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FrontLine posted:I've had a fair few frustrating bad beats* and it's made me wary of betting to much. You're probably having a lot of "bad beats" because you're always betting the absolute minimum (or simply betting way too little) and giving people huge odds to call with worse hands and suck out on you. Betting less to risk less when you think you have the best hand (you don't need to be 100% certain and it's rare that you will be) is the exact opposite of how you should be playing. If you bet too small when you should be protecting your hand you're basically inviting people to draw against your made hands. Not that that's even relevant to the hand you've posted, I'm just guessing it's a flaw you have with your game based on the statement you just made.
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Jul 21, 2008 15:45
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Also, you admitted to having trouble raising unless you are "100% certain" you have the best hand, but still you were quick to identify Xyven's reply as nothing more than a troll instead of reflecting on what the lols of a much more experienced player might mean about your bet sizing. We can't assume that you don't understand simple concepts such as "minraising is bad", so just ask for clarification. Notice how you received some when it became obvious that you really didn't know. Don't leave it up to everyone to guess if you are seriously in the dark or not.
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Jul 21, 2008 16:20
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FrontLine posted:That's exactly the sort of advice I was looking for! I've mentioned it before in another thread but I'm having trouble betting or raising unless I'm 100% certain I have the best hand. I've had a fair few frustrating bad beats* and it's made me wary of betting to much. I'm a duffer and I'm still learning (microlimits for me! lol), but if there is anything that PL and NL Hold'em has taught me, aggression pays. Controlled agression, but still agression. If you are passive, with small minbets, or calling alot, you will lose so much money. I only EVER minbet when I've got the nuts and I know the guy behind me is a very loose aggresive player who is almost certain to raise me if he thinks my bet is too small. You can't play, even in a cash game, and look at your chips as cash. They've got to be chips, you are playing a game, and you are playing it to win. If you get too attached to the money you are playing with, well, it's just going to leave you in the long run.
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Jul 21, 2008 19:45
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https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcHCzcTFxcDBw8TExMXGwIjFx8bGzcY%3d Sorry about the cake hh.. I called the flop bet with the intention of leading out most turns, and it was a pretty good card to do it. Should I be bluffing the riv there? I don't have a specific read but he is a reg who isn't that good and I expect him to fold to the turn bet a good amount. I had 33 as well although it doesn't really matter
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Jul 22, 2008 02:20
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Biggy_ posted:https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcHCzcTFxcDBw8TExMXGwIjFx8bGzcY%3d I just c/f the flop. Any 6 does you in, they could already have you beat, etc. Plus people give no credit on paired boards. Also, the A kinda sucks to bet, since if you were ahead on the flop, the A hits him a lot. He should fold hands like 88 on the turn; however, since he's a bad reg, I think its spew to assume that he'll fold much on a paired board; I don't know if he even folds a straight draw, even with the flushdraw hitting.
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Jul 22, 2008 02:30
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Ranma4703 posted:I just c/f the flop. Any 6 does you in, they could already have you beat, etc. Plus people give no credit on paired boards. Also, the A kinda sucks to bet, since if you were ahead on the flop, the A hits him a lot. He should fold hands like 88 on the turn; however, since he's a bad reg, I think its spew to assume that he'll fold much on a paired board; I don't know if he even folds a straight draw, even with the flushdraw hitting. I think this is correct for the most part. If you do want to bluff, I'd rather just checkraise the flop than call with the intention of bluffing the turn. Those planned multistreet plays where you "call to do x" almost never work as well as you think they should, especially at these stakes. With a c/r he should immediately fold the vast majority of his range, and if he does call with a hand like 88 there are lots of scare cards you can 2 and 3 barrel. Check/folding is fine, but if you want to take the higher variance but probably higher value line you can check raise. You just have to be prepared to follow through when the board gets scary for his calling range. If you dont feel like doing it, just c/f. I think folding preflop is pretty standard nowadays too with 33 because you probably dont have the implied odds to hit a set vs most regs.
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Jul 22, 2008 03:14
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That guy plays a lot of tables, probably 10+. I think the river could go either way, I think this guy is going to play pretty straightforwardly so check/folding is fine and when your flush is good you will see showdown a good amount of the time. I don't really like preflop though. You don't have a lot of implied odds because his range is pretty wide and you are also inviting the BB to come along and when he does you will have bad relative position. I would 3bet or fold, usually folding. e: just typed this up at the same time as nachos, I agree with the c/r flop part I forgot to put it in my post though.
