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mandruku posted:
Get used to thinking what possible starting hands they can have to beat you and how likely it is that they have them, when you see the flop. After the flop with trips, you can be reasonable sure you have the best hand. The only way he had you beat at that point in the hand is if he had pocket 2s, queen/2 or ace queen. You want to bet in such a way that if they are trying to draw, as this guy is, they will have to make a mistake in order to do it. Drawing a flush after the flop is something like 5-1 odds, so betting half to 3/4s of the pot makes it 3-1 or worse pot odds, so they have to put in more money than they have chance to win. If he plays back at you after a bet then you can consider the risk of him having a better hand, but you shouldnt fear it unless you have a spotless read on him pre-flop. Pizzlefish fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Feb 26, 2007 |
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Feb 26, 2007 22:32
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See I'm resonably aware I played this hand pretty weakly, but if I'm positive I've got the buts on the flop, is it ok to play it kinda weakly in order to get some more money out of everybody?
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Feb 27, 2007 01:09
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mandruku posted:See I'm resonably aware I played this hand pretty weakly, but if I'm positive I've got the buts on the flop, is it ok to play it kinda weakly in order to get some more money out of everybody? You really really really need to read some poker books. I suggest starting with the Theory of Poker, then moving to No Limit Theory and Practice.
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Feb 27, 2007 01:21
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LuckySevens posted:You really really really need to read some poker books. I suggest starting with the Theory of Poker, then moving to No Limit Theory and Practice. I don't understand why what I did was so wrong though? The only other contender had a Jack, if I had raised higher he surely would have folded early and I would have made about $0.30 to $0.50 by scaring them off, but in that particular hand I had no reason to be scared of any other possible hand so why not lead them in in? I ended up basically doubling what I put in?
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Feb 27, 2007 02:52
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mandruku posted:I don't understand why what I did was so wrong though? The only other contender had a Jack, if I had raised higher he surely would have folded early and I would have made about $0.30 to $0.50 by scaring them off, but in that particular hand I had no reason to be scared of any other possible hand so why not lead them in in? I ended up basically doubling what I put in? It's more a matter of the fact that you probably don't understand basic poker concepts (some of them are nonintuitive!). All of these hands are pretty bad, and in general no one cares about brag threads (of the flop nuts make bux variety) in here, nor do they care about hands where you start with 18BB (like the AA thread).
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Feb 27, 2007 02:55
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blah_blah posted:It's more a matter of the fact that you probably don't understand basic poker concepts (some of them are nonintuitive!). All of these hands are pretty bad, and in general no one cares about brag threads (of the flop nuts make bux variety) in here, nor do they care about hands where you start with 18BB (like the AA thread). Right, ok. I'll go away, study/play some more and come back later. Thanks anyway vv it's cool bro, no hard feelings at all. echinopsis fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 27, 2007 |
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Feb 27, 2007 02:58
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mandruku posted:Right, ok. I'll go away, study/play some more and come back later. Thanks anyway Maybe that came off a little harsh. It's not that people are unwilling to give you advice, it's just that in some cases it's better to read why slowplaying often costs you money, and why it is good to raise with a variety of hands, and the importance of getting the right odds to draw and so on. When you flop the nuts with less than 50BB, you are never ever folding and in most cases getting your whole stack in by the turn, so there isn't much to discuss. These are exciting scenarios to be in but not so great to discuss. Conversely, places in which you have medium strength hands and are not sure whether to check, bet, or fold (if bet into) are generally more interesting, or scenarios where you are wondering whether you should have bluffed, or similar situations.
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Feb 27, 2007 03:04
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mandruku posted:I don't understand why what I did was so wrong though? The only other contender had a Jack, if I had raised higher he surely would have folded early and I would have made about $0.30 to $0.50 by scaring them off, but in that particular hand I had no reason to be scared of any other possible hand so why not lead them in in? I ended up basically doubling what I put in? You don't see the exploitability in a strategy that consists of "when I'm strong, play weak"?
