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Z3n posted:Ok, so taking it by baby steps: I guess a 250 is easier but only one person out of my 20 riding buddies have had this happen but that was 5 years ago and he had already been riding for a couple years. Don't newbies go into corners really slow anyway? If you're scared of your current speed don't you just slow down on the throttle? These situations and ideas seem good on paper, but of everyone I've talked to and ridden with, the power of your bike has little to no impact on learning. If anything, it's more about the weight and style of the bike. A 350lb bike will be much better than a 420lb bike. Charles 1998 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jun 5, 2009 |
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Jun 5, 2009 20:11
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Jack the Smack posted:I was saving up to get a GSXR 750 and almost had enough, when my dad said he would give me the money to buy a new bike that day if it were the one he saw on craigslist (me not knowing much about bikes decided to go along since it looked like the bike I wanted. Also since it was 1000ccs instead of 750, MORE CCs MEANS MORE POWER!!!!). Are you saying that you think your SV1000 is a dualsport?
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Jun 5, 2009 20:15
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Jack the Smack posted:What situation would this cause a newbie to mess up? When as a newbie have you gone full throttle for 10 seconds and the whole time going "Oh poo poo how do I slow down?!" The first ride I took down the highway on my bike I overshot the speed limit by about 40mph. I ended up slowly backing off the throttle and giving it some heavy front brake to slow it down before I got a ticket. Ways a newbie could get hurt: 1. Butt pain of massive speeding ticket 2. Oh poo poo too fast, best be shutting her down. Slams throttle shut and goes flying over handle bars. 3. oh poo poo too fast, best be shutting her down. Slams on rear brake, lowsides going 100+
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Jun 5, 2009 20:17
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Krakkles posted:Are you saying that you think your SV1000 is a dualsport? Sport Touring. Touring bike and Sport bike in one, dual purpose.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:18
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Jack the Smack posted:I was saving up to get a GSXR 750 and almost had enough, when my dad said he would give me the money to buy a new bike that day if it were the one he saw on craigslist (me not knowing much about bikes decided to go along since it looked like the bike I wanted. Also since it was 1000ccs instead of 750, MORE CCs MEANS MORE POWER!!!!). This is either a really elaborate troll thats actually working pretty well, or you're just the dumbest person in this forum. I'm betting on the latter. quote:I was convinced not to get a sport bike, but a dual sport bike by my parents (A GSXR 750 was my first choice) and so I dropped $5700 and now I regret it every day. So people should never disuade others from getting the bike they want because babby didnt get his 750 gixxer? Krakkles posted:Are you saying that you think your SV1000 is a dualsport? Ha! Despite the obviousness of the SV in his avatar, I though he was talking about a Vstrom 1000. This makes it even worse. Jack the Smack posted:Since then, I've learned this bike is not an I4 You should never give any advice about bikes to anyone ever. Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jun 5, 2009 |
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Jun 5, 2009 20:18
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Jack the Smack posted:Sport Touring. Touring bike and Sport bike in one, dual purpose. That's not what a dualsport is.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:20
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Jack the Smack posted:What situation would this cause a newbie to mess up? When as a newbie have you gone full throttle for 10 seconds and the whole time going "Oh poo poo how do I slow down?!" A youtube search will pretty easily find newbies pulling accidental wheelies and not knowing what to do. Edit: Or even way less elaborate, 10 seconds of full throttle, seeing a deer or car pulling out, and grabbing the front brake WAY too hard. Too much brake is another easy to find crash video. Mr. Eric Praline fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 5, 2009 |
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Jun 5, 2009 20:22
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dietcokefiend posted:The first ride I took down the highway on my bike I overshot the speed limit by about 40mph. I ended up slowly backing off the throttle and giving it some heavy front brake to slow it down before I got a ticket. Ways a newbie could get hurt: So as a newbie you never checked your speed at all times? Even if this did happen, which I highly doubt did: 1: Yea, that sucks. I would hate for this to happen: 2: I4 sport bikes have very little engine braking, I've dropped the throttle on a CBR 600 while red lining in first gear and it definitely does not send you "flying over the handle bars.", not even close to a tank slapper. 3:I've slammed the rear brake on plenty of bikes and they definitely don't lowside.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:24
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Jack the Smack posted:3:I've slammed the rear brake on plenty of bikes and they definitely don't lowside. Rear brakes tend to provide not all that much braking right up until the lockup point, then.......they lock up. Which newbies usually hold too long, till it turns into a tail slide, then they panic and let go, which turns into a highside. Lowsides are pretty rare from that, but the resulting highsides are even worse. All you're doing here is revealing how much you dont really know, just quit already.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:26
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When did an SV1000 become a dual sport?