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Jul 22, 2008 03:24
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This is your thinking of the handBiggy_ posted:https://cakepoker.com/HandHistory/?Hand=xcHCzcTFxcDBw8TExMXGwIjFx8bGzcY%3d This is villain's quote:I GOTS A PURR
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Jul 22, 2008 09:17
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Eltel is the kind of cake reg who you won't bluff off of a hand. Just wait for a hand and value bet him all day.
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Jul 22, 2008 15:00
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Since I'm downswonging, I'm questioning everything I do. So, I'm going to post some hands. I'm still doing my session review, but here are the interesting hands I have found so far: Hand #1568011421002128: Chelsea (6-Max) 11421 Seat 1: Jenn*** (110.90 in chips) Seat 2: lol9*** (150.00 in chips) Seat 3: John*** (99.00 in chips) Seat 8: 1162*** (126.35 in chips) Seat 9: JMcCain#1 (98.50 in chips) Seat 10: 36Do*** (324.15 in chips) 36Do***: posts small blind $0.50 Jenn***: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ A  T ]lol9***: folds John***: raises to $3.50 1162***: calls JMcCain#1: calls 36Do***: folds Jenn***: folds @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ Q  Q 7 ]John***: bets $6 1162***: folds JMcCain#1: raises to $18.50 Seems like a good spot to bluff raise; he can't be happy with a 7, and rarely has one, and since two Q's are missing I don't believe he has one more than 50% of the time. The downside is that there is a draw out, so I'll get much less credit.Hand #1568011421002138: Chelsea (6-Max) 11421 Seat 1: Jenn*** (125.40 in chips) Seat 2: Dale*** (100.00 in chips) Seat 3: John*** (144.75 in chips) Seat 8: 1162*** (110.25 in chips) Seat 9: JMcCain#1 (100.50 in chips) Seat 10: 36Do*** (295.65 in chips) JMcCain#1: posts small blind $0.50 Jenn***: posts big blind $1 Dale***: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ K  Q ]Dale***: raises to $3.50 John***: calls 1162***: calls JMcCain#1: calls Jenn***: calls @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 7 7 Q ]JMcCain#1: bets $12.25 Jenn***: folds Dale***: folds John***: calls 1162***: folds # # # TURN # # # [ 6 ]JMcCain#1: checks John***: checks &&& RIVER &&& [ 6 ]JMcCain#1: checks John***: is all in 129.0000 JMcCain#1: is all in 84.7500 Should I 3bet this preflop? That clears out the riffraff, but it makes a ~40$ pot with 60 behind, so any TP means I go broke. My turn plan was this: any Q or 7 bets the turn, lots of flushdraws bet the turn (because people are retarded), so to max value c/r all in on the turn. If they check behind, their most likely hand is a flush draw, so check to them on the river and snap off a bluff. When he pushes the river, I call because I think he bets trips on the turn to protect, so a flushdraw should make up a lot of his range. Good/bad/ugly? Hand #1568011421002142: Chelsea (6-Max) 11421 Seat 1: Jenn*** (122.90 in chips) Seat 2: Dale*** (92.50 in chips) Seat 3: John*** (252.25 in chips) Seat 8: 1162*** (105.75 in chips) Seat 9: JMcCain#1 (106.15 in chips) Seat 10: etho*** (48.01 in chips) 1162***: posts small blind $0.50 JMcCain#1: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ K K ]etho***: calls Jenn***: folds Dale***: calls John***: calls 1162***: calls JMcCain#1: raises to $7.50 etho***: folds Dale***: folds John***: calls 1162***: folds @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 9 7 2 ]JMcCain#1: bets $13.50 John***: calls # # # TURN # # # [ 4 ]JMcCain#1: checks John***: checks &&& RIVER &&& [ T ]JMcCain#1: bets $29 Preflop is 3.5 + 1 per limper, there are WAY too many people in the pot and if one of them calls I'm afraid it will make the rest of them call too. Obviously I don't like the turn that much, but I have the redraw so it seems like an okay place to check/call a bet. When he checks behind I think I have the best hand a lot, so I go for some value. Standard? The only part that I think may be non standard is the turn. Hand #1567011611000101: Chelsea (6-Max) 11611 Seat 1: pima*** (102.00 in chips) Seat 2: JMcCain#1 (262.75 in chips) Seat 3: Ener*** (134.65 in chips) Seat 8: mvp2*** (110.80 in chips) Seat 9: Asgr*** (100.00 in chips) Seat 10: Shir*** (100.00 in chips) mvp2***: posts small blind $0.50 Asgr***: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ T T ]Shir***: folds pima***: folds JMcCain#1: raises to $3 Ener***: raises to $9.50 mvp2***: folds Asgr***: folds JMcCain#1: calls @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 2 T Q ]JMcCain#1: checks Ener***: checks # # # TURN # # # [ 9 ]JMcCain#1: bets $14 Ener***: calls &&& RIVER &&& [ 4 ]JMcCain#1: