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Biggy_ posted:Yeah this was my thinking, I've been running pretty bad lately which is making me question some of the plays I am making. Cheers for the good posts Zero/Tepp The thing about a hand like this, I will pretty much always pay it off the first time against an unknown or a relative unknown or a 90 vpip fish. But if a guy plays something in a line like this, I sure as hell make sure I note it so I can take advantage of it later. You've got to look him up the first time with your hand and that board.
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Oct 17, 2008 03:23
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niknik posted:I turn top 2 here vs my villain who I have no reads on as I just sat down except that he is multitabling. He is taking the standard niklarse bluff line.. standard call down? I would definitely call. Worse two pairs are in his range, or he could c/r the flop as a bluff, barrel the turn, and shove teh river with air or a flush draw or 56 for double gutter, or he could have c/r'd the flop w/ A high and hit it on the turn, and overplaying it on the river (least likely option in my opinion). But his range is so much weaker than your hand.
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Oct 17, 2008 03:29
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Yeah you probably just gotta call that. It kinda sucks that he can't have any worse two pairs on the flop really but I guess he could have A2 or A4. I think he probably does take this line with his sets since he is OOP but if the positions were switched in this hand I think it would be a much better call down because he would be pretty likely to slowplay a set on this dry board. If you had more info about the villain it might be a place you can find a fold if villain is good. Once you guys get to the river I think it is a pretty bad 3barrel bluff spot for him, but you are still getting 2:1 and there's a possibility he is Vbetting worse hands so you still probably have to call, just something to think about. The reason I think it is a bad 3barrel spot is because you should have a pretty strong hand once you call the c/r and the turn bet once the ace hits.
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Oct 17, 2008 04:11
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niknik posted:I turn top 2 here vs my villain who I have no reads on as I just sat down except that he is multitabling. He is taking the standard niklarse bluff line.. standard call down? The only way this could be played more perfectly is if you took a while to think before calling the turn.
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Oct 17, 2008 04:12
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Looking for opinions on my line here. Some info about the table: it's been pretty tight, and it's been hard to get much money into the pot preflop. Raises, especially from EP are just foldarounds. UTG+1 has been kinda weak-tight but 3 and 4 bets with big hands preflop. BTN has been pretty loose and kinda wild overall. http://weaktight.com/461347 Preflop: I decided to go for a limp-reraise UTG here since I was sure I'd just get the blinds if I raised outright. I'll do this sometimes to get money in the pot when the table isn't co-operating. If no one raises, most of the stacks are big so I'm not stuck in a weird commitment spot. If UTG+1 calls, I figure he's got AK or maybe AQ, or QQ-99. If he 4bets, then I adjust him up to AA, KK or maybe AKs and would likely toss it since my equity is getting thinner. Flop: This is more or less what I wanted to flop: a nice overpair. I'm pretty sure that AA and KK are out of his range now, and I'm pretty sure he's not calling a 12BB re-raise preflop with 66 or lower. AK is still possible, but my equity looks great so I see no reason not to put in a big bet and commit. Turn: His call instead of a raise leads me to think he has JJ-99 and that AK is very unlikely. If he's sandbagging then so be it, the pot's too big now anyways to do much else than shove it. Any holes in my logic? I'm really starting to work on putting opponents on ranges and comparing my equity more (like I should.) I'm pretty sure my line is more or less standard here (except maybe the limp-reraise) but I'm still learning and felt like I should starting asking people who know more than me. Number19 fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Oct 17, 2008 |
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Oct 17, 2008 07:42
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I don't think KK is out when you limp/r utg. Some guys will call with KK to a 3bet cause they want to play post flop or they are afriad to just ship it with KK pf. If you are sure on your read on UTG+1 then KK is out. I don't like limp reraising. Your pot on the flop with that board is probably only getting 99+ to call. I am guessing he had KK or JJ here? If the table is folding to all sorts of raises. Raise more, with pp's, were you raising with other pps too? 99 and below? souLjah fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Oct 17, 2008 |
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Oct 17, 2008 08:55
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souLjah posted:I don't think KK is out when you limp/r utg. Some guys will call with KK to a 3bet cause they want to play post flop or they are afriad to just ship it with KK pf. If you are sure on your read on UTG+1 then KK is out. I don't like limp reraising. Your pot on the flop with that board is probably only getting 99+ to call. I am guessing he had KK or JJ here? He had 99. I'm pretty sure on my read on that guy, he'd been coming over the top on people a couple of times, one of which got to showdown as AKo. quote:If the table is folding to all sorts of raises. Raise more, with pp's, were you raising with other pps too? 99 and below? I was raising with a good assortment of stuff. My night was going pretty well up until this hand, and I was being fairly aggressive to push the tight folks out a decent amount. That was only the second PP I'd gotten, and the other was QQ as well. The only thing I hadn't done much of was 3-betting, but the opportunities really weren't all there. Most spots would have been OOP and I'm not fully comfortable 3-betting light-to-medium OOP quite yet. I've been getting most of my good to decent hands OOP tonight so it's been a bit of an interesting struggle.
