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You jerks also made me post a recruitment for some Dark Sun PbP in the main board, I hope you're all happy.
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Sep 11, 2009 02:26
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How could someone be happy about encouraging PbP?
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Sep 11, 2009 02:28
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ritorix posted:Athas was a pretty harsh landscape. gently caress That's some freaky poo poo right there.
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Sep 11, 2009 03:54
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My only concern is how Dark Sun is supposed to interact with some of the core design decisions of 4e, most notably "rolling up four PCs in one session because they keep getting murdered by bullshit is not fun". Not saying it's not an awesome setting, but it's rather transparently built on a more adversarial foundation than most of what 4e is used to. It looks to me like Wizards is in the unenviable position of having to chose between remaining true to the setting's tone and history or adhering to their core philosophies.
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Sep 11, 2009 04:08
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There's no reason they can't do both: I could very easily see them including a "Hard Mode" or something. Write the book as normal for a 4e publication and then fill it out with sidebars that detail what and how to change if you want the Authentic Athas Axperience. TM
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Sep 11, 2009 04:17
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tendrilsfor20 posted:
I'm guessing the RAW will drop this in 4th. Fake Edit: ^^^This is an excellent idea. I hope they do.
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Sep 11, 2009 05:06
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It's completely random. You might get "Speak with Otters and Otterkin" or "Fly at your speed" or "Psychic Dragon Breath"
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DalaranJ posted:I'm guessing the RAW will drop this in 4th.
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Sep 11, 2009 08:35
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TheArchimage posted:My only concern is how Dark Sun is supposed to interact with some of the core design decisions of 4e, most notably "rolling up four PCs in one session because they keep getting murdered by bullshit is not fun". Not saying it's not an awesome setting, but it's rather transparently built on a more adversarial foundation than most of what 4e is used to. It looks to me like Wizards is in the unenviable position of having to chose between remaining true to the setting's tone and history or adhering to their core philosophies. On the other hand, 1st level PCs in this edition are much tougher than they ever were at 3rd level in 2e. Off the top of my head, you could get much the same effect by jacking up the difficulty of encounters by a couple of levels (though this would depend on the toughness of the native creatures), adding in the "inferior materials" rules and (possibly) limiting the availability of heavy armour. I'd also like to see some rules for starvation/dehydration.
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Sep 11, 2009 08:43
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Ticking Timebomb posted:On the other hand, 1st level PCs in this edition are much tougher than they ever were at 3rd level in 2e. Well 4e uses the "Rule of 3" related to starvation/thirst/suffocating, namely at the end of a noted time period (three weeks/three days/three minutes) you have to start making Endurance checks (which increase in DC), success gets you another day/day/round, failure loses a healing surge which cannot be regained until you eat a meal, drink or gain access to air respectively, if you have no healing surges left you take damage equal to your level at each failed check.
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Sep 11, 2009 11:00
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Ticking Timebomb posted:On the other hand, 1st level PCs in this edition are much tougher than they ever were at 3rd level in 2e. I dont know about that, a 2nd edition Dark Sun character was pretty drat beefy compared with the other settings at the time. 2e could be min-maxed heavily, and once the 24-strength half giant gladiators with multi-specialization and armor optimization showed up to the party, wild talents in tow, combat was pretty much over. Inferior weapon and armor materials barely made a dent in that power curve, and that only at the lower levels. A -1 to hit and damage for using a bone item wasnt much of an obstacle when you had over 20 str. Casters had their advantages too, I've been putting one together for the DS pbp. I had forgotten how overpowered some of the 2e psionics stuff was. Strong characters, compared with the vanilla setting, were part of the DS appeal. I imagine they will preserve that through a .campaign file for the Character Builder that allows for higher stats or the like. The balancing side of that elevated power curve is adding difficult challenges for those beefy characters to face (and die fighting). Thats where I think 4E DS will have to do a lot of the design work. 4E already has power creep, making even-level encounters trivial compared to when 4E came out (or maybe thats just me). Hopefully 4E DS can make even the typical encounters into something more significant than just chipping away at party healing surges. Healing surge manipulation from the environment could help (dehydration, defiling, overheating). So would a revised encounter XP table, neutering the loot-centric reward tables and the Wish List concept.
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Sep 12, 2009 05:25
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ManMythLegend posted:IS HIS BELT MADE OF ROCK? E: TG Discussion > Belt made of rock
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Sep 12, 2009 05:48
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Tom Baxa is Dark Sun. You are hot and thirsty.
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Sep 12, 2009 06:09
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Brom > Baxa if not just for the amount of weirdness in his art. Seriously, why does no one on Athas keep their skin covered? I guess they've evolved beyond sunburns and go straight to heat stroke.