bets $41 Is this a lovely flop to c/r? AK will probably want to check behind, JJ/99 won't bet, AQ probably will. This is a flop I'm c/r'ing with a draw a lot of the time I think. River lead is a bit much I think; he doesn't have a Q most of the time, and I could easily have the flush. I think something like 26 is better. Opponent is dolce. Hand #1567011611000103: Chelsea (6-Max) 11611 Seat 1: pima*** (101.00 in chips) Seat 2: JMcCain#1 (280.85 in chips) Seat 3: cron*** (60.00 in chips) Seat 8: mvp2*** (95.30 in chips) Seat 9: Asgr*** (118.70 in chips) Seat 10: Shir*** (99.00 in chips) Shir***: posts small blind $0.50 JMcCain#1: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ J A ]mvp2***: calls Asgr***: folds Shir***: calls JMcCain#1: raises to $5 mvp2***: calls Shir***: calls @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 3 J 9 ]Shir***: checks JMcCain#1: checks mvp2***: bets $5 Shir***: calls JMcCain#1: raises to $22 mvp2***: calls Shir***: calls # # # TURN # # # [ Q ]Shir***: checks JMcCain#1: checks mvp2***: checks &&& RIVER &&& [ 6 ]Shir***: checks JMcCain#1: checks mvp2***: checks The flop check was actually an accident; I was looking at a different table and thought I had whiffed the flop. Should the raise be larger with both in? They have really good odds to call. I was worried about getting pot committed, but I think my hand is pretty much the nuts here a lot of the time. Raise it to 35ish? thats 30$ to call with ~65 in the pot, so its slightly less than pot sized. Value bet river? QJ is beating me, KJ and JT probably call, 8T made a straight but would prob. put in a bet somewhere, right? Hand #1567011585000884: Chelsea (6-Max) 11585 Seat 1: JMcCain#1 (139.04 in chips) Seat 2: Ener*** (111.46 in chips) Seat 3: Vrik*** (30.25 in chips) Seat 8: 1162*** (118.40 in chips) Seat 9: MR.R*** (70.25 in chips) Seat 10: GORA*** (198.40 in chips) JMcCain#1: posts small blind $0.50 Ener***: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ J J ]Vrik***: folds 1162***: raises to $3.50 MR.R***: folds GORA***: folds JMcCain#1: raises to $12.50 Ener***: folds 1162***: calls @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 2 2 9 ]JMcCain#1: bets $17 1162***: calls # # # TURN # # # [ 9 ]JMcCain#1: checks 1162***: bets $20 JMcCain#1: is all in 109.5400 This is probably awful. Thinking was that I look kinda like AK/AQ, and he may call me with A high. Or, I was tilting.
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Jul 22, 2008 18:31
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too....many....hands....
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Jul 22, 2008 19:47
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JellyS posted:too....many....hands.... Sorry, just pick your favorite one! I'm partial to #4; it's against dolce!
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Jul 22, 2008 19:51
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You have a set against dolce.. enough said. The KQo hand against John** I fold that preflop, after so many people call before you, it makes it tough to play oop against the whole table, I don't like 3betting here with it either. As played I think the river call is ok as I'm having trouble putting him on a hand that beats us, unless he had a flush draw with a random 6..
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Jul 23, 2008 00:11
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I think the KQo preflop call is ultra standard. You are getting an awesome price, people are likely to have hands that you dominate, and you have good relative position to the preflop raiser. Folding there is criminal. I also think that if UTG is opening wide at all it is an OK spot to squeeze as long as you have a good image. As for the post flop action I like the flop, but I think you can lead again on the turn, probably fairly small like a little over half pot. I don't like a crai all that much because I don't think he should be betting a FD, and I don't think he will bet a lot of Qs either besides AQ. I don't know if you have reads on him but we do know that he overcalled PF and flatted the flop - he isn't going to be the type to valuebet thin. Once you get to the river I would probably lead small, unless you think he will bluff a good amount of the time. I think it can be a leak to try and induce bluffs too much of the time at these low limits (players are passive more often than not), some of the time it is just best to bet out and get value from pocket tens. Once you get to the river though and he shoves on you I think it's a good call. He is never checking back a 7 on the turn so he has to have a 6 somehow which is not easy to do, and even then I don't think he would shove all the time.
