American Culture

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Pentecoastal Elites: Feb 27, 2007; Can't post for 11 hours!

500excf type r posted:

It's whipped so there's a lot of air

ah okay. that's still a shitload but not as completely ridiculous lol

# ? Dec 18, 2023 23:52

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# ? May 6, 2024 10:21

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

tokin opposition posted:

The peanuts aren't unlimited and in a bucket anymore?

# ? Dec 19, 2023 00:07

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022; got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Weka posted:

I have really enjoyed your rant about the west African origins of hip hop but saying that is a direct continuation of the oldest natural form of music reminds me of nothing so much as those dudes who study an "uncontacted" hunter gatherer tribe in the Amazon whose ancestors were agriculturalists and use that to draw conclusions about societies in the paleolithic.

ppl aren't getting what i am saying with that

like im not talking about 21 savage and metro boomin im talking about people freestyling in a cypher, dudes rapping in jail slapping the table and thumping their chest for the drum (hella annoying if u ever been in jail) and the original form of live MCing like hip-hop wasn't a recorded genre as it started, it was a live one, where the MC is the most talented person on here the microphone, who has the best stories and knows everything that's going on and knows the crowd and how to entertain them how that is extremely similar to griot traditions like that's straight up what they do, it's basically being a bard

hip-hop is viewed as a young artform, both commonly and academically

that's often used to invalidate the genre all-around as an undeveloped or immature/childish/ignorant form of music "anyone could do" or that it's 'not real music' or whatever (noticeably more of a thing for hiphop than electronic, nobody will ever have an answer why)

hiphop has a set of core qualities that make it hip-hop, just like any other form of music

none of those qualities have anything that prevents them from having existed as far back into human history that you can go, except the thing allowed by recording equipment and synthesizers, like scratching and dj-screw-esque slowed & pitched down things but nothing happened in 1973 that made 6 dudes standing in a half circle freestyling possible, it already was and they already have been doing poo poo like that, it's just a thing people do, people do it all over.
that's why they already had stuff to record, rappers delight as the first real commercial hip-hop song almost all the bars in it were stolen from other dudes https://www.washingtonpost.com/ente...90481_story.htm the artform was already established, just not at the same scale, not with microphones and PAs, it hadn't been organized or had anyone recording stuff - but it sure came together really fast and that different regions all popped up with their own unique linguistic and stylistic variations that predate hip-hop: the south in hiphop didn't sound like the south right off the bat because of branding, it's because more qualities from griot practices were retained in areas of the south that can transfer into hip-hop very easily due to their proximity from one another as artforms, example the call-response chant stuff in three 6 mafia - that shits old, people like a good chant
i don't think it's a coincidence that they were so insanely commercially successful as they were, around the world. that poo poo resonates with people in a very popular way, it's stuff people have been doing

and none of those qualities in hiphop have anything that prevents them from having existed about as far back into human history that you can go

this is not true for most kinds of music. for most types of music people listen to, you can point to when it was first possible for people to do - instruments have only been standardized for like 200 years, modern notation is about a thousand years old, the oldest notation that's been found was from 1400 bc in iraq. there's a lot of group performances that just aren't doable without notation or an example, either not performable or not composable, baroque era stuff etc

those things can still be improvised by sufficiently skilled performers, but that's not something that can be transferred or replicated the way notation allows so you can't build a tradition past a generation or spreading in popularity the way music that survives does

keyboard instruments are about 900 years old, fretted instruments date to 1500 bc, valved horns, metal instruments, like the further you go back the pool of musical styles that can occur shrinks a lot, and pre- agriculture it's like, large very simple instrument ensembles (wooden/bone horns, drums, whistles, clacky things), smaller performances closer to basically jamming or improv, solo instrumental and vocal stuff
singing is obviously another thing that would've happened but there's not really a genre of 'singing' the way there is for speech, there's opera and acapella and whatever but singing can be anything from the lead in w musical to scatting or throatsinging, hip-hop vocals are speech, they're not tonal often they're delivered in someone's regular speaking register
hip-hop particularly has always had an emphasis on maintaining a chronological record and documentation that other genres do not have - you can know nothing at all about life in America in 1997 and if you listen to all the hip hop that came out that year you will know whose president major political events fashion what songs are hot what artists are hot, how the economy is doing, how people are growing up, how people are dealing with systemic societal issues or geopolitical events, who got killed or arrested, what status symbols & behaviors are the most impressive or something intimidating or desiredetc etc

That's not a thing in other genres, it's a thing with individual artists in other genres but it's not a core component the way it is in hip-hop and is in griot

that part would not fundamentally change much as you go back i don't think, because it hasn't changed much going forward, it's just stuff people like to do, I think that's why it's the most popular genre in the world now even though most places listening to hip-hop have zero direct cultural connection to griot traditions, the music still quickly becomes familiar because it's ultimately built on a pretty universal &:timeless set of human behaviors that just get expressed differently in other places
which is not true with most other genres of music, particularly commercially successful ones

im not saying the first music wss hiphop i am saying the things that are done in hiphop are probably closer to the earliest musical practices of humans than most kinds of music you hear

# ? Dec 19, 2023 02:50

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

im not reading all that

# ? Dec 19, 2023 03:37

speng31b: May 8, 2010

Ohtori Akio posted:

im not reading all that

prove it

# ? Dec 19, 2023 03:43

aw frig aw dang it: Jun 1, 2018

hiphop ftw

# ? Dec 19, 2023 03:43

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

speng31b posted:

prove it

the ignorance of my posts to come will serve as evidence enough

# ? Dec 19, 2023 03:46

FirstnameLastname: Jul 10, 2022; got me 50 ounces out a bird in this bitch

Ohtori Akio posted:

im not reading all that

where'd u learn music history stuff btw

# ? Dec 19, 2023 04:35

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

FirstnameLastname posted:

where'd u learn music history stuff btw

was a special interest through high school and college. but i only care about melee fight now

# ? Dec 19, 2023 04:42

post COVID: Mar 5, 2007; free college, free healthcare, free Shmurda

Ismail Serageldin asked me to 'explain hip hop' to him because i was a young American and said i liked it. he considers jazz to be the truest American artform and wanted to like hip hop but was too old.

# ? Dec 19, 2023 07:40