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rock2much posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXDxsDDxs3HzcTExMzHxIjHxsHDw8c%3d What'd you have? We only see mucked. Chances are since he didn't take a stab he probably didn't have much. If you raised preflop you could act like you were just trying to steal his blinds so if he's aggressive he may call with anything, but there's not much else you can do.
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Jun 21, 2007 19:29
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXDx8DMx8fCwsTExMTEzIjFx8XAwsw%3d My roommate is ValueTown+EV, and while he doesn't have an account here, he was hoping to get this hand critiqued. Reasoning for the call: "I figured I was on 10 outs if nobody else had a set, getting about 5-1 for my money, that works out to a profitable call."
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Jun 23, 2007 09:33
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13/f/cali posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXDx8DMx8fCwsTExMTEzIjFx8XAwsw%3d I think it's more like 3.8 to one and he needs 3.5 to one which would still be a call, but with that many people I'm sometimes worried about a 2 pair or a higher set. With bottom set I think I let it go but with so many people going all in he got odds to call and it paid off. As far as how he played it, I'm not sure if I like the flop call last to act on that connected of board. Someone's bound to have an ace, and the 120 bet into a 300 pot seems more like a probe or block that I will usually raise. Everyone calls it making it obvious they want to see more cards so I will make it expensive for them in most cases.
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Jun 23, 2007 13:57
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13/f/cali posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXDx8DMx8fCwsTExMTEzIjFx8XAwsw%3d This is a tourney hand, i think, so it should probably go into the other thread. Preflop is bad. Betting 3bb into a pot that already has 2 callers isn't nearly as strong as doing so into an unopened pot. If you are going to raise into several limpers you need to raise bigger, like 5x. With a hand like 2s, though, I want to see a flop as cheaply as possible against as many opponents as I can. That way I can toss them if I don't catch my set and still have minimal loses. If you didnt catch the 2, that would have been $60 you would have had to toss away. edit: On the flop, reraise. You got your set, but it is on a dangerous board. Just calling allows anyone with an ace or a 6 to chase cheaply and Ace/x is a very likely holding with so many preflop callers in the pot. You dont want to take 4 people along with you to the turn or river. on the call, I think you have to assume one of the three people all in before you has you beat. The chances of all of them slow playing a big pocket pair are slim and any other hand they would do that with has you killed. Them not having a set gave you the maximum number of outs by being able to pair the board, but it is still extremely slim chances for your entire stack. It is better to lay it down and wait for a better spot, in my opinion. (As an aside, Joe Beige's bet is hilarious) Pizzlefish fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jun 23, 2007 |
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Jun 23, 2007 14:00
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1/2 No Limit at a real casino. READS : The table is retarded. 8 handed, 2 stones that don't play any hand, 3 complete donkeys, 2 other good solid players (from what i saw I was only there 45 minutes). I am seat 5 , one of the good players is seat 4 , the other good player is seat 10. The stones are seat 1 and 8. Seats 6 and 9 are empty. My 3rd hand at the table i was UTG , I raised to 12 dollers with 10 J suited. Seat 10 reraised to 40 and i folded. He showed AQ, and made a big deal "I always go to 40 with AQ". Again this was one of the solid players, and the way he was making sure I saw the AQ, I thought to myself "next time he does this he'll have a monster". HAND : I have tripled up to almost 500 dollers. I am second in chips. Seat 10 has me covered. Seat 8 has 115 seat 9 has 250. An hour later UTG i get queens. I go to 12 dollers, The stone in seat 8 call, seat 9 calls, seat 10 goes to 40 dollers. the pot is now almost 80 bucks and its 28 to call, so I'm calling for sure, but I decided not to raise fearing AA or KK, but hoping he had JJ or 1010. I figure he has AK, AQ, AA, KK, JJ or TT. I just call hoping to hit a set. 2 calls behind me. Flop Jc 7d 6s . I checked blind (  ), seat 8 and 9 check, and seat 10 goes 150 into the 160 doller pot. What is the right move? jaybird fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jun 24, 2007 |
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Jun 24, 2007 23:19
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jaybird posted:Flop Jc 7d 6s . I checked blind ( Though im not that good at cash games and am really curious what other people will say, my take on this hand: You should have reraised preflop to about 120 to narrow his range. If he rereraises you, you can toss it based on your previous read. Just calling doesn't give you any reads on his hand and keeps you from seeing if your instinct that he is scamming you is correct. It also allows 2 others good odds to see a flop, making it hard to play if an A or K comes. As it stands, you have 3 hands in your possible range that beat you and 3 that don't. You should at this point decide which type he has. If he is ahead, you are drawing really thin. If you are ahead, he has a slightly better chance to improve. If you call his 150 (making the pot 450 and leaving you ~300 if i read correctly), you will most likely have to push it in on the turn or river. If you do decide to call, just go ahead and push and make him make the decision. Personally, I think your read/possible range is a little small since 45 minutes of live play isn't that reliable. If I was in your place on that flop I would push and cry when he flips over aces or kings. Just a pet peeve, but it's "dollar". Pizzlefish fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jun 25, 2007 |