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Jul 23, 2008 01:41
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Biggy_ posted:You have a set against dolce.. enough said. I'm more thinking about the flop and the betsizing on the river for the hand against dolce. The KQ hand, I'm glad to hear that it is okay to call there; I did, and the little bastard had 6s8s. I was planning on c/c to induce, and I really wanted to fold when he pushed, but as you said I couldn't put him on a 7, and I didn't think he could have a 6.
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Jul 23, 2008 02:18
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how much did you downswing? you seem to be on permatilt. In almost all of those hands I see fancy plays where you do some non-standard lines while over-thinking/giving too much credit to villain's thought process. edit: not exactly the best way to crush NL100.
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Jul 23, 2008 19:43
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HKS posted:how much did you downswing? you seem to be on permatilt. In almost all of those hands I see fancy plays where you do some non-standard lines while over-thinking/giving too much credit to villain's thought process. Not too much, around 600$ in 2 days. You are correct about overthinking/FPS; I think it stems from believing that I am a better play than most of my opponents, and therefor I 'deserve' to win their money, and when it doesn't happen I try to make it happen. It is something I am trying to recognize and stop when it happens.
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Jul 23, 2008 20:36
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Ranma4703 posted:Hand #1568011421002128: Chelsea (6-Max) 11421 Ranma4703 posted:Hand #1568011421002138: Chelsea (6-Max) 11421 Ranma4703 posted:Hand #1568011421002142: Chelsea (6-Max) 11421 Ranma4703 posted:Hand #1567011611000101: Chelsea (6-Max) 11611 Ranma4703 posted:Hand #1567011611000103: Chelsea (6-Max) 11611 Ranma4703 posted:Hand #1567011585000884: Chelsea (6-Max) 11585
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Jul 23, 2008 20:43
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Ranma I am going to try to make a vid this weekend like we had planned. Had to drop down in stakes though cause my car poo poo the bed and I didn't want my savings to feel the hit. Still, there's not much of a skill difference between $50 and $100NL.
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Jul 23, 2008 21:00
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Actually that KK hand I would just bet all 3 streets I think a lot worse will call you down.
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Jul 23, 2008 21:00
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Boy you sure love to check raise!
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Jul 23, 2008 21:01
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Strong Sauce posted:Boy you sure love to check raise! Most of my c/r's are versus the pfr; the one hand I check/raised after I raised preflop, it was because I accidentally checked the flop, thinking I had missed. albedoa posted:Ranma I am going to try to make a vid this weekend like we had planned. Had to drop down in stakes though cause my car poo poo the bed and I didn't want my savings to feel the hit. Still, there's not much of a skill difference between $50 and $100NL. Cool; I'm not going to have much time this week to play / watch poker, but hopefully I'll have some free time.
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Jul 23, 2008 21:08
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5/10 game on cake so I have to right this out by hand.  stack sizes: CO $580 BTN $955 SB $4000 Me in the BB $2000 the CO open limps and the BTN makes it $30, SB calls and I call with AJo and CO calls as well. Flop ($120) A 94Checks to the BTN who bets $85, SB folds, I call and CO overcalls. Turn($375) 9 Checks to the BTN who makes it $300 and I fold. the SB is a passive fish, and the CO is a terrible guy who minbuys and has no idea how to play poker at all. BTN is a pretty standard TAG.
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Jul 24, 2008 00:01
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Question..with those reads shouldn't the TAG's isoing range be huge here so why not 3b PF and get HU w the terrible player or passive player you have position on? Is calling better because it keeps the weaker players in and you expect the TAG to play very straight forwardly post flop? If I'm the BTN here your hand looks pretty weak and if he has the same reads on CO as you do then he could be betting loads of hands you beat no?
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Jul 24, 2008 01:17
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I think all too often when I 3bet preflop the fish calls and possibly the TAG too and then the SB is getting like 100 to one and he's pretty stationy against me because he caught me bluffing once. I'd rather not get into like a 60bb pot on the flop 4 ways with AJo
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Jul 24, 2008 01:58
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Has he been making it 30 preflop no matter what? There is a weak limper and cake has a pot button, but its still only 30, seems a bit weird. In my games I'd probably call once more and hope for a showdown
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Jul 24, 2008 02:39
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I think thats a good fold considering the CO still left to act and this guy fires twice into multiple opponents. The 9 is definitely not a good card and you can probably fold on most turn cards anyways because that line is just so drat strong.
