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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfBxsTFxcHFwsTExMDNxIjHzcfFzcI%3d This has been my luck all week.Could I have gotten away from the flopped T-high flush after guy 1 shoved for 5bb more than my RR and guy 2 call-shoved? In my mind I was happy I had a hand after a solid three or four hours winning a grand total of one hand at this table (my stats for showdowns won say I'm 1/3 since I started this evening) so wasn't going to fold no matter what. But should I have? No reads on the villains except that I've seen that philivey guy playing and anyone with a name as retarded as muffdiver cannot be good. Edit: as a separate issue, do you raise with T9s otb in fullring? with two limpers behind you? BigHead fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Dec 19, 2007 |
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Dec 19, 2007 06:26
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OK, here's another one where I'm not sure what the correct line is. .50/$1 NL. My image is good since I've been stomping the table, and have $170. First position with 3  3 . I limp, thinking I can get away with it, and I do. Button calls ($32) and BB checks ($107). Flop is J 3 K rainbow. BB bets $4, I call, button calls.Turn is 8 . BB bets $8, I raise to $18, button folds, BB calls.River is T . BB bets $52. He has around $35 left if I recall. He has not been playing crazy or foolish. It smells to me like he wants a call. What would you do?
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Dec 19, 2007 06:31
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NarkyBark posted:OK, here's another one where I'm not sure what the correct line is. .50/$1 NL. My image is good since I've been stomping the table, and have $170. I'd bet more on the turn. Something like 2/3 or 3/4 pot and hope one of the two has KJ or AK and is willing to shove. As played I either call or shove the river, I definitely do not fold. 52 is pot right? It's not odd to bet the pot on the river with a hand like KJ. He probably wouldn't lead after the flop or turn with AQ but probably would think something like JT or K8 is good. He also wouldn't check PF with AQ. He shouldn't have the flush, as he bet the flop and turn, unless he has Ks2s or something. As played I definitely call and probably shove. I'd put him on either K8 or JsXs Edit: spoiler what he had the anticipation is too much 
BigHead fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Dec 19, 2007 |
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Dec 19, 2007 06:50
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NarkyBark posted:OK, here's another one where I'm not sure what the correct line is. .50/$1 NL. My image is good since I've been stomping the table, and have $170. Limping sucks, why not raise it pf? Lead out on the flop with the set.. I'd raise more on the turn, probably to 25ish. If he got runner runner flush that sucks, but I'm shoving the river.
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Dec 19, 2007 12:55
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfBx8TFxcDBxcTExMTCxYjFx8bGzcY%3d E z fold on the turn with 1010 there?
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Dec 19, 2007 13:34
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Biggy_ posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfBx8TFxcDBxcTExMTCxYjFx8bGzcY%3d Or a raise. Why just call? Why do you want to see more cards?
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Dec 19, 2007 13:38
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Biggy_ posted:Limping sucks, why not raise it pf? I disagree here, raising 33 UTG is usually not such a good idea unless you're playing like 3 or 4 handed (can't tell from the way the hand is described), at 6-max it's a marginal move at best and at full ring it's a flat out unprofitable play. You either want to limp to try to get a multiway pot going and flop a cheap set, or just muck it outright because you're in bad position. You want to treat 33 sort of the same way as hands like weak suited aces and small to mid suited connectors, fold them from really bad positions unless it's the right kind of game, only limp early if preflop raises are rare and people are likely to be stacking off with top pair type hands on the flop. If you unconditionally open any pair from any position preflop (which I'm assuming since popping 33 UTG is pretty much the bottom end of that) you're going to find yourself hemorrhaging money on small pairs.
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Dec 19, 2007 19:52
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It was full ring. On some tables every limp will get punished with a raise, and although I'll fold small pp's utg on those tables, if I do play I'll open with a raise. On the table I was at that wasn't happening, so I figured I could get away with a limp, and I did. I'll still raise with them sometimes, but I sometimes limp.
