try taking care of a paranoid schizophrenic patient when they aren't on meds and see how fun that is. Why yes, I DO love it when a dude flies into a rage and smashes up the facility with a wooden board and threatens to murder the staff because of the 'hidden microphones'. I have, I still have the same concerns about clinical diagnosis and med management though.
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Jun 4, 2016 22:58
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AARO posted:I think a better approach would be to talk to the schizophrenic about the hidden microphones. Why do these microphones matter? Even if they are real how can it hurt them that someone is listening to what they are saying. If they are trying to hide some criminal details of their lives then that is what should be addressed. Whether or not the hidden microphones exist isn't the real issue. It's about trying to get them to live in their reality without the feeling of distress. Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 23:19
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Gazpacho posted:Please don't try this at home, validating crazies has a very poor track record of helping them. "A primary treatment goal during the stable phase is to enable the patient to continue the recovery process and to achieve the goals of improved functioning and quality of life. To the degree to which active positive symptoms impair functional capacity, medications that reduce positive symptoms may improve functioning. However, research indicates consistently that positive symptoms show a low correspondence with functional impairments among patients with schizophrenia (190). Rather, it is the negative symptoms and cognitive impairments that are more predictive of functional impairment (191)." From the 2004 APA Guidelines on treating schizophrenia.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:25
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Can you bold the part of that that says "help schizophrenics by agreeing with them that the lizard people are real"?
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Jun 4, 2016 23:29
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Gazpacho posted:Can you bold the part of that that says "help schizophrenics by agreeing with them that the lizard people are real"? The actual guidelines for care only care about positive symptoms, namely hallucinations and delusions, to the extent that these are functional impairments. Clinical evidence shows that they are only loosely correlated with functional impairment. In addition, the care guidelines emphasize the need for a therapeutic alliance between the psychatrist and patient. Now, this requires reading and you have undoubtedly sworn a dread and terrible oath not to read things on pain of death, but in conclusion, psychiatrists are discouraged from emphasizing hallucinations or delusions are unreal until the patient comes to that conclusion on their own, except where these impair the ability of the patient to live independently. This is because psychiatrists are doctors rather than members of the Ministry of Love.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:33
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AARO posted:Where did I criticize antipsychotics? There's a gigantic distance between the best practice of meeting a patient where they are at and enabling their illness. When your "own reality" involves hidden microphones and poisoned water conspiracies, the objective of any mental health professional worth a poo poo really ought to be an ultimate reconciliation of one's "own reality" (I.e., delusions) with actual, tangible reality.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:38
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I don't believe that your sources say that it should be a tactic of therapy to actively affirm a patient's delusions, but if they do say that, then they are bad.
Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 23:41
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Gazpacho posted:I don't believe that your sources say that it should be a tactic of therapy to actively affirm a patient's delusions, but if they do say that, then they are bad. I'm glad that you're such an intellectual titan that you stand firmly convinced that the psychiatrist should start pummeling the recalcitrant schizophrenic with their fists to exorcise the hallucinations, and feel no need to consider any evidence to the contrary, code jockey.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:49
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Brainiac Five posted:I'm glad that you're such an intellectual titan that you stand firmly convinced that the psychiatrist should start pummeling the recalcitrant schizophrenic with their fists to exorcise the hallucinations, and feel no need to consider any evidence to the contrary, code jockey.
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Jun 4, 2016 23:55
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Don't worry, we are getting better at it. Here try this technique out, it's been FDA approved for almost a decade.*** http://psicorienta.com/resources/reviewTMS.pdf *** its also expensive as poo poo. 10k per visit IIRC.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:01
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AARO posted:These drugs actually shrink the size of the patients brain Schizophrenia shrinks the size of a patient's brain, in addition to messing up their dopamine regulation. I have heard no evidence that psych meds cause brain shrinkage but I have read plenty of scientific papers on how schizophrenia does it.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:03
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Gazpacho posted:I'm sorry that you are so incompetent at perceiving the difference between "active affirmation" and "passive acceptance" that you feel compelled to use plat powers to win this silly argument. Huh, so you're willing to split hairs over this difference, in order to win this argument, while imputing your desires onto me, because you are cowardly.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:13
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My two bits: SSRIs for *anxiety* are weird fuckers and anyone prescribed them should make a real careful evaluation of their empirical effects. For some people they are a miracle treatment, for some other people they are somewhere between useless and a seizure risk. Brain drugs are hard.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:20
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GreyjoyBastard posted:My two bits: SSRIs for *anxiety* are weird fuckers and anyone prescribed them should make a real careful evaluation of their empirical effects. For some people they are a miracle treatment, for some other people they are somewhere between useless and a seizure risk. Benzos can ruin lives way harder, so trying pretty much anything else seems like a better idea if possible.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:22
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AARO posted:The good ones do. Have you considered that your recreational drug abuse is why SSRIs aren't helping your sadbrains?
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Jun 5, 2016 00:28
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Brainiac Five posted:Huh, so you're willing to split hairs over this difference, in order to win this argument, while imputing your desires onto me, because you are cowardly. *writes "aggressive" in notebook*
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Jun 5, 2016 01:28
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Sergg posted:Schizophrenia shrinks the size of a patient's brain, in addition to messing up their dopamine regulation. I have heard no evidence that psych meds cause brain shrinkage but I have read plenty of scientific papers on how schizophrenia does it. quote:Taken together, these studies suggest that antipsychotics may contribute to early gray matter loss and, later in the course of treatment, to white matter loss. These effects may be dose-related and probably are not prevented by the use of second-generation agents. This argues for minimizing antipsychotic exposure both acutely and long-term. However, we are left with the additional dilemma that a longer duration of untreated psychosis (DUP) may also be neurotoxic. Longer DUP has been associated with poorer symptomatic and functional outcomes7 as well as brain volume loss.8 Studies of DUP have their own methodological limitations and controversies, but they should serve to warn us that the rapid control of psychosis may also be important. - See more at: http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/antipsychotics-and-shrinking-brain#sthash.bokwHK1F.dpuf
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Jun 5, 2016 05:53
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This is a loving trainwreck.
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Jun 5, 2016 06:21
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Peven Stan posted:I tried celexa on a whim in college and it gave me killer panic attacks. this sentence is so good. so good
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Jun 5, 2016 07:06
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