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Jun 5, 2009 20:26
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chryst posted:A youtube search will pretty easily find newbies pulling accidental wheelies and not knowing what to do. Cool, videos on youtube. How many friends do you know that this has happened to and was attributed to a too powerful of a bike?
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Jun 5, 2009 20:27
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Jack the Smack posted:Sport bikes aren't death machines, they just attract people who like to go fast and drive crazy, and those people are what attribute higher accident rates. People on scooters are just as likely to be hit and run over by cars and trucks, the real killers of motorcyclists. Every person I know who has fallen on a bike and not been hit by another vehicle has had zero injuries except road rash. You always give such horrible advice on this front, I don't know why you don't just stop. Every single time, someone says "No, JTS. A 600cc supersport is not ideal," and yet every time you parade this "powerful bikes don't kill people, dumb people kill people" thing out, and it's just like talking to a wall. Can people start on a 600cc supersport? Yes. Can people start on a litrebike? Certainly. Do beginning riders always have the ability to judge what they should be doing on these machines when they lack experience? Not generally. There are exceptions to rules, but you need to stop treating everybody as though they're it.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:29
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Jack the Smack posted:Cool, videos on youtube. How many friends do you know that this has happened to and was attributed to a too powerful of a bike? Is it really that hard to imagine a new rider getting in over their head with a powerful bike, then grabbing a handful of brake? I've seen it happen, about 20 feet behind my bike. The result was a concussion and broken clavacle. Thanks for playing though.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:29
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Jack the Smack posted:I guess a 250 is easier but only one person out of my 20 riding buddies have had this happen but that was 5 years ago and he had already been riding for a couple years. Don't newbies go into corners really slow anyway? If you're scared of your current speed don't you just slow down on the throttle? These situations and ideas seem good on paper, but of everyone I've talked to and ridden with, the power of your bike has little to no impact on learning. If anything, it's more about the weight and style of the bike. A 350lb bike will be much better than a 420lb bike. These are the simple facts of the matter: The majority of single bike crashes are from people coming in too hot. It is easier to come in too hot on a faster bike than a slower one. Newbies make all kinds of mistakes that will lead to them not being able to negotiate a corner...getting overwhelmed by acceleration, loving up shifting, loving up braking, tensing up on the bars, etc. They're noobs, they don't know what the gently caress they're doing, and even if they think they know what the gently caress they're doing or have some idea of what the right thing is to do, they still rarely manage to actually pull it off, because they're too busy being terrified to actually do the right thing, regardless of how simple pulling a lever gently to slow down is. I bet your friends have some fantastic stories about how they were just coming in so fast and the tires just wouldn't stick, man, gently caress! They're full of poo poo. They were doing well under the limit of the bike, they just don't have a loving clue how to ride. I've seen guys that stayed off the throttle so long that they'd drag the loving fairings from the suspension bottoming out. They'd swear they were totally going so fast, but they're off the gas, the bikes in the wrong place, their body is in the wrong place, and they think because they're dragging hard parts, they're at some sort of limit. They're idiots, and they're usually the ones recommending 600s for new riders. Don't be that guy. Learn to ride, go to the track, and try not to get yourself and other riders killed giving stupid advice.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:30
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Jack the Smack posted:Cool, videos on youtube. How many friends do you know that this has happened to and was attributed to a too powerful of a bike? You really think anecdotal evidence is more valuable than video?