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Oct 17, 2008 09:41
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Number19 posted:Looking for opinions on my line here. Some info about the table: it's been pretty tight, and it's been hard to get much money into the pot preflop. Raises, especially from EP are just foldarounds. The hands pretty much a disaster, limp-reraising is one of those plays you can really make an excuse for on any table conditions ("oh, they're playing super agro and loose so I can trap them, oh they're really weak so they'll fold unless I do this, oh they're all solid tags who will auto iso me so I'll freak them out"), but the reality is the play sucks most of the time especially at the micros. If its really a fold a thon I'd start opening like 30-40% of the time. For some reason, I doubt you made this adjustment. And if you aren't adjusting to a full blind steal/agro preflop attack thon, leave the table, there's no point. On to the hand, once the guy is roped in its boringly standards, maybe bet less, but since its 25NL who cares just do what you did. There's really nothing to anaylse here, its great you're trying to hand read but I mean any monkey with a keyboard could play this hand, you don't really need to think too hard about it.
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Oct 17, 2008 09:51
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Number19 posted:Preflop: I decided to go for a limp-reraise UTG here since I was sure I'd just get the blinds if I raised outright. I'll do this sometimes to get money in the pot when the table isn't co-operating. If no one raises, most of the stacks are big so I'm not stuck in a weird commitment spot. If UTG+1 calls, I figure he's got AK or maybe AQ, or QQ-99. If he 4bets, then I adjust him up to AA, KK or maybe AKs and would likely toss it since my equity is getting thinner. your lrr size is really really bad, it should be like $5 or $6.
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Oct 17, 2008 10:42
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Number19 posted:Preflop: I decided to go for a limp-reraise UTG here since I was sure I'd just get the blinds if I raised outright. LuckySevens posted:If its really a fold a thon I'd start opening like 30-40% of the time. For some reason, I doubt you made this adjustment. And if you aren't adjusting to a full blind steal/agro preflop attack thon, leave the table, there's no point. blah_blah posted:your lrr size is really really bad, it should be like $5 or $6. Both of them nail this. At micro there is no excuse for lrr ever, but if you are going to do it, don't give the guy in position on you odds to stick around with small/med pairs. You are giving him 3-1 preflop with that small reraise, and if he sets, he knows he's pretty much gauranteed to stack you off because you are now representing a huge hand which is he still getting to see the flop for relatively cheaply considering the action. If the table is supertight/passive, sevens is giving fantastic advice. Don't try to get tricksy with big hands, just open tons more marginal hands when you have position in hijack/co/button and start raking in the blinds. Sure, just taking down the blinds doesn't have the same sexy appeal as playing for stacks, but it adds up and occurs a hell of a lot more often when you are taking them down 3-4 times an orbit relatively uncontested. This is not too mention that you start getting more action when you do get big hands because they start to think 'he doesn't have anything, he's been raising constantly!' Next thing you know, you have a guy shoving on you with second pair when you flopped something like top set. It's a beautiful thing. Number19 posted:Flop: This is more or less what I wanted to flop: a nice overpair. I'm pretty sure that AA and KK are out of his range now, and I'm pretty sure he's not calling a 12BB re-raise preflop with 66 or lower. AK is still possible, but my equity looks great so I see no reason not to put in a big bet and commit. I don't like the PSB. I'd go with a 2/3-3/4 pot bet on flop. Maybe gets middle pairs to come along as well as leaving you with a little more than a potsized bet on the turn, instead of having a little less than a PSB and that does make a difference when you get it in. If you go with say, $5.50 here instead of 7.45, you now have $18 in the pot on the turn with around $20 behind instead of a $22 pot with $18 back. However, AA/KK/AK were almost never in his range before you got here, if he's been as aggressive as you say. Therefore, you are eyeballing for small/middle pairs up to JJ when