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I guess we've just had different experiences then. If I see someone call light like that when I check through the river I'll make a note of it though, but I would think I would have already had them marked as a fish if they c/c two streets on that board. They've probably done other things bad by then to designate them as a station, and if that were the case I would hardly be 2-barreling them ever, or even 1-barreling them if they're extremely station-y. With AK that is.
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Jul 29, 2007 06:58
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| # ? May 23, 2024 15:33 |
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Just hit a bit of an aggravating hand at NL50 on Cake, was wondering how you would suggest approaching this one since I seem to have bombed it pretty badly: ARGH cake's HH won't work, so description: .25/.50, ten players sitting, I'm in seat 6, seat 10 has button. Seat 5 (~ $40) limps. I (~$60) have 6s 9h, I raise to 1.30 because the table's quiet and tends to fold out to my preflop raises. Seat 2 (~ $35) calls from the Bb. Seat 5 calls. FLOP: 7d 8c 5d. best i could possibly hope for. Seat 2 bets to 1.7. Seat 5 calls. I call. TURN [7d 8c 5d] 3d. Seat 2 checks. Seat 5 checks. I raise to 2.2. Seat 2 folds. Seat 5 calls. RIVER [7d 8c 5d 3d] Kh. Seat 5 checks. I bet 1.5. Seat 5 calls, shows Td 9d. Is there a better way to avoid that one? I considered checking behind the river, eventually deciding to underbet it and consider putting it away to a re-raise which never came. Is there a blatant warning sign in the pattern that I'm just missing? Is a flat call on the flop really asking for it there? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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Aug 2, 2007 14:53
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Value Town posted:Just hit a bit of an aggravating hand at NL50 on Cake, was wondering how you would suggest approaching this one since I seem to have bombed it pretty badly: quote:Seat 2 (~ $35) calls from the Bb. HEY quote:Seat 2 bets to 1.7. quote:I call. quote:TURN [7d 8c 5d] 3d. A bet of 2.2 into a 9 dollar pot. This sucks. How are you going to take people to valuetown if you don't put money in the pot. You aren't even betting flush draws out of the pot. sucks sucks sucks sucks quote:RIVER [7d 8c 5d 3d] Kh. quote:Is there a better way to avoid that one? quote:I considered checking behind the river, eventually deciding to underbet it and consider putting it away to a re-raise which never came. quote:Is there a blatant warning sign in the pattern that I'm just missing? quote:Is a flat call on the flop really asking for it there? quote:Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. edit: Also, underbetting and folding to a raise with this type of hand is always terrible. Your underbet is pretty much representing a cheap bluff, so it will induce raises with weaker hands and bluffs. If you really want to bet and fold to a raise then make a significant river(or turn) bet. Not that I would advocate folding to a raise anyways, in general. Eratik fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 2, 2007 |
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Aug 2, 2007 16:22
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it's almost impossible to imagine a situation where you should just call on the flop after flopping the weakest possible nut type hand. make it like $10 to go. even as played, I think you need to bet the river. of course the dynamics of the hand change completely if you play it in a non-retarded manner so advice on the turn and river is meaningless, since you played the hand a lot like a bad, loose passive player would play a flush draw, and hence managed to lose almost the minimum.
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Aug 2, 2007 19:33
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live 1/2, 4 handed villain in this hand is super aggro with nut and near nut hands. never raises preflop and tends to play TPGK type hands fairly passively. I've never seen him bluff but who knows, right? I open from UTG to 10 with AKhh, villain calls, one of the blinds call. Flop is Ks Th 9h blind leads for 20, I make it 55 to go, villain shoves for about 250 more  , blind folds, I ???
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Aug 4, 2007 19:26
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call. fast.
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Aug 4, 2007 19:46
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It looks like you're getting like 350:250 or so, and you are probably drawing to 9 outs a lot, but whatever. I call.
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Aug 4, 2007 19:54
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I'm getting 400:250 (8:5), so I need about 38% in equity. to be honest the problem is that I don't really know what kind of range to put him on. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't play a big draw this fast. I think that the nuts are by far his most likely hand, which is fine (I should call here against all Jx Qx hands except Jh Qh), although it's almost EV neutral. I guess if I give him a range of {Jx Qx, TT,99,KT,K9,AA(?),AK(?!?!)}, I have to snap call - but I really want to give him a range of {Jx Qx, TT,99} which I have to fold against. I probably fold getting 350:250; I need 42% equity and like, the only hands that I have that much equity against are the two pair hands that I suspect aren't even in his range here.