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Jun 5, 2009 20:30
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Jack the Smack posted:Cool, videos on youtube. How many friends do you know that this has happened to and was attributed to a too powerful of a bike? I've seen it happen in front of me more times than I can count. I stopped going on group rides because I got tired of picking up and fixing crashed bikes. Nothing kills a good ride like someone dumping their poo poo and/or getting hurt.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:33
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Jack the Smack posted:Cool, videos on youtube. How many friends do you know that this has happened to and was attributed to a too powerful of a bike? At this point though, I'm going to just say bravo on effective and quality trolling.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:34
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chryst posted:At this point though, I'm going to just say bravo on effective and quality trolling. Its a tough call at this point
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Jun 5, 2009 20:37
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chryst posted:Maybe the situation during a shift where the newbie is trying to speed shift, pulls the throttle open too early, dumps the clutch too fast, ends up with a wheel in the air, panics, snaps the throttle closed, (or worse, nails the brakes) and goes down? One I've seen a few times around here is new riders shifting to a lower gear before a corner, letting out the clutch, getting intense engine braking because they chose too low a gear, and then in a panic gunning the accelerator to speed up and going all wobbly into their turn. On a smaller bike this looks hilarious. Only a larger bike it would probably be a really lovely accident.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:38
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Jack the Smack posted:So as a newbie you never checked your speed at all times? Even if this did happen, which I highly doubt did: Actually yea, when I first started riding my perception of speed was completely skewed. At first I was thinking I was going way too fast when I was actually going like 45 instead of 60, and then I started going too fast. Look down, holy poo poo I am going 90 in a 60 zone. This is with a late 80's 600cc, which has half the HP of a modern 600cc bike. 2. Someone please post the quote about the R6 owner who almost flew off their bike going up the onramp.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:42
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8ender posted:One I've seen a few times around here is new riders shifting to a lower gear before a corner, letting out the clutch, getting intense engine braking because they chose too low a gear, and then in a panic gunning the accelerator to speed up and going all wobbly into their turn. I did this. I did it on my way to the SoCal maintenance day we had a few months ago, actually. Making a right turn, I went for first, should've stayed in second. Second half of the mistake was turning in before the clutch was out :/ It worked out ok, because I've been riding on dirt for years, and I just ended up backing it in rather spectacularly (two guys in a suburban that were in the left turn lane I was sliding toward were actually cheering), but if I'd been on a more powerful bike, going faster, or less experienced with maintaining balance on two wheels, I more than likely would've just hit the Suburban or dumped the bike. Edit for dietcokefiend: 4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:Here is a great little story of mine, which happened completely from starting on a bike to powerful for my own good. Krakkles fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jun 5, 2009 |
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Jun 5, 2009 20:44
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^^^^ This is precisely the kind of thing I was getting at. Also, I called this in advance. +1 point to me. Doctor Zero posted:And before the inevitable I LEARNED ON A DUCATI SUPERSPORT AND I'M FINE posts, I'll point out that powerful bikes are a whole lot less forgiving than bikes more befitting a new rider. All it takes is a mistake on the throttle and the bike can become a rocket that a newbie won't know how to control.
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Jun 5, 2009 20:59
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Krakkles posted:I did this. I did it on my way to the SoCal maintenance day we had a few months ago, actually. Making a right turn, I went for first, should've stayed in second. Second half of the mistake was turning in before the clutch was out :/ I did something similar for a different reason. My throttle cable snapped last weekend and I ended up limping home using the push cable and some zip ties. Problem is that something slipped as I got into town and my throttle was stuck open at around 6000 rpms. I was also trying to outrun a thunderstorm. On the final right turn onto my street I did my usual shift from 4th to 2nd to make the corner and completely forgot about the throttle being stuck on. Let out the clutch before the turn expecting engine braking but instead the rear tire broke loose. I had the good sense to abandon the corner and did a heroic burnout past the corner and down the street before I pulled in the clutch and limped the bike home.
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Jun 5, 2009 21:12
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Jack the Smack posted:Since then, I've learned this bike is not an I4 and after riding all my friends bikes I hate almost every aspect that comes with a V-twin (vibrations, sound, engine braking). By no means the stupidest thing you've said in this thread, I did find this the most offensive. Sport twins rule and you've got no class t 
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Jun 5, 2009 21:26
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8ender posted:I had the good sense to abandon the corner and did a heroic burnout past the corner and down the street before I pulled in the clutch and limped the bike home. Man, you only did a heroic burnout? If you'd had a bigger displacement bike, you could have done the heroic burnout wheelie combination for a bonus multiplier. I bet you only got like 200 points for that poo poo.
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Jun 5, 2009 21:26
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Twenty-Seven posted:By no means the stupidest thing you've said in this thread, I did find this the most offensive. I love it that the engines supposedly have more torque than an I4 like everyone says, but then when you check the gear ratios you realize that I4s can go 90 in first and a V-twin with the same displacement goes 70 in first, and that if you bumped the I4 down or the V-twin up the V-twin would have way less torque in comparison.
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Jun 5, 2009 22:08
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Jack the Smack posted:If he's not set on looks, he could use an epoxy paste made for plastics instead of velcro. That will hold up much better against winds. I'll put he epoxy idea to him when I see him tonight. He's about 5' 10" give or take. He wears a full face helmet and jacket, yes. For reference, he had a CBR 600 way back in the day when it was called the Hurricane. From what he's told me, the screen on that was perfect for him and the wind went right over him. One thing he keeps saying is that if the aerodynamics on his hurricane were that good, why wouldn't the busa's be also. It might just be a matter of comparison or personal taste that he wants a taller screen. Granted he hasn't had a biek since his hurricane 20 odd years ago.