he calls unless he's capable of floating but his turn call pretty much nixes that his flop call isn't a float. Number19 posted:Turn: His call instead of a raise leads me to think he has JJ-99 and that AK is very unlikely. If he's sandbagging then so be it, the pot's too big now anyways to do much else than shove it. He didn't raise because he might be sandbagging, it's because you shoved, just to clarify. There wasn't anything tricksy to his call here, you had no money left to get in and he believed his 99 was good. The guy is a retard. Only JJ+ (and based on your perceived history, AA/KK are not really in his range at this point) or a flopped set calls on this turn unless you've got thousands of hands of history with this guy and he thinks you are capable of this pre and postflop line with air. You are representing a monster and him calling with 99 to your shove is stupid. Just make sure you write a note on the guy that says something to the effect of 'retard, does not consider opponents holding, only his own. Valuetown repeatedly with TPTK or better' Teppec fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 17, 2008 |
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Oct 17, 2008 19:44
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Wow, lots to reply back to here:LuckySevens posted:The hands pretty much a disaster, limp-reraising is one of those plays you can really make an excuse for on any table conditions ("oh, they're playing super agro and loose so I can trap them, oh they're really weak so they'll fold unless I do this, oh they're all solid tags who will auto iso me so I'll freak them out"), but the reality is the play sucks most of the time especially at the micros. Fair enough. I was trying a different tack because I wasn't having much luck doing anything else. It's certainly not something I would do often. I'm not a huge fan of it, and will leave it in my 1-in-5000 or less playbook. blah_blah posted:your lrr size is really really bad, it should be like $5 or $6. Noted, if I'm gonna do this in the future (very unlikely at the micros) I'll pop it up for way more. Teppec posted:If the table is supertight/passive, sevens is giving fantastic advice. Don't try to get tricksy with big hands, just open tons more marginal hands when you have position in hijack/co/button and start raking in the blinds. Sure, just taking down the blinds doesn't have the same sexy appeal as playing for stacks, but it adds up and occurs a hell of a lot more often when you are taking them down 3-4 times an orbit relatively uncontested. This is something I know I need to do more of. That or just leave tables (as Sevens said.) Pretty soon after this hand I did actually start to make this adjustment and was raising in position with lots more holdings and punishing limpers and the blinds a fair bit. It had it's up and downs, mostly because my holdings ended up fairly weak and all the guys at the table were pretty straightforward and weren't standing up up for themselves with weak hands. I never got holdings to surprise them with, but that's just variance and bad luck. It was pointless to continue aggression against most of these rocks since my fold equity postflop against almost all of them was terrible. quote:I don't like the PSB. I'd go with a 2/3-3/4 pot bet on flop. Maybe gets middle pairs to come along as well as leaving you with a little more than a potsized bet on the turn, instead of having a little less than a PSB and that does make a difference when you get it in. If you go with say, $5.50 here instead of 7.45, you now have $18 in the pot on the turn with around $20 behind instead of a $22 pot with $18 back. I can see how a smaller bet also helps me here in case he has hit a set. If I bet 2/3 of the pot, then I haven't committed quite so much and could more reasonably consider folding to a raise. It also leaves me with more room to get my money in on the turn if I think I have him crushed. quote:He didn't raise because he might be sandbagging, it's because you shoved, just to clarify. There wasn't anything tricksy to his call here, you had no money left to get in and he believed his 99 was good. Sorry, bad wording on my behalf there. I meant on the flop he didn't raise. If he'd raised on the flop then I'd have adjusted him towards a set and had to consider it a bit more. quote:Just make sure you write a note on the guy that says something to the effect of 'retard, does not consider opponents holding, only his own. Valuetown repeatedly with TPTK or better' I did just that. Thanks for all the input guys, I have some new insights into things to do and not do.
