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seniorservice posted:btw what did he end up having KTo
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Dec 4, 2008 02:40
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Since I'm not playing this month, I'm going to post some hands from last month that I didn't know what to do or just did the wrong thing. http://www.pokerhand.org/?3536248 We are 200bb deep, villain is 22/18 AF 2.5 3bet% 9 and we have played no pots prior. My flop 3bet gives my hand away as definitely having a queen, so it makes it confusing, with his stats you'd expect AQ, and JJ to 3bet pre, I guess he flats QJs and Q10s from the blinds. Any thoughts on how I played it, seems kind of standard but I don't know how light people are stacking off 200bb at this level.
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Dec 4, 2008 02:49
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M E A T Y posted:i know you said hes passive but is he flatting with qq/kk? with your reads, looks like a pretty clear bet/fold on the river. even if no full house is really likely, a super passive player shoving this river screams JT Results: He had 99 for quads. Ouch.. During the hand I convinced myself he had AQ/KQ or AKdd. Clearly I need to plug that hole. I figured (obv incorrectly) that passive to the point of his previous two hands put him on any half decent cards, and figured AQ/KQ/AKdd was much more likely than K9/KK/QQ/JT. In retrospect, my thought process should have been: "He's passive as gently caress with monsters" instead of "He's passive as gently caress with any 2 cards." BigHead fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Dec 4, 2008 |
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Dec 4, 2008 04:19
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Biggy: That is a funny spot, it is pretty tough. Do you have a big enough hand sample that his 3betting % is accurate? With a 9% 3bet stat that is accurate he should be 3betting JJ and AQ a good amount of the time, but you have to notice that you are UTG here and depending on how he views you (what were your stats?) he can definitely be flatting AQ and maybe JJ as well. If the stat is not accurate and you think he is just a regular 50nl TAG then a lot of them don't 3bet AQ for value, and some won't 3bet JJ either. There is a pretty noticeable change in 3betting ranges from 50-100nl in my experiences. I really don't know what to do here, but his hand really doesn't look like anything less than a Q, so it depends on the guy how far down in kicker he will go with this line. What do you think of his game in general? A lot of solid tags will fold QT even suited to an UTG open when they are in the SB, and the same can be said for QJ to a lesser degree. I think I am probably making my decision whether to fold or go with the hand on the turn here, and I don't think there is really a difference in call/calling and shoving so I would probably just shove if I was going with the hand. Against some guys I think I can fold the turn, with others I will shove. The looser he is with Qxs type hands and the more he over values hands the more inclined I am to get it in. So I think it's pretty close, not sure which way I would go against an unknown but I would definitely get 100bb's in. Are you just not playing this month so you can focus on plugging leaks and getting better? If so I am not sure if that is the best strategy, maybe just move down and play considerably less. Just making a suggestion because I don't know if taking a month off will be great for your game.
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Dec 4, 2008 04:42
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Interesting hand from last weekend: -------------------------------------- NL2000 Limped preflop, with 5 players, I complete SB with KJo. Pot: $140, FLOP: 9 T Q (rainbow) I check, BB checks, LAG EP bets $120; huge donk calls (late EP / early MP), unknown calls, I raise to $420, everyone calls. Pot: $1920 Turn 9 T Q *Q* (two to a flush) I check, LAG EP checks, huge donk bets $500 with $600 behind, unknown folds, LAG EP has $1500 behind. (I cover both of them) I ?!?!? -------------------------------------- Was my check here bad? Good? Also - what do you do having checked, and not having checked, what do you do in the various situations that could occur and how much would you bet? Squibz fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Dec 4, 2008 |
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Dec 4, 2008 05:07
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I would shove. If they have a boat for some reason and didn't reraise a set or two pair on the flop because they're bizarre live players then so be it. There are just so many cards that are going to either make you barf or kill your action on the river I think you should just go ahead and put it in now and hope to get called by JQ/KQ/passively played AQ.
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Dec 4, 2008 05:20
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What do you think of my reraise size? It's just that with 3 callers it's really hard not to put someone on two pair, and QT/Q9 are in there a lot in this sort of limped pot.
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Dec 4, 2008 05:50
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I think on the flop you should have raised more to like $600 for the same reason, that there are so many cards that will make you barf or make them stop giving you action or both.