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Feb 27, 2007 03:26
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LuckySevens posted:You don't see the exploitability in a strategy that consists of "when I'm strong, play weak"? I'm only answering because you asked me. Yeah I see, but that's not my strategy, it's just what I did on that hand. How could I have been exploited in that hand? If I thought there was a reasonable chance of 4th & 5th street ruining my hand then yeah playing weakly would be a weak move, but the way I look at it, I saw better odds of playing weakly and drawing money than playing strong and taking what I could get. I understand it's not "correct" as such.
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Feb 27, 2007 04:01
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mandruku posted:I'm only answering because you asked me. Yeah I see, but that's not my strategy, it's just what I did on that hand. How could I have been exploited in that hand? If I thought there was a reasonable chance of 4th & 5th street ruining my hand then yeah playing weakly would be a weak move, but the way I look at it, I saw better odds of playing weakly and drawing money than playing strong and taking what I could get. I understand it's not "correct" as such. The problem is, you're letting him off the hook with second best hands. You're much better building a pot early in the hand while you're hand is relativly unknown; everyone plays flops strong if they feel the other is weak. As the hand goes on, it becomes more obvious that he can narrow down your hand range to something strong, and by that stage he can control the pot and see the showdown. And by him controlling the pot, you lose money. With your strong hands, you should be looking to build the pot early while your range is relatively wide. This is why you need to make bigger bets preflop and on the flop, it gets his money into the pot, forcing him to stay along later in the hand and pay you off with his stack. Thats why I recommended the books, its a fairly core concept, but one that new players who have never read a poker book and play off their instincts commonly make.
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Feb 27, 2007 05:08
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LuckySevens posted:The problem is, you're letting him off the hook with second best hands. You're much better building a pot early in the hand while you're hand is relativly unknown; everyone plays flops strong if they feel the other is weak. As the hand goes on, it becomes more obvious that he can narrow down your hand range to something strong, and by that stage he can control the pot and see the showdown. And by him controlling the pot, you lose money. Well thanks. I think I get what you're trying to say. Appreciate the tip 
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Feb 27, 2007 06:54
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I had an interesting experience tonight playing with a mega-LAG. 65/40/5 over a smallish sample. The first hand I knew he was betting light, but didn't realize the extent of his retardedness yet. After the hand the guy behind me commented that he really wanted to call with a draw but couldn't. He was pissed when lagtard folded. http://www.pokerhand.org/?859565 The next one's a bit weird, but calling the flop didn't at all seem right, neither did raising a smaller amount. Both of these hands seemed a bit over-aggro, but I didn't like either calling or folding. http://www.pokerhand.org/?859573 I realised that calling down light was better with this guy, since he was betting nearly every hand he played all 3 streets. http://www.pokerhand.org/?859577 I think I took it too far in this hand though. I feld strongly that he had whiffed completely all the way to the river. I was right, but he whiffed with a better hand than mine. These calls would be suicide against anyone sane, but against this guy, I don't know. This one's especially questionable. http://www.pokerhand.org/?859578 In retrospect I should have loosened up way more pre-flop when this guy was in the pot, and given him more rope to hang himself with post-flop. He left pretty quickly, before I could fully unleash the LAP revolution on him.
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Feb 27, 2007 07:57
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mandruku posted:Well thanks. I think I get what you're trying to say. Appreciate the tip In simpler terms, in the beginning he doesn't know if his second best hand has you beat or not, so if you bet more he'll still be calling you, then later when the pot's so big that he can't afford to fold even though he realizes by now you're probably ahead, you get all his money.
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Feb 27, 2007 08:25
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Live loose cash home game, 7 handed $0.25/$0.50 blinds with max 20 buyin, but there were plenty of rebuys/reloads so stacks were fairly deep. I have roughly $50. All limp to me in the BB with 44. Flop rolls Ah 5x Kc. Check all around. Turn is Ac. Check all around. River is 4c. Check, then I bet $4. Guy behind me minraises another $4. Fold back to me. This is an insta-raise, right? retarded me just calls and he turns over Q9c for the nut flush, I table my full house and scoop a smallish pot. I cost myself a bet because I'm sure he'd have played with me, but I didn't really want to get into a raising war with 4's full in case he did have something like A5 or a slowplayed AK. I should have raised obviously, but how much? And if he plays back at me?