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Dec 20, 2007 00:17
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I was wondering if I could get some feed back on this hand. I didn't have any reads on the guy, he had just stat down recently. http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfBwMTFxsTHwcTExcLNx4jHxsfCwME%3d Lately it seem like I keep donking off money in these situations. I was just hoping for some advice as what to do in a situation like this one. Malrick fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 21, 2007 |
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Dec 21, 2007 07:30
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Malrick posted:I was wondering if I could get some feed back on this hand. I didn't have any reads on the guy, he had just stat down recently. I tried the link and I also pasted the entire URL into my browser and neither worked, post the HH if you have it saved on your hard drive?
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Dec 21, 2007 07:57
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Fixed.
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Dec 21, 2007 08:42
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Malrick posted:I was wondering if I could get some feed back on this hand. I didn't have any reads on the guy, he had just stat down recently. Preflop is OK. The flop raise was too large, you could have raise to 0.30 or so and accomplished the same. If he has any idea what he's doing at all (70/30 against at those stakes actually) you know he has either a K or a strong flush draw after he calls flop. The flush doesn't get there on the turn so you fire again, OK but you overbet the pot again. On the river you know he's not going away, you're not sure your QQ is good so you check behind, standard. tl; dr he had a K, it happens but stop overbetting VV I... I...  yeah I guess his bets were around pot-size after allAnyway, I would still prefer betting 2/3 pot on flop and turn. What does the ridiculous short stack of the villain mean though? Are we trying to get all his cash in even if we don't think/know we're ahead? schlaufux fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Dec 21, 2007 |
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Dec 21, 2007 10:34
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schlaufux posted:On the river you know he's not going away, you're not sure your QQ is good so you check behind, standard you aren't very good at math; every bet he makes in that hand is (exactly) potsized. also villain has like 2BB left on the river; not much difference between betting and checking.
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Dec 21, 2007 11:02
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schlaufux posted:Preflop is OK. The flop raise was too large, you could have raise to 0.30 or so and accomplished the same. Since he only has 2bb left, and since he's probably a calling station, he could have a T or even A high and will call the river.
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Dec 21, 2007 15:18
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?1839729 Opponent is at a couple of my tables and has been very aggro. His PT stats are like 25/20 over 150ish hands at this point. We've played two big pots earlier, one where he raised the button and I 3bet from the SB with AA. He shoves over my cbet on an 894 rainbow flop with J7 and doesn't get there. The other big hand we played was on a different table where he raises utg+1 and MP calls and i call in the SB with 77. Flop is KK7 and i CR his cbet and MP call, then he shoves with KQ and rivers quads. For this hand my preflop 3bet is because I have not seen him make any 4bets and given his tendency to play very aggro in 3bet pots I would love to cbet and have him mess around if i flop a set, plus I'm in position and can keep pot size smallish if i don't flop big. Flop is decent but very easy for him to bluff on so I cant bet or I'll be forced out too often. The turn is a great card for me since it makes it less likely he has a Q, my turn call is pretty simple. River I think he bets here with a busted FD, air and trips/FH only. I just don't see him vbetting something like TT here, and I think his ratio of bluffs to monsters is pretty high so I look him up.
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Dec 22, 2007 05:12
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Xyven posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?1839729 I like it to the river. Are you sure he's offering the right price to bluff-catch him? Would you make this call with ace high, or just pocket pairs?
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Dec 22, 2007 07:16
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5463 posted:Are you sure he's offering the right price to bluff-catch him? the problem is that xyven's hand is pretty much faceup as never being better than JJ, so if whether you call depends on whether villain pots it or 2/3rd pots it on the river, then you are going to get owned a lot. 3betting and then checking the flop against a super aggro villain means that you are going to have to grit your teeth and call down a lot on ugly boards, but this board isn't that ugly and our hand is pretty much right in the middle of our range, so I call because I am a station.
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Dec 22, 2007 08:19
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I'm getting over 2:1 so if I win 1/3 of the time it's a good call Also nachos pointed out last night that calling down is good for my image if he's a reg (which he is), because it will make him more hesitant to bluff me, making future hands against him easier to play.
