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magnavox space odyssey posted:I am still here and was planning on asking that guy how this differs from capitalism commodifying all culture (other than it not being fair to the original black artists). It's not necessarily about profit. The best way, I think, to really get a grasp on cultural appropriation is to check out the book "The Beauty of the Primitive: Shamanism in the Western Imagination" by Andrei Znamenski and see it in action. Cultural appropriation also undercuts the ability of the people of that culture to self-define it. If you are in most countries, for example, and see a notice about a "Sufi" group, it's mostly gonna be a suburban person yammering about crystals and reiki and weed. They will not know what salat is (lol), they won't give zakat, if they are lucky they might be able to remember the name Ali but won't know why he is significant and definitely won't be able to trace their practices back to him. But those white suburban people have more cultural power than the actual Sufi, so eventually their definition of Sufism becomes the norm and actual Sufism from cultures that practice it becomes the extreme minority. In some cases (like the examples from the Znamenski book), this eventually leads to suppression of the original cultural practices and re-introduction of the suburban version at a later time, robbing a group of their culture and then replacing it with the hippy version.
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May 13, 2018 08:08
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Mormon Star Wars posted:It's not necessarily about profit. The best way, I think, to really get a grasp on cultural appropriation is to check out the book "The Beauty of the Primitive: Shamanism in the Western Imagination" by Andrei Znamenski and see it in action. With the example of Sufism, does it though? Whether or not suburbanite Americans gently caress up the original meaning and concepts of Sufism it still exists within almost the entire Muslim world where its a much bigger and more influential thing than the western hippies with crystals interpretation. Alongside that the original meaning can still be upheld by Muslims in the western world, and indeed has, with or without the garbled westernized versions existing there too.
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May 13, 2018 18:25
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refusing to challenge others and instead eat their poo poo isnt being respectful, its being a shameful domesticated animal like if some asian dude sees my wicked kanji tattoo that totally says “honor” and tells me its racist cultural appropriation i probably would ignore him because its not worth the effort or hassle of engaging, not because he might have a point or because i owe him a god drat thing. of course if someone is being aggressive or persistent youll have to deal with them, but again, not because you have any obligation toward them i think some people are confused about whats intrinsically the right thing to do versus whats good for social politeness and avoiding dealing with idiot bullshit, because they are not necessarily the same thing
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May 13, 2018 18:33
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Wheeee posted:refusing to challenge others and instead eat their poo poo isnt being respectful, its being a shameful domesticated animal We are domesticated animals, though?
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May 13, 2018 18:41
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yep doesnt make it mentally healthy when combined with the power structures of modern liberal capitalism tho
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May 13, 2018 19:14
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probably this op: https://twitter.com/MothershipSG/status/992654778097270784
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May 13, 2018 19:24
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I don't like terms used for actual oppression, mostly done by people with lots of power and not people you meet every day, turned into a funny little bingo game for online people to use to score points and where action taken to challenge oppressors is irrelevant.
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May 13, 2018 19:32
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:probably this op: lol
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May 13, 2018 20:26
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so is there like a mediterranean D&D somewhere where a bunch of greeks and turks and levantines all argue about who's the most racist for stealing gyros/doners/shawarma from whoever or is this poo poo some uniquely american lib thing
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May 13, 2018 20:27
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ur in my world now posted:so is there like a mediterranean D&D somewhere where a bunch of greeks and turks and levantines all argue about who's the most racist for stealing gyros/doners/shawarma from whoever or is this poo poo some uniquely american lib thing people do that all over the world, except in other countries it's the crazed nationalists doing it
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May 13, 2018 20:59
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:probably this op: thats loving weird Al they're stealing your art and selling it
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May 13, 2018 21:01
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hackbunny posted:We are domesticated animals, though?
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May 13, 2018 22:09
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isn't the opposite of that fundamentalism driven by a rejection of the various syncretisms and custom-friendly rulings that make up religions?
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May 13, 2018 22:31
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khwarezm posted:With the example of Sufism, does it though? Whether or not suburbanite Americans gently caress up the original meaning and concepts of Sufism it still exists within almost the entire Muslim world where its a much bigger and more influential thing than the western hippies with crystals interpretation. Alongside that the original meaning can still be upheld by Muslims in the western world, and indeed has, with or without the garbled westernized versions existing there too. The example is flawed because cultures don't have the right to define how other cultures perceive them. Edit: and it should be obvious why that is. The Kingfish has issued a correction as of 23:45 on May 13, 2018 |
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May 13, 2018 23:03
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The Kingfish posted:We are absolutely not domesticated animals. We are the domesticated animal
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May 14, 2018 00:28
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We're social animals but we haven't been domesticated.
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May 14, 2018 01:09
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The Kingfish posted:We're social animals but we haven't been domesticated. 
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May 14, 2018 01:21
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Lastgirl posted:thats loving weird thats ok i culturally appropriated it from japan
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May 14, 2018 04:15
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domesticated animals are animals that have undergone 'artificial selection' according to its instrumental use to another organism, humans are not domesticated animals and won't be unless aliens land and starting controlling who gets to gently caress who
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May 14, 2018 10:52
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I thought that this was all settled when that lady at college berated the white kid for wearing his hair a certain way on a viral video?
