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reethaxor posted:Oh man I played this bad. My take on this hand: I don't like the turn call or the piddly river bet. He has only 55 left after his 25 bet so you know it is most likely going all in on any bet. If you think your 2 pair on the turn is best, just push on the turn. You'll still be giving him about 3-1 on his money so he shouldn't lay down that many worse hands, all of which are hands he would lay down to a bet on the river. So why give him that free card? Even if he had a better hand, you will most likely call any river bet anyway. I would have bet half pot on the turn, chase out any draws that would have checked behind you. A check doesnt build the pot any and you dont want to give a free card. If they checked behind you, you most likely wouldnt be able to get any extra money in the pot unless they catch that free card which has a chance of beating you(a couple straights, a set, or a better 2 pair) and you won't be able to get away from it. If he is tight preflop in early position against a earlier raiser, my guess is that he either had queens, AQ, AK, AJ, or possibly 3s or A7 suited if you meant he was getting looser recently. Im assuming he isn't stupid enough to push an extra 30 on a busted draw and hope you fold. edit: beaten horribly, but I'm glad my read is on par with the other, much better players.
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May 11, 2007 22:14
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Thanks guys, in retrospect I should have just gotten it in on the turn since he could have had AK/AJ/AT there. On the river I was thinking b/f but didn't realize how short stacked we were before I shoved half my chips in, then I had to call his push. He turned up QQ for the flopped set.
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May 12, 2007 22:33
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i just came back from being afk for a little and find this guy sitting at the table, so no reads really. was my turn play correct to check and fold if the villan bet huge? the only hands i could think of he possibly could've hit is 22, A2s, J6. maybe he even had me outkicked with QJo, but i'm not sure if he would be so much with just 2 spades in his hand. should this have been an easy fold on the turn? did my checking on the turn give my hand away? PokerStars No-Limit lHold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Something Awful) UTG+1 ($14.95) Hero ($56.75) MP2 ($25.25) MP3 ($11.50) CO ($25.10) Button ($25) SB ($30.70) BB ($24.20) UTG ($21.60) Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T  , J . 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds, CO calls $0.25, 2 folds, BB checks. Flop: ($0.85) 6  , 2 , J (3 players)BB bets $0.5, Hero raises to $1.5, CO folds, BB raises to $5, Hero calls $3.50. Turn: ($10.85) 5  (2 players)BB bets $10, Hero folds. Final Pot: $20.85
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May 15, 2007 18:58
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EL Bombastico posted:did my checking on the turn give my hand away? You are in position here, and as such you never checked the turn.. That said I think you can find a fold to the flop 3b against an unknown. I think you are drawing pretty slim way more than you are ahead.
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May 15, 2007 19:19
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p0isonxfree posted:You are in position here, and as such you never checked the turn.. That said I think you can find a fold to the flop 3b against an unknown. I think you are drawing pretty slim way more than you are ahead. oops yeah i was in position. i should've known he would bet at least 3/4 of the pot on the turn, considering the flop play by the villain.
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May 15, 2007 20:04
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EL Bombastico posted:the only hands i could think of he possibly could've hit is 22, A2s, J6. maybe he even had me outkicked with QJo, but i'm not sure if he would be so much with just 2 spades in his hand. Your possible hand read is pretty small. He is in the big blind, so he could be playing almost any hand here. As an unknown, you don't any clue what he will raise with in that position. He could have a ton of hands that have you beat, like 22,62,J2,J6,66,KJ,QJ,AJ, could be trapping with aces, kings, queens, or he could be bluffing hard with or without a flush draw. With no history to draw from, its best to go with caution and fold to his show of strength on the flop with top pair medium kicker.
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May 15, 2007 20:19
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Cake NL100 I have Js 8s in the CO. One limper, I limp, huge fish limps behind me, both blinds limp. Effective stacks are 130BB ish. Fish has shown a major tendency to overvalue hands, although he hasn't played a lot of hands since doubling up with TPNK against some 15 out hand I had earlier. Flop is Jd Ts 8d checked to me, I lead for $4, fish makes it $12, everyone folds, I make it $39, fish calls Turn is Kd I openshove. opinions?
