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ZeroStar posted:I really don't like 4bet folding QQ. You are getting almost 2:1 and have 40% equity against a range of AK and KK+, this has to be a snap call once you 4bet. spot on and he will have JJ here too
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Oct 27, 2008 01:56
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wtf is this? http://weaktight.com/479175
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Oct 27, 2008 03:50
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niknik posted:wtf is this? Any info on villain? Without any reads, I'd say you are massively ahead of most of his preflop limp/flatting range here in a BvB. I mean, really, how often is AA/KK limp/flatting instead of 3-betting here once you raise? I guess he could have something like A7s or 33, but it's unlikely. In position, when he pots in to you, I'd say you need to raise because there is a reasonable probability of him staying with you as well. That's a pretty strong bet for someone who limped/flat. Maybe Kxs or some middle pair. Not sure how much though. Something like 60-70ish? If he shoves over call. If he just calls turn maybe check behind on river if he lets you because he sure as hell isn't on a draw here unless he oop floated something like 89/9T/TJ spades.
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Oct 27, 2008 06:26
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What do you know about the SB? Stats / reads? Is he the type to limp / call with some cracking hand like 76s when semi deep stacked? I think his line makes sense for something like pocket 3's trying to induce a raise, or he could simply be making a move when the K hits on the turn. Without knowing his range / mentality, it's difficult to make a recommendation in that spot.
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Oct 27, 2008 06:32
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niknik posted:wtf is this? a pretty standard calldown?
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Oct 27, 2008 14:06
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I stopped the HH at the wrong place heh. I called turn and he overbet shoved a Q river. Also no reads, he just sat about 20 hands ago. http://weaktight.com/479175
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Oct 27, 2008 17:14
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niknik posted:I stopped the HH at the wrong place heh. I called turn and he overbet shoved a Q river. I just fold readless, he could easily have a 7 that was going for a c/r on the flop and thinks you won't fold the flop.
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Oct 27, 2008 17:18
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nachos posted:a pretty standard calldown? Why is it a standard calldown? I could see folding to a river overbet shove, but on the turn why is a raise incorrect?
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Oct 27, 2008 18:23
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By calling you let him bluff again on the river and raising folds out those bluffs. He can have nothing else for value on this board but 7x, 33, or Kx that is willing to get in for stacks and I don't even think Kx is going to play that strongly most of the time (full pot bet on the turn). Basically you will be getting in some money regardless, but calling and not raising creates more value when you give him extra chance to bluff. Raising only gets him to put money in with value hands and his value range crushes yours for the most part.
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Oct 27, 2008 18:33
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fun hands from earlier his stats are like 45ish vpip, 70% btn steal, 11-12% 3bet im 2 tabling him and hes pretty decent so here are some of his tendencies 1) 4bet/folds more than flats 3bets preflop, also likes to 5b shove with a variety of hands 2) folds to a lot of second barrels postflop 3) capable of hand reading reasonably well, no idea how much of a station he sees me as but i havent made any big calldowns 4) made a somewhat biggish call when his hand was underrepped after he checked back the flop with top pair of tens, i lead a Q turn and A river and he calls down with KT. i was betting JT this hand so he knows i can vbet real thin and also turn made hands into bluffs 5) i c/r a ton of flops and lead a ton of turns when he checks back, hand 2 is the first time hes raised one of these leads 1) http://www.pokerhand.org/?3376001 edit: regarding this hand, his river vbet is larger than usual. i think he usually bets closer to 2/3 pot here edit2: wtf forgot the most important read, he leads occasionally. lead/fold on a dry board and leads a reasonable amount on wet ones like this with what i assume is a drawy type of hand. ive called flop and turn on another hand before with like midpair. 2) http://www.pokerhand.org/?3376015 second hand happened soon after i stacked him TT > 47s preflop and i felt like he was raising more buttons and playing quicker. this is the second time in this match hes 5b shoved a suited connector into my overpair preflop. question for the second hand is does anyone like a river crai over a call? nachos fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Oct 28, 2008 |
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Oct 28, 2008 02:13
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Hi guys and girls, I dont think ive posted here before but here goes, im really sorta.. bummed about this hand, yet i know i could've put him on a multiple amount of hands he mixes up his play from time to time going from Open Shoving (even in SB) to min-raising in the CO. but russians.. what do we know. Said hand in Question. http://www.pokerhand.org/?3377221 Being in the BB with JTo, and he raised pot Preflop (NL100) to $3.50 and i called, Flop comes down JT7 (rainbow) so i flop top two, he bets, i raise (making it enough for him not to call (i thought). He's holding AQ Diamonds, which he had an initial Gutshot on the flop, but i dont understand from here on in. The turn brings another D giving him a Backdoor Nut Flush draw. and you can prob guess the rest. As i stated before, i havent posted here, and im really looking to get some valuable feedback on my play or potential plays i could've pulled in this hand (possibly Jamming on the Turn to cut off the gutshot / Flush draw?) but i really would love some imput into this. Cheers.