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Dec 22, 2007 17:01
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when you check behind flop and call turn your line looks extremely showdown based; so as blah said your hand is completely faceup. i think this and bet sizing are pretty important here. his river bet just looks like a value pozzing to me. of course since your hand is face up he could be trying to blow you off it but this isn't happening enough to warrant a call here imo. he's a good regular and is perfectly capable of realizing that you will call this because of all the reasons you stated (you checked flop, all the draws missed, etc). i also think you are wrong about him not vbetting TT, JJ here. why on earth not? you never, ever, ever have stronger than TT here unless you are playing this hand extremely tricky (dumb). nachos makes a good point but he'll also see what you had, making you much easier to play against for him. you should try not to take such transparent lines in the future 
EC10 fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 22, 2007 |
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Dec 22, 2007 19:31
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I'm not really sure how else to play this hand after I decide to 3bet preflop, which I think was a pretty meh decision in the first place looking back. On a flop like this he messes around way too often and with 200bb stacks I can't safely get it in so it's much harder to pick off a flop crai. What line would you suggest? edit: and yeah I know my hand is pretty face up and I usually play hands in a way that makes it hard for my opponent to read what I have, but I don't think I can play this in a less straightforward way.
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Dec 22, 2007 20:34
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This is probably way too nitty, and I usually snap call in this situation with the board pairing, but 99-JJ seems to be his most likely holding, because I have to give him some kind of credit for a big hand because he raised UTG+1, and then called your raise. And because he got caught getting out of line with you previously. Also, the SPR in this hand (lol) is 7, leading me to believe that it is unlikely he holds a speculative hand. This is from a NL100 player though, and I understand the 3/6 stars game is tough as hell and over my head. edit- I am in no way positive. I have went back and forth on this hand because it is a very intersting hand. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Dec 22, 2007 |
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Dec 22, 2007 21:04
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I agree that good regs will definitely vbet TT and JJ here, but for this singular hand I think its less likely because Xyven (according to what he said) hadn't gone to showdown with having a monster and been pretty tight in general. Villian has to think that Xyven is going to be calling with exactly what he has in order to vbet other hands besides a queen. On the other hand, villian probably reads his hand face up and thinks 'He is a nit, I can blow him off with a large bet'. You have to take the second line of thinking into account since he is a good regular and is capable of reading hands. I think it justifies the call given that you have to be good 1 in 3 times. It's sort of a shot in the dark but I think in this spot its a good call. As for image purposes, whether we win or lose the pot we establish that villian has to start valuebetting much lighter on the river in order to get max value playing us. In a vaccuum yes it makes it easier for him to play, but since we are good players who take this stuff into consideration, we are also going to adjust based on this knowledge and it will actually make it harder. At this point in time we are one level ahead of him in thinking.
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Dec 22, 2007 21:50
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Effective stacks sizes are 200BB. I stacked villain a long time ago with QQ > AKss AIPF, and he stacked me when AA<88 in a 3bet pot where I checked the KTT flop. I've been getting ridiculously good cards and 3betting a lot, and he's been 3betting a bit as well. He prob has me as like 25/22 or something, and I'm cbetting a lot. He seems solid. Folded to me in button, I make it $4 with QJss. SB folds and he 3bets to 16 or something. I think it's a good time for a 4bet but I suck at math and the Stars software confuses me so I make it $34 to go, which is ridiculously small (I wanted to make it $42 or something, ughhhhh). He calls. Flop is K86 rainbow, not even one spade I'm not sure if my line looks really retarded or really strong or both. He checks to me. Should I: check fire one barrel fire two barrels I think there is some merit to all of these. e: lol i'm stupid blah_blah fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Dec 23, 2007 |
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Dec 22, 2007 21:59
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blah_blah posted:QJss did he open limp? looks like it. if so, just check PF. once he limp RR's, just fold QJs. 4betting this is just fps spew at 1/2 99.9% of the time. especially since you are oop vs him. as played, cbet the flop and shut down. but pf is really bad here.
