|
flick posted:
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2007 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 00:13 |
|
|
BigHead posted:Cake poker hand, NL50 ugh this hand is horrible. Raising the flop with your trashy hand into the pfr really sucks, and check behind the turn since like half the cards in the deck will make you puke on the river if the pot becomes huge. If you bet don't call a shove. flick posted:Standard? I've been trying to get better at folding overpairs to a lot of aggression on the flop. I lose way too much money to sets and two pair when I hold AA. Without reads I call here. You're almost getting 2-1 and you are ahead of big kings and some draws are probably in his range. blah_blah fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Oct 11, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2007 23:29
|
|
|
flick posted:Anyway here is my hand: http://tinyurl.com/ytkpu8 To expand on what ultimatemike said, his range is way greater than 88/99. To figure it out exactly you should tell us if you held the As. To me his range of the preflop btn cold call and flop shove is the following, assuming if you didn't have the As: 88, 99, AsJs, AsQs, JsQs, AK, TJs(all of them), maybe 89s, maybe 1 combo of KK/AA. KK/AA is less likely because if he's the type of player to slowplay those hands preflop he's not shoving that flop. I don't have the program here but I'm pretty sure if you plug them into pokerstove you have enough equity to call. Even if you had the As and remove all the ace suited hands and take out the TJs/89s (if you think its unlikey) it's probably still a +EV call according to the pot odds you were getting. If someone wants to run it we can find out if I'm right. edit: and like blah_blah said theres a small chance of a big K like KQs, and the donkey "I'm going to flatcall with my monster QQ, oh crap an overcard I'm going to shove" type of plays. HKS fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Oct 11, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2007 23:38
|
|
|
flick posted:Why are you calling a raise out of position with A9? Limping is probably fine unless this is an aggressive table with lots of raising (I don't play full ring so not sure about that one) but playing ace with weak kicker oop is just asking for trouble. Call the push, you're good here enough, a push is almost never a set from what I've seen, they try to trap you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2007 00:42
|
|
|
NL50 Stack sizes are 65$, villian is loose/cs, has seen me bluff recently. He limps UTG, I raise to 2.25$ in the c/o with 89s, everyone folds but him. Flop comes out: 9h 4s As He checks, I bet 4$, he calls turn is 6c he overbets the pot 13.25$, pot was 12$ I call river is a 3d he checks, I check. Standard?
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2007 22:06
|
|
|
Ranma4703 posted:Standard? Yeah. I don't think there's a lot of value in betting the river given that he donked the turn (usually turn donks mean that they picked up two pair or a combo draw in my experience).
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2007 23:02
|
|
|
blah_blah posted:Yeah. I don't think there's a lot of value in betting the river given that he donked the turn (usually turn donks mean that they picked up two pair or a combo draw in my experience). I posted it on 2+2 and someone was questioning my call on the turn... That is an insta call, right? I have like 14 outs to a probable better hand, and 9 outs to an almost definite better hand.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2007 18:29
|
|
|
Ranma4703 posted:I posted it on 2+2 and someone was questioning my call on the turn... That is an insta call, right? I have like 14 outs to a probable better hand, and 9 outs to an almost definite better hand. It's iffy. You are getting ~1.9 to 1, meaning oddswise you should be winning ~35 percent of the time to make the call. If you have 14 outs, you are winning about 28%. 9 outs give you 18%. I don't think the amount of times you are ahead here are enough to offset your odds back up over 35%. If you knew you had 14 outs or he was bluffing a flush draw or similar, and you knew he would call off if you catch the flush or are ahead, it might be worth it. As it stands, I don't think you have the implied odds to make the call. \/\/\/ Ahh, interesting. Pizzlefish fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Oct 14, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2007 22:25
|
|
|