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Feb 27, 2007 09:20
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Yes. He could have a naked ace, or a flush. If he slowplayed AK or AA somehow all the way (would he slowplay A5 and A4 too? I don't really see that) then oh well, but take him to value town.
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Feb 27, 2007 15:51
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sublyme posted:Sublyme Very few people would play that slow or passive all the way down to the river. Even fewer people are going to limp AK in what you described is a loose 7 handed game. You have to feel that if his ace connected on the flop or turn he would have had to bet it somewhere; particually on the turn when he would have hit trips on a flush draw board. At some point if he had the ace he would have tried to put money in before the river unless he's extremely passive or exceptionally tricky. Raise for value here. If he tables a hand that beats you shrug it off and reload.
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Feb 27, 2007 17:12
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?862224 I decided to play this hand pretty tricky. Only read on villain is that he reraised preflop with AKo and seemed mildly aggressive. It was kind of a crazy line to take but ended up working really well. Is this results oriented or was it a good play? My thinking on the river check was that he'll almost always value bet with AJ+ and my play was odd so he might bluff at it too. Is just calling the river weak?
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Feb 28, 2007 03:32
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Deltron 3030 posted:Is just calling the river weak? Yes, you are ahead a ton here. If I check that river, I'd probably c/rai. Sets = nuts. I don't see him having a higher set here unless he got there with JJ somehow, as I think most higher sets are raising the turn [esp since he's somewhat agg]. The only non set hand that got there is T9 which I don't really think he has here. Edit: I don't mind your overall line at all here. I will c/c, lead turn with sets somewhat often. Given the texture of the board, he will likely bet his missed draws here so your river check will pick up value from those [but lose value from one pair type hands that check behind]. Also if he's at least somewhat agg he'll bet most two pairs on the end and your c/c misses value from those. EDIT2: Oh, 65 got there too, also unlikely though. rivals fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Feb 28, 2007 |
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Feb 28, 2007 03:40
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Deltron 3030 posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?862224 The board is as disconnected as it gets (there's practically zero chance you're looking at 56 here) and therefore you're only behind to a higher trips. I'm raising the river every time, and if he has trips, oh well.
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Feb 28, 2007 03:42
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I've got a general question about implied odds. How do you guys figure them out when up against villains you don't know very well?
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Feb 28, 2007 09:48
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Deltron3030 raise the river, other then that well played I guess!
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Feb 28, 2007 14:59
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sofokles posted:I've got a general question about implied odds. Because you can make general statements, like people don't fold top pair when a gutshot straight hits, and people don't fold overpairs on raggy boards. Tailor this to your opponent.
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Feb 28, 2007 15:00
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Villain has been at the table ~10 hands and has raised around 4 times, that's all I know about him. The player to my right is extremely bad, he'll call down with all kinds of junk and make very predictable bluffs, he's the main reason i'm in this hand. 100NL (UTG)Villain $91.25 (MP)Retard $174.85 (BTN)Hero $253.80 Hero A  7Pre-Flop Villain bets $4, Retard calls, Hero calls, Blinds fold Flop A  2 7Villain bets $8, Retard folds, Hero bets $25, Villain calls Turn 2 Villain checks, Hero checks River 9 Villain bets $62.25 and is all-in, Hero??? Bet more on the flop? Bet the turn? Call/Fold river?