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Sep 12, 2009 06:39
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Why don't they keep their skin covered? Well, furs and leathers are loving warm. What's cloth made from? Take a moment to consider that.
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Sep 12, 2009 14:25
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Etherwind posted:Why don't they keep their skin covered? Well, furs and leathers are loving warm. That just makes me wonder why they keep their anything covered. And if there's an Enlarge Object psionic power, you certainly wouldn't.
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Sep 12, 2009 14:42
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There really ought to be more umbrellas/parasols in the art, though. Of course, now I'm picturing Mighty King Hamanu the Troll-Scorcher, the Lion-Warrior of Urik, master of the golden fields that feed the Tablelands, in his golden palace at the center of the Walled City.... wearing a seersucker suit and drinking a Lynchburg Lemonade.
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Sep 12, 2009 14:43
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You can chop open a cactus and get water out right? Oh... Terrors of the Desert posted:Spider cactus patches look like any patch of harmless cacti until a victim is showered by their needles. The victim is then dragged into the cactus, where the feeding needles make a slow feast of the hapless being.
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Sep 12, 2009 18:10
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Yeah, I remember an early 4e issue of Dragon statting out a few of the very hazardous plants for 4e. I think it had that thing, the cacti that eats you, and probably another.
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Sep 12, 2009 18:23
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somewhat off topic, but did anyone ever play the DS MMO? Fascinating article here http://www.gamasutra.com/features/19971024/index.htm but I am curious about the game's actual content. What were the end game dungeons like? Did you actually get to fight the dragons?
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Sep 13, 2009 19:03
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According to that article, they had to yank the dragon and the Nightmare Beast completely.
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Sep 13, 2009 19:23
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Etherwind posted:Why don't they keep their skin covered? Well, furs and leathers are loving warm. Take a moment to consider Bedouin and other real desert dwellers. They don't run around half naked because it's loving retarded to do so. A couple layers of gauzy hemp or cotton keeps you cooler and prevents sun stroke. It also helps you survive the sandstorm that would have otherwise skinned you alive. City dwellers, on the other hand, have the benefit of readily available shade and water, and they don't really have to worry about a sandstorm, so they can concern themselves more with fashion than practicality. Basically, your average Dark Sun outfit is about as practical and realistic as your typical chain mail bikini. quote:That just makes me wonder why they keep their anything covered. The people of Tyr at least don't really care about modesty. Other city states' citizens dress in a fashion that's appropriate to the real world culture they're cribbed from. Urikites, for example, dress like Babylonians. quote:Of course, now I'm picturing Mighty King Hamanu the Troll-Scorcher, the Lion-Warrior of Urik, master of the golden fields that feed the Tablelands, in his golden palace at the center of the Walled City.... From now on, I'm going to picture Hamanu looking like Faulkner.
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Sep 13, 2009 21:00
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PeterWeller posted:Basically, your average Dark Sun outfit is about as practical and realistic as your typical chain mail bikini. Relax, they were probably escaped slaves or something. Dark Sun does have rules for wearing metal armor in the desert and there's a non-weapon proficiency called "heat optimization" which represents how practical you are when wearing clothes in the desert.
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Sep 14, 2009 00:50
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PeterWeller posted:A couple layers of gauzy hemp or cotton keeps you cooler and prevents sun stroke.  Plants. In Dark Sun.
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Sep 14, 2009 01:26
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Etherwind posted:
There have to be some, otherwise what is everyone eating? Sand?
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Sep 14, 2009 01:29
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PeterWeller posted:From now on, I'm going to picture Hamanu looking like Faulkner. 
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Sep 14, 2009 01:29
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Neorxenawang posted:There have to be some, otherwise what is everyone eating? Sand? That's the point, though. Plant life is so scarce that they can't afford to raise crops for much else.
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Sep 14, 2009 01:31
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Etherwind posted:That's the point, though. Plant life is so scarce that they can't afford to raise crops for much else. You realize that you're being preposterous, right? Dark Sun has all these top predator, evolved for eating meat, special-diet monsters and yet there are so few plants that there are no plant fibers suitable for making clothing? There are clearly enough plants to support gigantic mammal and insect populations. Clothing is a very close third to water and food for desert survival - in fact, you can live a LOT longer in the desert without food than you can without clothes.