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Dec 4, 2008 06:32
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?3537648 No real read on the opponent, had only played a few hands with him. Shove, fold or call? I'm still not entirely sure I did the right thing here. If I shove, how likely is it this player would call with just a queen? I had a hard time putting this player on a range, at least something narrow enough to feel confident about what to do. I shoved, villain called w/ Q7o
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Dec 4, 2008 09:10
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http://weaktight.com/557714 Villian is a 16/13/3, set of aces slowplaying here? http://weaktight.com/557716 Villian is a 12.5/9/1.29, bad spot for a value bet?
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Dec 4, 2008 11:43
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souLjah posted:http://weaktight.com/557714 I doubt anyone would slowplay a set of aces to the river on that board, especially if theyre a TAG. He might be betting QQ or TT for value here or some hand that he three bet light like KJ. Your odds are so good that you might as well call anyway because it is possible he has Queens given that line (its more likely than a set of aces anyway). quote:http://weaktight.com/557716 Based on his stats, yeah. but it depends on your table image and read on the player. Do you do a lot of value betting? I'd check behind against a player like that. If he likes to check raise the river a lot, I'd also be checking behind. basically the only hands he's calling with are like K9 and maybe J9 unless he's really loose (he isn't) so from the stats I'd just check. seniorservice fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Dec 4, 2008 |
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Dec 4, 2008 13:19
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seniorservice posted:I doubt anyone would slowplay a set of aces to the river on that board, especially if theyre a TAG. He might be betting QQ or TT for value here or some hand that he three bet light like KJ. Your odds are so good that you might as well call anyway because it is possible he has Queens given that line (its more likely than a set of aces anyway). souljah, what are the names of the villains? ive been splashing around in 100 fr trying to make 10k so that could help with the hh. anyway, in full ring i dont think qq jj or tt is ever 4betting preflop as the utg raiser, nor is he 4 betting light because a) he is oop b) you have shown immense strength by 3betting the utg raiser. i'd probably fold.
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Dec 4, 2008 21:02
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bbc what it dew posted:souljah, what are the names of the villains? ive been splashing around in 100 fr trying to make 10k so that could help with the hh. Villian in KK hand was rabscott, Villian in A9 hand was James7386...any info? seniorservice posted:I doubt anyone would slowplay a set of aces to the river on that board, especially if theyre a TAG. He might be betting QQ or TT for value here or some hand that he three bet light like KJ. Your odds are so good that you might as well call anyway because it is possible he has Queens given that line (its more likely than a set of aces anyway). As bbc said, I don't think villian is 4betting there with QQ JJ TT, etc. What range of hands will he raise then 4bet me with? AA KK AK? Unless he is a complete tard which he is not by his stats then thats the only range I can think of. Him checking the turn to c/r me ok, but since I showed slowing down on the turn, checking the river to c/r me when I checked behind on the turn? I don't value bet too much that he could check the turn confidently. This is my first session playing on FTP at nl100, always played on nl100 on cake. Also I flopped a set like 10 times last night being the PFR, cbet flop, 1 caller auto folds all 10 times. gg variance souLjah fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 5, 2008 |
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Dec 5, 2008 00:44
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bbc what it dew posted:souljah, what are the names of the villains? ive been splashing around in 100 fr trying to make 10k so that could help with the hh. You're probably right, but a slowplayed set of aces still doesn't make sense. AK however does, which might be what he has and would explain checking it down to the river out of a fear of a set of 9's or Jacks. I think he has to bet the turn if he has a set of aces. I'd be surprised if he wasn't beat, but some players do go a little crazy with QQ and your odds are so good that it might be worth a call just in case (it is a pretty weak river bet). I probably just play way too much 6max and my POV is skewed though =/
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Dec 5, 2008 01:05
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http://cakepoker.com/en/HandHistory/Default.aspx?Hand=xcPEwcTFxsbEwMTExMTFwIjDzcDHwMc%3d Ok the guy had been pretty lose with his raises. Rereaising my raises to steal pots and the like. Should I have seen that? I really thought he was just AK and thinking he was well in front. Should I even have called at all? edit - happened again literally just as I posted this. Same thing, different person except this guy raises every pot he plays in. Mr Right fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Dec 5, 2008 |
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Dec 5, 2008 01:19
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Mr Right posted:http://cakepoker.com/en/HandHistory/Default.aspx?Hand=xcPEwcTFxsbEwMTExMTFwIjDzcDHwMc%3d its fine are you following br management though? it seems like you are pretty new to the game and may be playing underrolled.
