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Piggypoop posted:Thats it. TapTheForwardAssist posted:Realizing I can't get real results until my air filter comes next week, once it does come how do I gently caress with the idle screw and fuel screw? The fuel screw is a "keep it running" thing, not idle adjust. The Idle adjust is what you should mess with. Even without an air filter, you shouldn't need to mess with the fuel screw at all.
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Jan 25, 2009 19:29
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Nerobro posted:The fuel screw is a "keep it running" thing, not idle adjust. The Idle adjust is what you should mess with. Even without an air filter, you shouldn't need to mess with the fuel screw at all. So do I put the idle screw all the way in or all the way out for starters, and then change it until I get results I like? Should I prop up the back tire, start up the engine, and then just mess with the idle screw until I can get "engine running, wheel not spinning"? Since the previous guy didn't know jack, and I might not have put the fuel screw back in the exact right turn when I reassembled the carb, how will I know if the fuel screw isn't set right, aside from it just not running? Any chance I'm giving it too much fuel, it's running too rich, and that's why it won't idle?
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Jan 25, 2009 19:43
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well, not all the way out. "all the way out" will cause an air leak. far enough out that the carb slide closes completely. Setting idle is done by starting the bike, and then using the throttle to keep the bike running. you then adjust the idle screw until you can let go of the throttle. Edit: 41 MPH That's what I needed to say. Nerobro fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jan 26, 2009 |
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Jan 26, 2009 15:23
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Nerobro posted:well, not all the way out. "all the way out" will cause an air leak. far enough out that the carb slide closes completely. Setting idle is done by starting the bike, and then using the throttle to keep the bike running. you then adjust the idle screw until you can let go of the throttle. Huh, I was kind of envisioning it backwards: jacking the rear tire off the deck, letting it spin, and then changing the screw until the engine was still running but tire not spinning. In any case, I should be able to figure it out tonight, since my new (to me) air filter came today. Can fix the brake up, but still can't quite figure out how to attach the decompress switch to the handlebars. I feel like a moron, because it's only two little brackets, but I just can't figure out how they go together with the cable so as to pull the cable when I hit the lever... And I need that decompression switch, since that's the only way to turn off the engine currently. Not sure if the key-cylinder and the kill switch are busted, or if the previous owner deliberately re-wired around them.
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Jan 27, 2009 05:04
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:And I need that decompression switch, since that's the only way to turn off the engine currently. Not sure if the key-cylinder and the kill switch are busted, or if the previous owner deliberately re-wired around them. I don't know, but mine had the same problem. The good? thing about mine, though, was it wouldn't idle, so I never had to worry about killing it.
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Jan 27, 2009 05:11
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Bean_ posted:I don't know, but mine had the same problem. The good? thing about mine, though, was it wouldn't idle, so I never had to worry about killing it. I was about to say "huh, that's how mine almost killed me". Then I realized you meant the opposite: yours, when given no throttle, died. Mine, whether given throttle or no, would continually try to drive forward. The engine got very unhappy and oil-burny when I tried to hold it still. Whelp, time to go out and work on the bike, and also my spare parts for the Nighthawk I dropped came in, so I can replace the left pegs and broken clutch. I'm so, so glad I took the "noobs buy a $1000 bike that's already been dropped a bunch" advice. gently caress neutral, it's like cops: only there when you don't want it. Like when starting on a hill...
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Jan 27, 2009 05:27
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UPDATE: So I put the air filter in, and it totally changes everything. Now the bike does indeed rev higher when I twist the throttle, and drop down when I let it go. It also runs very consistently... a bit too consistently. Before I'd get some bursts of speed around 15-20mph (regardless of what I was doing with the throttle), but now it just growls along at around 10mph with the engine at a low purr. If I gun the throttle there'll be a brief second or two while it starts to kick into that high "WWII aircraft" moped whine, but then it'll drop down to almost as low as it runs with the throttle off. Before it'd hit 15-20mph with the engine buzzing like mad on even the slightest downhill, but was a lot more sluggish going uphill. Now it's at that low purr no matter where it's going. It still has no idle between "not running" and "moving forward", but sometime when the neighborhood isn't sleeping I'll try to get it running and prop it up on the kickstand so I can mess with the idle screw. Any idea why the RPMs are running so low even with throttle? It seems like it almost wants to break out into speed when I gun it, but never quite makes it. It's almost like having an automatic that's stuck in 1st gear, and just won't quite rev high enough to kick into the next.