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Jul 24, 2008 03:50
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Xyven posted:5/10 game on cake so I have to right this out by hand. I think I like squeezing pre a little more, but I don't play cake and have no idea how often they cc etc. Rest of it is the only way to play it given the multiway dynamic and only having tp.
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Jul 24, 2008 04:06
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Short stack is just a random donk, not really spewy or anything but a little loose PF. Don't know anything about his minraise PF. Other guy is cake.eater, he is a reg and is fairly tight preflop, and is pretty straightforward after the flop. Seat 1: 4ace*** ($17.55 in chips) Seat 2: skee*** ($84.95 in chips) Seat 3: Back*** ($84.10 in chips) Seat 8: AA88x ($54.45 in chips) Seat 9: must*** ($49.50 in chips) Seat 10: cake*** ($50.00 in chips) must***: posts small blind $0.25 cake***: posts big blind $0.50 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to AA88x [Kh Js] 4ace***: raises $0.50 to $1.00 skee***: folds Back***: folds AA88x: calls $1.00 must***: folds cake***: calls $0.50 *** FLOP *** [As Ks Qs] Pot: $3 cake***: checks 4ace***: bets $1.60 AA88x: calls $1.60 cake***: raises $3.20 to $4.80 4ace***: folds AA88x: calls $3.20 *** TURN *** [As Ks Qs][Qd] Pot: $12.50 cake***: checks AA88x: checks *** RIVER *** [As Ks Qs Qd] [2h] Pot: $12.50 cake***: bets $6.00 AA88x: folds I think I may have played this hand a little too straightforwardly. I think every street is debatable, do you guys raise flop initially? I know I have the sexiest draw you could ask for here and I have awesome equity against any range, but I opted to call because I didn't expect much FE based on villains short stack. Once I cold call I think calling is by far the best move. Anyone like firing turn and river again if he checks to us on a blank?
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Jul 24, 2008 05:19
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Your draw is sweet, but you have 0 implied odds no matter what you hit. I'm fine with raising the flop and getting it in, and you will sometimes have the best hand when that happens.
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Jul 24, 2008 13:20
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Ranma4703 posted:Your draw is sweet, but you have 0 implied odds no matter what you hit. I'm fine with raising the flop and getting it in, and you will sometimes have the best hand when that happens. Raising this flop multiway is a disaster. TBQH, this is a close decision, so I would decide based on whether or not the opponent would fire the turn 100% if I just call. He didn't, so I prefer a call. e: but I probably screwball shove after he makes it 4.80 and hope that the overlay makes my move correct. i am probably wrong, but i never play big draws passively. 5463 fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 24, 2008 |
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Jul 24, 2008 14:58
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3 hands from my session review - I'm not done yet, so there may be more coming! Hand #1570011649001158: Chelsea (6-Max) 11649 Seat 1: Dkid*** (33.50 in chips) Seat 2: IhvD*** (70.00 in chips) Seat 3: SPLA*** (153.80 in chips) Seat 8: beet*** (105.40 in chips) Seat 9: JMcCain#1 (186.50 in chips) JMcCain#1: posts small blind $0.50 Dkid***: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ K K ]IhvD***: folds SPLA***: folds beet***: calls JMcCain#1: raises to $4.50 Dkid***: folds beet***: calls @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 2 4 6 ]JMcCain#1: bets $6 beet***: calls # # # TURN # # # [ Q ]JMcCain#1: checks beet***: checks &&& RIVER &&& [ 4 ]JMcCain#1: bets $14 Villain was loose/bad, limped a lot preflop and liked to call. He 1/2 pot bluffed at weakness once. Thats all I have for reads. Is a turn bet good? My think was his range is largely TP of 6's, pp's, sets, flushdraws, straight draws, and a lot of that folds once the Q hits, so I should delay my value till the river. The problem is that I don't protect against a 4th d, but I think that is worth it. Hand #1570011585000608: Chelsea (6-Max) 11585 Seat 1: vet0*** (198.25 in chips) Seat 2: shak*** (89.30 in chips) Seat 3: BIGH*** (136.60 in chips) Seat 8: CAPK*** (112.00 in chips) Seat 9: 1162*** (95.10 in chips) Seat 10: JMcCain#1 (100.00 in chips) 1162***: posts small blind $0.50 JMcCain#1: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ 9 9 ]vet0***: calls BIGH***: raises to $2 CAPK***: raises to $7.50 1162***: folds JMcCain#1: raises to $22 First hand at the table. CAPK is a multitabler who seems to play tight/smart, but I've seen him do some retarded stuff, like calling raises oop with K8o and going broke with crappy TP hands. I think he tilts. BIGH I had no read on at the time; later, I found out that he was a retard cs monkey. I 