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John Murdoch posted:With KBM your movement is paired with the camera such that fine movement can be done by holding W to move forward and then steering with the mouse. Though I'm not even sure that comes up as often in ER as it does in, say, DS1. yeah but its like every 3rd person game thats made for controller: the camera lags a little compared to "true" MKB, and you have to hold W to actually turn in a tiny circle instead of spinning on your axis with just your mouse. Otherwise you just move the camera. Dyz fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Apr 26, 2024 |
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Apr 26, 2024 14:12
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I'm not following what you mean.
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Apr 26, 2024 14:56
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Buschmaki posted:They should really stop making respecs limited by item. It sucks having to NG+++ or scour a wiki to find a guy who drops stuff just cause I wanna do a diff pvp build at endgame I agree that respecs should be unlimited at some point, but if you’re doing pvp get that wiki guy to drop you everything once and then back up your save. Being able to reload whenever you run out of some consumable or want to change things up or try playing at a different level for a while makes a big difference.
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Apr 26, 2024 15:13
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John Murdoch posted:I'm not following what you mean. Boot up a FPS or a similar game made for wasd + MKB. If you face in a direction with your mouse and hit W you immediately start walking in that direction because your character faces that direction just with mouse movement. You turn with the mouse. In a 3rd person game you turn with WASD. All the mouse does is move the camera, not your character. When you 180 the camera your character isnt facing that direction, they have to move forward to turn. On an analog stick this isnt a problem, they expect you to flick the stick to turn. On 8 direction WASD its clunky.
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Apr 26, 2024 15:50
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I'm still not sure I get it. "When you 180 the camera your character isnt facing that direction, they have to move forward to turn." They...do? I don't really get what this means and it doesn't sound like how KBM works in Souls. Edit: Like if your overall point is "pushing an analog stick in a single direction is more elegant than combining WASD keys together" then...yeah, obviously. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Apr 26, 2024 |
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Apr 26, 2024 16:13
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what 0 maidens does to a mfer..
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Apr 26, 2024 16:19
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You're playing it wrong.
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Apr 26, 2024 16:23
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keyboard and mouse is probably optimal because of all the additional buttons and hotkeys you could set up. it would take adjusting to moving with the camera but i think it probably offers the most precision
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Apr 26, 2024 17:12
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Dyz posted:Boot up a FPS or a similar game made for wasd + MKB. If you face in a direction with your mouse and hit W you immediately start walking in that direction because your character faces that direction just with mouse movement. You turn with the mouse. believe it or not, it works the same on a gamepad. turn your camera, and then press forward on the control stick. your animations for movement will be identical with both control sets
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Apr 26, 2024 17:15
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The worst part about controllers is doing that weird thing with your hands when you're trying to sprint across an arena and also look over your shoulder at the boss or dragon or whatever.
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Apr 26, 2024 17:27
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scary ghost dog posted:keyboard and mouse is probably optimal because of all the additional buttons and hotkeys you could set up. it would take adjusting to moving with the camera but i think it probably offers the most precision i've always considered it the better option almost solely due to the superiority of hotkey setups over the d-pad when it comes to maintaining full mobility and camera control without having to crane your poor index finger down from the bumper i think a lot of the weird "you're playing X souls with kb+M?? buh????" posting came from gaming boomers who'd primarily played PC games before making full use of WASD-adjacent keys was standard practice, so the idea of using Q/E/R/F instead of number keys for gameplay purposes was a foreign concept. i know there's still plenty of people out there who still play MMOs hammering the 1-5 keys because it's what WoW taught them when adjacent letter keys are vastly less stressful on your fingers in the long term
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Apr 26, 2024 17:37
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QERF have never been used before. Back in my day when I had to reload I was lost!!  Open a door? Ummm, hello - how?!?
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Apr 26, 2024 17:45
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scary ghost dog posted:keyboard and mouse is probably optimal because of all the additional buttons and hotkeys you could set up. it would take adjusting to moving with the camera but i think it probably offers the most precision But... you don't need all the extra buttons and hotkeys? The quick menu is wonderful for torrent/estus/estus/flask, which frees up the situational items/summons to be toggled through. Toggling spells can be a pain, but long-pressing up or down resets you to the beginning, and only a few spells need to be spammed anyway. Attacks are nicely set up on the shoulder buttons and can be used easily, while the sticks give you freedom of motion with both movement and vision simultaneously. Like there are some games that are objectively better on M+KB, and some games that feel much better on controller, and ER is one of those games that feels so much better on controller that it's not even a comparison.