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Jan 27, 2009 08:05
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Err.... Maybe that's where your CVT decides that your engine is making the most torque? You're still accelerating, right?
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Jan 27, 2009 09:15
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Dont put the rear wheel in the air to adjust idle. Chances are you'll never get it to idle low enough that the rear wheel wont turn. It always will, due to the oil. Just adjust it on the ground, and get it to the point where it stops pulling.
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Jan 27, 2009 16:48
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Simkin posted:Err.... Maybe that's where your CVT decides that your engine is making the most torque? You're still accelerating, right? Not particularly. There'll be a tiny change in speed during that moment where it's starting to make the "moped whine", but then it'll just stay around 10mph. Seriously, the engine sounds like an idling moped, not a cruising moped. It's just a low throaty mumble instead of that high whine.
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Jan 27, 2009 18:26
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UPDATE: So I took it out today, and hadn't really made any changes since last night. Now it'll kick into the "moped whine" pretty evenly, and I can do around 15-16mph on any reasonable slope, and managed to hit 19mph on a downhill by tucking. Considering it's a PA50M and only supposed to make 20mph, I figure I'm getting pretty close. It does have occasional lapses down into that low throaty growl, but flicking the throttle a few times generally clears that up. However, there's still the problem that the throttle doesn't really do much. It goes 15mph-ish even with the throttle completely closed. Opening the throttle to max will somewhat increase the pitch of the motor (higher RPMs?) but doesn't have a big effect on speed. The only way, for example, that I can go down to 5mph is by jamming on the brakes and holding them, regardless of where the throttle is. Tried messing with the idle screw, but the throttle swingarm doesn't always/easily close enough to even touch the screw. The swingarm seemed to close fine when I had the carb off and was cleaning it (sprang back to bump the idle screw each time, etc), and I used cable lube all over the throttle cable (though it has some cracks/punctures in it). Not totally clear why the throttle just won't turn off. Any chance I just have the cable secured too tight, or just need a new cable? I figure maybe just the engine needed to work the cobwebs out, as it runs decently well now, and starts without too much trouble. A bit of frantic pedaling on the cold start and it catches. Now I just need to keep improving the engine's performance (clean the carb over again? Clean some other part?) and figure out what the hell is the deal with the throttle having only one position: 15mph.
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Jan 27, 2009 22:14
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edit: ugh nevermind, I dont know the difference between a moped or scooter.
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Jan 29, 2009 05:35
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Most likely, your throttle cable is misadjusted. Fix that. :-)
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Jan 29, 2009 07:49
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Nerobro posted:Most likely, your throttle cable is misadjusted. Fix that. :-) Adjusted the throttle cable today, and now there is a big difference between throttle closed and full-open, at least in engine noise. However, it still goes 10mph even with throttle closed, and 15mph with it open. With full open it'll just start to kick into a whine, but won't maintain it today, so I can't hit 19mph like a couple days ago. I tried backing the idle screw out almost all the way, but it still won't drop to idle. I should just take it out entirely, put plenty of slack in the throttle connection at the swingarm, and see what happens. If the throttle swingarm is completely closed against the carb body (idle screw completely removed) and it's still running at 10mph closed, then it's just fundamentally getting too much fuel/air, right? Would I start adjusting the fuel screw after that, or what? I also need to get an inline petcock. The seller had one he promised me, but the douchebag has been dodging my calls. I have an inline fuel filter, but any advice as to what petcock to get, or just get whatever fits the fuel-line?
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Jan 29, 2009 09:48
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Remember what I said about the idle screw? if you take it out, you'll have an air leak. That will make the motor run faster. :-) put the screw back in. You may have other air leaks to contend with as well.
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Jan 29, 2009 15:25
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Dont just go taking things out of the carb to see what happens. Running a 2-stroke with a serious air leak like you'd see with no idle screw is a good recipe for a hole in the piston. I'm with Nerobro in that you have an air leak somewhere else. Most likely where the carb connects to the manifold, or where the manifold connects to the cylinder.