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Oct 17, 2008 23:21
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How do I value raise 2 pairs http://www.pokerhand.org/?3335932 So, how bad was the river raise?
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Oct 18, 2008 01:10
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Well your hand is grossly under repped so the river raise isn't too bad as long as the river being an ace doesn't restrict his valuebetting range to > a pair of aces (it very well might). The way you got there is pretty bad though. I don't know what your table conditions were here but iso'ing with this hand in the HJ is not going to be good unless the CO and BTN are pretty tight and the UTG limper is loose and bad (folds to cbets a lot). Once you get to the flop there is a ton of value there so you really need to bet, there are a million draws that will call you. Once you get to the turn you should be raising there too, and as played the river really depends on the player, but it's not going to be a fold.
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Oct 18, 2008 01:18
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rouliroul posted:How do I value raise 2 pairs I have no idea how you don't bet in position on the flop or raise on the turn. You've crushed me almost everytime we've gotten into hands together, but this confuses me. How do you not protect your hand here when you get the flop that you want but it's very drawish with two other people to the flop? Also, I think he was the CO zero. As played, I like the river raise. You are never putting him on a set here because he made the same mistake of not donking out flop with two others in the hand (although maybe he was expecting to c/r?). Non-set pairs lower than a J, busted spade draws that have a pair on board, other marginal to good aces and maybe a suited 89 from BB depending on your reads of him are probably alot of his range that might get played this way. I think in most situations where the hand gets to the river like this, you are ahead and the river raise is good. Any idea how often he's willing to barrel the river with something like 33-77,TT when a river ace falls or something like Ax spades after getting called on the turn or barreling turn with a naked ace?
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Oct 18, 2008 04:52
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Preflop, I'm on the cutoff and the table is somewhat weak-tight. I'm the only one raising wide on the button here. My thinking on the flop was to keep the pot small with top pair bad kicker, but multiway I should have bet to define my hand better. When the turn hit I thought "I have to slowplay this" which I'm not too sure about. The river raise was to get value from a good Ace. Chan pointed out that it was bad since no worse hand would call it. I tend to agree, since I raised to get value from a good Ace, but a good Ace would have raised pf. Im definitely not folding the river though. rouliroul fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Oct 18, 2008 |
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Oct 18, 2008 05:34
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Here are some hero call spots. http://weaktight.com/464007 Villain had been pretty loose preflop (60/20) in limping and calling, and pretty passive and call stationy after the flop. Once a passive guy full pots it out of nowhere it sends up a flag for me. Usually when players like this full pot it they have a big hand. However, I know this guy can't valuebet thin at all so he is basically repping only 35 for the straight, or like 42 or J2 that made two pair. The flush draw missed, so he could be bluffing with that but besides that I don't think there is much in his range that calls flop and can end up bluffing the river except maybe some gutshots that missed like 78. Call/fold? http://weaktight.com/463984 Villain in this hand is pretty unknown to me, I think he just sat down recently. I have noticed he isn't overly fishy or loose, he seems like a standard passive micro stakes player. On the turn he called me very quickly. This leads me to believe I am good here almost always, and that he almost never has a flush or set. I also thought that if he had a jack and hit trips he would have to think about it a little bit as well. So the river is a gay card and he 1/2 pots it. I don't really expect guys like this to bluff a lot but given that I think he has a lot of 1 card FDs in his range he is probably bluffing them some percentage of the time. So it comes down to how often he has a jack or a hand like Ah8x and backed into a full house. Call/fold? e: keep in mind that villain will not valuebet 8s full every time. ZeroStar fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Oct 19, 2008 |
