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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXNw8TFxcDExMTExMXAwYjFx8bGzcY%3d How is my preflop here? I have somewhat of a donk image after I made a bad preflop shove with aq not long before.
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Jul 16, 2007 16:05
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| # ? May 27, 2024 00:42 |
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You don't really have the implied odds needed to call the 4bet unless you stack both of them. I think it's a fold.
rivals fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 16, 2007 |
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Jul 16, 2007 16:29
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Villain liked to limp SB-BB just about any time he got the chance. He liked to overslowplay his big hands (a couple orbits before he 2x bet QQ pf, minbet Qxx rainbow flop, c/c the turn and checked the river (presumably for c/r). I never saw him show a bluff, but it appeared like he was taking most good opportunities given to him. He was in quite a few hands but I never saw him get carried away with bluffs or marginal hands. He had c/f the flop both times we were in this situation before. We each have about a full buyin. Blinds: .25/.50 Folded around to villain, who completes the SB, I check my BB with 5  2 flop: A  Q  3 villain: check Hero: bet $0.95 villain: call $0.95 turn: 7 villain: check Hero: check river: 4 villain: bet $1.4 hero: ? was raise/fold the obvious move here? I'm almost positive it was but knowing what I knew at the time, I still feel some nagging indecision about whether this line was the best, flat call, or raise and call a reraise. He had AJ of clubs. I underestimated exactly how far he was willing to go with slowplays. If I knew he was capable of play THIS weak would that change anything? Should I have known he was capable of that? Should I assume unknowns that I have a similar read on are willing to do this with good and/or weak aces? TheKING fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 16, 2007 |
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Jul 16, 2007 21:51
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TheKING posted:Villain liked to limp SB-BB just about any time he got the chance. He liked to overslowplay his big hands (a couple orbits before he 2x bet QQ pf, minbet Qxx rainbow flop, c/c the turn and checked the river (presumably for c/r). I never saw him show a bluff, but it appeared like he was taking most good opportunities given to him. He was in quite a few hands but I never saw him get carried away with bluffs or marginal hands. He had c/f the flop both times we were in this situation before. I like to lead out a lot of times for pot hu, you'll usually take it down since opponents will typically fold if they whiff (which they do like 70% of the time). It sounds like this guy only calls flops when they hit the board and your hand is poo poo, so check it down and hope you hit your miracle card. Turn check is fine to control potsize, hope your card hits on river. You hit it on river, I doubt they have a flush, it is a possibility since this guy is a slow playing twit, but since they bet river they have/had probably top or 2nd pair since they didn't seem to call without a hand and didn't check to ch/raise you. You are definitely not folding here on river and it is up to you on how much you want to raise, but slightly under pot to PSB sounds good to me. If they do have a flush, you will soon find out but I think this is a fine spot to value bet and hope top pair/2 pair/things you beat pay you off since you are ahead a ton here.
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Jul 16, 2007 22:05
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I can't read.
Eratik fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jul 16, 2007 |
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Jul 16, 2007 22:05
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Eratik posted:Not sure why you think this is a raise or fold situation. I think he meant raise and fold to a shove.
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Jul 16, 2007 22:22
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Cactus Jack posted:I like to lead out a lot of times for pot hu, you'll usually take it down since opponents will typically fold if they whiff (which they do like 70% of the time). It sounds like this guy only calls flops when they hit the board and your hand is poo poo, so check it down and hope you hit your miracle card. I'm confused, aren't the reasons you listed why I should bet the flop? He has seemingly no standards for completing the SB, has c/f the past 2, so he's probably not going to call this unless he has at least a Q or fd, which as you stated, he won't have most of the time. And in the event that my 4 does hit and he has a big hand, I have already built the pot from the pathetic 2 BB it was at. Edit: p0isonxfree posted:I think he meant raise and fold to a shove. Yea, I was basically asking if I should fold if this guy puts in a big reraise. I wouldn't even know what to think if this guy did it since he's such a bizarre fish (I would still think it was a flush), but most half-way decent players I've seen are going to have at least a set when they reraise there, and often will only reraise flushes. I would still probably call a small reraise, but a big reraise in this spot would make me groan. \/\/\/\/\/ "...when they hit the board and your hand is poo poo, so check it down and hope you hit your miracle card. Turn check is fine to control potsize, hope your card hits on river." the way your advice flowed from flop to turn confused me, it sounded like you were still talking about the flop since you ended the sentence like that. TheKING fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 16, 2007 |
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Jul 16, 2007 22:25
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TheKING posted:I'm confused, aren't the reasons you listed why I should bet the flop? He has seemingly no standards for completing the SB, has c/f the past 2, so he's probably not going to call this unless he has at least a Q or fd, which as you stated, he won't have most of the time. And in the event that my 4 does hit and he has a big hand, I have already built the pot from the pathetic 2 BB it was at. That is what I said  Once you bet the flop, you know he has something and thus I like the turn check and not the 2nd barrel. I guess I phrased it weirdly!