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Oct 28, 2008 10:16
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First of all, fold preflop. You aren't sure when you flop top two, so how are you going to be sure unless you flop the nutter? JTo is a pretty nothing hand OOP (as most are), I suggest staying tight when OOP and looser when in position as a good habit. Next, flop c/r is fine but I might make it a touch more, but w/e. On the river don't bet 45, shove. Other than that, looks fine. And if a guy outdrawing with bad odds bums you out... you're going to have a long and frustrating poker career. poo poo happens, people play bad, you can't win every hand, but you'll win the pot here an awful lot. If I was your coach though your preflop call would scare me the most.
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Oct 28, 2008 13:32
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I think that if you consider the implied odds (parabol's stack), it's not a bad call by his villain. I already pointed this out in IRC, but I'm curious about my math. There's $7.50 in the pot on the flop. He raises $4.75, you reraise rather smallish to $11.45, making him need to call $6.70 to $23.70, which is something like 4 to 1. If we only count his absolute nut outs (assuming he assumes you have two pair or better), then he has 4 outs which is something like 10 to 1. However, you've got 90 behind at this point, and if he's counting on getting at least one bet out of you and stacking you some of the time, then he's probably reasonably safely more than 10 to 1 for the call (implied odds). (assume one bet is about $22) Stacking you 1/4 of the time: (22 * .75) + (90 * .25) = $39 implied value; 6.70 / (30.4 + 39) = ~10 to 1. Stacking you 1/3 of the time: (22 * .66) + (90 * .33) = $44.52 implied value; 6.70 / (30.4 + 44.52) = ~9 to 1 ... thus even if he figures on stacking you a third of the time if he hits (and assumes you have the nuts - even 89 for the straight), his call is actually reasonable (even vs your weak 3-bet). Now, if you'd raised to $15-$19, he'd probably be unable to call you correctly (thus luckysevens' comment about 3-bet size). Once the flush draw comes it's pretty hard not for him to call you, and again, I'm not going to get into the math, but I think he's probably correctly calling you *if he thinks he can stack you always when he hits*. Assuming you don't fold, I think probably your first mistake was your baby 3-bet and your second mistake was your river bet when the scare card hits. I'm a huge donkey though so take this with a grain of salt; what do the better players have to say? Squibz fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Oct 28, 2008 |
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Oct 28, 2008 16:23
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Squibz posted:I think probably your first mistake was your baby 3-bet and your second mistake was your river bet when the scare card hits. I'm a huge donkey though so take this with a grain of salt; what do the worse players have to say? That's me. Preflop: Fold Flop: C/r more Turn: Jam Squibz put out alot of math, not sure if it's right but the thought behind it is generally correct. The guy calls that small c/r, not because he's looking at stacking you, but because he probably thinks he's ahead if he gets any a/k/q turn. You've got to make him pay to play, so to speak. Your twopair is nice, but it's not invulnerable. Bet a little more and protect it, while making all draws pay. When the second diamond comes, just jam. There are lots of draws and worse hands calling you here. You'll be called often enough that you'll be getting value. I say jam, because almost any reasonable turn bet (such as the $25 you made) leaves you with less than a pot sized bet on the river (in your case you had $60 back in an $80 pot after turn action). You'll feel compelled to get your money in on ANY river card. So, just get it in on the turn. It will probably help you get calls because the line looks bluffish, which is what you want when you overbet shove top 2 and suspect draws/overpairs/top pairs unable to fold. As played to river, that bet is horrible, why would you leave $15 back that you know for a fact you are calling if he shoves anyway? Just jam or check/call when he jams. Actually, I think I like the check/call better because you might induce if someone was trying to float you looking for scare cards, and non-nut or second nut flushes may poorly check behind you saving you money. Either way as played all your money goes in on the river no matter how betting goes but a check/call might save you a little and you just can't put guys on runner runner flushes generally, when there are so many worse hands they could be chasing with or calling with here. Oh, also, results don't matter, we didn't need to know his hand, try not to show them when posting hands because correct play from your position isn't reliant on what he has, only your reads on his playstyle, what the board looks like, and lastly what you have. Teppec fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Oct 28, 2008 |
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Oct 28, 2008 16:50
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I agree with Teppec, if you've made up your mind to get it in, just push the turn. I don't think you're really going to like seeing a lot of cards on the river.