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Mar 1, 2007 19:53
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Preflop and flop look fine. I think you should have definitely bet the turn though. What's in his range of hands that beats you right now other than some club connectors? Since he called your raise on the flop, he likely has AJ+ or so, which is good news for you. Unless you're trying to induce a bluff on the river, I think you bet this turn. Most people at 100NL are too dumb to fold top pair A's, so fire again. You also don't want to give him a free card if he has a high club. As played, I think you call. You set yourself up for this tougher spot by checking behind on the turn, but it's so likely that he just has A's with a high kicker (or even a stubborn 1010-KK) that you have to call here. Deltron 3030 fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Mar 1, 2007 |
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Mar 1, 2007 20:23
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BigJimSlade posted:2-pair hand These spots are so tough. Your hand is basically a bluff-catcher, since there are no worse hands that will value bet this board. Checking behind on the turn will induce bluffs, the question is whether his bet is a bluff 1/3 of the time or more. It's tough to tell against an unknown. I tend to be a station in these spots since lots of people like bluffing scare cards, despite the fact that I expect to see a flush more often than not. Also, a missed check-raise might bet less on the river to be called more often. Here is a similar hand that I played yesterday. Villain is fairly LAG, and I thought there were enough missed draws bluffing to make up for the value bets. http://www.pokerhand.org/?866843
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Mar 1, 2007 20:47
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BigJimSlade posted:Villain has been at the table ~10 hands and has raised around 4 times, that's all I know about him. Stick it in on the turn and fade a few outs.
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Mar 1, 2007 21:37
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id bet turn, but as played im calling river
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Mar 1, 2007 21:39
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crackstar posted:I expect to see a flush more often than not. I'm a newb, but my read is that villain has anything but a flush. What kind of hand would he raise UTG with? Probably Ax or a pocket pair, neither of which can make a flush here.
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Mar 1, 2007 21:50
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Thanks for the replies. I made the call, villain had T9. Oh well, I got a note out of it.
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Mar 1, 2007 22:06
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crackstar posted:These spots are so tough. Your hand is basically a bluff-catcher, since there are no worse hands that will value bet this board. This is definitely not true, he can have a big ace.
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Mar 1, 2007 22:21
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blah_blah posted:This is definitely not true, he can have a big ace. If he makes this bet with a big ace, it can't be for value since he'll fold out all of the hands that he's beating. A big ace would probably either check to induce a bluff with the intent of calling, or make a smallish bet that a weaker hand could call. I can't see him betting to try to fold out 2-pair or a set here. I think a big ace is extremely unlikely after this river bet. I hold that he is never value betting a worse hand here, and thus your hand is a bluff catcher.
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Mar 2, 2007 00:02
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Bitrot posted:I'm a newb, but my read is that villain has anything but a flush. What kind of hand would he raise UTG with? Probably Ax or a pocket pair, neither of which can make a flush here. Note that UTG here (5-handed) is a lot different than at a bigger table. Raising requirements from the hijack (UTG at a 5-person table) can range from moderately loose to very loose, depending on the player. He can have all kinds of hands here, including any pair, suited connector, suited one gapper, or suited broadway. Many of these can indeed make a flush. Even tight players will open lots of suited cards from this position.
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Mar 2, 2007 00:10
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?869736 Bad Beat or stupid play?
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Mar 2, 2007 20:10
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I'd keep raising the flop because of the likeliness that someone hit a big second-best hand. Turns out the money was probably getting in anyway whether you waited or not. Nice hand, sucky luck. Remember: Win big pots fast.
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Mar 2, 2007 20:50
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puschel posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?869736 Pre-flop is kind of questionable unless he opens loose or you can consistently out-play him after the flop. It is soooooooted though so I guess it's ok. Just push the flop the second time around rather than flat call. Rovingambla flat called an all-in check-raise with you behind him still to act, so he obviously likes his hand and wants you to come along. Your push is only about a 2/3 pot raise, and it's very unlikely that he'll fold. I would raise his C-bet here on your first action though, because he's coming along with a lot of hands, and getting his big stack has more value than bringing the short stack along. Thoughts?
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Mar 2, 2007 20:56
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puschel posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?869736 All in after Rovingabla flat calls. lovely turn.