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Jul 16, 2007 22:27
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Ok there was a lot of confusion and I didn't really get my main question answered, so we'll just hypothetically go from here, with all the reads we had. river: 4 Pot: $2.85 villain: bet $1.40 hero: raise $6.75 villain: raise $21.50 hero: ??? We know he would definitely slowplay a set, but would also likely call then slowplay a flush. Although the flush seems to best fit this play and I haven't seen him make any outrageous bluffs yet, he's also a bad player and might not realize that his set/2pair has gone down value at this point. Also, since he's a bad player, doing something completely ridiculous is still a possibility even though it doesn't fit his play so far. So am I up against set/something retarded often enough to make this call?
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Jul 16, 2007 23:14
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TheKING posted:Ok there was a lot of confusion and I didn't really get my main question answered, so we'll just hypothetically go from here, with all the reads we had.
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Jul 17, 2007 00:55
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If that is a bluff it is a crazy one and you are behind way too much of the time to call.
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Jul 17, 2007 03:26
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sdfsdf posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcXNwcTFxc3DzMTExcfDwojFzMXHwsY%3d Against d7 I fold the river, but he plays really REALLY nitty against me. I think he plans to catch me bluffing off my stack or something. I dunno what sort of metagame you have against him, but if I was in your position this would be a really easy fold. edit: why don't you 3bet preflop? Against d7 this is really good because he pretty much never 4bets preflop and he folds so much you make a bunch preflop and if he calls you can play almost perfectly against his AK/JJ+
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Jul 17, 2007 07:10
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1-2NL Live (8 handed) Stack Avg is ~200 BB I have JJ on the button and reraise it from the $4 straddle ->20; two callers flop: 4, 7, 9 rainbow. CO bets $35, I flat call (which was probably loving dumb) my reasoning being that I had made a lot of cbets on bare flops and been able to turn or river one of my overs and had to show this down a couple times tonight; so I am thinking that I can get paid since it looks like my AK/AQ missed completely. other guy folds I have 400BB and villain has 250BB turn: 4 he bets $50, I call river: 2 he bets $125......me? basically, I feel like I butchered this hand; should have probably reraised on the flop, at the same time I am feeling like I might be up against a set. Should I be pushing harder or folding somewhere along here? **no real reads on the guy, got his hand caught a couple times trying to overplay hands/semi bluffing but overall pretty decent. tgm fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jul 19, 2007 |
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Jul 19, 2007 07:57
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tgm posted:1-2NL Live (8 handed) live? super-fast call.
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Jul 19, 2007 08:14
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The turn bet seems very weak to me and the river isn't helping anything at all really. I'd call the river, I think you're good here more then you are behind.
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Jul 19, 2007 09:01
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6 Man Live NL 25/50 Hero ($12,000): UTG Villian ($4,500): Button Hero dealt [AA] Hero: Raise to $250 Fold Fold Villian Calls SB Fold BB Fold Pot $575 Flop: A44r Hero: Bet $350 Villian: Calls Pot: $1275 Turn: Kc Hero: Bet $800 Villian: ALL IN Call or fold? Hero calls. Villian shows 44 for QUADS and wins $9000 pot. Is there any way to get off of top boat? This is a sick sick beat that a friend of mine experienced the other night at a casino here.
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Jul 19, 2007 15:45
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perfmode posted:6 Man Live NL 25/50 come on what is this post? second nuts and you're looking for a fold somewhere? tell your friend to move down if he thinks there is a fold anywhere in this hand.
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Jul 19, 2007 15:49
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perfmode posted:6 Man Live NL 25/50 There is exactly 1 out of ~1300 possible starting hand combinations that could beat him at that point. If he isn't beat but is up against a set, the chance to river quads is 1/44. Every other situation he is unbeatable. There is no possible way you can fold with those odds. what the hell?