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Jun 24, 2007 23:56
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wow. I have been using doller my whole life . I thought both were acceptable. I also found this gem on wikipedia while confirming i was wrong. "The word buck — possibly an abbreviation of buckskin or buckarooney" As for the hand, I'll wait till a few more people weigh in before i post the results
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Jun 25, 2007 00:55
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First off, I'm gonig to bust out this new "pokerstove" thing Manic Jason showed me.code:I probably would've done the same preflop. On the flop, leading out would've given you some more information. Going on the good player assumption, I can't see him reraising with AK or AQ, but on such a dry flop I can imagine AK/AQ opening if checked to and raised PF. So I'm with Pizzle, I think push/cry is the best route. I don't think AA or JJ would bet so much, so if you're beaten I'm gonna guess it's by KK.
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Jun 25, 2007 04:40
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jaybird posted:1/2 No Limit at a real casino. I think the bet is a little much if he has JJ, AA, or KK and wants to keep people in the pot. You can't really reraise and fold at all and there's a good chance your whole stack is going on the line if you want to play. To me, I think AK/AQ is definitely making this size bet, especially because of his position. I think even AJ is making this bet as he's made top top and he probably wants to take the pot now. By checking behind you missed an opportunity to bet and see how everyone reacted and it put you in a tough spot. I think I'd probably play this, and to be honest I don't know if I'd just call and see what the two behind you do, or shove. If you shove and someone calls there's a good chance you're beat, but if you call you might have some jackass with AJ/KJ sticking around and catching later on. I think I shove and cry if someone calls, although theres a chance the retardo's may call with AJ/KJ and hell maybe even QJ. I'm still pretty new to cash games as well though so I'm curious what the NL200 players have to say.
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Jun 25, 2007 05:22
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Here is how it ended up: I fold. The "stone" in seat 8 calls and is all in. The player in seat 9 folds. Turn comes Kc, River comes 5c. Seat 8 takes it with pocket 8s (1 pair of 8s) Seat 10 shows and had AQos (Ace high) It was a ridiculous hand, I couldn't believe it. If I put my 450 in, I would have made 300 more. Basically all my reads were wrong. The stone loosens up and goes nuts this hand, and the "good player" who i thought was making a great play on me was really just a hack. I still think I made the right choise, but I'd still like to here from anyone with advice. The only mistake I think I made was checking blind. I like to check blind in multi-way pots when im first to act. I do it pretty consistantly, so it's never a tell of how good my hand is. The 1/2 games are so loose that it almost never gets checked behind, so it's just like jumping on the other side of the dealer button. Although doing it here may have cost me the pot.
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Jun 25, 2007 08:09
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How do you fold Queens on a Jack high board. Laughable. P.S. a player that reraises to just 40 after 2 people have called a $12 raise is not "good"
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Jun 25, 2007 10:57
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Here's a a nice suck-out but the result isn't what I'm concerned with. I can't ask for much more than someone pushing QTs into my AA. My question is about my own push. Considering that MP3 raised first and called my first re-raise, would it make sense to merely call the first all-in instead of going all-in right away. I scared MP3 away with my all-in, but I think it's likely that he would have called another 70 cents (hand range was something like JJ,99,88,AK,AJ,KJ I guess; villain has 30% VPIP, 6% PFR). I would have pushed after the flop then and if he hit a pair he probably would have called. Or do we just push pre-flop here and hope he calls anyway? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Something Awful) Button ($4.93) Hero ($3.38) BB ($2.03) UTG ($3.05) UTG+1 ($2.95) MP1 ($7.09) MP2 ($0.63) MP3 ($2.83) CO ($1.04) Preflop: Hero is SB with A  , A  . 4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.04, CO calls $0.04, Button calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.2, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.16, CO raises to $1.04, Button folds, Hero raises to $3.38, MP3 folds. Flop: ($4.68) 6  , T , K  (2 players)Turn: ($4.68) Q (2 players)River: ($4.68) T (2 players)Final Pot: $4.68 Results below: Hero has Ah Ac (two pair, aces and tens). CO has Th Qh (full house, tens full of queens). Outcome: CO wins $4.68.