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Mar 2, 2007 21:58
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Xpost from 2p2 msnl: Villain (DONK79 on cake) doesn't get out of line too much. Only seen him bluff the river with 6 high on an Ace high board after he raised the turn in a limped pot with an OESFD that bricked. Doesn't seem like he reads other peoples hands much, but rather just plays his own. Sometimes limps and folds to a 4x raise with 100bb+ stacks. Our only encounter has been when he opened the SB to $30 and I called with 64s and $2k effective stacks. Flop A25r, he bets like half pot and I call, hit my 3 on the turn and he check-calls 3/4th pot bets on the turn and blank river with AK. Thoughts on the turn check? Standard? Meh? 50/50? I remember thinking at the time that this was the first time I'd seen him raise to $40, and that it was usually $30 or $35. Effective $1200, 6 handed Villain opens UTG to $40, Hero calls (button) with 9 9, heads up to the flop.Flop K  T 9 Pot: $95Villain bets $68, I raise to $285, villain calls pretty quick (<3 seconds) Turn J Villain checks, I check River 4 Pot: $665Villain bets $665
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Mar 3, 2007 00:09
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Put him on AK and call! Seriously though my gut reaction is that the turn looks like a missed check-raise. The only things you're beating are AA, AK, and AJ if he even opens it UTG. Having some knowlege of the kind of hands he opens UTG would be helpful too. I really hate folding sets, but I think I could let this one go. If the villain is as conservative as you say, it looks like his range is killing us here. As for the turn, if you bet it, do you fold to a check-raise? Since you didn't bet the turn, he probably thinks you don't have a Q, since a queen would generally bet to protect against flushes. I don't usually try to nail down exact hands, but this hand looks like it's exactly KK. Thoughts?
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Mar 3, 2007 10:34
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This is a hand from a frequent home game last night playing nine handed at the time. .25/.50 blinds nl and I have about $30 in my stack. I limped one from UTG with K diamonds 9 heart and 3-4 people limp behind me around to the blinds which check. The flop comes 9 5 2 all diamonds and while the second card is falling the small blind is already reaching. She bets $5 which I raise to $15. It folds around to her and she quickly calls. The turn is a blank and she checks. I have about another 15 in my stack and she has me covered. I have some pretty specific reads on her which I can share later. Thoughts on the flop raise and what to do on the turn?
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Mar 3, 2007 21:18
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| # ? May 27, 2024 00:45 |
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Hand from Cake $50NL 6-max. Sorry for the lack of hand history, it happened several days ago but I've been thinking about it: Folds to me in CO, I have $50 and QcQx. I raise to $2.25. Button folds. SB (with around $28) and BB (with around $40) both call. Now, its Cake, they could literally have anything, any two cards suited, any two semi-connected cards, anything. Pot is $6.10. Flop is 4c2c4x. SB thinks for a second, bets pot. BB calls. I...? SB's bet is almost certainly not a 4. I've never ever seen someone on Cake who flopped trips like that lead out, and certainly never ever with a pot-sized bet. This leaves him with a 2 (very possible) or a smallish-overpair (55-88, maybe even 99 or TT). BB's call threw me a little, but it could easily be a flush draw, perhaps a 2, and maybe even a slow-played 4. He might have something like 35 or A3 for some form of straight draw (although the gutshot is a bit unlikely since he called a pot-sized bet). I'm getting 3 to 1 odds to call, but I really have no idea where I'm at. I'm probably still ahead, but scare cards are any club, ace, maybe a king, and maybe a straight card. What do I do here? Any reraise will get SB to push or fold, while BB could possibly call a reraise but definitely would get it in on the turn if he had much of anything. Leading out with a pot-sized bet usually means a fairly strong from Cake players, but trips almost always check raise. Is folding an option? Do I have to just grit my teeth and push? I ended up pushing, trying to get the money in when I was ahead of flush draws, etc. SB instacalls with AxTx, no draws, and BB instacalls with Ks4s, having me crushed. Sigh.
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Mar 3, 2007 22:26
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