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May 16, 2007 04:02
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blah_blah posted:Cake NL100 Turn's tough, that card sucks hard, but considering how much you have left and how much of a fish he is I don't know what else you can do here. Jam and hope he calls with QJ? Check and call when he pushes with J3 or a horribly played AA/AK/KQ? It's hard to find a fold against this kind of player :/
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May 16, 2007 20:22
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXHwsTFxcDAw8TExMLMwojFx8bGzcY%3d Should I fold to this minraise on the river? I have notes on the guy saying he's passive and pretty tight. I had KK. EDIT: I'm pretty sure I've answered my own question, but correct to fold right? Biggy_ fucked around with this message at 00:42 on May 17, 2007 |
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May 17, 2007 00:37
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No real reads on the villain. 13 hands against him, he never raised pre-flop before. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Something Awful) MP1 ($0.71) MP2 ($3) Hero ($3) Button ($2.67) SB ($1.99) BB ($5.50) UTG ($2.31) UTG+1 ($3.02) Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , Q . MP2 posts a blind of $0.02. UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 (poster) checks, Hero raises to $0.1, Button raises to $0.36, 2 folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.34, Hero calls $0.26. Flop: ($1.15) 2 , J , T (3 players)MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.6, Button raises to $2.31, MP2 folds, Hero folds. Final Pot: $4.06 I didn't think too much before betting the $0.6 on the flop. AA, KK, JJ, TT have me beat. So I can beat pretty much only AK (and the unlikely QQ for a split pot unless he catches the runner-runner flush). What should I have done here?
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May 17, 2007 12:58
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Since you haven't seen him raise in only 13 hands, I wouldn't put his range that small. I probably shove the flop with the overpair, if he has aces or kings unlucky. I don't think he's that strong though.
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May 17, 2007 14:23
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXHwsTFxcfBzcTExMbMwIjFx8bGzcY%3d Posting this hand cause I heard some mixed opinions, he hadn't played a big hand before this. I pot bet the river and he instashoves. I had KQ
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May 17, 2007 14:39
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Biggy_ posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXHwsTFxcfBzcTExMbMwIjFx8bGzcY%3d He slowplayed it perfectly and got lucky that you hit a strong hand on the river. There isn't much else you can do, really.
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May 17, 2007 19:29
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Biggy_ posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXHwsTFxcfBzcTExMbMwIjFx8bGzcY%3d Given the hand I think the T can get you to fold. Any other T and I think you have to call. The board is paired and the spade draw got there. The only real hand you beat is trip 9s and I'm not sure he is going to jam with that with possible straight and flush draws.But then again it is Cake so I probably call like you anyways. Just a bad hand to hit on. He definitely played that perfectly against your hand and his strength is pretty hidden.
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May 18, 2007 11:40
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No reads on the the villain Hand #1138011577000856: Seville (6-Max) 11577 Seat 2: CleaveSteam (62.23 in chips) Seat 4: PFC Capital (217.94 in chips) Seat 5: monique (223.55 in chips) Seat 7: casey50 (75.45 in chips) Seat 8: Mulu55 (50.00 in chips) Seat 9: DavinDad (89.55 in chips) monique: posts small blind $1 casey50: posts big blind $2 Dealt to monique [ Qc Qh ] DavinDad: calls CleaveSteam: folds PFC Capital: folds monique: raises to $8 casey50: folds DavinDad: calls *** FLOP *** [ 9c Ts Td ] monique: bets $10 DavinDad: calls *** TURN *** [ 6s ] monique: checks DavinDad: bets $20 monique: calls *** RIVER *** [ 2s ] monique: checks DavinDad: is all in monique: calls It was around $50 to call on the river. I really didn't know how to play the turn so I check called which I'm not very happy about. Whats the best way to play this hand and why? ntrik fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 19, 2007 |
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May 19, 2007 01:28
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Rheingold posted:No real reads on the villain. 13 hands against him, he never raised pre-flop before. Hasn't raised in 13 hands, and you put him on a premium? Say that over and over in your head.
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May 19, 2007 01:32
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Biggy_ posted:Since you haven't seen him raise in only 13 hands, I wouldn't put his range that small. I probably shove the flop with the overpair, if he has aces or kings unlucky. I don't think he's that strong though. LuckySevens posted:Hasn't raised in 13 hands, and you put him on a premium? Say that over and over in your head. Thanks guys. It's just that I'm drawing to two outs against any kind of credible hand. I have 38% equity against TT+,AKs,AKo and I need to go down to TT+,ATs+,KQs,ATo+,KQo just for 55% equity. Next time I'll shove and see what happens. 