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Jan 29, 2009 16:08
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Nerobro posted:Remember what I said about the idle screw? if you take it out, you'll have an air leak. That will make the motor run faster. :-) put the screw back in. You may have other air leaks to contend with as well. Wait, we're talking the "idle stop screw", the one with the spring on it, not the "idle jet", right? I thought the idle stop screw doesn't even penetrate down into the body of the carb, I thought all it does is poke through a solid fin and nudge the throttle swingarm open a little bit so that the throttle butterfly will be more open. Am I totally seeing it wrong here? Are you wanting me to mess with the idle jet instead of the idle stop screw? About other air leaks: when I take the carb off soon, I'll check the various o-rings for visible damage and whatnot. Anything in particular to look for, or should it be abundantly obvious if its damaged? Sorry for the barage of questions, but it really has helped get this moped from a non-starter up to something that actually cruises around pretty decently. Just a little more troubleshooting and it'll probably be quite decent.
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Jan 29, 2009 18:36
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The idle stop screw is what we thought we were talking about. And the "idle jet" you're talking about, is that the mixture screw? Air leaks don't have to happen at the carb. It can be the intake too, or the reed valves.
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Jan 29, 2009 19:44
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Nerobro posted:The idle stop screw is what we thought we were talking about. And the "idle jet" you're talking about, is that the mixture screw? Cool, so we're talking about "the thing that keeps the throttle swingarm ajar". I'm not 100%, but it doesn't look like it opens up to the carb at all, it looks like it just presses on the swingarm, so removing it entirely wouldn't create some hole into the carb body.  Will take a look at the intake and see if there's some grommet thing. Not sure, but it looks like the intake isn't particularly designed to be well-sealed, but will check on that. Where exactly are the "reed valves" anyway? I'm unfamiliar with that part of the bike. EDIT: Looking at the diagram, there's a part I never understood before that has a big butterfly right by the intake, and a lever on the outside, but there's no cable to the lever nor any way it looks like it's supposed to attack to anything. Is that the choke lever? Are you just supposed to hold it open with your foot or something while starting the bike? There's no lever or switch marked "choke" anywhere on the Hobbit. EDIT2: This is annoying at times, and I almost wish I'd just bought a new Sprint so parts/kits would be available, and I wouldn't be trying to troubleshoot seals and wires made before I was born. Then again, I can sell this for more than I bought it for if I get it running, and the whole point of buying a used bike was that I wanted to learn how to work on 2-strokes. So it's definitely educational.
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Jan 29, 2009 22:21
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:EDIT: Looking at the diagram, there's a part I never understood before that has a big butterfly right by the intake, and a lever on the outside, but there's no cable to the lever nor any way it looks like it's supposed to attack to anything. Is that the choke lever? Are you just supposed to hold it open with your foot or something while starting the bike? There's no lever or switch marked "choke" anywhere on the Hobbit. NUMBERS, man, which number on the diagram are you asking about?
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Jan 29, 2009 22:51
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Cool, so we're talking about "the thing that keeps the throttle swingarm ajar". I'm not 100%, but it doesn't look like it opens up to the carb at all, it looks like it just presses on the swingarm, so removing it entirely wouldn't create some hole into the carb body. 10 is the idle stop screw, and 9 is the o-ring that sits on it. Assuming that's what you're looking at, it's creating a hole into the carb body. It wouldn't have an o-ring if it weren't supposed to seal.