Pizzlefish posted:It's iffy. You are getting ~1.9 to 1, meaning oddswise you should be winning ~35 percent of the time to make the call. If you have 14 outs, you are winning about 28%. 9 outs give you 18%. I don't think the amount of times you are ahead here are enough to offset your odds back up over 35%. IMPLIED ODDS
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2007 22:42
|
|
|
Ranma4703 posted:I posted it on 2+2 and someone was questioning my call on the turn... That is an insta call, right? I have like 14 outs to a probable better hand, and 9 outs to an almost definite better hand. your average posting 2p2 SSNLer is too busy playing other 19/15 2p2ers on FTP/Stars and wondering whether to open fold AQo UTG to understand the 'dynamics' of cake NL50. The implied odds make it an easy call but I'd probably call 98o sometimes here as well, potting the flop and folding to turn donks on raggy cards is kind of bad if you do it regularly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2007 08:23
|
|
|
Speaking of dealing with donk bets on the turn at cake, I have a hand that made no sense and was gonna post it. It's NL50 (full ring): Hand #1287011424000878: Pebble Beach 11424 Seat 1: mister h (31.68 in chips) Seat 2: SKWAKI (56.05 in chips) Seat 3: steveSLS (124.76 in chips) Seat 4: casinoman84 (43.89 in chips) Seat 5: blackouts (29.50 in chips) Seat 6: RiveredU! (37.75 in chips) Seat 7: LaoZen (13.65 in chips) Seat 8: UGLY FISH (15.90 in chips) Seat 9: Gnolfo (68.52 in chips) Seat 10: iOpener (72.45 in chips) UGLY FISH: posts small blind $0.25 Gnolfo : posts big blind $0.50 Dealt to Gnolfo [ Q  J ]FOLD iOpener mister h: calls RAISE SKWAKI, to $1 FOLD steveSLS casinoman84: calls FOLD blackouts FOLD RiveredU! FOLD LaoZen FOLD UGLY FISH Gnolfo : calls mister h: calls (pot: $4.25) Flop [ 7 K J ]BET Gnolfo , $2.13 RAISE mister h, to $4.25 FOLD SKWAKI FOLD casinoman84 Gnolfo : calls (pot: $12.75) Turn [ J  ]CHECK Gnolfo mister h: is all in (~$26) Hero (Gnolfo) ... ? EDIT gah cake's logs don't parse well, i went in and edited it a bit for clarity EDIT 2: No reads, they had sat for only a few hands so far. The flop call was not very good I know, for the turn I was intending to c/r but that push threw me badly, I was expecting a spiked K or flush draw or something (cakers LOVE playing flush draws aggressively), that is up until the push. Bhaal fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Oct 15, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2007 10:07
|
|
|
Bet more on the flop so you don't look so weak. Call the push, he probably doesn't have JKo, which is what he is representing, because it looks like he wants you to go away, and he wouldn't want you to go away with a full house.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2007 12:44
|
|
|
Bhaal posted:Speaking of dealing with donk bets on the turn at cake, I have a hand that made no sense and was gonna post it. It's NL50 (full ring): Hello missed flush or weak King! Edit: Call here almost everyday
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2007 13:26
|
|
|
Bhaal posted:Speaking of dealing with donk bets on the turn at cake, I have a hand that made no sense and was gonna post it. It's NL50 (full ring): Easy call.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2007 14:03
|
|
|
Ok, I want to talk about the reasoning behind calling then. The problem I had with calling is I didn't see many hands I'm beating (flush draw, Kx) being played in the spewey way he just did. Jx (including QJ) I could see, but it makes the flop raise a little out of place/spewey. Meanwhile, KJ/77/J7 line up perfectly with his action every street. It's not a ton of hands, but once he pushed that range seemed to really click with his play. With zero implied odds I'll need to be right about half the time (>40%), but that's not counting the ~3-7 out redraw he has when I'm right (flush draw/Kx), and when I'm behind I'm redrawing at most 5 outs (vs 77 or less-likely KK), but also dead or slim (vs KJ/AJ). It seemed close to me, and the push just felt much more like a hail-mary extraction bet than spewey defense. So, where is my reasoning branching off from the reasoning that brings you to a call? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2007 01:18
|
|
|
Bhaal posted:Ok, I want to talk about the reasoning behind calling then. Because why in the world would anyone shove for over 2x the pot when they have a full house? Also if playing a flush draw or Kx is spewy here then playing KJ/77/J7 here is just as spewy because you're not going to get a call often enough to justify shoving for 2x the pot when you can easily get all your money in with 2 streets left. What makes you feel so strongly that he has you beat here? Why did you call if probably the single best card in the entire deck (a non-spade Jack) lands? If you had such a great read where you reduce his possible hands to the only three hands that beat you why did you not fold the turn. You know what else shoves on these boards? Whiffed flushes with the A of that suit, K7, QTss, a weaker Jack than yours, and AJ on top of KJ/77/J7. Yes he will sometimes have a better hand here but most of the time he won't.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2007 03:16