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Oct 28, 2008 17:07
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PokerStars Game #21569375433: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/10/28 15:35:22 ET Table 'Telamon IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: Tj Pokerstar ($148.40 in chips) Seat 2: peterjenning ($208.15 in chips) Seat 3: SongheJe ($70 in chips) Seat 4: Crazy Nate ($261.70 in chips) Seat 5: Kodnyc ($100 in chips) Seat 6: a7ofspades ($47.45 in chips) SongheJe: posts small blind $1 Crazy Nate: posts big blind $2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to peterjenning [Qs As] Kodnyc: folds a7ofspades: raises $4 to $6 Tj Pokerstar: folds peterjenning: calls $6 SongheJe: folds Crazy Nate: calls $4 *** FLOP *** [Qc Jh 6d] Crazy Nate: checks a7ofspades: bets $12 peterjenning: calls $12 Crazy Nate: raises $12 to $24 a7ofspades: folds peterjenning: calls $12 *** TURN *** [Qc Jh 6d] [Tc] Crazy Nate: bets $48 peterjenning: folds hand 1: a7ofspades is a shortstacker but i don't think hes a pro one but hes playing multiple tables. i elect to call the button which is most likely a mistake because i should isolate the clown. nate is 17/14 taggy and on a couple tables with me but i really havent seen the name in the games in the last couple months. should i just fold to the flop raise? PokerStars Game #21570048920: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/10/28 16:00:05 ET Table 'Magdalena IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: snake0eyes00 ($284.20 in chips) Seat 2: meeloche ($211.50 in chips) Seat 3: ThieveryCon ($139.95 in chips) Seat 4: zockerolli ($178.50 in chips) Seat 5: peterjenning ($204.45 in chips) Seat 6: cdeez8 ($202.75 in chips) cdeez8: posts small blind $1 snake0eyes00: posts big blind $2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to peterjenning [3d 5d] meeloche: folds ThieveryCon: calls $2 zockerolli: folds peterjenning: raises $8 to $10 cdeez8: folds snake0eyes00: folds ThieveryCon: calls $8 *** FLOP *** [Ks 7h Jh] ThieveryCon: bets $6 peterjenning: raises $19.40 to $25.40 ThieveryCon: calls $19.40 *** TURN *** [Ks 7h Jh] [3c] ThieveryCon: bets $20 thieverycon is like a 71/0 clown constantly limping pre, and just donking flops randomly (i saw him flat 94s out of the bb vs an utg open and just donk for 1/3 pot and check it down with absolute air). raising his flop donks should obv be pretty profitable but then i get to this turn with absolutely no idea of what to do. thoughts? PokerStars Game #21570201706: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/10/28 16:05:38 ET Table 'Telamon IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: ken2346 ($218.40 in chips) Seat 2: peterjenning ($206.70 in chips) Seat 3: samerdahrouj ($228.45 in chips) Seat 4: Crazy Nate ($296.30 in chips) Seat 5: pokerhaasje ($201 in chips) Seat 6: TheDarkJoker ($200 in chips) ken2346: posts small blind $1 peterjenning: posts big blind $2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to peterjenning [Kd Ad] samerdahrouj: calls $2 Crazy Nate: folds pokerhaasje: raises $6 to $8 TheDarkJoker: folds ken2346: folds peterjenning: raises $21 to $29 samerdahrouj: folds pokerhaasje: calls $21 *** FLOP *** [3h 4s 7s] peterjenning i have experience with this villain at 1/2 and 2/4 hu so his stats would kind of skew the hand but hes 28/22 which is like super tight at hu. ch/f? bet?