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Jul 19, 2007 16:19
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I wasn't debating whether he should fold or not. This is a hand that you have to take in stride and make sure that you don't let it get to you. There's no way to avoid it. This probably should have gone in BBV.
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Jul 19, 2007 16:24
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perfmode posted:Call or fold? perfmode posted:I wasn't debating whether he should fold or not. What?
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Jul 19, 2007 16:41
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perfmode posted:6 Man Live NL 25/50 fold preflop fold flop you're obviously behind
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Jul 19, 2007 17:09
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perfmode posted:I wasn't debating whether he should fold or not. This is a hand that you have to take in stride and make sure that you don't let it get to you. ^The No Limit Hold'Em Critique Thread in conclusion, go gently caress yourself and stop posting hands that never happened ('a friend of mine'? 'the other night'? 'a casino here'?)
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Jul 19, 2007 18:02
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blah_blah posted:^The No Limit Hold'Em Critique Thread Wow, you're being pretty aggressive. I wouldn't post a hand that never happened. The hand happened two nights ago at the "Players' Members Club" on Ariapita Ave in Woodbrook, Trinidad. It was a 25/50 game with $2000 buy-in, in our local currency.
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Jul 19, 2007 18:16
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perfmode posted:Wow, you're being pretty aggressive. I wouldn't post a hand that never happened. So this is basically like a 1/2 game in some weird moon money. Yeah, I think folding top boat in a smallstakes NLHE game for <100bb is a GREAT idea
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Jul 19, 2007 18:23
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Xyven posted:So this is basically like a 1/2 game in some weird moon money. Yeah, I think folding top boat in a smallstakes NLHE game for <100bb is a GREAT idea Exchange rate is 6.3 TTD : 1 USD. Basically 3/6 with $300 buy-ins.
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Jul 19, 2007 19:10
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That is the stupidest hand to be posted in here, which is really saying something.
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Jul 19, 2007 19:45
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tgm posted:1-2NL Live (8 handed)
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Jul 19, 2007 20:07
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InfuriatedMicrowave posted:voltron posted:live? super-fast call. I called, he flipped over A4.
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Jul 19, 2007 21:20
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Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (http://www.legopoker.com/hh) SB: $288.50 BB: $200.00 Hero (UTG): $227.45 MP: $222.00 CO: $193.15 BTN: $532.00 Preflop: Hero is dealt Qh Ac (6 Players) Hero raises to $7.00, 3 folds, SB calls $6.00, BB folds Flop: ($16) 6s 7c Qd (2 Players) SB bets $11.00, Hero calls $11.00 Turn: ($38) 8d (2 Players) SB bets $27.00, Hero calls $27.00 River: ($92) 6d (2 Players) SB bets all-in for $243.50, Hero folds Uncalled bet of $243.50 returned to SB Pot Size: $92.00 ($3 Rake) TheDivineRod fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 19, 2007 |
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Jul 19, 2007 21:32
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TheDivineRod posted:Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (http://www.legopoker.com/hh) raise flop to $36 and re-eval turn -- may or may not fold to push depending on opponent -- read dependent. voltron fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jul 19, 2007 |
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Jul 19, 2007 22:28
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voltron posted:raise flop to $36 and re-eval turn -- may or may not fold to push depending on opponent -- read dependent. Doesn't raising fold out almost any hand we beat? Villan seems fairly solid. I can see an argument for raising if it will help us save money on later streets, but when someone bets into the raiser like this it is usually either a very strong hand or a marginal one. Also, is there a good hand converter for these forums? The link at the top of the thread is broken.
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Jul 19, 2007 23:41
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TheDivineRod posted:Doesn't raising fold out almost any hand we beat? Villan seems fairly solid. I can see an argument for raising if it will help us save money on later streets, but when someone bets into the raiser like this it is usually either a very strong hand or a marginal one. ok then since you have a read, fold???