4bet because I didn't want to play out of position 3 way with no real knowledge of where I am at; if I call, I think I have to mainly play for set value, and 7.50 is a lot to call for making sets. If I 3bet and get raised on a low board, I am comfortable dropping it; less so if I coldcall. Is this a bad way to play? Hand #1570011585000644: Chelsea (6-Max) 11585 Seat 1: vet0*** (227.05 in chips) Seat 2: turs*** (40.90 in chips) Seat 3: BIGH*** (116.05 in chips) Seat 8: CAPK*** (107.80 in chips) Seat 9: 1162*** (98.00 in chips) Seat 10: JMcCain#1 (106.20 in chips) BIGH***: posts small blind $0.50 CAPK***: posts big blind $1 Dealt to JMcCain#1 [ J T ]1162***: folds JMcCain#1: raises to $3 vet0***: folds turs***: calls BIGH***: calls CAPK***: folds @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 6 T Q ]BIGH***: bets $3 JMcCain#1: raises to $8.75 turs***: folds BIGH***: calls # # # TURN # # # [ 2 ]BIGH***: bets $13.75 JMcCain#1: calls &&& RIVER &&& [ 8 ]BIGH***: bets $20 JMcCain#1: calls Villain is stupid / cs. His crappy weak bets have always been weak hands; he hasn't shown any down yet I think, but I raised one earlier, and raised his weak turn lead, and he folded, and I've seen other people do the same to him. Turn and river I think were misplayed; I'm okay with my turn call, because it is a weaker/blocking bet, but still larger than he normally makes his bets, but I think the river should be let go - I'm getting 3:1, but he is usually more passive.
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Jul 24, 2008 18:50
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Ranma4703 posted:2nd hand I don't wanna comment on 1 or 3, or really even discuss your decision to four-bet the nines. Really, I'd like to address your analysis of a call. Set mining is hugely profitable, and your hand is significantly stronger than 22-66. We have to ignore the open-limper for the most part in this hand. There are three ways your hand could play out. First, and the worst case, BIGH four-bets you both. If his raising range after the open limp is about 20%, he's probably only four-betting the top 2% or so of his range, so 10% of the time you dump 7.50 and dont see a flop. Second, and best case, you call the 7.50 and BIGH calls as well. Now you're in a $25 pot with $93 behind and two people covering you. Your implied odds here skyrocket, because the pot is big enough where you don't have to overbet or checkraise to comfortably get all $93 in. We can't quantify how good your implied odds are, but they're solid. If, with the previous assumption, BIGH is raising 20%, then against a 3-bet and call we might say he's peeling the next ~5% of his range. Top 7% is still pretty premium in a six-max game, especially given the overlay and his closing the action. He'll have this part of his range 25% of the time. Third case scenario is you get heads up with CAPK who 3-bet rather than raised (and so is marginally more likely to stack off on the flop, given that his range is tighter and chock full of good hands). This scenario happens 65% of the time. Here's a summary of what I believe is an accurate description of the position you're in: 65% of the time you're calling with 1:13 implied odds 25% of the time you're calling with ridiculously better than 1:13 implied odds. A set in a big pot against a preflop raise and three bet is a powerhouse position, and this is worth gambling for. 10% of the time you lose 7.50 outright. For each condition: Scenario 1)1/8 of the time you flop a set and win, on average, something like 60BB. if he c-bets into you 100%, then the ~33% of his range that he'll put in on this hand nets you the preflop pot plus his stack (~110BB) and the ~66% of his range he folds after c-betting nets you ~35BB. 7/8 of the time you whiff and lose 7.50. Scenario 2)1/8 you sometimes win a gigantic pot, likely on average something like 80BB Scenario 3)You always lose 7.50 EV of call = ((.65)(1/8)(60)) + ((.65)(7/8)(-7.5)) + ((.25)(1/8)(80)) + ((.25)(7/8)(-7.5)) + (.10)(-7.5) = +0.72 bb/100 Your hand's set value alone makes this a breakeven call. Given that often (sometimes?) you'll win the hand without a set means you can opt to play this hand as a call. As for your choice to four-bet, I think it is marginally bad. If you don't like my call, certainly fold>4bet. 5463 fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jul 24, 2008 |
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Jul 24, 2008 20:02
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I have a note on CAPKAM or whatever that he calls my 3bets really light, I've seen him showdown hands like 67o / 89s after calling a 3bet oop preflop. I think I prefer to just call and play after the flop cause hes kinda spewy. With the jt I don't like the flop raise, its too small and he isn't folding anything that leads the flop. As played I fold turn, definately looks like you're being taken to value town. I don't really like preflop either, I just fold it there.