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Apr 26, 2024 17:49
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Kb m astonishment for souls 100% just comes from the era of dark souls 1 where kb m was atrocious and needed a mod to be usable. And of course because it's WEIRD LOL
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Apr 26, 2024 17:50
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John Murdoch posted:It also continues to be funny that playing with keyboard and mouse is seen as more degenerate and impossible than Donkey Konga drums or a DDR pad or whatever. souls games are borderline unplayable with a controller and actually unplayable on a keyboard  I did try for a while because my controller broke, I actually went out and got a new controller rather than keep doing it.
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Apr 26, 2024 17:51
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Vintersorg posted:QERF have never been used before. automatic reload and relatively fewer interactables meant that you were using them much more infrequently compared to something like scrolling through weapon lists or using abilities. OW and valorant didn't necessarily invent the paradigm, but they've definitely popularized the idea of using adjacent keys for more frequent or intense gameplay functions compared to before
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Apr 26, 2024 17:52
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Dirk the Average posted:But... you don't need all the extra buttons and hotkeys? The quick menu is wonderful for torrent/estus/estus/flask, which frees up the situational items/summons to be toggled through. Toggling spells can be a pain, but long-pressing up or down resets you to the beginning, and only a few spells need to be spammed anyway. Attacks are nicely set up on the shoulder buttons and can be used easily, while the sticks give you freedom of motion with both movement and vision simultaneously. sure, but if you want to have six-eyed optimized perfect play for some reason, kb+m is likely ideal. have you tried pressing a face button to dodge, or use an item, or toggle through spells and items, while moving the camera to track multiple targets, while sprinting? even claw grip can only get you so far
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Apr 26, 2024 18:02
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SHISHKABOB posted:Kb m astonishment for souls 100% just comes from the era of dark souls 1 where kb m was atrocious and needed a mod to be usable. Not at all. M+KB is great when you need lots of hotkeys and/or precision aiming. Its primary drawback is that WASD isn't as granular as a control stick, so you can't move at specific angles or move slower/faster on the fly. Controller is great when you need that granularity of movement, and when you have a few keys that you're going to hit quite frequently. Its primary drawbacks are a lack of hotkeys and less precise aiming. ER and other Souls games need relatively few hotkeys and don't require precise aiming. They benefit greatly from movement using a control stick. The primary advantages of the KB+M are largely irrelevant, and the disadvantage of KB+M is pronounced. So why would I use KB+M? scary ghost dog posted:sure, but if you want to have six-eyed optimized perfect play for some reason, kb+m is likely ideal. have you tried pressing a face button to dodge, or use an item, or toggle through spells and items, while moving the camera to track multiple targets, while sprinting? even claw grip can only get you so far I move the camera while hitting face buttons or between hitting face buttons. It's never been an issue. Same with toggling spells, though I typically get my spells ready before an encounter, not during. You just don't need to do all of that because of the nature of the Souls games. Dirk the Average fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Apr 26, 2024 |
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Apr 26, 2024 18:04
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there's almost no precise movement requirements in ER beyond a couple platforming/ledge hugging scenarios, and those rare few times can be easily navigated with camera movement and the dedicated walk key
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Apr 26, 2024 18:09
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SHISHKABOB posted:The worst part about controllers is doing that weird thing with your hands when you're trying to sprint across an arena and also look over your shoulder at the boss or dragon or whatever. Not if you have big gangly hands like myself
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Apr 26, 2024 19:15
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SHISHKABOB posted:Kb m astonishment for souls 100% just comes from the era of dark souls 1 where kb m was atrocious and needed a mod to be usable. Yeah DS1 made me get my first PC gamepad and also scared me off ever trying KBM in a From game again. Cursed, -max HP rear end setup. It's probably fine these days on later games.
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Apr 26, 2024 23:24
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People are out there doing RL1 hitless runs with everything under the sun for input and nerds in here are arguing which is better, KBM or controller.
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Apr 27, 2024 01:20
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Not everyone has yet opened their eyes to the bongos.