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Jun 26, 2007 12:06
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It's fine. If someone is gonna call/3-bet 5x my initial raise I don't mind fake pause delay shoving all in. More than enough times at those stakes I'd imagine people think theyre getting fancy with their KK/AK/QQ/JJ hands that way. Don't sweat the small stuff. Stupid beats like that happen and you cant be any happier then getting your money in good.
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Jun 26, 2007 12:14
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Some random hand from FTP 200nl. I cover villain at $173 who just sat down about an orbit ago. Only hand he showed down was opening TT otb, smooth calling a set on the flop, and bet/shoving turn after a check. Folds to villain in SB who raises to $6, I 3bet from BB to $18 with A QFlop (pot $36): 7 K QVillain donks $26, I think for a bit and call. I am hoping for a check/check turn and bluff/call river. If he fires again on a blank turn, I guess I have to fold. Turn (pot $88): 2 Villain checks, I check after a brief pause, intending to call most river bets. River (pot $88): 4 Villain insta-shoves for $129 I hate inducing river bluffs and then folding to them, but a call here might be pretty spewy.
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Jun 26, 2007 13:59
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I would definitely call that river bet MJ. Donking flop and his river shove (if he has Kx or AK what is he trying to get paid by) and the fact that both diamonds and JT missed AND that it was an insta-bet (bluffs tend to be insta-bets more often than bets that are preceded by a pause) make me call.
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Jun 26, 2007 15:39
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jaybird posted:1/2 No Limit at a real casino. Fold. He is betting pot into 3 people, so unless he is a nut he doesn't have AK or AQ. He probably doesn't have TT or 99 either since again, he is betting pot into 3 people with an overcard showing. AA/KK/JJ currently beat you. In addition, you have bad relative position. If you call this bet, one of the other guys could push on you with a set or some unlikely two pair or even a hand like AJ (where you'd often get bluffed off the best hand) and you auto-lose the $150. It's reverse-implieds here. If you only had $150 behind after his pot bet you can stack off most of the time. Here with people behind you and money behind you cannot call. What's even scarier is that a nothing-flop came and he still bets the pot in a multiway hand.
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Jun 26, 2007 15:47
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Psyduck posted:...AND that it was an insta-bet (bluffs tend to be insta-bets more often than bets that are preceded by a pause) make me call. themagicshep has 15 seconds left to act themagicshep bets $129.05 and is all in Does that persuade you against a call?
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Jun 26, 2007 18:20
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ManicJason posted:I just double-checked the hand history, and somehow I was completely wrong about it being an insta-bet. I still snapcall this every time, and usually get shown Q4 
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Jun 26, 2007 18:25
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Well, that makes me feel a bit better. I tanked but just couldn't put him on anything, so I reluctantly called. He showed Ah 9h high  and didn't rebuy 
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Jun 26, 2007 22:22
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXDzcTFxcHExcTExMTFzYjFx8bGzcY%3d Thought he could have easily had a K here, am I right to call down?
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Jun 28, 2007 14:27
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Spechel EDD posted:It's fine. If someone is gonna call/3-bet 5x my initial raise I don't mind fake pause delay shoving all in. More than enough times at those stakes I'd imagine people think theyre getting fancy with their KK/AK/QQ/JJ hands that way. Thank you for your comments.
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Jun 28, 2007 14:48
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?1215650 On the turn and river did I play all right? Should I have not lead out on turn or called on the River? Any comments on any part of the hand are welcomed.