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May 20, 2007 10:07
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Easy fold? Villain 34/11/2 over about 100 hands, nothing noteworthy till now. How would you play each street? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Something Awful) CO ($108.65) Button ($184.30) Hero ($150.90) BB ($143.75) UTG ($200.15) MP ($111.20) Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 , 8 . UTG raises to $3, 3 folds, Hero calls $2.50, BB calls $2. Flop: ($9) 9  , 7 , T (3 players)Hero bets $6, BB calls $6, UTG calls $6. Turn: ($27) 2 (3 players)Hero bets $15, BB folds, UTG calls $15. River: ($57) J (2 players)Hero bets $38, UTG raises to $121
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May 20, 2007 10:13
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Baz posted:Easy fold? Villain 34/11/2 over about 100 hands, nothing noteworthy till now. How would you play each street? Flop looks ok, but I'd never bet this turn into 2 people, check and see what happens. The river is a fairly easy push over the raise you're only losing to KQ which would be a strange hand for him to have. JJ is far more likely. Could be spliting with A8 or maybe K8 I guess.
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May 20, 2007 13:55
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I didnt have many reads on villain, but he seemed to be doing alright at the table. I must say I did see him play a few draws, and none were played out like this. He was a little passive on his draws The hand that dreams are made of I call PF hoping to flop big, if not I'm done. And flop an OESD. My initial though was to check/call if he bet, but I figured i'd be better off getting some info on his hand, so I decided to bet out. Once he raised, honestly the only thought that came to mind was to push my draw. In hindsight, I think it would of been better to check/call or even bet/call to see the turn. Then once the 4c comes I think I had 2 choices. One being bet big, and call whatever he does afterwords. Or check, and rr big any bet he makes to try and represent a flush, since as I mentioned I saw him play a draw or two and it just didnt play out the same. So I figured I could represent a monster here. I guess the flop push was spew-ish, but I dont totally disagree with it myself, its a situational play I think. What play would you make? As in, what do you think the best line would be to get him off his overpair?
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May 21, 2007 17:07
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LLeGGo posted:I didnt have many reads on villain, but he seemed to be doing alright at the table. I must say I did see him play a few draws, and none were played out like this. He was a little passive on his draws  First off, fold PF. Second, why are you going all-in with an OESD with 8 outs when you said yourself he is an alright player (which to me means not a moron donkey going all in with AK high), 2 of which might be no good? Seriously, as played, after your flop donk bet, just call and hope to hit a turn. This is one of the most hilarious reasonings I've read for bad play.
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May 21, 2007 17:17
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Fold preflop. A low offsuit connector is NOT going to "flop big" often enough to make up for the fact that you are oop against a "decent" player [rereading your post it seems he's partially unknown, which still sucks]. I don't like leading the flop, he's not folding much you beat and you are getting raised by almost all of his hands that he's continuing this [he's not going to smooth call this flop with an overpair]. I think the flop call is meh. If you know he'll stack off almost all the time if you hit on turn then it's okay, but I still hate playing this OOP here. He's probably not raising you on this flop to shut down on turn because it's so drawy, so I guess that's okay for your implieds. As played the push sucks, I don't think he's raise/folding much on a board that's this drawy. Also if you want to bluff, you should do it after the draw comes in, not before [and even then, I wouldn't do it against what is mostly an unknown here].
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May 21, 2007 17:29
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Off topic here ; might belong in stupid questions But what is a good BB/100 hands for NL100 over 20k hands?
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May 21, 2007 17:38
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Werd... I agree this is a complete and utter abortion of a hand. This is not my usual type of play. Perhaps I should of explained myself better as to why I even posted this hand. I wanted to get opinions how to save myself should I have made the decisions I outlined such as a c/c or b/c. Which is why at the end I said "besides folding". Playing low connectors OOP is not something I do against players I dont know much about, or in general. This was more a hypothetical post on the situation, and less then my actual hand, of which I know is horrible. But p0isonxfree, thats the exact response I expected and wanted, thanks. 
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May 21, 2007 18:11
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Playing drawing hands out of position is one of the hardest things to do in poker. Even if you hit it is going to be hard to get paid off. I think people massively overestimate implied odds in these situations. To recap: OOP connected type hands are -EV!
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May 22, 2007 04:06
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CRHCP posted:Off topic here ; might belong in stupid questions Anything above 0 is good. With the way games are right now (read: pretty tough) I'd say 5ptBB/100 hands is very very good. If you are making more than that definitely consider moving up, as you are probably crushing the game. Anything above 3 and you are probably a winning player. Note that I am referring to Poker Tracker big bets, which is twice the big blind, so 5ptBB = $10 at NL100.