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Dec 23, 2007 00:19
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ughhh i'm so retarded. i am button, he is BB e: also it's NL100 e2: why would i even include c/r and c/f as options really blah_blah fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Dec 23, 2007 |
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Dec 23, 2007 00:38
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Xyven posted:Also nachos pointed out last night that calling down is good for my image if he's a reg (which he is), because it will make him more hesitant to bluff me, making future hands against him easier to play. It's okay to call the turn being ahead of his range intending to fold the river being behind his range, even when the board hasn't made his hand stronger. There's the theory behind it, after that it's 100% player-based.
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Dec 23, 2007 06:20
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EC10 posted:when you check behind flop and call turn your line looks extremely showdown based; so as blah said your hand is completely faceup. i think this and bet sizing are pretty important here. his river bet just looks like a value pozzing to me. of course since your hand is face up he could be trying to blow you off it but this isn't happening enough to warrant a call here imo. he's a good regular and is perfectly capable of realizing that you will call this because of all the reasons you stated (you checked flop, all the draws missed, etc). i also think you are wrong about him not vbetting TT, JJ here. why on earth not? you never, ever, ever have stronger than TT here unless you are playing this hand extremely tricky (dumb). Is his hand really so face up though? 100BB, maybe, 200BB deep though, its not an uncommon line with something like KK. As played, I'd call, over agro is enough of a read for him to be pretty wide here.
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Dec 23, 2007 11:39
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5463 posted:It's okay to call the turn being ahead of his range intending to fold the river being behind his range, even when the board hasn't made his hand stronger. There's the theory behind it, after that it's 100% player-based. Do you actually think about what you say, or do you just type whatever the gently caress pops into your head and mash the post button? Of course it's ok to call one street planning to fold to another bet but if that's all you can contribute to the discussion you should just get the gently caress out and get back to working on your book of lovely poker theories.
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Dec 24, 2007 01:36
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Delysid posted:I disagree here, raising 33 UTG is usually not such a good idea unless you're playing like 3 or 4 handed (can't tell from the way the hand is described), at 6-max it's a marginal move at best and at full ring it's a flat out unprofitable play. You either want to limp to try to get a multiway pot going and flop a cheap set, or just muck it outright because you're in bad position. just because nobody commented on this, i have to strongly disagree. if you're going to limp them then just fold, but you shouldn't be afraid to raise small pockets from utg. you're going to be hemorrhaging money when you limp them because your hand is face up unless you also limp strong hands utg sometimes, and then you're just throwing away money. i know you're not advocating limping all speculative hands, but there's really nothing wrong with raising any pocket pair from any position if you can handle the postflop play
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Dec 24, 2007 02:51
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfBzMTFxcDAwMTExMLHw4jHw8fBwsw%3d had KK think i played it correctly? dont think i could have changed the outcome... too drawy.
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Dec 25, 2007 05:04
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JellyS posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfBzMTFxcDAwMTExMLHw4jHw8fBwsw%3d I don't think you can call the turn intending to check/fold the river unless you had the K of clubs. I think the turn is time to raise or fold, but not call. However, the river fold is good. In a 10max 1/2 game you should never be good there.
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Dec 25, 2007 05:22
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JellyS posted:had KK The turn call is meh. Even if you've got the king of clubs, if you put him on a flush, you're calling a half-pot bet for a less than 1 in 6 chance to make the 2nd nut flush. So if you think he has a flush on the turn, you should probably fold. You're not going to hit your flush and get enough out of him on the river and have the winning hand nearly enough to make this call/fold line profitable. If I were in this spot, I'd consider raising the turn to about $60, folding to a 3-bet, and trying to showdown for free. There are so many hands that he could be betting on the turn that aren't the flush, but you let him represent the flush on the river automatically when you simply call the turn. After this raise, a 3-bet on the turn or a lead bet on the river are surefire signs of hands that have you beat. Also, nobody's going to bet out their made straight on the river (or even pay to see the river with a straight draw) when you raised a flush board on the turn, but when you simply call the turn and the straight scare card hits the river, you're suddenly doubly scared of calling the river. Your description of the board goes from "possible flush" to "too drawy."