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Jan 29, 2009 22:55
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Awesome, a diagram. ;-) who wants to bet that taptheforwardassist has been using the choke as his idle adjust and has a wild air leak somewhere?  I'll explain the rest when I go home. Quitt'n time is here.So, I got home, and had a package waiting for me.    It's the wrong damned carb. 24mm Mikuni. Anyone want it? It's for sale.. cheap... $60. Taptheforwardassist: You need to tell us what you're adjusting. You keep talking about levers. Your carb isn't a butterfly carb. the butterfly is the choke. Your carb is a slide type carb, and there's a screw in the side, that holds the slide open. You have a diagram of the numbers, tell us what you're futzing with. Nerobro fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jan 30, 2009 |
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Jan 29, 2009 23:57
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Phat_Albert posted:NUMBERS, man, which number on the diagram are you asking about? That's the frustrating thing. This is supposedly a "Keishin Honda Moped carb", but I'm not seeing the swinging arm that the throttle cable goes into. Here's some pics of my actual moped:  The thing my finger is resting on is the big swingarm with no attached cable or point, which appears to operate a huge butterfly in the intake. Is this the choke? How are you supposed to even operate it? With your toe?  Here's the next swingarm, with the end of the throttle cable sticking out. The screw with the big brass spring is what I've been assuming is the idle screw. It doesn't appear to go down into the carb body at all, it just seems to stick through that fin to keep the throttle swingarm from closing completely against the side of the carb. There's another screw right below it, with the kind of dull flathead. I don't know quite what that screw is. Likewise, not totally sure what that thing that looks like a 3-pole electric outlet is.  Clearer overhead pic. You can clearly see that there is one big swingarm with no cable, and the smaller swingarm with the throttle cable. The screw I've been adjusting is, again, the one with the bright brass spring. Does that clear anything up at all? The above diagram doesn't quite look right, and the diagrams in the Honda manuals on MA Wiki don't go into details as to what every screw is called.
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Jan 30, 2009 06:10
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Nerobro posted:stuffff moped on a dyno! 
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Feb 1, 2009 18:12
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I know. I replied to that thread. I'm impressed that someone, anyone, managed to get their bike on a dyno. 8hp goes a long way.
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Feb 2, 2009 01:48
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You guys got any tips for changing tubes+tires? I have that on tap for tomorrow on my Tomos TTLX. Today I fixed my un-wrecked kinetic. It kept chugging out a few weeks ago, and then wouldn't run, period. Knowing it was probably a carb issue, I cleaned it. It looked good, put it all back together, and it ran like poo poo. Not knowing what else to do, I took it apart again, this time taking a closer look at the needle, I realized there was scum/gum on the needle, and that it might be impeding the movement of the float. Sure enough, after scrubbing the needle, it ran great. I then took the exhaust of the wrecked TFR (quiet) and put it on the clean TFR (with gerry-rigged lawnmower baffle/loud as could be). Runs well enough without disturbing people in a 3 mile radius to take me to class until I get the Tomos back up again going.
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Feb 21, 2009 22:25
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I didn't know we had this thread! Bean_ posted:You guys got any tips for changing tubes+tires? I have that on tap for tomorrow on my Tomos TTLX. I am thinking about getting rid of my Tomos Sprint. Its a 1994 model that I got in pretty dubious condition, and although I've gotten it working and it runs alright I'd like something newer and a little flasher. Besides camping Craigslist, any recommendations for new wheels? It would be nice if I could fit someone on the back for short (like 1-2 mile) trips - although I realise thats going to be kind of a laugh on any 50cc. My current forerunner is the Tomos Revival, which I've ridden once and seemed nice, and is actually pitched as a potential two-person ride.
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Feb 22, 2009 16:45
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When changing tires, don't be afraid to use lube. That is, a thick mix of dishwashing soap and water. Get tire iorns. Ashcans, I don't think mopeds actually have gotten any better over the years. I can't think of anything that tops a motobecane of peugeot. :-)
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Feb 22, 2009 17:17
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Okay, haven't messed with my Honda Hobbit in a bit. Long/short the thing runs, I just need to track down some issues and fine-tune so it'll idle properly. But at least I've got it from dead to 19mph, and learned a little in the process. In about two months I'm moving to DC, and hopefully taking a pretty good job. Money, at least moped-type money, won't be a huge factor, and I'd like a decent bike to tool around Alexandria on, maybe mount on the back of my car and take to nearby cities for MA meets. Should I: 1) Sell the Hobbit for what I paid ($450 or whatever). Get to DC, buy a Tomos Sprint, do the basic upgrades (exhaust or whatever) to get it to 35-40mph, and call it good. Maybe put on some club bars or something to make it a little swoopier. 2) Take the Hobbit to Austin Mopeds, say "turn this into a 40mph moped and send me the bill, then crate it and ship it to my new address in Virginia in two months." I'm very low-skill for mechanical stuff, so I'd much rather just have an expert upgrade something, and I'll just keep fueling it, clean the carb once in a while, lube the chain, etc. Is the CVT of the Hobbit so awesome that I should build off it? Or in the long run will it be nice to have a lightly tricked Tomos so I can still easily repair and service it? If a seal goes out or whatever on the Hobbit, it basically needs to be fabricated from scratch, and I don't know if there's any way to get new chain covers for the sides.
