Let's Talk About Why We're Doing Revolution and Maybe Convert Some People

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Let's Talk About Why We're Doing Revolution and Maybe Convert Some People

RaySmuckles: Oct 14, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Hey everyone, I was getting into it with someone and figured we should take it here.

I'm not interested in dunking on people, but rather, education and communication. If our ideas are cool and good, then let's use them and figure out more effective ways to communicate our beliefs.

Let's all be on our best behavior. Act like you're trying to convert your mama or brother; someone you care for and respect. Its good practice. I've seen the subject of "how do we actually do this" come up in some other threads, so lets find out if we're up to it.

Here are some quotes to first set the scene and then get into the discussion:

Reluctant Aspirant posted:

A general politics subforum is basically what I'd like, where somebody can say something like "you know it doesn't seem like america's doing too bad right now" and people can talk about it without a ton of posters dropping the arguments they've received from listening to podcasts on them

Pompous Explainer posted:

hmm that sounds more like a sub to me

the everything's alright, actually sub

cuz i dunno how closely you follow politics, but things are actually really bad and each party keeps having major insurgent candidates and the president before trump ran on "hope and change." those aren't exactly words i'd associate with "things are fine"

Reluctant Aspirant posted:

Wow, there should really be a forum where we can continue this conversation without getting all pissed off at eachother and calling eachother names while a bunch of dumbasses show up to cheer on whatever side they identify with

Pompous Explainer posted:

we'd have to make one cuz that sure as poo poo doesn't exist anywhere here now

but, just to address you seriously: there is no world where you can make a claim about the socioeconomic conditions of a group or nation without getting pushback. that's the whole point of politics in the first place. you either want a place where everyone agrees with you already (a segregated sub) or wish the world was a utopia and no one could complain about anything cuz there'd be nothing to complain about, which, hey, everyone else wants too. there is no place where people can make political claims that are seen as innocuous. if you seriously wish poo poo was like that then you are naive and should check out c-spam to learn more

Reluctant Aspirant posted:

I don't mind arguing, even heated arguing, but I despise the loving tribalism your team-my team poo poo that infests those forums

It makes people bad at thinking and sends interesting threads down to slapfight hell because people are always so convinced they're righteous and just (why, just look at all the posters who agree with them), the other poster must be a monster because he's clearly on the enemy's team

Pompous Explainer posted:

political power is about solidarity

in addition, groups of people working together to further elucidate each other and develop political thought collectively is actually incredibly cool and good

alone we are limited and isolated. but together we are capable of so much more. its the very nature of democracy and why academic institutions exist and why peer review is the foundation of modern intellect

people are tribal because our interests are different and there are people out there that want to hurt you and take advantage of you and destroy the things you love and subjugate you under them. to deny this is to deny the very fabric of our political reality.

by advocating individualism you are furthering someone else's cause and subjugating yourself

Reluctant Aspirant posted:

I once received a very similar argument from a business major, saying that the purpose of a business was to allow people to work together and accomplish a goal in the most efficient manner possible

I disagreed and said the purpose of a business was to make its owners money, because if that were ever the theoretical purpose of a business it had clearly been subsumed in practice

If you're alone in the forest chopping your own firewood and growing your own food, whose cause are you furthering? Who's subjugating you?

Pompous Explainer posted:

whoever convinced you that was a good idea. they've successfully prevented you from benefitting from all the cool poo poo we have now

you should be living in a dope industrialized city where the gains are socialized and everyone is able to live comfortably

living in the woods doing all that poo poo actually sucks balls and you've almost certainly never done it or you wouldn't be holding it up as any kind of ideal. toilets, heating, and electricity loving own. not dying of disease that you caught from a tick is cool.

people abandoned the kind of life your describing in droves because it sucked

your only ideological ally is the unibomber

not to mention, what are you chopping trees with? a metal ax? did you forge it yourself? what are you tilling the soil with? or are you just saying its cool to have all the tools of industrialization and then loving off to do your own thing where no one can bother you, to which i say, "yes, being rich and choosing to do whatever you want would be cool"

Reluctant Aspirant posted:

I think it was the best, most affirming and purposeful way for people to live their lives and we'd all been better off if we'd stuck with the more difficult path in the long run instead of chasing short-term gains and loving everything up. I'm not advocating Pol Pot here, but it's clear we're too dependent on others nowadays and we need to start learning how to do things for ourselves again. What do you think all you "gently caress the police" guys are calling for, exactly?

Pompous Explainer posted:

almost word for word his ideology

https://www.josharcher.uk/tags/unabomber-manifesto-pdf/

you should check out c-spam. bring this poo poo up in there and we'll talk about it

Reluctant Aspirant posted:

Well I can't say you're wrong, I don't hate leftists as much as him though, I consider myself a leftist divorced from the communism train (unless we're talking about actual communes)

Of course, I'm also not as smart as him

C-spam is probably the right decision, the megathreads are just so loving annoying

Whew, ok that should be everything!

So, look. This person WANTS to be brought in. They just need that foundational basis and from there we can build upon it. There are countless people on these forums and in our lives who want or need this kind of guidance and if we're serious about living the revolution we want to see happen then its our responsibility to learn how to engage them.

How do you try to convince people in your life?
What are your arguments?
What foundational perspectives are important to start off with?
Am I just crazy and will this thread immediately wither and die?

If you're new to C-SPAM and have questions, post them here. Nothing is too basic. Nothing is off limits. I too struggle with some of the further along steps of what does it actually look like when it starts to take form.

I believe this forum can really make miracles happen, so lets start with an easy one and take it from there.

In solidarity

RaySmuckles has issued a correction as of 22:08 on Mar 29, 2019

# ? Mar 29, 2019 21:52

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# ? May 2, 2024 20:15

RaySmuckles: Oct 14, 2009; Grimey Drawer

i don't do many threads, so i hope this one works out ok

one of the dangerous ideas i've gathered from my initial interactions is how prevalent "individualism" is

the history of the world is the history of increasing organization and complexity

individualism is a myth. we're all so deep in this together its scary

what would you say to people who don't know about solidarity or the importance of working together?

RaySmuckles has issued a correction as of 22:04 on Mar 29, 2019

# ? Mar 29, 2019 21:55

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

we dont need to accommodate bad faith QQcs whiners. the person youre quoting is Nerses IV, who is a racist chud.

# ? Mar 29, 2019 22:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Let's Talk About Why We're Doing Revolution and Maybe Convert Some People