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May 22, 2007 04:28
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LLeGGo posted:Werd... Preflop if you're going to play something as weak as 76o a reraise is probably way better than just a call because then you'll at least be taking initiative and he'll have to play cautiously even though he has JJ. But again, 76o isn't exactly the best hand to be 3-betting against an unknown, especially if this unknown won't let go of JJ easily. Calling is probably the worst play here as you're not getting great odds, you're out of position, and have shown absolutely no strength. If you call here with weak hands you'd have to balance it out by calling with your monsters as well and that doesn't work too well EV wise (although for deception, we do sometimes just call with big hands). Reraising here at least allows villain to slow down when you donkbet him on the flop because at least now you're donkbet is trying to say, "I have a hand" On the flop, you check fold unless he bets very small. I plugged in a very standard range against a standard player for you into PokerStove 50,490 games 0.005 secs 10,098,000 games/sec Board: 8s 3c 5c Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 30.596% 29.92% 00.67% 15109 339.00 { 7d6s } Hand 1: 69.404% 68.73% 00.67% 34703 339.00 { 88+, 55, 33, AcKc, Ac8c, 9c7c, 7c6c, 6c4c, 4c2c } Edit: http://www.pokerhand.org/?555435 Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 22, 2007 |
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May 22, 2007 15:55
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Strong Sauce posted:{ 88+, 55, 33, AcKc, Ac8c, 9c7c, 7c6c, 6c4c, 4c2c } That's a pretty small range right there. I like how your villain never cbets and checks 44/77 on this flop.
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May 22, 2007 17:33
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXAxcTFxcDGwcTExMzHzYjFzMLCxMM%3d I'm Jui1ie, mucked TJ. No reads on villian, I haven't seen him much/I haven't been paying attention like I should be. Should I be able to get away from that hand (if so, would it be on the flop, turn or river?), or play it differently? Yes, I know crap like flopped 2 pair vs flopped straight happens all the time, but I'm really not sure why this particular hand is bothering me. The only different way I can think of playing this hand is 3betting that flop to see where I'm at and check/folding if he calls it, but that could be a dumb play too. The minraise on the flop made me kind of suspicious, but I felt like he made it cheap enough afterwards for me to call on each street.
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May 23, 2007 03:05
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CRHCP posted:Off topic here ; might belong in stupid questions I remember my first 15k hands in NL100 was like 8 or 9ptbb/100. I think that was pretty impressive since I was a huge noob and had just started online poker like 6 months earlier. This was around Fall 2005 on Party and pokerroom (yea I played on that crap). The games were reaaaaally soft, but poker has been getting tougher since 2006 in my opinion. The only sites where you can hope to get ptbb/100 anywhere close to 10 is probably Cake, but pokertracker doesn't work there anyway.
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May 23, 2007 03:18
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jhu1e posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXAxcTFxcDGwcTExMzHzYjFzMLCxMM%3d I had something similar today: http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXAxsTFxcbNwcTExMfCxIjFx8bGzcY%3d Had pocket 10's.
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May 23, 2007 03:48
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This is a live hand from a home game a few nights ago that was a bit odd. I think that there was equal value in calling and folding on the flop and turn. .25 / .5 blinds. One straddle for 1.00. I limped with KTo in 2nd position, 1 caller, and rest folded to the sb who called and bb calls the straddle, and the straddle checks. Flop is T 6 4 rainbow. Blinds check, I lead out for 3.00, one fold, sb calls, bb folds, straddler raises to 10.00. I play with everyone here every week so am very familiar with their game. This guy is a decent player, but he is well very often check raise me with top pair / any kicker because I have shown a very wild loose game before. The sb has 12.00 left, and after the bet the straddler has 17.00 behind in him. Thoughts on the flop? Can I call 10.00 with the sb call behind me with only top pair / decent kicker? If I do call how committed am I on the turn. Knowing this guy I am fairly sure that if I call his other 17.00 is in the pot on the turn. This is the street I am most interested in comments on, as I feel it defines how the rest of the hand has to play. I called 10.00. SB moves in for 12.00 total, straddle calls 2.00 more and I call. Turn is a blank with SB all in. Straddler moves all in for 17.00 more. There is about 45.00 in the main pot, plus the new 17.00 for a total of 61.00 approx, 17.00 to call. Here is where I had to think a bit. I ultimately called, justifying my call with the knowledge that he would push something like t9 or jt here trying to push me out and me hu for the main pot. I also consider that he could have flopped two pair (I am not too worried about a set, read dependent), and that I could be way behind and this is a very strong possiblity as well. Is it possible for me to fold to this bet on the turn? Should I have folded on the flop? Everything in this hand seemed so close that I could justify going any direction on any street. Another thought is that the entire way I played this pot is very much based on prior knowledge against this player. Against an unknown how / should this have played differently?