|
|
|
Bhaal posted:Ok, I want to talk about the reasoning behind calling then. The hands you are beating. AK KQ KT AQ JT AA TT XX call call call. My biggest guess here is AA or QQ. This looks like a decent pocket pair that he has decided to go all the way with. call call call call call.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2007 04:36
|
|
|
Seat 1: HERO (21.00 in chips) Seat 2: NWCoHo (6.40 in chips) Seat 3: Uncle Chip (9.80 in chips) Seat 4: Eldred (33.58 in chips) Seat 5: mcsquirelly (20.00 in chips) Seat 6: Jek Vorobei (3.25 in chips) Seat 7: J Drama (10.25 in chips) Seat 8: TheMatador (21.70 in chips) Seat 9: Rizla (21.65 in chips) Seat 10: Srhspaded (28.30 in chips) Eldred: posts small blind $0.10 mcsquirelly: posts big blind $0.20 Dealt to HERO [ Th 9d ] Jek Vorobei: folds J Drama: calls TheMatador: folds Rizla: folds Srhspaded: folds HERO: calls NWCoHo: folds Uncle Chip: calls Eldred: calls mcsquirelly: raises to $0.80 J Drama: folds HERO: calls Uncle Chip: calls Eldred: calls *** FLOP *** [ Td, As, 9h. ] Eldred: checks mcsquirelly: checks HERO: bets $3.40 Uncle Chip: folds Eldred: calls mcsquirelly: folds *** TURN *** [ 2d. ] Eldred: checks HERO: bets $10.20 Eldred: calls *** RIVER *** [ Ad. ] Eldred: checks HERO: checks *** SHOW DOWN *** HERO: shows [ Th, 9d. ] (Two Pairs, Aces and Tens ) Eldred: shows [ 5d, Ah. ] (Three of a Kind, Aces ) Eldred wins $29.10 with Three of a Kind, Aces I figure my worst play was calling the pre-flop raise. I figured he had an ace and there wasn't anything I could do once the second ace hit. Advice? navi fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Oct 18, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2007 00:41
|
|
|
navi posted:HAND edit: Wrote a whole post about why you shouldn't bluff on an ace high board, then I realized you had two pair, hurrrr. Well played. Put a note on this guy saying he calls big bets with weak aces. reethaxor fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Oct 18, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2007 01:06
|
|
|
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Something Awful) saw flop UTG ($4.96) UTG+1 ($4.47) MP1 ($6.64) Hero ($3) Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T  , T  . UTG calls $0.04, UTG+1 calls $0.04, MP1 raises to $0.2, Hero calls $0.20, 5 folds, UTG calls $0.16, UTG+1 calls $0.16. Flop: ($0.86) 2 , 4 , 7 :ham: (4 players)UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $0.4, Hero calls $0.40, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.40. Turn: ($2.06) 3  (3 players)UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $1, Hero calls $1, UTG+1 raises to $4.47 (All-In), MP1 folds, Hero ??? I think I should have maybe reraised pre-flop and flop. This may be unrelated, but I'm also wondering about pot-commitedness?(the definition of the term) OstehQvel fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 18, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2007 01:41
|
|
|
OstehQvel posted:Turn: ($2.06) 3 Is that supposed to say UTG+1 raises to $4.47 instead of calls? OstehQvel posted:This may be unrelated, but I'm also wondering about pot-commitedness?(the definition of the term) Basically, you're pot committed if you have so much of your stack in the pot that you can't fold. If you have a $100 stack and you put $95 of it in on the flop, you're pot committed. You aren't going to fold on the turn for your remaining $5. You're "committed" to putting the rest of the money in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2007 01:47
|
|
|
Psychosis posted:
To expand on this: According to PNLH, you are pot committed once 1/3 of your stack has gone into the pot, with obvious exceptions for when you are drawing (MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ODDS), and when you are bluffing. They also recommend you begin to think about whether you want to get pot committed when 1/10th of your stack goes into the pot (10bb from each player in the pot, a 20bb pot, a turn bet of 20bb results in 30bb of your stack going into the pot, ~ 1/3 of your stack, sets up a 60bb river pot with 70bb's behind, making the river difficult to play if you do not wish to go broke).