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Jun 28, 2007 16:00
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Malrick posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?1215650 Seems like your play was fine, your bet on the turn was an indication he also had a King or JJ so if you didn't river the boat a check/fold or maybe check/call would have been the correct move. But the River giving you the boat will usually break you every time if he has higher boat, because most of the time he's just gonna have the set with a high kicker or maybe in that situation JJ which you still would have beat on river. Don't feel bad about the play. Cab fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jun 28, 2007 |
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Jun 28, 2007 16:26
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I don't think you really should be calling the flop with more than 1 person in and a drawy-rear end board OOP. That being said, I like the line otherwise, because who slowplays top 2 on this board? He flatcalled the flop and turn, which makes me think more a draw or a set, and your boat on the river makes you go broke. But folding that flop is never a mistake with TPNK OOP. Sure sometime some random J will win at showdown, but the times you dodge coolers like this make up for those small profits.
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Jun 28, 2007 22:34
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If someone's been winning, and your behind in chips, the chip leader often has a penchant for betting more freely. If your playing a cheap buy, amatuer game, and your down on luck and chips, what's a good idea for taking the guy who seems to have limitless luck, and all the chips on the table? I need this advice because we put a small game together, and the one guy we expected to lose, since he never plays, ended up winning it all. We even forced him to stay and play two more hands, and both hands he pulled straights on the river. He played alot of hands, and ended up only making the winning hand on the turn or the river. I'm not bitter at all, I'm only out $14, I just want some professional advice so I can combat this if it happens again.
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Jun 29, 2007 04:46
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why oh why do people think that it is a good idea to post this poo poo here? roughly speaking, this is how you play against retards who play hands too hard/too far. 1) make sure you have the better hand at the time 2) bet as much as they will call 3) ??? 4) profit (in the long run) this much is obvious. now please complain about your bad beats in another thread.
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Jun 29, 2007 05:21
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Basically like blah_blah said, try to make good hands and remember that one pair type hands are worth more against really bad and loose players. Since they are more willing to go crazy with 2nd/3rd/bottom pairs you should be value betting (betting as much as they'll continue to call) the poo poo out of them and reaping profit. They are going to suck out on you but remember if you are ahead the majority of the time you will make money in the long run.
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Jun 29, 2007 07:03
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blah blah how much of a downswing are you on thats causing you to PMS this bad?
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Jun 29, 2007 07:30
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Spechel EDD posted:blah blah how much of a downswing are you on thats causing you to PMS this bad? it's so sick. gone from playing nl2k to getting crushed at nl25 in two months.   on the plus side at least i can  myself to sleep looking at my river AF.
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Jun 29, 2007 08:03
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oh hey my graph 8) just take it easy on these guys blah, most people when they start out dont know better and have to start somewhere to learn edit: xyven its the graph i posted earlier in 2+2 bbv xD Spechel EDD fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jun 29, 2007 |
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Jun 29, 2007 08:29
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Lao Tsu posted:If someone's been winning, and your behind in chips, the chip leader often has a penchant for betting more freely. If your playing a cheap buy, amatuer game, and your down on luck and chips, what's a good idea for taking the guy who seems to have limitless luck, and all the chips on the table? This guy is obviously hustling you out of your hard earned pennies. Wait until the game breaks then wait by his car with a baseball bat. Ask him if he was cheating and when he denies it give him a little whack. Start low, at his shins, and work your way up until he admits that he's a cheating bastard. Then take all the money he has with him and tell him to leave your town and never come back. blah_blah posted:it's so sick. gone from playing nl2k to getting crushed at nl25 in two months. Yeah it's so sick how you can drop down so much in stakes after being completely rolled for such big games and not taking retarded shots at highstakes games against top players. Variance obviously hits players with good bankroll management the hardest. Best of luck my brother
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Jun 29, 2007 08:29
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Xyven posted:Yeah it's so sick how you can drop down so much in stakes after being completely rolled for such big games and not taking retarded shots at highstakes games against top players. Variance obviously hits players with good bankroll management the hardest. Best of luck my brother Forgot to mention that that graph wasn't actually mine and I'm up 4k this summer in like 10k hands and 5 days of actual play. Variance obviously hits players with bad bankroll management the hardest! e: it's not exactly like you have a stellar history of bankroll management either. blah_blah fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jun 29, 2007 |
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Jun 29, 2007 08:35
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blah_blah posted:Forgot to mention that that graph wasn't actually mine and I'm up 4k this summer in like 10k hands and 5 days of actual play. Variance obviously hits players with bad bankroll management the hardest! Actually I have really good bankroll management  My only downfall is being a sick degen at blackjack (and im a losing player too)
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Jun 29, 2007 08:56
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Villain is 30/20/7 over around 100 hands in a previous session. No reads this session yet (2nd or 3rd orbit), first 3-bet pot we've played together. I've won a few small pots without showdown and my JJ beat a shorty's 88 to get my extra chips. Villain hasn't 3bet or shown any hand down since I've been at the table. Hero: ($75.80) BTN Villain: ($96.40) BB Preflop: Hero dealt T TUTG(posted BB) checks, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, SB folds, BB raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.75 Flop: J 9 4 Pot: $12.75Villain bets $8, I generally feel like I play badly in spots like this, so I wanted to see what the PITR brain trust's general line here is without history with villain and no real reads. Edit: This is $.25/%.50 blinds, $2.25 is a PSR with the posted BB UTG. toybux fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jun 29, 2007 |
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Jun 29, 2007 10:29
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In my experience small 3bets are usually monsters. I call and fold to a turn bet usually.