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May 23, 2007 05:30
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cricket eater joe posted:This is a live hand from a home game a few nights ago that was a bit odd. I think that there was equal value in calling and folding on the flop and turn. .25 / .5 blinds. One straddle for 1.00. You: Cover UTG: $30 SB: $18 Preflop: Limping here is really bad. Do you really want to play KTo out of position in a multiway pot? Raising is pretty gross too, especially in a loose game where you're going to get a bunch of callers who have position on you. Even worse, you're likely to get it in because, with the straddle, you effectively have 30 BBs. I definitely just fold this, and I don't think it's close. Flop: Leading the flop is ok, but if UTG is going to checkraise you super light, just stick it in after he checkraises. You're not very deepstacked, and you have top pair good kicker against someone who will call you with worse. Seems like a good situation. Turn: You're getting 1:1 on the sidepot, but you also (hopefully) have some equity in the main pot as well, and in total you're almost getting 4:1 to call. Depending on just how lightly he's checkraising you, and how often he bluffs the turn, it's conceivable that you beat UTG's range at showdown more than 50% of the time. I can't fathom folding this, given the odds.
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May 23, 2007 06:10
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Eratik posted:That's a pretty small range right there. I like how your villain never cbets and checks 44/77 on this flop. How does villain cbet when hero donkbet the flop? But fair enough, assume villain will reraise with a huge range of hands, the best you can probably move his range/equity to is 60/40 and that's only if villain is a complete maniac. Adding 44 and 77 to his range doesn't change his equity much at all. It will probably increase his FE slightly. I am sure more often than not villain is not going to raise 44/77 and is probably more likely to have an overpair here that he probably won't let go on such an innocuous flop. 146,520 games 0.005 secs 29,304,000 games/sec Board: 8s 3c 5c Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 40.987% 40.69% 00.30% 59620 434.00 { 7d6s } Hand 1: 59.013% 58.72% 00.30% 86032 434.00 { 22+, AJs+, Ac8c, KJs+, 9c7c, 7c6c, 6c4c, 4c2c, AJo+, KJo+ }
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May 23, 2007 11:46
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Strong Sauce posted:How does villain cbet when hero donkbet the flop? Sorry, I confused your check-fold recommendation with how the hand actually went down. That's a fine raising range.
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May 23, 2007 14:29
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Hand history didn't get written to file ( Vista), but I need some input on this.Playing .10/.20 NL, 10 handed. I pick up QQ in the SB with ~$22 and villain (no reads, new to the table) was on the button with ~$20. Preflop: 3 limps, villain raises to ~$1.40, I reraise to ~$4.50, limpers fold, villain pauses for a good 5-10 seconds and then calls. Flop comes 9-5-2 rainbow. I make a roughly pot sized bet (~$9.50) and our villain calls. Turn is a 7 and I push my last $8, villain calls. Villain showed KK and it holds up. Would you play this hand differently? I'm still pretty new, but I can't see it being profitable to play hands like this scared that everyone at the table has AA or KK.
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May 27, 2007 10:32
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rath posted:Hand history didn't get written to file ( On the other hand, with the miniraise crowd on cake(unless you're not on cake), 1.4 seems like a big raise preflop so I'd be a little worried. Quid fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 27, 2007 |
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May 27, 2007 11:12
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXAw8TFxcDCwcTExMXDzYjFxsPFwcU%3d Shortstack new to the table, no real read on him, probably a donk. I'm not sure about my line on the turn because calling there seems like it puts you in a horrible situation on the river. He made it easy for me by not pushing which made me pretty confident he was playing a weakish pair and didn't want to stack off.
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May 27, 2007 15:17
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Without a read, I probably fold the turn.
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May 27, 2007 15:19
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Eh, I think that hand would set you up for a great table image with the other stacks for the rather little amount you invested.
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May 28, 2007 10:52
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