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Oct 19, 2008 04:44
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ZeroStar posted:pretty passive and call stationy after the flop. This. Why isn't JT in his range? I can completely see a passive player like this limping in with JT and not raising flop or turn when you bet for him, but potting river because, as you said, you know he isn't capable of a thin vbet. You have third pair with crappy kicker to a PSB river bet. Passive and stationy players don't PSB rivers without having something there generally. Easy fold. ZeroStar posted:seems like a standard passive micro stakes player. On the turn he called me very quickly. This leads me to believe I am good here almost always, and that he almost never has a flush or set. If he's standard passive micro, I think he's most likely going to show large pairs with a heart here or AJ/KJ/QJ with a heart. Those are really the only hands I can see you getting called and not raised on both flop and turn. 1/2 pot on the end is kind of scary but I think you need to call because there is enough of his range that doesn't have a jack, 8 or a flopped flush to make it good along with you getting 3-1 odds to call. Plus, cake players are incapable of bets beyond minbet, minraise, 1/2pot and PSB. 1/2 pot is usually a sign of weakness from these guys. In your spot I can see his brain working like this. "I have a (insert over pair here, maybe with a heart) So I'll only fold if I see a fourth heart. OOOH, he didn't get his flush, no heart on the river and he checked so he can't have a jack or an 8, bet!"
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Oct 19, 2008 07:20
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rouliroul posted:When the turn hit I thought "I have to slowplay this" lol why would that go through your mind? slow playing the wettest board in the history of internet pokers multiway is not a good plan. If you have a low cbet% (as cbet % drops I would be checking this back more and more) then checking this flop is totally standard at least some chunk of the time. If I checked this flop back I would be raising a decent amount of turns (both blanks and cards that improve me) on this board though fwiw Pimple fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Oct 19, 2008 |
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Oct 19, 2008 19:49
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Yeah in the first spot he probably can have JT also, I expect him to raise it on the turn a good amount of the time though. On the 2nd hand I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't think the 1/2 pot is really weakness, I expect him to use that betsize with a J in that spot.
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Oct 19, 2008 21:54
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Live game $10 / $20. villain is not terrible, but he calls with bad odds on draws (typical old Chinese guy in Macau). hero is playing very loose and just felted someone with a retard hand. Hero limps button with J5s (spades), BB villain raises to $80, two callers, Hero calls. flop comes J 6 3 rainbow; villain bets $300, fold, fold, hero calls; effective stacks now $1600 turn comes Jc (club flush draw on board). Villain raises to $500; Hero ?
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Oct 20, 2008 03:26
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Limp/calling a raise with J5s I really really don't like. Raise if you want, but I'd rather just fold. As played, I don't think I can ever fold, especially if you have a really loose image. Bet/get it in and hope he has an overpair.
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Oct 20, 2008 04:35
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I was sure I was ahead, I was just wondering about the best way to get his money in. As it was, I pushed and he instafolded, grumbling that I had pocket 3s. I don't really think it's likely that he had AJ, but maybe he did, because when I showed him the 5 he got all pissy and started bitching in Cantonese for 5 minutes. In any case I was doing OK playing wonky hands, and that's why I played it, I'm usually really tight.
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Oct 20, 2008 04:41
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?3344112 MicChipper is 20/11/3.5. I have almost no hands on Poker_Queen_Lu. Pretty normal NL25 table. You guys are probably going to tell me this is super standard and make fun of me but I would appreciate your advice nonetheless.