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Sep 14, 2009 01:53
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Phandy posted:Relax, they were probably escaped slaves or something. Dark Sun does have rules for wearing metal armor in the desert and there's a non-weapon proficiency called "heat optimization" which represents how practical you are when wearing clothes in the desert. Eh, it's not a big deal, but Etherwind doesn't understand what life in a desert entails. Etherwind posted:
Yes. Heaps of them. With the exception of Gulg (which is in the middle of a forest), the City States are surrounded by croplands. Draaj's entire economy is based on growing hemp and rice. The majority of a city's slaves are field slaves.quote:That's the point, though. Plant life is so scarce that they can't afford to raise crops for much else. It's really not. Cities like Draaj are able to grow enough crops to base their economy on exporting them. Grains and textiles form the backbone of the world's trade economy. Famines in Dark Sun don't happen because there's not enough arable land. They happen because King Kalak decides he wants his Ziggurat done now, and pulls the slaves from the fields. Sorry to be all  but did you ever actually read the source books?tendrilsfor20 posted:This is what I always pictured: Nah, that dude doesn't have a lion's head.
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Sep 14, 2009 04:04
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People on Athas have a couple more Con points that us pathetic Earthlings, so they don't give a poo poo about exposure and heat stroke.
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Sep 14, 2009 09:51
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PeterWeller posted:Sorry to be all Not all of them, I'm still reading Changeling supplements. I'm going to go ahead and admit you know better, and I was wrong. I'll shut up now.
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Sep 14, 2009 13:35
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Speaking of the source books, are they available for purchase as PDFs from somewhere? Athas.org says RPGNow should have them, but I didn't have any luck finding them there. And if I do find them, should I be aiming for the original box set's book or the revised one?
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Sep 14, 2009 17:44
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It really depends. The Wanderer's Journal (first box) spends a lot of space describing the general culture and outlook of the setting, and is actually sort of sparse when it comes to specific details. The Wanderer's Chronicle (second box) has more comprehensive overviews of the different cities (it's still pretty sparse when it comes to other locations), but it also spends a lot of space describing the new areas, which some will say are bullshit and dilute the setting. Also, it's set after the Prism Pentad, so a lot of the cities changed drastically from their original presentations. You don't need to bother with either the rulebooks. They're only necessary if you actually plan on playing a 2E game. If you're looking for other good sourcebooks, I'd suggest picking up Dune Trader. It provides piles of information on the world's economy and how people are able to transport their goods across the vast wastes. Also, Etherwind, sorry I was a dick to you.
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Sep 14, 2009 19:06
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Pfft, don't apologise to Etherwind, people will think you're soft! 
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Sep 14, 2009 19:10
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Cross postin' from the 4e thread. It's official; there will not be a new class in Dark Sun 4e, but there will be a new mechanic. (I'm guessing Defiler magic, but he says it'll "take us by surprise" so I dunno) James Wyatt posted:I suppose this is a nice way of coming full circle from the start of the interview. You should expect the unexpected! I don’t ever want the design team to fall into ruts or do things because that’s what we’ve done before. For example, when we started Dark Sun design, we had a lot of discussions about what class we should include in the book, because we had introduced a class in each of our previous two campaign setting Player’s Guides. But first we had to ask the question of whether a new class was the right thing to add to the game in Dark Sun, and ultimately we decided no. So instead, Dark Sun is going to offer an entirely new mechanic that will take you by surprise. Stay tuned! Full interview here. (Not DS related)
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Sep 15, 2009 17:36
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Evil Mastermind posted:Cross postin' from the 4e thread. It could always be Wild Talents instead of Defiling Magic, I mean Defiling magic will probably be there but it will probably be variant Arcane I guess? I mean it makes sense as a new mechanic in general, but making Wild Talents a bit more impressive might also (probably being able to use feats to make them more useful and combat-ready).
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Sep 15, 2009 17:38
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From the publishing perspective, no new class means a ton of page space in the Player's Guide for...something else. The swordmage ate up like 30 pages of the FRPG. Of course Deities will be skipped too. So they have a lot of 'extra' space to fill with DS-specific goodies. Like lots of new/modified races. Or wild talents or defiling or lots of setting-specific new gear. But none of that would be a big surprise, its all reasonably expected as part of DS. A surprise would be something like a detailed character tree system, gladiatorial rules for every class, or an expanded epic-level game for advanced beings.
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Sep 15, 2009 23:05
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From what I've seen, levels 20-30 mages get something special.
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Sep 16, 2009 00:23
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What have you seen?
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Sep 16, 2009 03:35
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bgaesop posted:What have you seen?
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Sep 16, 2009 03:44
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bgaesop posted:What have you seen? Etherwind just wants to try to get some form-cred by cockteasing us and then going 'tee hee sorry don't wanna get my friend in trouble!'
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Sep 16, 2009 04:32
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