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Dec 5, 2008 02:16
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Mr Right posted:http://cakepoker.com/en/HandHistory/Default.aspx?Hand=xcPEwcTFxsbEwMTExMTFwIjDzcDHwMc%3d Folding here is criminal. cooler, move on.
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Dec 5, 2008 02:21
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bbc what it dew posted:its fine I was/am underrolled and I shouldn't have been there (had $340). The players/flop was over 60% and when I sat down I was the only person who had actually bought in for $100 though which is why I chose it. As you can see that changed within 20 minutes and despite being at $130 I was soon rebuying.
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Dec 5, 2008 03:00
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quote:PokerStars Game #22633676973: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/12/05 0:02:28 ET Table 'Lina V' 6-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: invisable09 ($1.27 in chips) Seat 2: Pis.Pshan3 ($4.95 in chips) Seat 3: dunny96us ($1 in chips) Seat 4: Brinks ($1.07 in chips) Seat 5: lussebulle ($2.82 in chips) Seat 6: torrenteria ($7.15 in chips) Any ideas on how I should have played this better? I think I should have shoved earlier, on the flop or just folded outright. I'm obviously new at all this, so if you can explain everything that'd be great.
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Dec 5, 2008 06:11
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Mr.Brinks posted:Any ideas on how I should have played this better? I think I should have shoved earlier, on the flop or just folded outright. I'm obviously new at all this, so if you can explain everything that'd be great. Preflop: Problem 1: You should almost never raise the minimum. Problem 2: You should rarely play Q8 in the first position. Problem 3: You should almost never play any weak hand as the first person to act. Problem 4: You should certainly never call Q8 if reraised. After the flop: Problem 1: Generally, if you are pretty sure you are not ahead (or pretty sure you can't bluff them out), you shouldn't lead as the first to act. On the flop you have a Q-high (better known as nothing). With a flush draw, it's good to see cheap cards. By betting, you are putting value into a pot you are almost certainly behind. It would be ok to check, and then call a small bet (if someone bet like $0.20) and see if your heart comes. Remember, with the raise pre-flop and the other caller, someone is bound to have a king. In every situation, always think to yourself "What do these other guys have, how I would play it if I were them, and how should I react?" Problem 2: Generally, if someone raises you, someone re-raises that guy, and the first guy re-re-raises, you should definitely know you are way way way behind. Your best-case scenario here is that nobody has A  xProblem 3: Generally, if you are going to bet, you may as well bet more than $0.15 on the flop. There are three people in the pot, which means there are $0.36. Generally, a bet of somewhere between half the pot and the full pot is recommended. So anywhere between $0.18 and $0.36. That being said, once you bet $0.15 you only have $0.35 left so you may as well get it in and hope for the best. I kept saying "Generally" and "almost never" in this post. Those are caveats based on your skill and knowledge of the other players. A beginner should try to adhere to very standard poker - which 0% of this hand was - until they've mastered the basics. There are plenty of very good books for beginners over in the book review thread, including Harrington on Hold'Em. I recommend you spend the $8 or whatever on Amazon and read through that. Edit: You may say to yourself "Well it's only a dollar what the hell," but remember this is where you build the experience to reach the higher levels of play. BigHead fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Dec 5, 2008 |
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Dec 5, 2008 06:30