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Apr 27, 2024 01:23
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I play with special finger tracking software that converts the minuscule but precise movements of my pointer finger into inputs. Project Corhyn does the job so far but isnt stable enough to even be considered a beta, really doesn't handle unexpected inputs well
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Apr 27, 2024 01:31
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Vermain posted:there's almost no precise movement requirements in ER beyond a couple platforming/ledge hugging scenarios, and those rare few times can be easily navigated with camera movement and the dedicated walk key tell me you dont pvp without telling me you dont pvp
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Apr 27, 2024 01:34
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Vermain posted:i've always considered it the better option almost solely due to the superiority of hotkey setups over the d-pad when it comes to maintaining full mobility and camera control without having to crane your poor index finger down from the bumper like scary ghost dog posted:sure, but if you want to have six-eyed optimized perfect play for some reason, kb+m is likely ideal. have you tried pressing a face button to dodge, or use an item, or toggle through spells and items, while moving the camera to track multiple targets, while sprinting? even claw grip can only get you so far
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Apr 27, 2024 01:39
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LazyMaybe posted:ever since ds1 I have played with dodge/run set to left bumper and I do not understand why more people do not do this. a face button for dodging loving sucks when you may also want to use right stick at the same time. i'm a convert to the church of rebinding spacebar in MMOs to whatever my most commonly used ability is and people act like i've just told them i drink my own urine whenever i mention it people get really stuck up on inefficient control schemes due to familiarity and a belief that they'll never be able to unlearn previous muscle memory, but it's really a much more seamless process than you might expect outside of a couple awkward days
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Apr 27, 2024 01:56
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Wow pest threads really chew through Placidusax. Don't get me wrong I still had to fight him about 10 tens but every time I almost got him so it still wasn't easy (I'm not very good) but compared to my last playthrough it was much easier.
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Apr 27, 2024 02:07
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Vermain posted:i've always considered it the better option almost solely due to the superiority of hotkey setups over the d-pad when it comes to maintaining full mobility and camera control without having to crane your poor index finger down from the bumper I think you'll find that the gaming boomers are the ones who prefer mouse and keys over a controller. git gud, scrub never give up, skeleton!
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Apr 27, 2024 02:37
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FreudianSlippers posted:Wow pest threads really chew through Placidusax. Having never used Pest Threads before, I'm finding it's disgusting for any large sized enemy once I figured out the spacing.
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Apr 27, 2024 04:10
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control schemes peaked with goldeneye 64
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Apr 27, 2024 08:16
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LazyMaybe posted:ever since ds1 I have played with dodge/run set to left bumper and I do not understand why more people do not do this. a face button for dodging loving sucks when you may also want to use right stick at the same time. no matter what i have my buttons bound to, im going to want to be able to press any given button while also manipulating both joysticks. therefore i will inevitably need claw grip
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Apr 27, 2024 12:29
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Playing on a controller with backpads feels like cheating. It’s honestly so nice.
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Apr 27, 2024 13:21
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Backpads have become essential for me. I bind my left one to lock-on, and the right to roll. Specifically, an auto-release command so the delay between buttondown and buttonrelease is zero - instant roll. I use the standard face button roll just for sprinting.
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Apr 27, 2024 13:52
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scary ghost dog posted:no matter what i have my buttons bound to, im going to want to be able to press any given button while also manipulating both joysticks. therefore i will inevitably need claw grip
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Apr 27, 2024 13:57
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Buschmaki posted:tell me you dont pvp without telling me you dont pvp im gonna pvp with one of these 
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Apr 27, 2024 14:12
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a primate posted:control schemes peaked with goldeneye 64 My friends all hated it when I set my controller to emulate dual stick controls, which didn't even exist yet IIRC. Using two was even better but not always feasible. I'm a trailblazer.
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Apr 27, 2024 17:23
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LazyMaybe posted:Regardless the dodge/run button is easily the most frequent of the face button actions you're going to want to press while using right stick, and rebinding it to a bumper is a huge improvement. wrong, because the bumpers correlate to left and right arm movements, so switching a bumper and face button causes psychic damage
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Apr 27, 2024 17:33
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Get a gamepad with backpaddles, and bind them to stick click actuations, its a huge upgrade.
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Apr 27, 2024 19:00
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Aside from the Steam Controller I’m not sure there are any back-paddle controllers that can be mapped to something other than face buttons, unless the game’s own config covers it
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Apr 27, 2024 19:05
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