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Dec 25, 2007 21:47
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JellyS posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfBzMTFxcDAwMTExMLHw4jHw8fBwsw%3d Honestly you can't really say anything about this hand without any kind of assessment or read on the player. In a vacuum I might do the same thing as you or I may raise/fold turn since he is not going to rejam AJ (maybe with Ac) but will probably rejam a flush so you can fold turn. This lets you set how much you are willing to see the rest of the hand rather than calling and letting him bet whatever he wants on the river. E.g. I would probably prefer to raise the turn small and fold losing a small amount rather than call half pot turn then call 3/4 pot river. I don't know if this line would be smart if he has any ability to bluff without a flush. Also I think you can fold this most of the time unless he will overvalue any big Jack, which I think players on Cake will do. Edit: It doesn't really matter what you raise it to here on the turn since very few players will play back at you without the flush in this situation. I like raising smaller here if he is going to just call with most of his range (obv he will reraise/call to trap with the nut flush). But if I had shown down a flush beforehand that played like this I would just do what I did in that situation. Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Dec 26, 2007 |
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Dec 26, 2007 03:30
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?1854249 Villain has been extremely tight, his only action a few hands prior to this where he stacked someone set over set. My thoughts behind this hand are that he's very unlikely to be raising packing a 7. The only hands that have me beat straight down are Aces and AK, and that I may be able to put him off his Ax.
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Dec 26, 2007 06:23
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bigfatspacko_uk posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?1854249 The turn bet is suspicious in that it can either be a value bet with AK or a weak blocking bet with a non-ace. I don't think he's betting $2 into a $2.30 pot with AA for the flopped full house, I wouldn't be surprised if he was blocking with QQ/JJ or going for value with AK/KK.
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Dec 26, 2007 07:04
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Knightmare posted:The turn bet is suspicious in that it can either be a value bet with AK or a weak blocking bet with a non-ace. I don't think he's betting $2 into a $2.30 pot with AA for the flopped full house, I wouldn't be surprised if he was blocking with QQ/JJ or going for value with AK/KK. It could also just be a standard c-bet.
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Dec 26, 2007 07:38
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bigfatspacko_uk posted:It could also just be a standard c-bet. It is probably more likely this will end up being a split pot unless he has AK here. This spot really sucks for you though because if he doesn't have an A (although a 7 seems doubtful in a tight range except for A7) he will give up on the river and that is all you will get but if he does have AK or a hand that you bet and you call the turn you will probably get valuetowned on the river. Also can he not have KK here? Will he really try to trap and check here on the turn when you most likely have an A and are calling his turn lead? I am probably taking out any pocket pairs other than KK in his range so that leaves Ax/KK in his range with AA here almost never. His turn bet seems pretty weak but this is probably not the spot where you want to raise and get jammed on so just call and reevaluate river.
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Dec 26, 2007 12:20
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http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfCxMTFxc3Bx8TExMbDzYjAwszCwM0%3d I feel good calling the all-in, but should I have tried to stack the 88 guy as well? I think the fact that I had already called one all-in made me kind of conservative. That and the Q on the board.
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Dec 26, 2007 18:55
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Daremyth posted:http://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcfCxMTFxc3Bx8TExMbDzYjAwszCwM0%3d
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Dec 26, 2007 19:06
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bigfatspacko_uk posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?1854249 I would probably reraise him $3-4 on the flop. You are ahead of a lot of his pfr range there and if you don't repop it you are going to have no idea where you are on the turn. A hand like KK-1010 might bet the pot like that. And if he has a hand like A10 or AJ then he might actually fold it to a reraise. AQ or AK he'll probably call although he might shove. Fold to a shove obviously. By just calling there you put yourself in a really bad situation because you are inviting another bet on the turn. When you call that flop bet is your plan to just call down til showdown? If he calls your reraise and donkbets the turn I probably lay it down. He'll most likely check the turn though because he's tight. At that point you can either check behind and try to see a showdown (for most likely a split pot) or fire again to try to fold out AQ-A10.
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Dec 26, 2007 21:54
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