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Jul 20, 2007 05:04
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TheDivineRod posted:Also, is there a good hand converter for these forums? pokerhand.org is god
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Jul 20, 2007 10:17
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TheDivineRod posted:Doesn't raising fold out almost any hand we beat? Villan seems fairly solid. I can see an argument for raising if it will help us save money on later streets, but when someone bets into the raiser like this it is usually either a very strong hand or a marginal one. Second best hands probably aren't folding to you unless they're Qs low kicker (which is the lower rung of the "made hand" range and if that's the case, if he spikes two pair it'll be well concealed), if he's on a draw it makes it more expensive for him (and if he checks the turn and you smell a busted draw you can bet it out heavy and win right there), and if he comes back over the top heavily it could indicate a monster and save you money. Raising on the flop unless guy is an obscene maniac is probably right.
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Jul 20, 2007 14:37
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Calling down is OK most of the time, raising is OK sometimes. You can raise if you want to play a big pot against someone who will pay off light. The problem with 'raising to see where youre at' and folding to a 3bet is that it usually isn't much cheaper than calling down(in this case he kinda went crazy on the river), you still don't always know where you're at, and you dont get a chance to improve your hand. Calling down in this spot is usually standard for pot control. In this case, the pot got kinda out of control so it looks like you don't have the best hand. Basically, you need some type of read as to whether you TPTK is a 'big pot' hand vs. this opponent, based on flop texture and your opponent. Against most good players, competent players, some bad players, and unknown players you probably cant be comfortable playing a big pot here, so calling down is fine. Then you have to fold the river. Against tards and maniacs you want to play a big pot, so raise the flop. Against passive calling stations you can do this too but fold if they bet at you again.
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Jul 20, 2007 16:58
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TheDivineRod posted:Doesn't raising fold out almost any hand we beat? Villan seems fairly solid.
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Jul 20, 2007 17:23
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I would just like to point out that if villain folds any hand worse than AQ on that board, you should bluff with ATC because the only reasonable hands that meet that definition are 66/77/67, aka a very small portion of his range. I think I'm fine with a flop raise so you can charge OESDs plus get people with KQ/QJ to pay off something. If called and check to on the turn, I will check behind sometimes or bet sometimes depending on the villain. If I check behind, it is with the intent of calling a bet on most rivers, though a K/J/T/5 are cards I don't really want to see very much.
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Jul 20, 2007 20:34
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toybux posted:I would just like to point out that if villain folds any hand worse than AQ on that board, you should bluff with ATC because the only reasonable hands that meet that definition are 66/77/67, aka a very small portion of his range. I think that in a vacume raising donkbets on dry boards with any two is a winning play, and something I do. Of course, once we start doing this regularly people notice and it stops being a winnign play. It is definitely a good play some % of the time though. And if we are going to do it a certain % of the time, we may as well do it with weak draws like overcards and gutshots rather than random crap.
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Jul 20, 2007 20:51
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I think this might have been a really stupid call, but at the time I thought the pot odds were in my favor. Was I way off base with my calls? Edit: I had like 1000 chips left after my last call. http://www.pokerhand.org/?1284453 Not UNIX fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 21, 2007 |
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Jul 21, 2007 03:46
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| # ? May 27, 2024 00:42 |
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Seat 1: Klyph ($59.15) Seat 2: jumbahjuice ($67) Seat 3: mw2382 ($41.85) Seat 4: Meon83 ($36.60) Seat 5: Keystoned ($49.50) Seat 6: FCS Tech ($18.15) Seat 7: WosHiNi88 ($26.95) Seat 8: 1bankhead1 ($4.40) Seat 9: VBDave ($37.40) mw2382 posts the small blind of $0.25 Meon83 posts the big blind of $0.50 The button is in seat #2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Keystoned [Jh Jd] Keystoned raises to $2.50 FCS Tech folds WosHiNi88 folds 1bankhead1 folds VBDave folds Klyph has 15 seconds left to act Klyph calls $2.50 jumbahjuice folds mw2382 folds Meon83 folds *** FLOP *** [3s 7h 4s] Keystoned bets $3 Klyph calls $3 *** TURN *** [3s 7h 4s] [8h] Keystoned bets $8 Klyph has 15 seconds left to act Klyph calls $8 *** RIVER *** [3s 7h 4s 8h] [6s] Keystoned checks Klyph bets $27.75 Keystoned has 15 seconds left to act Keystoned has requested TIME Keystoned is sitting out Keystoned has timed out Keystoned folds Uncalled bet of $27.75 returned to Klyph This is all completely standard right? The only questionable part is the small flop bet with an overpair, which I was trying to represent a missed continuation bet.
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Jul 21, 2007 06:03
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