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Feb 25, 2009 05:21
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Okay, haven't messed with my Honda Hobbit in a bit. Long/short the thing runs, I just need to track down some issues and fine-tune so it'll idle properly. But at least I've got it from dead to 19mph, and learned a little in the process. out of those options, just sell the loving thing. You'd pay so much money to get that thing shipped that it'd be cheaper just to start from scratch, not even talking about what you could sell the hobbit for now. Then, you got a point about the parts availability. Its definitely going to be more of a struggle than with a tomos. While the CVT in the hobbit is nice, I honestly prefer the two speed packed in every Tomos. Personally, I'd sell now and upgrade when you move, but that's just me. I can say that out of my 82 Hobbit, two 99 Kinetic TFRs, and 2001ish Tomos that the Tomos is by far superior in EVERY way, and every cent I have spent has been well worth it. Bean_ fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Feb 25, 2009 |
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Feb 25, 2009 05:43
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Bean_ posted:I can say that out of my 82 Hobbit, two 99 Kinetic TFRs, and 2001ish Tomos that the Tomos is by far superior in EVERY way, and every cent I have spent has been well worth it. Good deal, that's kind of what I was leaning towards. I just didn't want to get a Tomos and have everyone go "holy gently caress, you gave up a CVT for that?" I like the idea of a large aftermarket and available parts, and I'm not a bike-geek enough that I need to impress other mopedists with some moped that was produced in Finland for six months only for Coast Guard use or whatever. If I can get a Sprint, make it look like the below, and get it up to 40-45mph I'll be completely satisfied: 
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Feb 25, 2009 06:05
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I'm pretty much settled on getting a Tomos Sprint over a Buddy or Zuma for my new springtime toy. If I were to put an aftermarket exhaust on is it a requirement to also put a bigger jet in the carb? Realistically, what kind of enhanced performance does a new pipe provide on its own anyway? I'm definitely noobish to performance tuning an engine and want to spend more time riding than taking apart and reassembling the thing.
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Feb 25, 2009 08:18
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OlDirtyBehrmann posted:I'm pretty much settled on getting a Tomos Sprint over a Buddy or Zuma for my new springtime toy. If I were to put an aftermarket exhaust on is it a requirement to also put a bigger jet in the carb? Realistically, what kind of enhanced performance does a new pipe provide on its own anyway? I'm definitely noobish to performance tuning an engine and want to spend more time riding than taking apart and reassembling the thing. You should change the jet to see the best performance and to keep the engine from running lean on fuel, but realistically, you don't have to upjet. Realistically, a pipe can do several things on a two stroke. The way a two stroke works, there is going to be some air-fuel mixture that escapes. An aftermarket exhaust uses an expansion chamber in order to redirect some of the lost mixture back into the cylinder for combustion.  While pipes can do this, they only work for a certain RPM range, known as the "power band". Also, while you see increased performance in this power band, you will also see a loss of performance in other bands. Typically, you'll see two types of pipes for a bike. On that will get you off the line quick with great acceleration, with a lower high end (number 1), or one that is slow off the line with a great pull and higher speeds at the high end of the spectrum. Most pipes fall somewhere in the middle. For maximized performance, you'd ideally want to do some other things in addition to the pipe, based on what your goals are. These things range from changing sprocket sizes to a new carb/jet, and other things like that. Really, you shouldn't worry about how much time you're going to be investing in this stuff. While I haven't grown the balls to increase my displacement yet (which would be a semi bit more invovled), I have upgraded my exhaust, jets, carb, and had to change tires/tubes. Most jobs take 30 minutes (or 5 in the case of the exhaust, just because I lost a screw). I changed the tubes on my tomos today, and it took about and hour->1.5 hours, but that was just because it was my first time messing around with those parts, and it took me a while to figure out how to get the wheel balanced properly. Also, if I could just recommend----Upgrade to the ST. Its nice not having to premix gas/oil (although its not a HUGE hassle), and the turn signals would be nice to have, just so other drivers (if they actually pay attention to you) don't have to guess if you want to turn or something. That safety is work $150 bucks. Bean_ fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 5, 2009 |
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Mar 5, 2009 22:57
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Nearly everything I've read suggests running premix anyway since tomos's oil injector sucks huge rear end and has a good chance of breaking without you knowing. I'll definately check out the st the next time I annoy the poo poo out of the guy at the scooter store.