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May 14, 2018 11:01
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Wheeee posted:refusing to challenge others and instead eat their poo poo isnt being respectful, its being a shameful domesticated animal Post the tattoo
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May 14, 2018 11:10
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mrbradlymrmartin posted:sunny side down, rear end up, 8 it? scandalous!
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May 14, 2018 12:10
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it's when youre the blonde kid on the left https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz7DzheCeuQ
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May 14, 2018 16:05
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May 14, 2018 16:19
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Tis a silly notion used to deprive people of agency and stratify them into buckets Cultural appropriation is tribalism to its core
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May 15, 2018 20:36
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Man Musk posted:Tis a silly notion used to deprive people of agency and stratify them into buckets No bud its when corporations turn elements of marginalized cultures into intellectual property
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May 15, 2018 20:41
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:No bud its when corporations turn elements of marginalized cultures into intellectual property Kewl sounds like I can keep my dreads then
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May 15, 2018 20:52
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cultural appropriation isnt oppression!!!! real oppression is when black people laugh at me
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May 15, 2018 20:54
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kinda seeming like "cultural appropriation" is "neoliberalism" for a certain type of stuffy leftist/lib
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May 15, 2018 23:04
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Al! posted:cultural appropriation isnt oppression!!!! real oppression is when black people laugh at me
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May 15, 2018 23:17
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The Kingfish posted:kinda seeming like "cultural appropriation" is "neoliberalism" for a certain type of stuffy leftist/lib a lot of ppl don't want to believe that they're as susceptible to resentment over loss of status as the chuds are
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May 16, 2018 00:19
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what does that have to do with cultural appropriation?
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May 16, 2018 00:29
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i believe the implication is that socially enforcing certain behavior expectations with regard to the nebulous concept of cultural appropriation leads to a loss in status in the form of white people no longer being able to oppress minorities by wearing poo poo they think looks cool and so we are aggrieved
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May 16, 2018 00:33
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The Kingfish posted:what does that have to do with cultural appropriation? because ultimately it's about white people not being used to be told that certain aesthetic choices are not for them (when this is a daily fact of life for minorities), but also its kind of meaningless because at worst it's someone misapplying academic theory to attack someone's aesthetic choices and doesn't have any material impact beyond making a white guy feel bad about having dreads for a moment. i dont actually have any problem with cultural appropriation by individuals unless it's a corporation using it for marketing
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May 16, 2018 00:41
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Man Musk posted:Kewl sounds like I can keep my dreads then If you smell bad Ill still judge you
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May 16, 2018 01:03
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Al! posted:because ultimately it's about white people not being used to be told that certain aesthetic choices are not for them (when this is a daily fact of life for minorities), but also its kind of meaningless because at worst it's someone misapplying academic theory to attack someone's aesthetic choices and doesn't have any material impact beyond making a white guy feel bad about having dreads for a moment. i dont actually have any problem with cultural appropriation by individuals unless it's a corporation using it for marketing I think it might be mostly about liberals/leftists correctly rejecting the idea that certain aesthetic choices can be racially incorrect. And maybe also they are correctly intuiting that the whole concept is, in your words, "meaningless?" The Kingfish has issued a correction as of 02:35 on May 16, 2018 |
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May 16, 2018 02:09
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The entire concept of cultural appropriation is broke, and its telling that literally zero people have made rational or reasoned objections to the points against it I raised earlier, going instead for a lazy "well you see, the people who disagree with me are just motivated by aggrievement, therefore i don't have to defend my beliefs" But if we are playing at that, if that's an acceptable response and not just self serving horseshit -- well, two can play at that game. What motivates cultural appropriation outrage is the collective class guilt of liberals, who know that the system they benefit from is exploitative, but refuse to recognize its class character, and so it takes the form of attacking the easy target of 'white people', up to and including manufacturing outrage over irrelevant poo poo. Literally every culture on this earth copies from everyone else, as the latest azalea song about chun li shows. But only when white peoole do it does it take on this malicious undertone. The subtext of all of which is that everything white people do is automatically malicious, no matter how innocuous it seems. Its this bullshit double standard that lacks both consistency and clarity that is the absolute most toxic part of the left, and as long as it continues to have the stranglehold it does, the true emancipation of humanity is impossible, obly perpetual petty tribalist conflicts, where no one looks at the bigger picture or notices the common trends. And by 'white people', i course don't mean rich liberals, who have the benefit of being rich enough to buy their way out of guilt and adopt all the correct rhetoric, perform the liberal shibboleths. No, they get to be 'citizens of the world' and excluded from all this. Those without money, or the training, or the the rhetoric, or indeed those without the honest to fod privileges of the coastal elite - they're the only ones who count, for some reason. There, i call your "all my opponents only have bad motivations" and raise you "you represent the failure of the left". Show your hand. rudatron has issued a correction as of 03:48 on May 16, 2018 |
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May 16, 2018 03:41
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oh, konnichiwa
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May 16, 2018 04:14
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Chun-Li is a Nikki Minaj song.
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May 16, 2018 05:35
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