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Oct 28, 2008 23:19
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I generally go ahead and bet out on these flops about half to 2/3 of the time depending on my read of the opponent. I want to make it so that I'll have an overpair vs. overcards about half and half here. I would just use some method of randomizing and bet here about that often, about 2/3 pot. Without a further read that they're particuarly tricky I probably give up to a raise (but with a read I might repush), and I would normally check/give up on a blank turn (to balance this if I had an overpair and they called I would try for a check shove on the turn) I just try to bet at about the frequency such that if I get raised and have to fold I can at least figure that my range is such that I'm going to have it enough of the time that raising isn't all that profitable for them in the long term. Edit: Talking about hand 3 I mean. Also, the other benefit of betting out is some lower stakes players will flat with a pair here and then have to fold if the turn is any broadway and you bet, so even if called you have more outs than just an A and K. Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 29, 2008 |
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Oct 29, 2008 00:01
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bbc what it dew posted:6-max Hand 1, I don't mind the flat preflop although 3-betting him is probably better, but on the flop, why do you flat A7s cbet? Why not raise here? I mean, you've got tptk on a potentially drawish board and it's 3-way AND you have position. If BB comes over the top, then evaluate and call or kick it in right there, instead of facing another tough spot on the turn and most certainly the river if it gets that far. I really hate the flop call both times, seems way too passive in this spot. That check/minraise is really loving gay too. What the hell does it mean? Hand 2, how often does he donk twice though? Usually high vpip clowns will go into calling station mode if they want to see a showdown after you raise them on the flop. I rarely see them donk turn after being raised on the flop when they have air. I'm pretty sure he can beat your 3 here and will call you if you raise again. Just let it go. Hand 3, you could check fold. How often does he defend against 3-bets? Personally, if he's that tight, I'd bet/fold like 40-45 on flop, or if he just calls, reevalute on the turn to see if you can 2-barrel. That'd also leave you with about a potsized bet on the turn. All of this comes with the caveat that you see like 10x the hands I do.
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Oct 29, 2008 00:07
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Disclaimer: niklarse is a break even poker player. All thoughts within are niklarse's own internal thought process used here to assist his learning and for no other purpose. Hand analysis is not to be used in real money games. niklarse is not liable for monetary losses. ISO AQo preflop all day. post flop is standard multiway. If he's retarded enough to check minraise 2 people on the flop I would probably call down a blank turn and river. I think that when he bets the turn into you after flop action he most likely has 66 or 2prs. AK 3bet pot: Did he call 3bets light HU? What's his fold to 3bet at 6m so far? If it's 70+ I would likely turbo c/f. Below CRAI. Preflop I'd either limp or fold with the 35dd. As played giving up turn. Yeah punish limpers etc etc but I think this is just too light, especially when he's gonna donk into you with 94o, not being the check folding type. For someone like you described I am isoing a tighter range and limping behind a lot of lovely pairs and low scs. You can always bloat the pot after the flop anyway if you feel like it as you can see from his play.
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Oct 29, 2008 00:14
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http://weaktight.com/484599 How's my line against a 23/18/4 behind me and a 32/19/1 infront?
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Oct 30, 2008 05:19
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niknik posted:http://weaktight.com/484599 Flop bet sucks multiway, turn check sucks after playing the flop that way, river is a giant what the gently caress where I have no idea what you're doing and I doubt its good.
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Oct 30, 2008 06:24
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I definitely like a bet on the turn once you bet the flop. Bunch of hands pick up outs etc, etc. I think you have the best hand here a ton. River is I dunno, are you doing this for value? I guess you must be... In that case I don't really like it I would just bet/fold it myself. On the flop I think it's a good board to continue on so maybe c/r'ing is good, it's a somewhat drawy board but you should get pretty good credit for having a ton of monsters in your range and even if called you have a lot of turns that improve your hand.