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Mar 5, 2009 23:15
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OlDirtyBehrmann posted:Nearly everything I've read suggests running premix anyway since tomos's oil injector sucks huge rear end and has a good chance of breaking without you knowing. I'll definately check out the st the next time I annoy the poo poo out of the guy at the scooter store. The injection system works fine until you make an upgrade, at which point the injection system just can't keep up with the demand and shits the bed. If you plan on increasing displacement, then remove the system. Bean_ fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Mar 5, 2009 |
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Mar 5, 2009 23:19
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Bean_ posted:The injection system works fine until you make an upgrade, at which point the injection system just can't keep up with the demand and shits the bed. Does that apply to any upgrade (exhaust, jets) or just to extreme upgrades like changing displacement?
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Mar 6, 2009 01:06
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Does that apply to any upgrade (exhaust, jets) or just to extreme upgrades like changing displacement? I'll put it this way: I've been using the oil injection on my tomos since I got it 3 months ago. Its a 2001, had 1400 miles before me from the previous owner, and its fine. I have 3 other mopeds which I have to premix, and I have the gas sitting around ready to use, but I don't. I personally trust the OI system, as its done its job on my ped. The day I put my 70cc head on, though, will also be the day I take the injection system out (tomorrow if the weather is nice  ). My understanding is that the system has trouble increasing the oil release for a larger displacement, at which point you would need to increase the mixture by premixing a bit. At this point, people just decide to remove the OI and premix to what they like.To be honest, I wouldn't trust your average homer on MA (or me, either). I've always seen 4% as the recommended mixture posted on my other peds, but I've seen too many posters on MA talking about removing the OI on their Tomii, premixing at 2% and then reading two posts down about how they soft seized. In the end, you need to do what you're comfortable with. If you want to believe the 14 year olds on MA, and don't trust the OI....take it off and premix yourself. At least at that point you wouldn't be able to blame the OI. I personally believe the engineers at Tomos did their jobs right for the stock parts. Once I start removing those parts, though, I wouldn't dare to assume their stock lube system could accommodate my changes. Bean_ fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Mar 6, 2009 |
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Mar 6, 2009 03:44
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Well, that's the funny thing. As engines increse displacement, they seem to require less oil. Oil requirements seem to hinge on rpm, not CC's. Oil Injection rocks. It is the way to go if you've got it. Take everything, absolutely everything, you find on MA with the whole shaker of salt.
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Mar 6, 2009 11:13
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Okay. I threw a kit. Now I have an air leak. I torqued the head to feel, and tested it to see if it was running like it should. It wasn't, so I went back and tightened the screws some more. I stripped one. I started the bike up to see if it had gotten tight enough, but it hadn't. The bike would want to start, but couldn't. Giving it a bit of throttle, she fired up, but wouldn't VAROOM away with ANY power, so I figured this is where the leak comes into play. I had a friend hold the throttle back and keep it running while I sprayed the head with carb cleaner.....It looks as though the leak is coming from the corner of the head where the stripped nuts hails from, too. Soooooooooooo.... I think this means I have two options: I can go get another screw of the same type and try to torque the hell out of that one on top of the other, to get the pressure I need, or I could JB weld the corner with the leak. EDIT: I went and got new nuts for the bolts, as the nuts were what stripped. No difference. Made new gaskets.... All that did was move the air leak from one side of the block to the exact other corner, no fix....... I'm at a loss....I don't know what to do now. Bean_ fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Mar 7, 2009 |
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Mar 6, 2009 18:57
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Wow, so last night my wife was asking me what needs to be done on the Puch before she can ride it this spring. She mentioned that she wanted to be able to take it to the next town over, but the road connecting the two is 45mph. Then she asked the question that every married moped owner is dying to hear: "Is there anything you can do to it to make it faster?" Wife-sanctioned kit throwing shall begin.
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Mar 6, 2009 20:09
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