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2007 16:40
|
|
|
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1602429 Okay, Villain here is a 41/26/1.86 over a sample of 149 hands. He has vocally been getting frustrated by my 3-betting, which I do a lot. His frustration shortly turned into 4-betting. The first time he 4-bet in position, and this is the second time. I really don't think that he thinks I have a hand given the frequency of my 3-bets. I folded to his 4-bet the first time. So, how awful is my line here? Please notice we are about 190BB deep and he has $21.25 behind after his bet. My FE is almost nonexistent here I think, meaning I am shoving almost completely for value, and therefore making this a pretty sloppy move, right? albedoa fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Oct 19, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2007 23:00
|
|
|
If he's 41/26 and annoyed at your 3-betting / disbelieving you have hands / playing back at you, that widens his range quite a bit. I'd probably 5-bet preflop since you could easily be ahead and even if it's a coinflip your continued aggression will keep getting to him. The best part is if he is pushing a lesser hand too far a reraise might cause him to push it WAY too far, or if he gives it up on a 5-bet that'll still tilt him even more. This backfires obviously is if he does have AA/KK or runs with a lesser pair and wins, but since your reraises are getting to him I'd say it's worth that risk. Anyway, flop push looks right. You certainly don't want another card falling until all the chips are in, which would be another reason towards giving more action preflop. My guess is you just freerolled AK 
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2007 00:38
|
|
|
Bhaal posted:My guess is you just freerolled AK I pushed, he folded and said "sigh". I think I got under his skin enough to make him 4-bet something like 66 or another AK or KQ combo and follow through on any flop. So apparently I did have FE. I was honestly expecting a call from AA-TT. albedoa fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 19, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2007 01:41
|
|
|
albedoa posted:I pushed, he folded and said "sigh". I think I got under his skin enough to make him 4-bet something like 66 or another AK or KQ combo and follow through on any flop. So apparently I did have FE. I was honestly expecting a call from AA-TT. What exactly were your stats at the time? Are you frequently 3-betting everyone or just him? Essentially here you don't really care if he calls or not since you have so much equity in the pot versus what his range is here, especially if he is 4-betting you pretty loosely. If he was 4-betting anything legitimate he has to call you here because the board is really draw-heavy and probably has to pay you off here if you have QT or T7. There is no pocket pair here that should be folding: overpairs, sets (JJ,99,88) and TT has a straight draw. So in general pushing here against a standard 4-better is probably -EV but it seems like against this guy it is +EV to do so. That being said if you're going to be involved in this point at least get the money in when you still have a decent amount of equity and also where he can't fold on the turn if you do hit your heart. Also he has about $36 left after he 4-bets so a 5-bet shove (pretty ridiculous)
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2007 02:05
|
|
|
I was running at 30/24 at that table, and since he was directly on my right and raising from CO a lot, it looked like I was picking on him because I was restealing my button and defending my blinds. Also, other players weren't raising a lot. So basically everything that could have made it look like I was picking on him was happening. You can see from my stack that I was running the table over. To clarify, you're saying that a 5-bet shove is ridiculous, correct? I was comfortable calling his 4-bet and taking a look at the flop. Most A-high and K-high flops and hearts such as this one would have seen my money getting in the middle. blah_blah posted:Basically hand is played perfectly. Thank you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2007 02:52
|
|
|
albedoa posted:So, how awful is my line here? Please notice we are about 190BB deep and he has $21.25 behind after his bet. My FE is almost nonexistent here I think, meaning I am shoving almost completely for value, and therefore making this a pretty sloppy move, right? Your non flush outs aren't always clean but you have >>> 50% equity against his range here; you gotta shove. You can also stack off pf but I think calling like you did is best. Basically hand is played perfectly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2007 02:52
|
|
|
No reads on villain as I just sat down to the table (I'm Jessica): http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcbNx8TFxc3MwcTExcHMxIjFxs3Mx8U%3d Is there any way I don't get all my chips in the middle by the river? And if I do, could I have played it better?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2007 19:10
|
|
|