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Oct 20, 2008 04:46
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Zach: I think bet/folding the turn is ultra standard with 100bb stacks PF but here you probably just have to bet and get it in. Given that both of them just called the flop I don't think there are many better hands in their range other than straights, unless they just really really love to slowplay. I would make it around $8. Squibz, I think you can flat call there if you think he will call a river bet with an overpair. I wouldn't worry too much about being drawn out on here or trying to get all of his money by raising the turn because he is most likely folding everything less than a jack. And that guy didn't fold AJ, he probably was just cursing you for playing J5 or something.
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Oct 20, 2008 05:13
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I wouldn't say super standard. That's an ugly flop though. First, you bet too small on the flop. Bet something closer to a full pot bet instead of just over half. You certainly aren't making any draws go away (such as AT) with that bet size. On turn, depending on your opinion of the two villains, you either bet (betting something in the neighborhood of $6-8) or you check/fold. If you bet anything over $6, you are certainly calling a shove from Poker_Queen-Lu, his stack is too short. You might be able to bet/fold to MicChipper, but alot of it would depend on what Lu does. It's a rough spot 3-way, and TJ is definitely in the range of either of them here, along with alot of straight draws and sets. I'm a donkey and would probably bet/call because it's 'hurr' aces at micro in the same spot. As played, you are out of position in a multiway pot and I think the correct play here is a bet/fold. Actually, something like this. Bet $6 Lu shoves MicChipper folds You? Call Bet $6 Lu Calls/folds/shoves MicChipper Shoves You? Fold Bet $6 Either/both Call Re-evaluate river, but the pot is so large at that point you are check/calling pretty much any push. Other option might be to just jam the turn and force them to make a decision. It should certainly push out or give miserable odds to draws. I don't like it though, I'd rather give them chances to make bad folds if they are somehow ahead of you or have good draws.
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Oct 20, 2008 05:15
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Squibz what the gently caress, the loose Asian man didn't fold AJ. Don't even consider the possibility. You hit one of the few near-nuts hands you could with J5s, which is one of the reasons you called in position with a wonky hand. It's not good, but it's not horrible. Just don't pretend like he could have folded AJ there. Come on. 
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Oct 20, 2008 06:27
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Squibz posted:Live game $10 / $20. my piece of advice would be don't play 10/20
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Oct 20, 2008 12:46
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M E A T Y posted:my piece of advice would be don't play 10/20 Well, I'm up about $10000, so I must be doing something right; in any case, I posted the hand in order to improve my play, not to get trolled. Squibz fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Oct 20, 2008 |
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Oct 20, 2008 13:34
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You don't even have 100 BB, he never folds a J here ever ever. I probably call and give him rope since you're way ahead or way behind and I think if he's going to call a raise with an overpair then he will get the money in anyway on the river one way or another, so at least by calling this way you can add some times where he'll make some stupid shove on the river with some bullshit.
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Oct 20, 2008 14:44
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M E A T Y posted:my piece of advice would be don't play 10/20 im pretty sure he's playing in HKD which means it's like 1.25/2.5USD
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Oct 20, 2008 15:39
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http://weaktight.com/468929 Haven't played with this villain much, but I have him marked from a previous session as being tight preflop and passive in general. I've basically noticed the same trend this session but I haven't played with him after the flop yet. His stats are 16/6. I think it's a pretty standard two barrel spot but I'm not too sure on the river. It's not a card I'm too happy about but I still have 7 high and I think he has a lot of weak hands in his range. I wanted to make my bet size pretty big because I really didn't want him looking me up with 4x or something, I think it could have been a little bigger still.
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Oct 22, 2008 01:27
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ZeroStar posted:http://weaktight.com/468929 I really like the bet. You are almost never getting raised because the only hands raising you from a passive guy like this are sets, and sets are raising you on either flop or turn, and queens probably raise turn as well to protect against draws. You'll also fold out tons of draws that stuck around, possibly people who paired the flop, and maybe even a middle pair if he's tight enough. I do think you'll get looked up alot too, possibly even a little lightly, but not often enough to make it a bad place to 3-barrel. And if you do get looked up, you can use it to your advantage later.