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Hand #1705011710000005: Pebble Beach (6-Max) 11710 Seat 4: john*** (27.28 in chips) Seat 5: Teppec (96.05 in chips) Seat 6: jay5*** (55.80 in chips) Seat 7: yahe*** (48.25 in chips) Seat 8: TheV*** (52.00 in chips) Seat 9: GOG8*** (19.40 in chips) jay5***: posts small blind $0.25 yahe***: posts big blind $0.50 GOG8***: posts dead blind $0.75 Dealt to Teppec [ A  2 ]TheV***: folds GOG8***: checks john***: folds Teppec: raises to $2.75 jay5***: raises to $5 yahe***: folds GOG8***: folds Teppec: calls @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ K A 2 ]jay5***: bets $11.25 Teppec: ? Not much information at the time other than villain liked to flat alot of flops and min 3-bet several times from the blinds against me and others. I think a raise is best, but am not sure about betsizing or the value of flatting (although I have been advised and now agree that flatting is not good. Any broadway or diamond makes me puke) I am having issues with my betsizing and know it is something I need to work on. Thoughts? Edit: Couple of other hands Hand #1705011711000024: Pebble Beach (6-Max) 11711 Seat 2: Babo*** (23.95 in chips) Seat 4: Stor*** (29.50 in chips) Seat 5: Teppec (81.30 in chips) Seat 6: dona*** (45.90 in chips) Seat 10: redi*** (73.45 in chips) Stor***: posts small blind $0.25 Teppec: posts big blind $0.50 Dealt to Teppec [ 3 A ]dona***: folds redi***: folds Stor***: raises to $1 Teppec: raises to $4 Stor***: calls @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ A 5 4 ]Stor***: bets $8 Teppec ? Villain is very very loose the few hands I've seen him. I'd guess at least 50 vpip. I am pretty sure as short as he is, shipping is a no brainer here. However, I was more wondering about BvB. How many of you like 3-betting over a minraise like that with a suited ace against a high vpip villain? Hand #1704011711000511: Pebble Beach (6-Max) 11711 Seat 1: Lilm*** (65.45 in chips) Seat 2: hell*** (21.90 in chips) Seat 3: Boot*** (47.25 in chips) Seat 4: drrt*** (49.05 in chips) Seat 5: Teppec (86.20 in chips) Seat 6: Fish*** (47.75 in chips) drrt***: posts small blind $0.25 Teppec: posts big blind $0.50 hell***: posts big blind $0.50 Dealt to Teppec [ T 6 ]Fish***: folds Lilm***: calls hell***: checks Boot***: calls drrt***: folds Teppec: checks @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ K  6 6 ]Teppec ? I am always curious as to people who advocate leading vs a c/raise here when it's a family pot. I am guessing most would say lead is better because people give you less credit, but I am always curious. I need to remember to mark more hands where I am a bit clueless or not sure about betsizing and what not. Teppec fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Dec 5, 2008 |
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Dec 5, 2008 08:23
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I think 25 is the right size for a raise. Any less and you might as well just call, any more and you might as well just shove, because already he'll down to 25$ in a 60$ pot if he decides to flat you here.
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Dec 5, 2008 09:04
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Is this a standard fold here? I know there's some dead money in the pot, but I don't want to get in a raising war w/AKoff OOP 125BB deep, and calling just seems like a spew since I'm going to brick on 2/3 flops. No reads first shot at 1/2.
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Dec 5, 2008 10:05
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Spring St posted:Is this a standard fold here? I know there's some dead money in the pot, but I don't want to get in a raising war w/AKoff OOP 125BB deep, and calling just seems like a spew since I'm going to brick on 2/3 flops. I don't know about standard, but I don't think I like it. Villain could be easily isolating against the incredibly small short stack. I probably cold 4-bet to something like 70-75ish. With no other information about the button, I almost certainly 4-bet here preparing to call if he 5-bet shoves and shoving any flop if he just flats the 4-bet for some ungodly reason. However, this is a little outside of my stake level, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, 70-75ish because if he does somehow flat, (I am positive shortie calls regardless here), you'll have almost exactly a PSB left back. Edit: Looking again, I missed the other short stack flatting. I am always raising this spot when the button 3-bets unless I know button is the nittiest of nitty nits, and even then I probably still raise. There is going to be some dead money out there, pick it up or prepare to flip for stacks. Teppec fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Dec 5, 2008 |
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Dec 5, 2008 10:13
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http://weaktight.com/560680 Villian is a 37/23/2.2 , he was the UTG+1 raiser, can we credit him here for a big hand? or some type of draw/multi draw/top pair souLjah fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Dec 5, 2008 |
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Dec 5, 2008 12:12
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souLjah posted:http://weaktight.com/560680 In a 3bet pot with TPTK versus someone who is both aggressive and stupid (going by his stats), I think folding here is a bad plan.