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Jul 25, 2008 00:21
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?2942205 Shove or raise over the super squeeze? I thought shoving looked slightly weaker because there's a lot of dead money to pick up. the raiser was 45/40 over only like 40 hands Biggy_ fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jul 25, 2008 |
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Jul 25, 2008 01:41
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?2942281 Obviously I'm betting, but whats the optimal amount? My stack is ~98 and pot is 112
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Jul 25, 2008 01:59
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Ranma, since we'll likely never play together again, here's a piece of advice for how to deal with players like me. Obviously I play like a maniac. You should never really get cute with a set here; I'm quite happy to check behind and keep the pot small when I have marginal holdings, which is most of the time... Also, it lets me draw cheaper, and you might not be able to get off your hand if I hit because my range is really any 2. I never have a queen here, because I'm never not c-betting that flop with a hand like AQ, KQ, QJ, QT, Q9, etc. Top pair for me is huge since I play so many hands, and you're paying me off most of the time with middle pair anyway, so I'm going to try to get the most value out of it. If you have a set there then you win a bunch of money. I'm more apt to fold when you check behind the flop and start betting the turn and river hard, because 90% of the time that just means you checked expecting me to bet so you could raise me huge, and you want to start getting value out of what you perceive to be the best hand. I most likely had a draw on the turn, and I have no idea what the results were but I'm 100% positive I had either AJdd or 78dd and that's about it, which makes your huge river bet kind of bad since I'm folding everything that you beat and shoving any flush. You gotta make your river bet smaller so you can get off your hand if you get raised here. This is a spot that I'm never raising without what I perceive to be the best hand (flush) since I get called down very lightly. Anyway, good luck. somewhat fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Jul 25, 2008 |
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Jul 25, 2008 02:49
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biggy hand1: i wouldnt shove over. your deep stacked, villian should not be squeezing without a good hand, but i wouldnt say its something he would call a shove on. Id call and evaluate flop. hand2: i think any bet gets him out really, but id go with 30-40ish??? i couldnt see him calling a shove. id like someone else to check my line as well, i could be giving a meh critique.
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Jul 25, 2008 03:44
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Ranma: I like hand 1, the bet size on the river looks pretty flexible, I think I would have bet slightly less, right around 1/2 pot size because I want to get paid off light here. If you think villian is the type who might come over the top of a smallish river bet w/ a bluff then this could be a bad idea, but I think his range of hands that you beat and he will still call with is fairly narrow. That said it looks like your hand is good, and a bet seems to be in order. Hand 2: Your 4 bet preflop is only looking for a fold, so if you're doing this were with 99 realize you're bluffing. If you're going to do this you should also be willing to make this type of play w/ your suited connectors as well as your monster hands though. I would probably lean more towards a fold here just because I won't want to call and then have Bigh come over the top again and never see a flop. However, as 5463 said if you feel that you can call for set value preflop and you're reasonably sure of seeing a flop this is probably a decent spot to set mine as most likely one of the two players has a big hand, and you're likely to get paid off big if you hit. Basically, reraise = bluff, call = set mining, fold = slightly nitty but low variance typical play. Hand 3: I would probably raise the flop also, but I'm generally raising here with just about anything I'm holding when he leads into you with such a weak bet, so my range here is anything from complete air to top set. When he calls your raise I would expect him to check the turn, and I would make a decent sized bet as a bluff. The way it played the turn and the river become very read dependent. Unless I know that he can be betting a mid pair here then I like a fold. From his bet sizing I wouldn't be surprised to see aq / kq that he's trying to get value from what he hopes is your mediocre holding.