I obviously have some leaks, and tonight I've just taken beat after beat, losing with QQ thrice, ran TT and JJ into AA, AKs<AKo(he hit a flush with 4 clubs on the board). Now I know losing 3-4 buyins tonight must have had a lot with running bad to do, but I just seem to slowly play off my roll having an occasional upswing(I tend to go down to NL5 after a night of running bad. My stats are much the same, but I seem to run even worse there.) I've been playing NL since oct 2nd, and here are my PT stats:  I know what some of my flaws are, but I'll tell you later if anybody wants to know (my VP$IP is actually around 18 after I started playing big stacks a week ago). If it's interesting my default PT rating is TA. I'd be very grateful to any tips you could give me on how to not give away money any more. (and tell me if I should post a separate thread for this, or if there is a thread for it). OstehQvel fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Oct 22, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 01:35
|
|
|
Despite prior insanity, I have an honest question. Is it reasonable to play in micro SNGs for experience as opposed to sitting in micro ring games, to gauge your skill/learn, without a higher loss potential? IE: I buy-in for 1+.20 10 seater, or a 1+.10 30 seater, just to see and play more hands, without the potential for higher loss than just the initial investment? Ideally I place cash in the 10 seaters probably 70% of the time, but I learn a lot more about my play, and even come out slightly ahead the majority of the time. (Most of my placements are 2nd.) Is this a good start to re-learning?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 11:51
|
|
|
MoGurt posted:Despite prior insanity, I have an honest question. Tournaments are not like cash play, so it isn't good experience for cash play, and will make you much too loose with 1 pair type hands.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 12:46
|
|
|
Ranma4703 posted:Tournaments are not like cash play, so it isn't good experience for cash play, and will make you much too loose with 1 pair type hands. I've never been a loose player, situation forgiven, and haven't become one because of tournament play. Eating up a micro tourney, 1. Nukes most play money kids, and 2. levels off chip stacks. Everyone starts at the same point, and (potentially) only skill determines the victor. I know micro is a bad example, but its better than pure play-money, and experience none-the-less.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 13:04
|
|
|
MoGurt posted:I've never been a loose player, situation forgiven, and haven't become one because of tournament play. Eating up a micro tourney, 1. Nukes most play money kids, and 2. levels off chip stacks. Everyone starts at the same point, and (potentially) only skill determines the victor. It is better than play money, but playing a 10bb stack in a tournament with rising blinds forcing you into push/fold mode is very different from playing a 100bb stack when you have all the time in the world. If the site offers it, I would play .01/.02 cent games.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 15:13
|
|
|
I'd like some opinions on a call I made during my league game this weekend. It's fairly early in the game and I am second to act against one other person in the hand. We have a 400 chip difference and we start with 5000. It is also the 3rd blind level with 10 min blinds which are at 100/200 I have A 9 suited hearts in big blind against the small blind. Flop comes king of hearts, king of diamond, 4 of hearts . He goes all in. I figure he has trips, but I know if he had a full house he would have slow played it (knowing him) wanting me to bet first (which I would have) I call figuring I have a better chance of picking up my flush then he has getting a full house giving me the upper hand, and he does have a king The turn is garbage and the river is a heart and he gets pissed and storms off with some choice words (our league is a pretty friendly group of people so this is unusual). Did I do the right thing? hello internet fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Oct 22, 2007 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 16:02
|
|
|
hello internet posted:I'd like some opinions on a call I made during my league game this weekend.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 16:31
|
|
|
navi posted:I don't understand why you would call with only 3 to the nut flush. oh I'm sorry I had the wrong suit. The spade should have been a heart. Will edit
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 16:49
|
|
|
You've got about a 36% chance of completing your flush. One of these outs will likely improve his hand to a boat, so really you only have 8, making it around 32% (theres roughly 2% chance per out of it hitting for each card on the board). You'll lose this 2/3 of the time, I think, and your pot odds were like 1.1:1.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 17:17
|
|
|
OstehQvel posted:You've got about a 36% chance of completing your flush. One of these outs will likely improve his hand to a boat, so really you only have 8, making it around 32% (theres roughly 2% chance per out of it hitting for each card on the board). what were the odds of him picking up his boat?
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 17:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 00:13 |
|
|
hello internet posted:what were the odds of him picking up his boat? He didn't need the boat to beat you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2007 17:58
|
|