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Dec 5, 2008 13:21
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This is a monster against a guy like this. I probably burn something down if he flips over a set, but whatever, more than likely he's got Axs and just valuetowned the poo poo out of himself. I approve Ranma's Message, just get it in. Also, I love my dogs, but god does it make me cranky when they wake me up 4 hours after the LAST time they've been out just to go pee. Haven't they heard humans need 8-10 loving hours? I don't sleep 16 hours a day bitch! Although, some days I certainly do try. Teppec fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Dec 5, 2008 |
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Dec 5, 2008 15:20
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BigHead posted:Preflop: Awesome dude, thanks so much. I'm just glad after reading that over, it makes sense.
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Dec 5, 2008 16:34
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Teppec posted:
Hand 2 I'd like the raise a lot more if villain were deeper stacked, also no reason to "turn your hand into a bluff" against a player this loose after he's sort of shown strength, just call and use your position to outplay him postflop. I think any two offsuit broadways would be a better 3bet than A3s in this spot. Hand 3 Gotta lead 100% in the limped pot at NL50. Not even worth risking getting checked back when there are so many hands to get value from. I also think a check raise from the big blind might actually jar some idiot into questioning what your hand is instead of thinking I have a King (or two clubs) I call multiple streets.
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Dec 5, 2008 19:57
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Ranma4703 posted:In a 3bet pot with TPTK versus someone who is both aggressive and stupid (going by his stats), I think folding here is a bad plan. The more I look it at I agree, I just been running bad lately in 3bet pots I guess and wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake. Tons of guys flopping monsters lol. 88 calls a 28bb 3bet and flops a boat, 66 calling a big 3bet and flopping a set and so on. 
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Dec 5, 2008 21:25
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souLjah posted:The more I look it at I agree, I just been running bad lately in 3bet pots I guess and wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake. Tons of guys flopping monsters lol. 88 calls a 28bb 3bet and flops a boat, 66 calling a big 3bet and flopping a set and so on. Didn't you start doing this same thing like 2-3 months ago when you downswonged some? Relax brother, it'll flip the other way.
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Dec 5, 2008 22:02
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Teppec posted:Didn't you start doing this same thing like 2-3 months ago when you downswonged some? Relax brother, it'll flip the other way. Well, it won't if he folds monsters because he's scared.
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Dec 5, 2008 23:47
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http://weaktight.com/563007 The button is a good regular TAG who opens the button 45% of the time. With shorter stacks I think I just shove it but with our deeper stacks is a call better then a 3-bet?
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Dec 6, 2008 00:28
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Ranma4703 posted:Well, it won't if he folds monsters because he's scared. That's kind of what I meant, just relax and trust yourself.
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Dec 6, 2008 00:50
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Meep posted:http://weaktight.com/563007 If he opens that much, why not consider 3-betting pre? Also, I might prefer donking that flop instead of c/raising. I would rather bet/3bet and possibly fold if he 4-bets/shoves instead of c/raising and being in a spot of flatting/4-betting while out of position so deep. I mean, when he 3-bets, you are in a position of calling 34 with 115 in the pot already. I dunno, this is a little bit above my stakes, but I don't like the check/raise here because of how deep you are. Normally, like you said, it's fine. You just shove over his 3-bet. But here, I think bet/3bet is better then c/raise and flat or fold.
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Dec 6, 2008 01:03
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Teppec posted:Didn't you start doing this same thing like 2-3 months ago when you downswonged some? Relax brother, it'll flip the other way. Yea...ive been waiting for the upswing from that downswong that lasted like 2 months lol...but yea...i know it will come around....just rather sooner than later  Ranma4703 posted:Well, it won't if he folds monsters because he's scared. Yup, I haven't been folding so I wanted to make sure I wasn't making some mistake. Guy had A9 for the record. gg 2pair
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Dec 6, 2008 01:28
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Teppec posted:If he opens that much, why not consider 3-betting pre? On the flop yeah I like the donk/3-bet line better then my c/r. I considered it at the time but thought I would get more value letting him c-bet the flop since he was aggressive and usually doesn't have the ace. The c/r left me in way too awkward a spot though. I need to play more deep stack poker, seems like lately everyones a short stack. Results: I 4-bet, he pushed, I wondered how I got myself into this and called, he showed AKcc having me completely crushed.