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Oct 22, 2008 02:04
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I like this until the river. Since you're BB it's plausible that you have 3-6, but also stuff like 24, 52, 45. It's also *somewhat* likely that you have Q5,4,2, but I still think you're getting looked up with A5 or 66+ once the second queen hits. A set is almost totally ruled out at 6-max, as I think it's raising almost all the time with 100bb+ deep effective stacks. If any sort of rubbish board comes out in a limped pot, I'm definitely betting at it from BB, though, and I like your idea in that respect (although you were open ended, I'm saying I'd do it with air also). Let me know how it turned out.
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Oct 22, 2008 02:30
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Squibz posted:I like this until the river. Since you're BB it's plausible that you have 3-6, but also stuff like 24, 52, 45. It's also *somewhat* likely that you have Q5,4,2, but I still think you're getting looked up with A5 or 66+ once the second queen hits. A flopped set is almost totally ruled out at 6-max, as I think it's raising almost all the time with 100bb+ deep effective stacks.
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Oct 22, 2008 02:31
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Squibz posted:You know technically you can get probation for empty quoting.
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Oct 22, 2008 02:56
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Yeah well there's the message that says that the forums will act strangely. I actually edited there but it showed up as a quote. Sorry.
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Oct 22, 2008 04:04
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Squibz posted:I like this until the river. Since you're BB it's plausible that you have 3-6, but also stuff like 24, 52, 45. It's also *somewhat* likely that you have Q5,4,2, but I still think you're getting looked up with A5 or 66+ once the second queen hits. A set is almost totally ruled out at 6-max, as I think it's raising almost all the time with 100bb+ deep effective stacks. The problem with not betting is he NEVER wins this hand if he checks river. Either he gets bet at or the other guy checks behind and 7 high is NOT winning here. Now, in some spots it's ok to give up, but the villain limped in pre and there is no expectation or indication that he had a hand preflop or made a hand postflop. Most likely he's on some kind of draw or very weak marginal hand which you can usually bet a tight passive player off of relatively easily. That's why they are tight passive. Even those kind of players raise on a drawish board like this if they have a made hand on flop or turn. Combine that with the fact that it's highly unlikely that he gets raised here which means he gets to see villains hand if he does get looked up and gets more information, betting is the only way to go. Checking the river seems really awful here. I think the only real decision is how much to bet that will get folds without risking too much if you get looked up.
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Oct 22, 2008 05:11
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Squibz: I am not betting in this spot all the time just because the flop is low cards. It's good to go after some limped pots, but 3 ways against guys who are probably going to call pretty light I won't normally have pure air here. You are right when you say that some of his hands are still going to call me here because he won't think I have a queen very much anymore. I don't think he is calling all the time with them though, and I am hoping mainly to fold out flush draws and stuff like Ax that had a wheel draw and overcards. I am still convinced the river is a good spot to bet and for now I also like the bet sizing. I am somewhat on the fence in that area because I think there is a decent chunk of his range that I can fold out by betting very very tiny, like $4. I think that that is the best play If I can't ever make him fold a weak pair by betting bigger here, but for now I am still assuming he will fold some 4x and 5x hands. I like the betting really small line a lot but it has to be in pretty specific spots, I learned it from one of mdm13's videos so check those out if you want more info. As for results if you were curious he raised me to like $24 or something so I am pretty sure he had AQ or Qx of clubs.
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Oct 22, 2008 05:44
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Teppec posted:The problem with not betting is he NEVER wins this hand if he checks river. Either he gets bet at or the other guy checks behind and 7 high is NOT winning here. That being said, half pot (or even less) seems reasonable as long as the villain isn't tricky, as he's not scaring away any hand that beats him, and air is folding almost always (even to 1/3 pot I think, which might even look stronger than half).
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Oct 22, 2008 05:46
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I am surprised at the raise on the end, but I think you are right and he's packing Qxcc. Not many other hands, even with queens, are raising you here. I still think the bet itself is ++.
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Oct 22, 2008 05:49
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