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Aug 4, 2007 20:25
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blah_blah posted:I probably fold getting 350:250; I need 42% equity and like, the only hands that I have that much equity against are the two pair hands that I suspect aren't even in his range here. Yeah, that's what I was thinking is that his range is probably QJ, TT, 99 and maybe KT, K9, T9s[?] with the 2pr hands given less weight which kindof sucks.
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Aug 4, 2007 20:46
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I agree with this being an easy call. His range is so much wider than set/QJ, I think this is a reasonable expectation of his range given pf and flop lines:code:
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Aug 4, 2007 21:10
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solbaid posted:I agree with this being an easy call. His range is so much wider than set/QJ, I think this is a reasonable expectation of his range given pf and flop lines: He said he plays his nut/near nut hands fast, other hands passively. TPTK is a passive hand for him, so you can't include it in his range just because you want to.
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Aug 7, 2007 18:40
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I just remembered that later in the session he b/3b shoved 83dd on a 853 rainbow board in a battle of the blinds. So I think that his range is probably {Jx Qx, TT,99,KT,K9}, and I have to call against this range. fwiw I called and he had JQo.
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Aug 7, 2007 19:43
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two more live 1/2 hands, both are 6 or 7 handed. Hand 1: I have Ac Tx in the SB, folds around to button who raises to $10, I call, BB calls. Flop is 5x 7c Tc I bet $25, BB calls, button folds. Turn is 8c I check really fast without a plan  (c/c? c/r?) My read on BB is that he's pretty solid postflop. I haven't seen him coldcall raises much pf although he is asian and likes to limp in multiway pots. BB checks.River is an offsuit 5, I check again and BB bets $120, so I ??? Hand 2: I have A5dd in the SB, folds around to me, I raise to $8, BB (same BB as last hand) calls. Flop is KK8 with a flush draw (not my suit). I check, BB checks. Turn is an offsuit 9, I check, BB bets $20, I call. River is a 4 completing the flush draw, BB bets $50, I ??? e: just posting results because I didn't do so before. In hand one I folded pretty quick, in hand two I called and beat JTo 
blah_blah fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Aug 17, 2007 |
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Aug 8, 2007 02:40
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In hand one if you don't lead that turn I like check raising a lot more than check calling. If he calls the raise then you will find out pretty quickly that one pair isn't good but can still build a pot if you hit the flush on the river. Just calling here allows him to fire again on any nonclub river with a wide range that generally still has you beat but leaves you with a tough decision. Since he just checked behind here though his play is pretty weird. As it played out I probably just fold this river because the turn filled up a lot of draws even after his check behind. He could have just checked to induce a bluff or somehow caught a big piece of that five with a dumb slowplayed set that got a bit scared on the turn(since he's solid you can mostly rule the latter out though). If I'm doing the math here correctly that's a pretty big river overbet without really ever showing a lot of strength but without a specific read I almost always fold. In hand 2 I would probably bet this flop almost always unless my opponent has been playing back at me. As it turned out the river is probably a fold. Even if he's bluffing, he needs to be bluffing with queen high or a really weak ace for you to win. You could try getting crazy and raise this river but that's normally spewing quite a bit
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Aug 8, 2007 04:16
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I'm mostly asking for advice on the river decisions. In hand 1 betting the turn is probably my default most of the time, and I'm not entirely sure why I checked (prob wanted to river the nuts for cheap), but I felt like he could definitely shove over a bet and I didn't want to get put in that spot. In hand 2 I felt like he had been floating me sometimes and getting a little out of line so I mixed things up by checking. I was definitely considering c/ring him if he bet the flop. I agree that a cbet is very standard and in a vacuum it's my default play.
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Aug 8, 2007 06:58
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Hand 1: I think check/calling the turn is a lot better then betting or checkraising vs. anyone who is competent postflop. The river is a tough spot since he really shouldnt be checking the turn here with anything that beats you. On the other hand, he just overbet the pot on a pretty coordinated board. If you haven't seen him make any bluffs or suspicious overbets before I think this has to be a fold. Hand 2: I just bet the flop and fold the turn/river. Being OOP sucks. Make mental note to checkraise this guy later.