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Jun 29, 2007 10:37
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What are the blinds? $2.25 seems way to small for .50/1 and too big for .25/.50 It's a really difficult spot here because you often have the best hand here more often than not. However, based on the 100 hands you've seen, he raises 20% of his hands. If you assume his range to be the top 15% and his reraising range to be the top 10%. equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 47.791% 47.27% 00.52% 314481 3460.50 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo } Hand 1: 52.209% 51.69% 00.52% 343878 3460.50 { TT } Given that, I think I sometimes call and fold turn if bet into again but sometimes I might raise here to something like ~$18-20 and then just shutdown if he calls. Usually I consider this option if I know the guy to be a habitual c-better and I went to end the hand before something like a Q+ peels off and allows me to fold cheaply if he has AJ. It also puts someone who reraises with KJ in a tough spot considering you can easily have AJ here. Of course this only works if you raise a dry flop with a set or two pair. But barring any reads I will probably call and check fold a strong turn bet. I think a lot of players here will bet very weakly on the turn with AK/AQ hoping to see a cheap river to spike their AK/AQ. Considering the option that if you call you might face a bet that is way bigger than $10 on the turn or river. Raising here might get you cheaper information than calling down if you're content with folding if he reraises your flop raise.
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Jun 29, 2007 12:46
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Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Something Awful) Button ($36.60) SB ($17.05) BB ($25.75) UTG ($31.85) Hero ($87.80) CO ($22.30) Preflop: Hero is MP with Q , K . UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, 3 folds, BB calls $1.75, UTG calls $1.75. Flop: ($7) Q , 7 , 8 (3 players)BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $5, BB calls $5, UTG folds. Turn: ($17) 6 (2 players)BB bets $8, Hero...? I think that my options are pretty much push/fold here. I hate the stack sizes here (villain has about $10 behind after his bet), and I'm not really sure what I beat, but on the other hand his line is kinda weird and I have TPGK. Push'n'pray or dump it? toybux fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jul 3, 2007 |
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Jul 3, 2007 05:34
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nevermind..... misread somehting
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Jul 3, 2007 15:19
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toybux posted:Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Something Awful) I'd dump it. There's really not all that much you can beat at this point -- he could have anything between Aces, Kings, to 66-88, even T9, AQ, or something really stupid like 54 . He could also be protecting a flush draw, 99-TT or a queen with a worse kicker than yours but I doubt it, even if he has a bizzare line. He's committed half his stack, unless he's a complete idiot who doesn't realize what he's doing he wants you to shove.I think it's a lovely spot but without further reads on the guy it would be tough to do anything but fold and move on.
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Jul 4, 2007 04:36
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iddqdlol posted:I'd dump it. There's really not all that much you can beat at this point -- he could have anything between Aces, Kings, to 66-88, even T9, AQ, or something really stupid like 54 On the other hand it's NL50 and the villain has a 50BB stack. This is a very drawy board so he could be semibluffing, or he could be trying to protect QT/QJ. Hell he could be betting J6 for all we know. This is a shooooooovve
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Jul 4, 2007 04:38
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