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Jul 25, 2008 04:48
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Hands Full Tilt Poker Game #7362721761: Table Donna - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:17:01 ET - 2008/07/24 Seat 1: Damianitro ($5.20) Seat 2: Pepto_klepto ($9.40) Seat 3: fullstyle1902 ($12.15), is sitting out Seat 4: mello4512 ($8.75) Seat 5: hooksvsbird ($3.70) Seat 6: kurtstevens ($5.35) Seat 7: Keystoned ($9.60) Seat 8: Junedog79 ($7.65) Seat 9: scotty900 ($2.70) scotty900 posts the small blind of $0.05 Damianitro posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #8 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Keystoned [Jh Qc] Pepto_klepto folds mello4512 calls $0.10 hooksvsbird folds kurtstevens folds Keystoned raises to $0.30 scotty900 folds Damianitro folds mello4512 calls $0.20 *** FLOP *** [Kc As Th] mello4512 has 15 seconds left to act mello4512 checks Keystoned bets $0.40 mello4512 calls $0.40 *** TURN *** [Kc As Th] [Jc] mello4512 has 15 seconds left to act mello4512 checks Keystoned bets $0.90 mello4512 calls $0.90 *** RIVER *** [Kc As Th Jc] [Ah] mello4512 checks Keystoned bets $1.50 mello4512 raises to $7.15, and is all in Keystoned has 15 seconds left to act Keystoned calls $5.65 *** SHOW DOWN *** Raise preflop with qj from CO, get the first limper to call and I flop the world. Bet the flop for 2/3 the pot and get called, and the worst card I can see peels on the turn. I go ahead and bet the turn since I still have the nuts, but feel like I have almost no value here as it's unlikely I'm getting called by any worse hands. Villain surprise me by calling, and then I vomit river. After he checks I think I still have the best hand, and decide to try and get some thin value from a hand like a9 / a8 and bet. As soon as he shoves I tanked and was way on the side of folding for most of my time bank. I eventually called because of my original thought that its def possible that villain is way overvaluing trip aces here with a hand like a9 / a8. Full Tilt Poker Game #7363251003: Table Chandler Mews - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:57:41 ET - 2008/07/24 Seat 1: Nelli999 ($10.80) Seat 2: Keystoned ($19.60) Seat 3: xiami777 ($2) Seat 4: voodooaces ($3.85) Seat 5: kuokuolin ($10.85) Seat 6: ufmikey ($6.55) Seat 7: Jokerman0 ($3.70) Seat 8: Sushi33 ($3.45) Seat 9: Harley_D42 ($4.75) Keystoned posts the small blind of $0.05 xiami777 has 5 seconds left to act xiami777 is sitting out xiami777 has timed out voodooaces posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #1 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Keystoned [Ks Kc] xiami777 has returned kuokuolin folds ufmikey calls $0.10 Jokerman0 calls $0.10 Sushi33 raises to $0.30 Harley_D42 folds Nelli999 folds Keystoned raises to $1.20 voodooaces folds ufmikey folds Jokerman0 folds Sushi33 has 15 seconds left to act Sushi33 calls $0.90 *** FLOP *** [Ah 3c 9h] Keystoned bets $18.40, and is all in This seemed pretty standard, I reraise pre w/ kk, flop comes out A high but villain is very short and I feel I'm ahead here a huge amount of the time. I don't think is a very exciting hand, and I'm pretty confident in how I played it, just wanting to make sure. Full Tilt Poker Game #7322047554: Table Mesa Ridge - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:42:50 ET - 2008/07/21 Seat 1: CoachTrey ($10.25) Seat 2: klimanus ($2) Seat 3: D-Kicker ($7) Seat 4: Keystoned ($22.45) Seat 5: Cr8Chaos ($3.05) Seat 6: li1983 ($1.15) Seat 7: blackhaert ($35.95) Seat 8: myhappy ($9.90) Seat 9: MRT888 ($9.10) myhappy posts the small blind of $0.05 MRT888 posts the big blind of $0.10 The button is in seat #7 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Keystoned [Qd Ah] CoachTrey folds klimanus folds D-Kicker folds Keystoned raises to $0.30 Cr8Chaos folds li1983 folds blackhaert calls $0.30 myhappy folds MRT888 folds *** FLOP *** [7h 2h Qh] Keystoned bets $0.40 blackhaert calls $0.40 *** TURN *** [7h 2h Qh] [3s] Keystoned bets $1 blackhaert raises to $4.55 Keystoned calls $3.55 *** RIVER *** [7h 2h Qh 3s] [Ad] Keystoned checks blackhaert bets $10.65 Keystoned calls $10.65 Last hand, I've gone back and forth on how I played this and I can't decide on it. I flop top pair w/ the nut flush draw, bet the flop and turn but get raised on turn? Should I have checked the turn, or after I bet / got raised should I shove? On the river I checked to give him a chance to bluff, but does villain bluff with anything here? Should I fold to this river bet with rivered top two? What if the river was a blank and all I had was tptk?
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Jul 25, 2008 05:02
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