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Oct 30, 2008 06:30
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The river is a bluff and I expect them to fold the 2nd nut straight a ton and the nut straight enough as well. Looking at both their lines they can never be full here, that is why I shoved. Also why would the flop bet suck? I have overs and a gutty yo. niknik fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Oct 30, 2008 |
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Oct 30, 2008 07:09
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Flop bet sucks because they won't any pairs, and will fold most random junk. You're pretty much allowing them to play perfectly. People call too loose here and you're relying on these guys playing like nits. If you need to make a move and you think the pfr cbets too much, check-raise him, he'll rarely 3bet with a pair or even a set so you'll probably see a turn. The river raise sucks because no one bet/folds for these odds. They're getting a great price, and your hand looks like trips to me maybe, but could really be anything. You're saying that they're never full, but are you ever full here as well? Your line just looks so weird they'll probably call with anything that beats you (at least, one of them well). It seems like you want to see the games in a certain way, and want to believe that there's some kind of respect thing going, when in reality most will probably scratch their heads and just click the call button vs all these weird moves.
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Oct 30, 2008 07:41
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niknik posted:http://weaktight.com/484599 What are you repping here? What is it supposed to look like you have with this betting line? I mean, you defend your BB with a respectable hand, you then donk the flop into the PFR. A card that should either improve you or not scare you if you are donking the flop, and you check the turn instead of betting again? I know if I was in their shoes, I'm thinking random 8 or 9 at this point who hesitated when the overcard came and it's still 3-way on the turn. Anything better than that just keeps donking away regardless of turn card. Then the river comes pairing the board, and you wait for the PFR to bet and you check/raise all in? gently caress, nik, I would call you just to see what you are doing it with (and probably accidentally be ahead as well). I can't see ANYTHING ahead of you folding out there. Maybe they think you fired flop with bottom pair and tripped river, but I doubt it. Also, you are never, ever making a straight fold here, besides which I doubt the PFR has that. I think the worst hand the PFR is vbetting the river with here is TT/JJ, that's all that bets here that you are ahead of. Everything else beats you and is calling you. How often is a 23/18/4 betting air at this river at 6-max and making it look like a vbet? Teppec fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Oct 30, 2008 |
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Oct 30, 2008 16:19
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Yeah reading through the hand again I agree it makes no sense, though I thought it was genius at the time. My thought process on the river was "OMG none of them can have a set, maybe they will fold if I bet a lot of money because I look super strong shoving 100bb into 2 people. Who ever bluffs here!?". When I posted it I even thought I had top pair + gutty on the flop for some reason and I also forgot I donked the flop before I reread the hand. lol. Don't play tired.
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Oct 30, 2008 17:08
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so one had a set then?
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Oct 31, 2008 01:03
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*** RIVER *** [5s 9h 8c Qc] [5h] SB checks Hero has 15 seconds left to act Hero checks CO has 15 seconds left to act CO bets $40 SB has 15 seconds left to act SB calls $40 Hero has 15 seconds left to act Hero has requested TIME Hero raises to $255, and is all in CO adds $59 CO folds SB has 15 seconds left to act SB has requested TIME SB: god thats a good play SB calls $215 *** SHOW DOWN *** Hero shows [Jd Qd] two pair, Queens and Fives SB shows [Jc Ts] a straight, Queen high SB wins the pot ($605) with a straight, Queen high Hero adds $200
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Oct 31, 2008 01:09
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lol @ SBs play
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Oct 31, 2008 01:25
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niknik posted:*** RIVER *** [5s 9h 8c Qc] [5h] I told you you couldn't make a straight fold :p I can see him taking that line with a straight and just saying 'oh poo poo' when the board pairs. I'm betting he was going to check/shove the turn and was surprised when everyone checked behind. See though? He thought for sure you filled up, and he STILL called.