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Jun 5, 2009 22:15
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Jack the Smack posted:I love it that the engines supposedly have more torque than an I4 like everyone says, but then when you check the gear ratios you realize that I4s can go 90 in first and a V-twin with the same displacement goes 70 in first, and that if you bumped the I4 down or the V-twin up the V-twin would have way less torque in comparison.  Uh ... do you understand anything about how the world works?
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Jun 5, 2009 22:16
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Jack the Smack posted:I love it that the engines supposedly have more torque than an I4 like everyone says, but then when you check the gear ratios you realize that I4s can go 90 in first and a V-twin with the same displacement goes 70 in first, and that if you bumped the I4 down or the V-twin up the V-twin would have way less torque in comparison. Seriously? Gearing changes the RPM to speed ratio, not the amount of torque that an engine puts out.
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Jun 5, 2009 22:29
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Methusulah posted:I'll put he epoxy idea to him when I see him tonight. He's about 5' 10" give or take. He wears a full face helmet and jacket, yes. For reference, he had a CBR 600 way back in the day when it was called the Hurricane. From what he's told me, the screen on that was perfect for him and the wind went right over him. One thing he keeps saying is that if the aerodynamics on his hurricane were that good, why wouldn't the busa's be also. It might just be a matter of comparison or personal taste that he wants a taller screen. Granted he hasn't had a biek since his hurricane 20 odd years ago. The busa is designed so that you look through the windshield. 
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Jun 5, 2009 22:34
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Z3n posted:Seriously? Yes it does...you get more torque if you increase the RPM to speed ratio so you have less speed. I've experienced it myself. A ZX6-R with a top speed in first of around 45 but it has huge amounts of torque and wheelies up no problem.
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Jun 5, 2009 22:36
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Jack the Smack posted:Yes it does...you get more torque if you increase the RPM to speed ratio so you have less speed. So the answer to my earlier question is ... no, you do not understand anything about how the world works.
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Jun 5, 2009 22:41
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Krakkles posted:So the answer to my earlier question is ... no, you do not understand anything about how the world works. So then why does a bike wheelie up easier when in first gear than in second? Magics?
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Jun 5, 2009 22:43
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Jack the Smack posted:Yes it does...you get more torque if you increase the RPM to speed ratio so you have less speed. Gearing still doesn't change how much torque an engine generates. It can lower where in the rev range you make that torque, increasing acceleration at the cost of top speed, but it doesn't change engine output in any way. See, Jack, this is your problem: You've got a small amount of experience but not enough overall knowledge to really understand how things work. You make big, sweeping assumptions about things, and most of the time you're just wrong. You really need to sit down with some books and spend some time learning about how to actually ride and how motorcycles work before you get yourself hurt with those assumptions. You've been lucky so far...
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Jun 5, 2009 22:45
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I hate my bike.
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Jun 5, 2009 23:04
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Jack the Smack posted:I hate my bike. Why?
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Jun 5, 2009 23:09
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Jack the Smack posted:I hate my bike. Get rid of it and never ride again. Problems solved for everyone! 
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Jun 5, 2009 23:19
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Jack the Smack posted:I hate my bike. I have ridden your bike. The SV1000 is an excellent bike in all respects. It's got all the gear from a mid 90's supersport, with an engine, and gear ratios that are sane. What's not to like? I can't believe I have to make this point again... You don't hear from the people who failed to learn on 100hp+ bikes for one simple reason. THEY AREN'T RIDING ANYMORE. They aren't on forums, they don't show up to bike shows, they don't associate with other riders. Either because they're completely done with it, or they're dead. The SV1000 is a sportbike. Yes, it's a 10 year old sportbike, but that's what it is. It's not a sport-tourer, it's not a dual-sport. Strangely enough there is a dual-sport with the SV1000 motor in it, the V-Strom 1000. Dual sport bikes are dirt oriented streetbikes, or street legal dirtbikes. If it's got clipons, it's not a dual-sport.
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Jun 5, 2009 23:21
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Jack the Smack posted:So then why does a bike wheelie up easier when in first gear than in second? Magics?  Science!
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Jun 5, 2009 23:30
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blugu64 posted:
 It's quite amusing how yesterday's sportbikes become today's Sport Tourers. ZX-6E? Won AMA with miguel duhamal in 93. Now it's a sport touring bike! Modern ZZR600? 2001 ZX-6R! SV1000? Detuned TL1000R, now it's a S/T bike! 
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Jun 5, 2009 23:36
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