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Aug 8, 2007 13:30
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e: thanks for the reply joboo but I just noticed this is the wrong thread
ZeroStar fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Aug 9, 2007 |
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Aug 9, 2007 02:42
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EDIT:Moved to correct thread.
joboo002 fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Aug 9, 2007 |
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Aug 9, 2007 03:13
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Any thoughts on this hand? I had no reads coming into it. Is it a complete spew? http://www.pokerhand.org/?1349391 With his RR pre-flop, I should have probably let this go on the flop.
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Aug 9, 2007 05:23
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perfmode posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?1349391 I just c/f flop as a default here without a read. If you are going to try anything else, lead flop and shut down to resistance.
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Aug 9, 2007 05:29
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I think I have a habit of overplaying medium pocket pairs after the flop. I tend to overvalue them mentally.
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Aug 9, 2007 07:07
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If you're in position and he's an aggro player it can be good to call his cbet on a flop like that since it misses a lot of his 3betting range.
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Aug 9, 2007 07:13
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Someone tell me how to not be a passive donk? http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcbGxcTFxcPEzMTExMfNxYjFxsPCxMw%3d
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Aug 9, 2007 19:34
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Ranma4703 posted:Someone tell me how to not be a passive donk? holy god what are you thinking here? you can get it in without remorse on literally any street there, but river is probably the worst. you river a backdoor flush (the third nuts), and the river is an ace which is good if he has AT or A8 or whatever, and you check behind? Bet $25, call a shove obv. I guess the flop call can be fine sometimes, but raising and calling a shove has to be your default on the flop, and when villain checks the turn, you pretty much have to fire (and again, call a shove)
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Aug 9, 2007 21:06
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You could raise flop, or even shove over the ch/ra after you call although that is meh, but hey it is Cake! Bet turn, unless you think he is on exactly QT/J9/Q8 (yeah right). Bet the loving river, what do you think you are losing to? No paired board for boat possibilities and you backdoored a flush, that is some disguised rear end poo poo dude, and the A may have hit their hand so they'd call. Even the nittiest nit who ever nitted should bet that river. Edit: Like blah_blah said, you should be trying to get all your chips in the middle at some point in this hand. Cactus Jack fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Aug 9, 2007 |
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Aug 9, 2007 21:07
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Here's how bad I am/was playing: I didn't realize I had the flush until you told me, I thought I had two pair.
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Aug 9, 2007 21:50
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perfmode posted:Any thoughts on this hand? I had no reads coming into it. Is it a complete spew? I would checkraise that a good amount of the time if he'll immediately let go of overcards, which is his most likely hand. Those flops where it's one paint and two low cards are the best boards to checkraise air or float with, so you should a lot to keep him from robbing you with cbets on flops like this where you have a great chance of being ahead (although note that if he calls or reraises you you're probably done so it's not really relevant what your cards are because no matter what you're probably behind if he plays back at you) Of course you can't do it like everytime or he's going to start calling and shoving turns on you if he's a thinking player, but get in the habit of looking to checkraise people's cbets when there's a good chance they didn't hit. Note I would do this if I had like I would also not mind if you donked or check/folded, but check/calling is by far the worst play you could make here, since you have to be afraid of any card higher than a jack and you really just won't know where you stand at all, and you'll be out of position. Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Aug 9, 2007 |
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Aug 9, 2007 22:02
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Stefan Prodan posted:I would checkraise that a good amount of the time if he'll immediately let go of overcards, which is his most likely hand. Those flops where it's one paint and two low cards are the best boards to checkraise air or float with, so you should a lot to keep him from robbing you with cbets on flops like this where you have a great chance of being ahead (although note that if he calls or reraises you you're probably done so it's not really relevant what your cards are because no matter what you're probably behind if he plays back at you) I see how a check-raise is a better idea than betting outright in this situation. The C/R is much more threatening, and overcards will still call an outright bet to see if I'll fire another shot. I have a couple questions. What do you mean by "paint"? Do you mean two suited cards on the flop? Could you define floating for me? I think I know what that is but I'm not 100% sure.