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Oct 31, 2008 02:02
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SB has 15 seconds left to act SB has requested TIME SB: god thats a good play SB calls $215 stare at this for a long time
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Oct 31, 2008 03:59
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Teppec posted:See though? He thought for sure you filled up, and he STILL called. maybe he's just congratulating himself on taking the line that got him maximum value
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Oct 31, 2008 04:29
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?3391841 So I'm not sure if I actually did anything good here or this was a monumental gently caress up and somehow I ended up on the right side of the pot. Basically here's my thoughts: I'd seen LuckyLass bluff at multiway pots a couple of times lately (I'd only been at the table for maybe 30 or 40 hands), so I called the flop with the intention of floating him and taking it away on the turn. But he didn't check the turn, and raised instead...so I figured to go through with my plan and reraise, but he still called (then I just thought "gently caress this hand, I'm done."). But then the ace fell on the river and he checked, so I figured he was just calling along with me with Q7,K7, or something along those lines trying to beat out my high cards. So I bluffed at the ace, and he folded. I won, but I'm not sure if I played it right. Comments? Edit: Also, http://www.pokerhand.org/?3391924 Call on the river here? My only justification was that every single draw missed. (Also if I played the hand retardedly bad anywhere else, please tell me). Elemennop fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Nov 1, 2008 |
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Nov 1, 2008 07:28
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Elemennop posted:http://www.pokerhand.org/?3391841 Hand 1 is a complete case of playing the board and player. Given your stated reads, it looks ok. Probably a bit too elaborate for NL25 though, and not really worth the risk in the long run at those stakes. The problem with floating laggy players in multiway pots like that is that it IS multiway. It's very likely to hit someone. I'm pretty sure this person had some piece of the flop and you bet them off of it with the perfect bluff river card. Hand 2 is perfect. The only thing I might have done differently is bet a little more on the turn in case they are extremely draw heavy. Diamond draw with 6 for example. I like the river check call. If you bet, only better is calling, and they will most likely raise you. The only way to get more value is for them to bet. Obviously, you are sometimes crushed here. But generally your 99 will be good.
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Nov 1, 2008 09:50
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?3393614 I'm not sure what is correct for me to do on the end here and should I have taken a different betting line prior to that? It's on cake, so no hud, but at the time I had villain pegged as very loose passive preflop while being rather agro post flop. Liked to donk out into raisers, would stick around with the smallest piece of the board and push it even when the table was full, etc. The problem for me was how connected the board got. I am pretty sure I am best, but we were both deep enough that I wasn't sure a raise would be correct, because what do I do if he jams? Obviously I'm not folding, but I wasn't sure if just calling or raising on the end here is right. I.E. what line is getting me maximum value. Edit: Adding a couple of other hands. No reads, full ring, easy fold I am guessing. http://www.pokerhand.org/?3393660 Third hand at table, do I keep firing away? I have zero information here and am worried about better kings. http://www.pokerhand.org/?3393680 One last hand. Another one with minimal information. I'm new to the table (less than 20 hands) and villain has a loose feel to him but that's it. What's my turn response to the c/raise? http://www.pokerhand.org/?3393729 Teppec fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 1, 2008 |
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Nov 1, 2008 21:17
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1. bet flop 2. raise flop bigger, turn is an awkward spot to raise since you are pretty much minraising so you are letting him call with his 8s 3. nah dude firing a third barrel here into an unraised pot is pretty bad, i think you should also check the turn since its pretty dry 4. raise or fold preflop, by limping he could have any hand so he his range is 100% of hands from total air to the nuts. id prob call turn and evaluate river
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Nov 1, 2008 22:19
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1: Why did you check the flop in position with top2? Should be happy getting it in on the flop vs said villain. The check is really atrocious as there are tons of hands he will come along with as well as tons of hands he will semibluff raise with like 30% equity against you when you get AI. You even crush a few hands he will CR for straight value. As played I would just prolly just call river as I don't think there's value in a raise on that board. 2: PF raise should be to 4. Treat the flop minibet as a check and raise it to whatever betsize you were going to make. I probably don't fold river as any villain that takes such a tard line you likely have significant tard equity against. Also the turn raise is tiny.. 3: I'm definitely raising this against limpers even out of the blinds PF at 6-max...not sure about FR. Think river is a bet/fold as there shouldn't be better kings in their range having limped. 4: His raise is small so I think you have to call turn and most likely c/f river. Don't really know enough about FR to say whether PF is bad or not.