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Dec 6, 2008 02:00
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Hey Spring St welcome to pitr, I recognize your sn from Cake I think we played some at 50nl (I am AA88x). You seemed like a pretty good player, from what I remember we got into some pretty interesting spots. I wanted to add something to the AK hand you posted though. Teppec posted:Villain could be easily isolating against the incredibly small short stack. I probably cold 4-bet to something like 70-75ish. I think your reasoning is a little off here Tep. When villain repops the shorty, he almost certainly is not doing it light, because he is well aware that the short stack is probably shipping any two once he raises. That doesn't exactly mean we have an easy decision with AK, because it is still probably ahead of villains range. So I don't really know if you were thinking villain had a loose range here, because you are right that villain is isolating the short stack - but it is for value not just to rape him in position after the flop or whatever. So it is still a pretty villain dependent spot but I am going to try and get it in here a lot of the time, and the PF 3bettor would have to be pretty tight for me to consider folding.
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Dec 6, 2008 04:30
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ZeroStar posted:Hey Spring St welcome to pitr, I recognize your sn from Cake I think we played some at 50nl (I am AA88x). You seemed like a pretty good player, from what I remember we got into some pretty interesting spots. I wanted to add something to the AK hand you posted though. I didn't mean his range is loose or that it's light, but it can certainly be behind AK, and 4-betting there represents alot of strength BECAUSE of the shortstacks. Shorties you are not worried about, but deep villain will have to think long and hard about getting it in with many hands. Of course, if he ships, you probably vomit and call and cheer at the chop in this case, but the difference in his 3-betting range vs a 5-bet ship range is very wide here. I think it's pretty apparent I hate flatting or folding :x I might not be right, but in this spot I've got a pretty big hand against a button raise that is isolating and I have a reasonable chance of being ahead of him, or flipping for stacks. Isn't it said that AK's strength is in seeing five cards? Welp, lets 4-bet and get ready to see five cards.
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Dec 6, 2008 08:28
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| # ? May 27, 2024 01:55 |
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http://www.pokerhand.org/?3546774 I actually had some very specific notes regarding this villain and how he played big pairs vs AK/AQ. I was prepared to get it in, obviously, on any flop without AKQ on it. I assume most people hate this flat preflop, but all I could think of as I flatted was 'AK misses 2/3rds of it's flops', for serious. I am guessing if this is what I put him on pre, I should have just shipped then anyway. However, how much should I be trusting notes versus situations like this where there is a raise, 3-bet, and a 4-bet from the blinds? http://www.pokerhand.org/?3546787 I asked in IRC about this hand, because betsizing is something I am trying to somewhat focus on. Eratik brought up a good point about raising the flop. I've got a good bluff catcher hand with a good draw. Couple of things come to mind though. I am not likely to get 3-bet on this flop by anything below top set and AQ, but there are a LOT of hands that come along. Also, I find I generally prefer to have the initiative and I wanted to take it away from him. Anyone else like/dislike a flop raise here? Turn comes, obvious check behind since he flatted my flop raise. When he checks the river as well, I start trying to figure out value because he almost never has the flush here, and I beat everything else. Pot is 42 on the river and I am figuring him for some kind of two pair. I went with $25, but given the action and the suspected strength of his hand, should I be going for more or less here? http://www.pokerhand.org/?3546816 I liked the flop for me here, given that at this point I had tagged villain as a very poor LAG who pushed unmade hands harder than made hands. I didn't instacall/shove turn, but it was close, and as soon as he bet I was pretty sure I was good here. Thoughts? I'm think the turn shove makes no sense but maybe I am missing something. http://www.pokerhand.org/?3546849 Not much information on villain other than he seems semi decent. Is there ever value with raising this river against his turn donk and river lead? Last hand and my favorite of the night. http://www.pokerhand.org/?3546852 Who likes/hates my shove on the river? Given action, what does it look like I am repping versus villains likely holdings? I really liked this shove even as I was doing it, everything just seemed to line up for the whole hand.
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Dec 6, 2008 09:11
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