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Aug 9, 2007 22:45
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I just had that exact kind of hand- I had 99 and opened the pot, one caller on the button. Flop was K22. I bet out, and after a long pause he called. Turn was a 4. That pause made me bet, something like half the pot. I was hoping he has something like TT or JJ and didn't like the K. Another long pause, he called and said "your AK is good". River was an 8. At this point I just checked, and he checked behind with KQ. I guess my image was good, but not good enough to make him fold, feh. Still, he hesitated an awful lot for having KQ.
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Aug 9, 2007 23:14
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perfmode posted:I see how a check-raise is a better idea than betting outright in this situation. The C/R is much more threatening, and overcards will still call an outright bet to see if I'll fire another shot. Paint is any face card and floating is calling a flop bet in position typically without much of a hand so that you can steal the pot when checked to on the turn.
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Aug 10, 2007 00:13
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcbGxcTFxcDHwcTExMPGxojFw8zDwcM%3d Is there any way I SHOULDN'T slowplay this? They were a aggressive table and thought there was no way I was beat. Sure I could have taken it down postflop/turn but I was waiting for a stab that never came.
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Aug 10, 2007 01:56
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Bet the turn, QJ just made a full house and the flush draw hit and AT made a straight. Go broke on the river every time.
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Aug 10, 2007 02:05
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Ranma4703 posted:Bet the turn, QJ just made a full house and the flush draw hit and AT made a straight. Go broke on the river every time. Yeah, a hand both of which I'm dominating. I was hoping he would bet that then planning on a reraise.
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Aug 10, 2007 02:11
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Deft posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcbGxcTFxcDHwcTExMPGxojFw8zDwcM%3d Slowplaying is fine, the only hands you really need to worry about outdrawing you are AA/AQ (two or three outs) or a very unlikely royal flush. If you're against KK you're going broke no matter what. Any heavy betting most likely means you're against a straight, a flush or a weaker full house. I'd bet the turn and hope to get raised by one of the draws that came in, but going for a c/r isn't horrible either. On the river, yeah, you're going broke every time. Psychosis fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Aug 10, 2007 |
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Aug 10, 2007 14:12
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Deft posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcbGxcTFxcDHwcTExMPGxojFw8zDwcM%3d if youre not gonna c/r an aggressive table here then please dont bet this flop like a bitch edit: very weak bitch just to clarify
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Aug 11, 2007 04:46
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OK this guy is a maniac but still, I can't bet here can I? Even lovely hands crush me http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcbGx8TFxcDHxMTExMLAzYjFxszFwsQ%3d Matt berated me for the check but I mean, I can't beat a drat thing
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Aug 12, 2007 08:06
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Ribsauce posted:OK this guy is a maniac but still, I can't bet here can I? Even lovely hands crush me the river check is alright, though there's probably value in a bet. btw your 4bet raise size pf is really bad. make it $8 (you didn't even repot him!) and bet $11 or $12 on the flop; this makes the pot nearly $40 going to the turn and you can just shove or whatever. as played I go for the stackadonk line on the turn.
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Aug 12, 2007 09:40
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NL10 on Cake, I'm one off the button with TT. It folds around to me and I make it .40 to go, 4 times the big blind. I get called by SB, BB, and UTG. This raise may have looked like a steal because I made another raise the hand before in the exact same situation, 1 caller and he folded to a cbet on the flop. Flop comes 686ss, and SB leads out right away for the pot ($1.55). The other two fold and I think for a while before calling. The turn is the 9 of spades, putting 3 to a flush out. SB leads out for the pot again which is $4.50 at this point and I ultimately fold. My only reads on him are that he might be a little tricky, I had seen him make stupid minbets with nothing on the flop and turn before, and he was limping a lot in any position. Is calling to see if he slows down on the turn ever a good option, or is raising the flop to see where I'm at best? Should I ever fold on the flop?
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Aug 18, 2007 10:25
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The 4bb raise probably didn't look like a pure steal with an utg limper already in the pot. If he had a 6 he'd probably go for a c/r against the preflop raiser in a 4-handed pot. SB's bet looks like a random small pocket pair or a top pair hand like 89. Raise the flop.
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Aug 18, 2007 11:24
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| # ? May 23, 2024 15:33 |
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Ah poo poo nevermind.
l0lwhat fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Aug 19, 2007 |
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Aug 19, 2007 15:30
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