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Nov 1, 2008 22:42
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On hand 2 I think I fold river with no reads but I agree with niknik on everything else. You really need to raise that donk bet on the flop, and I wouldn't worry too much about scaring away hands like 4x or 8x because you are just not getting much value from them anyways unless the villain is completely retarded. River is a little tough because a lot of draws missed but also villains line is completely in line with having an 8, except for the PF minraise which is kinda weird it makes me think he won't have many in his range. He basically has to have a busted FD here for you to win unless he just plays really weird because potting the river into you with a king is something I would just never expect to see. Also in general, microstakes fish + bet pot button on the river usually means a big hand. On the 89s hand it is really important that you stop limping hands like that and low pocket pairs too if you do. I know this is FR so it is a little different and you might not actually be tipping your hand strength to these players, but when a player like yourself who generally has an idea about what he's doing and normally doesn't limp much (I am assuming you do this), when you limp you are going to get poo poo on by any decent player because your range is nearly always SCs, small PPs, maybe so Axs stuff. I know you are a somewhat aggro player before the flop so I am assuming this is a type of range you might limp because I see it all the time at 6max against players who are almost decent at poker, but they still have this habit of limping these hands that want to get multiway action and they don't realize that they are being exploited because of it.
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Nov 2, 2008 02:48
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Live hand from Mohegan $1/$2 Just sat down maybe 10 mins before this hand so I've got pretty minimal reads. Table is almost broken, down to 5 handed now. I'm CO with about $425 Button has around 1.2k, SB has 300ish, BB has like 6 or 8k. It's tough to tell, but it's a whole god drat lot of red chips with a full stack of greens and two blacks that I can see. UTG has around 200. UTG limps. I look down at TT I raise to $25. Button calls, SB calls, BB raises to 72, UTG folds. I call. At this point I think I'm likely behind but I feel like should I hit a ten I'll double, if not triple up easily. Button calls, SB calls. Flop comes JJ8 rainbow. Checks to me. I consider taking a stab at the pot, but because I can't really bet less than 100 and that will leave less than a half of a pot sized bet in my stack, I check. Button checks. Turn blank(something like an off suit 2 or 3) I think. Honestly I just know that I had pretty much given up on the hand unless a T fell. It may have been a queen, but I'm fairly certain it was a blank. SB checks BB bets 100 I fold. The way the action went I felt like BB was attempting to c/r the flop after hitting trips. If not, the widest I can see that PF raise followed by a check happening with is 88+, AJs+. Of the pocket pairs I'm only beating 99 and while I'm beating AQs+, I need one of two cards for me to play the river with any confidence. I'm pretty much shove or fold on this turn bet and I just didn't feel comfortable playing for my stack with tens. I'm still not sure if this came down to a "scared money" decision(I was getting ready to leave for the night and not too keen on the idea of swinging from up 125ish up to 300 down for the night) or if I played this right. TheSleeper fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Nov 2, 2008 |
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Nov 2, 2008 10:24
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| # ? May 26, 2024 10:41 |
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TheSleeper posted:Live Action I've heard this before about preflop raising but I personally do not have any live casino experience. CO raise to $25 at 1/2 with one limper seems a bit steep, but it's sort of standard to overraise because of all the fish right? Looking at this hand and seeing you make a large CO raise and you get button and SB calling, and BB, who has a mountain of chips so is obviously seeing some action, makes a big 3-bet, my first instinct is that he's stealing because button and SB look like dead money after both flatting your raise, and that maybe he thought you were weak because of how big your initial raise is. I think that's a glorious flop for you. You've got $350ish back after the raise and pot is $290ish, what did you see that made you think that jamming the flop is bad? There is such a small range of hands ahead of you vs the probable 3-bet range of BB. A guy with 3-4 thousand BB is definitely 3-betting light, I don't care how good he's running. Live reads matter, and maybe you saw something there in the way they made their plays, but I think a flop jam is perfectly fine here. Your hand is very strong on this board. Edit: Looking over it again, was that a standard preflop raise for you? The more I look at it the more it screams marginal 'I don't want to see a flop' small/middle pair that's trying to avoid heavy action. Would you raise the same with QQ+, AQs+? Teppec fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Nov 2, 2008 |
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Nov 2, 2008 16:04
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